GeForce Partner Program Impacts Consumer Choice

heatlesssun

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I haven't had a chance to see the show yet, but I would be wary of anything Linus has to say, simply because of his close ties to AIB partners, as well as nVidia themselves... But maybe I'm wrong, and Linus rips nVidia a new one, he has done it before, to Intel...

Just finished watching this. He was very circumspect and worded things carefully. And when it came to what he personally knew about GPP and any details about the agreements he was pulling a Sgt. Shultz. I think he knows a lot more than he's willing to admit but like so many others he's trying to protect himself and not get drawn into a toxic situation. While he didn't come out and say Kyle is right about it, they made sure to preface all that Kyle wrote with "allegedly", I think Linus sees it like [H] has told it. Linus, while still careful, did make several mentions of how nVidia likes to control its partners and GPP is all about control.
 
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-PK-

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Linus explained the allegations well and gives insight into how rebates and MDF, such as those used in this program, affect the industry. He used lots of legal disclaimers while fully explaining the gravity of the allegations to his viewers.
 

Stimpy88

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Just finished watching this. He was very circumspect and worded things carefully. And when it came to what he personally knew about GPP and any details about the agreements he was pulling a Sgt. Shultz. I think he knows a lot more than he's willing to admit but like so many others he's trying to protect himself and not get drawn into a toxic situation. While he didn't come out and say Kyle is right about it, they made sure to preface all that Kyle wrote with "allegedly", I think Linux sees it like [H] has told it. Linus, while still careful, did make several mentions of how nVidia likes to control its partners and GPP is all about control.

Thanks for posting that.

I had a feeling that Linus would be very cautious, as it seems to have taken him a long time to address the story broken by Kyle. That always makes me suspicious as I know that there are no real journalists doing Youtube (although many of them like to think they are!), that I know of, so I knew he was waiting until he HAD to say SOMETHING, as he has no access to anyone or anything, besides marketing reps...

It's also interesting to note that this story has had no impact whatsoever on nVidia's stock price. I guess nobody is worried about this news getting out, and expect next to no meaningful fallout, unfortunately for us consumers, and the market in general.
 

heatlesssun

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Thanks for posting that.

I had a feeling that Linus would be very cautious, as it seems to have taken him a long time to address the story broken by Kyle. That always makes me suspicious as I know that there are no real journalists doing Youtube (although many of them like to think they are!), that I know of, so I knew he was waiting until he HAD to say SOMETHING, as he has no access to anyone or anything, besides marketing reps...

It's also interesting to note that this story has had no impact whatsoever on nVidia's stock price. I guess nobody is worried about this news getting out, and expect next to no meaningful fallout, unfortunately for us consumers, and the market in general.

No disrespect to [H] but Linus is just a huge deal these days with 5.4 million YT subscribers and 100s of millions of views on his channel. Kyle said straight up that AMD floated this info out there and if I had to wager Linus must have heard something as well. Linus was very circumspect about what he had heard personally in that video so I obviously have no idea. I wish he'd be more straightforward about what he'd heard personally but I also understand why he wouldn't be.

What's starting to creep me out as much as anything about GPP is just how scared everyone is about it with the exception of Kyle, and even he's had to hold what he knows close to the vest. The level of fear GPP is creating to me is a clear indication that whatever it is, it ain't good.
 

bigdogchris

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He finally got around to it.
Yes, we've been talking about it since I posted it last night. Thanks for joining the conversation.

I think Linus was very fair in his evaluation of the situation. Considering Nvidia has been telling companies not to talk about it at all, I'm glad he covered it (*cough* Toms, Anandtech).
 
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heatlesssun

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Linus is pretty much agreeing with Kyle.
whodathunkit

Agreed, but I got the feeling he knows a lot more about this than he's willing to admit directly. Kyle deserves tremendous credit on this but he can't be the only one willing to take a hit. Kyle and [H] weren't the only folks that were informed about this and the reticence of others speaking out directly is frightening.
 
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Aireoth

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Agreed, but I got the feeling he knows a lot more about this than he's willing to admit directly. Kyle deserves tremendous credit on this but he can't be the only one willing to take a hit. Kyle and [H] weren't the only folks that were informed about this and the reticence of others speaking out directly is frightening.

It's almost as if corporations are taking over.
 

