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Gateway FPD2485W - 24" HD LCD
- Thread starter phobic
- Start date
Well tonight is the big night, I'm going to try the replacement thats coming overnight from bb.com, I was hoping that it was just a single issue problem but hear it from other people I guess this is just how it operates.
Problems I noticed with this monitor
1. monitor wanes from Bright to dark in desktop mode (i.e Going from a dark website like this one to Google.com will make the picture gradually brighter or darker.... seems like a very slow time to adjust itself
I'm thinking this is also why it is bugging out in many of my games, it cant handle the colors and transitions
2. Any games I play ( WoW, HL2 , BattleField ) The screen will "Flicker" as movement registers on the screen, Static images or when your not moving causes this to go away.
3. Heavy lag/blur/trails ~ whatever you want to call it in these games but heavily in WoW .... They are multiple colors Clear/Purple/Green occuring on fast moving images.
Problems I noticed with this monitor
1. monitor wanes from Bright to dark in desktop mode (i.e Going from a dark website like this one to Google.com will make the picture gradually brighter or darker.... seems like a very slow time to adjust itself
I'm thinking this is also why it is bugging out in many of my games, it cant handle the colors and transitions
2. Any games I play ( WoW, HL2 , BattleField ) The screen will "Flicker" as movement registers on the screen, Static images or when your not moving causes this to go away.
3. Heavy lag/blur/trails ~ whatever you want to call it in these games but heavily in WoW .... They are multiple colors Clear/Purple/Green occuring on fast moving images.
after seeing the 24 inch and 22 inch screens side by side in the store, i can honestly say there is no comparison between the two. the 24 blows the 22 away, in my opinion. myself, i'm debating whether or not to take the 24 back and get the 20 inch NEC. i'm a big fan of the NEC Opticlear screen but this 24 inch Gateway is pretty darned nice, too. decisons, decisions!
FerretBoi said:
Let us know how different they look. I am very interested to hear what degree of variance the qulity of these monitors can be. I am trying to decide weather to just keep it, exchange it or get return and try another model. Although I don't know of any alternatives that would make me happier. Maybe a the benq with 1:1 and the z to reduce motion blur/ghosting/trailing
BPini said:
Well before this i was using a Dell2407 from Costco and sidebyside the Gateway blows it away, Except after using it a long time ;p it gives me bloody headaches!
I was waiting for the New NEC 24 inch but it just seems to be delayed forever.
FerretBoi said:
Are you playing your games in native mode (1920 x 1200), if not then the scaling from your video card could be introducing some of these "blur" effects you are having. I run games at native resolution and have not seen this issue.
iseedeadpeople said:
If you want to use the display as a TV 22 and 24 will do, but with 24 you'll get full HD over component and DVI ports ... the 22 scales Full HD and HD to 1680 x 1050. Plus for audio, the 24 also has a speaker bar option that lets you input the audio from your cable / sat box directly into the speaker bar. The 22 speaker bar will let you do this as well, but you are limited to one audio input vs 2 on the 24.
I just got my hdmi to dvi converter, hooked up my ps3 and tried switching over to 1080p. so far, no luck. screen just flickers a bit and goes black. all other setting work.
also tried this on the xbox 360 and have the exact same problem as pNin01.
oh yeah, i'm using the vga cable with my video card right now and i notice that banding isn't as bad as using dvi.
i'm thinking about returning this monitor now. i bought it because i thought it would have 1080p support.
also tried this on the xbox 360 and have the exact same problem as pNin01.
oh yeah, i'm using the vga cable with my video card right now and i notice that banding isn't as bad as using dvi.
i'm thinking about returning this monitor now. i bought it because i thought it would have 1080p support.
aeon said:
Did you try setting the DVI video mode in the advanced menu from RGB to YUV? As for the converter, are you using a passive dongle / cable or are you using some sort of box. A simple converter cable / dongle is all that is needed (although you will need to get analog sound directly from PS3).
Ok,
I have had this monitor for about 4 days now. I have tried to calibrate it using a gretagmacbeth eye one display. Havent had much luck. My profile keeps ending up with lots of the grays showing green or pink tones on gradient ramps.. Its probably my eye one though, as its the original one, and starting to show some age. Then again, maybe it shouldnt be THAT far off. There is slight banding on gradient ramps out of the box as well. Somehow, I managed to make them worse when trying to do too much with the calibrator.
For photo editing (something I do alot), a luminance of about 120 is recommended. This baby was hitting almost 400 (My NEC CRT couldn't do 70, ( I think 85 is recommended for CRT), its 5 years old). Lowering the contrast to about 23 gave me the necessary luminance. I bump it back up to 40 for everything else besides photo editing.
Brightness I keep at 80, and am able to see black levels really well. I am REALLY close to a 6500 kelvin temp though, which is a good thing.
I am kind of on the fence about keeping it or not. The slightest head movement causes shifts in contrast. For example, this forum here, the grey bars that go left to right, are brightest directly in front of my eyes, falling off in color to the sides. I understand that is expected somewhat on LCD's, but that sensitive?
I do see lots of flickering in Half Life 2, especially when you have dark and light textures together. For example, think a speckled cave wall. Moving your view around causes all kinds of light shifts. Doesnt matter what mode Im in.
I noticed it on far Cry as well, on the dark vegetation areas.
bright scenes are handled nicely.
I apologize for the old games, but I mainly play console games now, and I have a theater room for that.
I guess my main question is how does this compares to the benq 24 inch??
Color Fidelity and banding any better?
Is Flickering there on the benq?
Is the benq that sensitive to the slightest head movement?
Any banding?
The 1:1 thing isnt that big of a deal for me, as I will only use this monitor on my computer. Manily for photo editing (Non- professional, but I do like it to be accurate), and the occasional MMORPG games I dabble with.
Any help would be appreciated.
Johnny
I have had this monitor for about 4 days now. I have tried to calibrate it using a gretagmacbeth eye one display. Havent had much luck. My profile keeps ending up with lots of the grays showing green or pink tones on gradient ramps.. Its probably my eye one though, as its the original one, and starting to show some age. Then again, maybe it shouldnt be THAT far off. There is slight banding on gradient ramps out of the box as well. Somehow, I managed to make them worse when trying to do too much with the calibrator.
For photo editing (something I do alot), a luminance of about 120 is recommended. This baby was hitting almost 400 (My NEC CRT couldn't do 70, ( I think 85 is recommended for CRT), its 5 years old). Lowering the contrast to about 23 gave me the necessary luminance. I bump it back up to 40 for everything else besides photo editing.
Brightness I keep at 80, and am able to see black levels really well. I am REALLY close to a 6500 kelvin temp though, which is a good thing.
I am kind of on the fence about keeping it or not. The slightest head movement causes shifts in contrast. For example, this forum here, the grey bars that go left to right, are brightest directly in front of my eyes, falling off in color to the sides. I understand that is expected somewhat on LCD's, but that sensitive?
I do see lots of flickering in Half Life 2, especially when you have dark and light textures together. For example, think a speckled cave wall. Moving your view around causes all kinds of light shifts. Doesnt matter what mode Im in.
I noticed it on far Cry as well, on the dark vegetation areas.
bright scenes are handled nicely.
I apologize for the old games, but I mainly play console games now, and I have a theater room for that.
I guess my main question is how does this compares to the benq 24 inch??
Color Fidelity and banding any better?
Is Flickering there on the benq?
Is the benq that sensitive to the slightest head movement?
Any banding?
The 1:1 thing isnt that big of a deal for me, as I will only use this monitor on my computer. Manily for photo editing (Non- professional, but I do like it to be accurate), and the occasional MMORPG games I dabble with.
Any help would be appreciated.