ChadD

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Just finished watching this. He was very circumspect and worded things carefully. And when it came to what he personally knew about GPP and any details about the agreements he was pulling a Sgt. Shultz. I think he knows a lot more than he's willing to admit but like so many others he's trying to protect himself and not get drawn into a toxic situation. While he didn't come out and say Kyle is right about it, they made sure to preface all that Kyle wrote with "allegedly", I think Linus sees it like [H] has told it. Linus, while still careful, did make several mentions of how nVidia likes to control its partners and GPP is all about control.

To be honest I'm surprised he was so nice in a way but not really. The open source community has battled with NV to be more open with their hardware driver code for a long time. Linus has said plenty of bad things about NV in the past. NV likes to do things their own way instead of the open way in many regards, main reason being to hold onto control of how things are implemented in software. Linux saying they like control is something he knows about very well on the software side. Still they are a partner company, they do contribute kernel code and in an overall sense are mostly a good Linux supporting company. Although their drivers are still closed they do put a lot of effort into ensuring they are well maintained and for pro applications the NV Linux drivers are in many ways better then their windows counterparts. Any kernel improvements they come up in that regard get up streamed, and they have open sourced some smaller bits of software. So its understandable I guess that Linus isn't going to come out and publicly denounce them for something that doesn't directly at least effect him and his projects. NV is perhaps slowly but still they are coming around to his way of doing things... lending his voice on this one isn't going to help the effort to pull NV into the future. lol ;)

Funny to agree with you this time Heatle. lol Ya I think Linus knows a lot more then he has saying. Like Kyle I'm sure plenty of people have talked to him about things in non official settings.
 

MaZa

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jesus this is hard to watch.

It was indeed very long winded and went off rails all the time. Although I admit I did burst out laughing at the "is nvidia trying to save us from themselves" comment. But I am glad to see Linus taking this situation seriously otherwise.
 

Jim Kim

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All of them are pointing fingers at Kyle. I know when someone is being scapegoated.
Kyle deserves tremendous credit on this but he can't be the only one willing to take a hit.
You have mentioned this like it is going to be damaging to our great leader in chief, Kyle.
If I recall, Kyle got put on Nvidias naughty list a while back. Meaning they quit sending him products to test and he has to purchase them himself.
I don't know what more they could do to him, I guess they could spray roundup on his lawn in the shape of an Nvidia logo so he has to stare at it all summer long.
Just what are you implying.
 

ChadD

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You have mentioned this like it is going to be damaging to our great leader in chief, Kyle.
If I recall, Kyle got put on Nvidias naughty list a while back. Meaning they quit sending him products to test and he has to purchase them himself.
I don't know what more they could do to him, I guess they could spray roundup on his lawn in the shape of an Nvidia logo so he has to stare at it all summer long.
Just what are you implying.

Well considering this has been the mans job for 20+ years... not getting review samples early enough to release his reviews at the same time as everyone else. Is the real damage. Buying cards sucks sure but the real harm is his reviews for NV hardware always being a week behind all the sites (his competition) willing to get on their knees and do as they are told.

In a lot of ways it echoes this program. Be a good boy and do as NV says and we'll reward you with an = playing field. If not we'll F with your lively hood. (just because he was on a naughty list for the moment hardly means he was never going to be forgiven... that seems less likely now lol)
 

Nenu

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Well considering this has been the mans job for 20+ years... not getting review samples early enough to release his reviews at the same time as everyone else. Is the real damage. Buying cards sucks sure but the real harm is his reviews for NV hardware always being a week behind all the sites (his competition) willing to get on their knees and do as they are told.

In a lot of ways it echoes this program. Be a good boy and do as NV says and we'll reward you with an = playing field. If not we'll F with your lively hood. (just because he was on a naughty list for the moment hardly means he was never going to be forgiven... that seems less likely now lol)

Kyles rep causes people to hold back purchasing until his review is complete.
When he doesnt get a review sample in good time potential customers have more chance to change their mind and initial sales are slower.
When you are in the bad books here, you arent doing it right.
 

MrXL

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First of all, kudo’s to HardOCP to break this story.

TBH, I think Linus is quite candid about nvidia. He may not have the same contacts as Kyle however given the amount of his followers he most surely has a lot of contacts in the industry.
He actually refers to this and think he says he hears a lot of what is going on.

He then portrays nvidia as the type of ‘partner’ that, when having a photo together smiling, has his foot on your toe to make sure you do as they want you to do. At least that is ‘the perception he gets a lot of the times”.

He then goes on to compare nvidia’s blogpost to the feeling you get when in Harry Potter’s movie the professor is replaced with another professor who turns out to be “an absolute monster”.
“Doesn’t this have a ‘students behave or else’ kind of vibe to it….”