Johnny
FerretBoi said:
Hi,
I was wondering if you could quantify this a bit, or at least describe what is better/worse.
I keep reading here where someone says this LCD is awesome... and then big reviews listing more problems than I've read about with other supposedly 'problem' LCDs like the Dell. One of my good friends has a Dell 2405, and when I've been over to his house, I've been fairly impressed with it. But, it seems they might have messed some stuff up on the 2407... but hard to quantify how much without them side-by-side.
If you have both monitors.... please, please give us some good comparison.
You'll really be helping some of us fence-sitters out. LOL We'll give you the golden Guinea pig award. -Steve
Seemore said:peTeMelster, "crushed blacks" refers to an image in which the very dark gray colors have been shifted darker so that they also appear as black. It is especially a problem in very dark images like night time scenes.
CRT monitors naturally convert linear color values, like those commonly stored in image or video files, into the correct color space for your eye to see the way you expect. LCD panels do not inherently do this, and so the manufacturer must add color conversion hardware as part of the display, and then must code the color conversion formula into the software of the monitor. This formula is complicated, and manufacturers of inexpensive displays often get it wrong, causing crushed blacks.
Here is a simulation I created. Notice in the lower-left area of the first image you can see detail on the wall and can make out a radiator. In the second image, all of the detail has disappeared along the wall and the floor.
Normal image:
Image with simulated crushed blacks:
Honeslty, I can barely notice the radiator you have mentioned for the first image, I can't even make it out and the only difference I see between the two images is a gray line in the first that is also barely noticeable.
I don't think a normal user/ person will actually pick up on this and you did state that you work in was it the video industry and thus you have a little more eye for little details like this when compared to the normal individual.
Also, as far as those with 360 and the 1080p issue, I do know that basically to get 1080p through compoenent the display has to support it. I have read that the specs on Gateways site the Monitor only supports 1080p through the DVI-D as the HDCP standards mandate, also through the VGA resolution obviously, but not through compenent. I have read though in this thread that there is some discrepency about whether or not that the Monitor can indded to 1080p through the component input as Gateway's site has it listed. Well, all I have to say is if you are having issues of 1080p going through compoenent then basically there is a typo or error on Gateways site.
As far as a calibration goes, I say to those who wish to get your monitor properly calibrated with out any type of second guessing then get a Spyder.
http://www.ramelectronics.net/html/Spyder2-express.html
Honestly, you spent easily over 700 dollars on the monitor, for most once sales tax kick in, and if you want to ensure proper calibration of colors what is another 80. It sure beats the hassle of trying to eyeball and guessing if you have the right colors and the like.
JaconKin said:
Really? I'm just looking at this on my PowerBook's LCD display, and the difference is quite dramatic in my opinion.
Maybe your blacks are so crushed you can't see the difference in the photos...lol
Seriously though.... I do see quite a difference. What kind of display are you using?
-Steve
SteveW928 said:Really? I'm just looking at this on my PowerBook's LCD display, and the difference is quite dramatic in my opinion.
Maybe your blacks are so crushed you can't see the difference in the photos...lol
Seriously though.... I do see quite a difference. What kind of display are you using?
-Steve
I am using a CRT Monitor actually, it is an 8 year Dell/Sony Trinitron.
So the crushing of blacks according to the guy who posted the pics doesn't happen on a CRT.
So how is it that I don't see the detail that he is talking about, it is due to the fact that I take the calibration of my screens very seriously. The two most important aspect of any type of proper calibration isn't color, but brightness and contrast as these effect color and picture detail more then any other setting on a display, rather monitor or TV. Also Brightness and contrast are the two most important because they affect the key areas that produce picture. Contrast effects the light of a scene the primary color that produces light white levels. While brightness obviously affect the opposite of light and that is night and shadows and the color that produces these black.
Unfortunately, I don't have a Spyder or Avia or the DVE calibration disc that many use to calibrate displays. What I do have are DVDs that have the THX Optimizer on it and this can be used to ensure that your contrast and brightness are properly set, although even with this it has be eyeballed.