Pretty sure all the above is not very complimenteus ….

Also when reading the wording of the press release you hear and see the sarcasm and cynism he feels.

Then he also gives a huge shout out to HardOCP for breaking the story.
"This looks likes something which could be real."
"I am gonna say this: I haven’t talk to anyone about this in the industry."
"I am also gonna say: I am not always 100% honest with you guys..."

Etc. etc.

To me this is one hell of a candid video about the subject and nvidia.

Anyway all is exactly as we know how nvidia operates. If they see only the tiniest opportunity to rip your arm off, they will rip both arms off.
There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that Kyle is onto something, and what he is onto is no good for anyone but nvidia themselves.
 
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Stimpy88

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nVidias stock is taking a bit of a hit today... Hard to say exactly why yet, or if it's just a short term thing...
 

10e

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One thing I'm wondering in this thread, and some of the others that I've read, is how open to interpretation is "Gaming Brand Aligned Exclusively with GeForce"?

Ie. Exclude, preclude, pretty much mean the same thing --> Exclusive, no?

Ie. "Your Gaming brand = Geforce" and Geforce="Your gaming brand" whether ROG or MSI Gaming, or Aorus etc.... Ie. for Asus it can't be RONG and ROAG, it has to be ROG = nVidia, "Pro" or "Enthusiast" = AMD/Intel, etc..


Now, if you also check, Asus has been selling ROG Pre-built PCs for some years now, possibly since 2013. What happens to these? Can they only have Geforce in them, and what kind of motherboards, etc.., or do they fall under the "re-brand category"? They're going to have Intel or AMD chips, chipsets, etc....

Now I mentioned EVGA earlier, but I took a look, and they've been marketing their E(VGA) cards as Gaming since Maxwell, and their motherboards have always been FTW, Dark, Micro, etc... so it seems that, whether official or not, EVGA has been living the GPP for some time now. K|ngpin became K|ngpin Gaming, FTW video cards became FTW Gaming, etc... I don't fault them, they are pretty much a limited vendor supplier and have great support to boot.

The PCGamesN article was funny, and even better was the ripping his butthole took in the comments section, oh tee hee. He got called a shill and "looking through rose colored glasses" haha.

Linus handled the GPP thing like a Canadian. Apologies and disclaimers up front, and a little bit of emotion peeking through progressively over the diatribe. But I think he knows more than he's willing to let on and very careful to (like Kyle) not use any specific examples other than his personal experiences in order to protect any sources he's spoken to.

Jim from AdoredTV hit them hardest, and brought up some good points, that nVidia can't get along with Apple, Samsung, Sony, Microsoft, Intel, etc... and have seen their contracts dwindle to Nintendo, and their other (somewhat indicative) policies of dictating how their GPUs are used in datacentres, etc... the 1060 3GB debacle, the stupid BS GTX 970 debacle (and lies).

So while I understand nVidia is trying to strengthen their already strong position in the "gaming" market, it seems like this is not really new with them. It just seems like they are merely making vendors go exclusive with their gaming brands to get the perks they have traditionally always received.
 

lcpiper

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.....................It's also interesting to note that this story has had no impact whatsoever on nVidia's stock price. I guess nobody is worried about this news getting out, and expect next to no meaningful fallout, unfortunately for us consumers, and the market in general.

Well no one is selling much of anything so ...... How did it go in that movie show?

"Let's see, subtract nuthing from nuthing and what do you have ?....... that's right, nuthing."

If gamers are having a hard time getting cards, then where's the down side to pissing off gamers, and why should an investor worry about it?

Investors live for two things only, this quarter, and next quarter.

This quarter is where their money is coming from, next quarter are the promises and forecasts their future investments will depend on.

Everything beyond next quarter is the distant future and doesn't rate a moments thought for most.
 

5150Joker

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Chimpee

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Both boxes still say GAMING on them clearly. I thought GPP was supposed to omit "gaming" from AIB products containing AMD chips? Guess that isn't the case here. Also, both boxes look identical apart from the AORUS branding so I'm not sure this is GPP at play here.

But it doesn't have the Aorus logo that you find in the 1070 or 1080 box, the RX580 box just says Gigabyte.
 

variant

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Looking at Gigabyte's website further, they don't seem to market any Radeon RX Vega under their Aorus brand nor are any of AMD's Vega cards listed under the gaming tab. I'll assume this isn't nefarious and it's more along the lines of "Why market something we don't have any stock of?"

You don't think it's strange they don't have any AMD graphics cards branded as AORUS, their top end gaming brand?