I have my brightness set to right around 74-76. I know that this is right around the sweet spot for brightness on my monitor. Contrast on the other hand is set right around 60.
You can read about how I came about my settings via the THX optimizer site here.
http://www.thx.com/mod/products/dvd/optimizerIntro.html
I often laugh when I hear people that sometimes when playing a game it is too dark and thus they begin to adjust there brightness, I am like uh, that is the way the game is supposed to be, or if you find it to dark most games now a days include a brightness adjuster in game itself.
Sometimes it takes a while for people to adjust to having a properly calibrated dispaly with brightness and contrast levels set according to the way they are supposed to be. This is due in part that most have been using imporoper calibratoin settings, contrast to high and brightness likewise to high, have become accustomed to images looking this way. I won't even get into having sharpness and the light set improperly.
As far as the images go, the only way I can see the detail that man is speaking of is if I adjust my contrast and brightness to 100 percent. Yet, when I look at the way the image is supposed to look and the effects of the shadows the image is suppsed to produce, the details he is mentioniong shouldn't actually be seen.
JaconKin said:
Hmm... so if you go to this page... and look at the bottom chart, do you see all the steps?
http://www.mediacollege.com/video/test-patterns/grayscale.html
I can clearly see them all, except for the two brightest whites... they are VERY close on my display.. I can only see the difference at some angles to my LCD. I can see all the steps at the black end, though the last two are pretty close.
My guess... is that if you can't see the difference between his two photos, you won't see the last few black boxes either.
But, I agree that it gets tricky with these LCDs, since angle to the screen changes it.... which drives me nuts compared to my Hitachi 751 CRT I used to have. But, I kind of have gotten used to the angle I need to be at for it to look most accurate.
-Steve
SteveW928 said:
The grayscale chart below displays 33 increments of gray.You should be able to see all the shades except maybe a few of the deeper blacks.
Also the Pluge Pattern Test is a better example of ensuring correct brightness I feel.
http://www.mediacollege.com/video/test-patterns/pluge.html
Yes I see every color except as it stipulates that a few of the blacks won't appear.
As far as your white issue could be a matter of blooming.
http://thx.com/mod/products/dvd/contrast.html
JaconKin said:
Hmm... yea, I can see all the steps (except as I noted, the last two whites were extremely close).
I guess my thing though... if you can't see the last few steps... won't detail be lost in the shadows, etc.? I'm having a hard time understanding why not being able to see the last few steps is a good thing. Doesn't that mean that say... 93%, 96%, and 99% all just look the same.. black? That just logically doesn't sound correct to me... no matter what the calibration charts say.
-Steve
stephen2002
Limp Gawd
- Joined
- Dec 23, 2005
- Messages
- 141
I'm a little confused by this one. Isn't the "lamp intensity adjustment" the brightness setting? Or are you trying to say that turning down the brightness on this monitor just makes the LCD block more light by making everything darker instead of actually dimming the lamp?Seemore said:
Tim-in-CA said:
Yes, Im playing in native resolution, my earlier post said i tired multiple resolutions and settings with the same result.
I got the 2nd monitor in last night from bestbuy and it does the exact same thing as my 1st 2485 atleast to a slightly lesser extent (but still headache induseing). The screen flickering in games is totally unacceptable along with the motion blur. I cant see recommending this monitor to anyone that games or does color sensitive work. If you just browse the internet and play card games the Gateway 2485 is for YOU!.
I guess this is just how this monitor operates, which is unfortunenate because I really like it over the Dell 2407.
I guess ill just wait for the NEC 24 incher...
Yep, I noticed the radiator going poof & such right away here at work on my monitor. (I'm not a professional video/film industry person, but I am an unabashed videophile/video encoding whore).
I have the 2185W...the buzzing I got used too, and after a lot of tweaking, it's pretty damn good for "regular" use, gaming, etc...