@GigabyteUK moved entirely to @AORUS_UK in January as well. So they only promote AORUS, which means no social media promotion for AMD Vega products, or the recent 'Gaming Box'.

https://twitter.com/gigabyteuk?lang=en

An AORUS RX 580 does/did exist. So stripping AMD graphics cards of AORUS is a recent phenomenon.

https://www.gigabyte.com/us/Graphics-Card/GV-RX580AORUS-8GD-rev-10-11#kf
 
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variant

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https://www.gigabyte.com/us/Graphics-Card/GV-RX580IXEB-8GD#kf


Looking over their website, the AMD 'Gaming Box' supports Gigabyte's AORUS Graphics Engine. The actual device might as well be called "government cheese of gaming boxes' and I wouldn't be surprised if they later decided to ship the thing in a plain brown box. Unlike the AORUS Nvidia ones, I can't find it under any category except AMD whereas you easily find the Nvidia one under AORUS as well.
 

None

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You don't think it's strange they don't have any AMD graphics cards branded as AORUS, their top end gaming brand?

@GigabyteUK moved entirely to @AORUS_UK in January as well.

https://twitter.com/gigabyteuk?lang=en

They do, my point that you've quoted was specifically about Vega, which has been notably absent from retail. What I'm saying is that it can be explained by them not getting any Vega GPUs from AMD to sell, therefore they won't market what they can't sell.
https://www.gigabyte.com/Graphics-Card/GV-RX580AORUS-8GD-rev-10-11
https://www.gigabyte.com/Graphics-Card/GV-RX580AORUS-4GD-rev-10-11
https://www.gigabyte.com/Graphics-Card/GV-RX570AORUS-4GD
https://www.gigabyte.com/Graphics-Card/GV-RX580XTRAORUS-8G
https://www.gigabyte.com/Graphics-Card/GV-RX580AORUS-8GD-rev-10-11

If you read my entire post you'd see that I noted that Gigabyte's twitter marketing has been strange going all the way back to September.


My post wasn't saying anything about GPP being lesser than expected, as I think it's been read that way. I'm saying that it likely hasn't and will continue to not have any immediate impact on product launches unless this was negotiated and signed far in advance of NVIDIA making their marketing post and us learning about its true purpose from Kyle. It's not something that's going to hurt AMD, Intel, OEMs/AIBs, or consumers overnight; it will hurt us long term.
 

variant

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Questions should be posed why Gigabyte didn't put AMD's high end GPU under their high end gaming brand. The fact that they didn't should have raised eyebrows. Kyle's release explains perfectly why they didn't.
 

chithanh

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German website ComputerBase directly asked Gigabyte why they do not sell their Radeon eGPU box under the Aorus brand (unlike the Geforce eGPU boxes):
ComputerBase said:
ComputerBase hat bei Gigabyte nachgefragt, warum das Modell mit Radeon RX 580 als einziges der Serie nicht unter Gigabytes Marke für Spieler „Aorus“ läuft. Der Hersteller erklärt, der Fokus liege in diesem Fall nicht auf Spielern. Mit der Produktseite ist das allerdings nicht in Einklang zu bringen, deren erste Überschriften „Turn Your Ultrabook to Gaming Platform“ und „Upgrade the Game Experience“ lauten.
https://www.computerbase.de/2018-03/gigabyte-gaming-box-rx-580/#update1

This translates roughly to:

ComputerBase asked Gigabyte why the model with Radeon RX 580 is the only in the series which does not come with the "Aorus" gaming branding. The manufacturer states that the product is not gamer focused. This however is inconsistent with the product page, whose headings are "Turn Your Ultrabook to Gaming Platform" and "Upgrade the Game Experience".
 

5150Joker

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German website ComputerBase directly asked Gigabyte why they do not sell their Radeon eGPU box under the Aorus brand (unlike the Geforce eGPU boxes):

https://www.computerbase.de/2018-03/gigabyte-gaming-box-rx-580/#update1

This translates roughly to:

ComputerBase asked Gigabyte why the model with Radeon RX 580 is the only in the series which does not come with the "Aorus" gaming branding. The manufacturer states that the product is not gamer focused. This however is inconsistent with the product page, whose headings are "Turn Your Ultrabook to Gaming Platform" and "Upgrade the Game Experience".

The RX 580 box says gaming in bigger letters than the NVIDIA one so what’s the big deal here? Both boxes also look nearly identical. I don’t think this is GPP at all and if it is then it’s not nearly as bad as some make it out to be.
 
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