However, TBH, I really love the quality of my 8 year old P990, and the P991s here at work. CRTs are still godly for some tasks compared to newer LCDs, DLPs & co. Huge, yes, power hogging, yes, but for some...it is sooo worth it.
I have the 2185W...the buzzing I got used too, and after a lot of tweaking, it's pretty damn good for "regular" use, gaming, etc...
However, TBH, I really love the quality of my 8 year old P990, and the P991s here at work. CRTs are still godly for some tasks compared to newer LCDs, DLPs & co.
Huge, yes, power hogging, yes, but for some...it is sooo worth it.So this 24" monitor doesn't support 1080P over VGA? I have the 21" Gateway widescreen and even though the manual implies it won't work at 1080P over the VGA it actually does and produces an excellent picture with the 360 outputting 1920x1080P. I was hoping the 24" version would work with it as well. I just saw this online and was hoping to upgrade to it. But without working at 1080P over the VGA I can't use this since 30% of my usage would be with the Xbox 360 with the rest being with my PC. This really sucks if it won't work with the 360 at 1080P.
BPini said:
I thought a couple of people earlier said they had a problem? But if you are running it oK then that is good news. I just need to wait for BB to get them so I can use a 12%/10% off coupon along with 2 or 3 years no interest. Then I'll just need to sell my 21".
FerretBoi said:
What did you like about the Gateway over the Dell?.... if it has worse colors and flickering / motion blur... I find it hard to believe the Dell is worse. Yikes!
Also, do you think this would be an issue for watching movies and stuff if the LCD was driven by and HTPC? If the monitor is really 6ms, it should be able to do up to about 166 FPS... which is really high to me. Even if it were 12ms full range (as 6 is probably G-G). That is still 83 FPS... which is plenty for video. My friend has a Dell 2405, which is only rated at 12ms, and it is fine for video he says.
My guess is that gamers see this stuff because they push the number of FPS way up high, right? I don't really play these kind of games... just some PS2 stuff like GT4, etc. And, I want to use it as a TV hooked to an HTPC.
Thanks,
-Steve
SteveW928 said:What did you like about the Gateway over the Dell?.... if it has worse colors and flickering / motion blur... I find it hard to believe the Dell is worse. Yikes!
Also, do you think this would be an issue for watching movies and stuff if the LCD was driven by and HTPC? If the monitor is really 6ms, it should be able to do up to about 166 FPS... which is really high to me. Even if it were 12ms full range (as 6 is probably G-G). That is still 83 FPS... which is plenty for video. My friend has a Dell 2405, which is only rated at 12ms, and it is fine for video he says.
My guess is that gamers see this stuff because they push the number of FPS way up high, right? I don't really play these kind of games... just some PS2 stuff like GT4, etc. And, I want to use it as a TV hooked to an HTPC.
Thanks,
-Steve
I Tested 2 Dell 2407's and 2 Gateway 2485's here is a unprofessional pros and cons of both of them =p
Dell ~ The image was solid and uniform, I had no issues with ghosting, blurring, or flickering as I did with the 2485 in the 6 months I used it. This was the main reason why i liked it.
Dell ~ The 2407's lamp wasnt very bright altho i didnt notice the severity until I had the 2485 side by side with it, I didnt like when scrolling thru text that white letters would turn greenish. Obviously the banding issue. I was able to match the colors of the dell to the 2484 but i had to put the monitor into gaming mode which enabled the Fuju chip and increased banding issues.
Gateway - The Colors! Oooh the brightness! Everything was so clear and crisp it almost melted my eyes. The gateway no doubt has the better picture of the 2 and i wish i could have kept it if it wasnt for...
Gateway - The flickering in games and in the desktop, this monitor acts like a 80's TV with a faulty optical sensor for detecting light and dark rooms. After hours it would give me a migraine because of the constant flickering of the screen. Motion Blur in WoW was very noticeable also.
These issues happened in the desktop also, so no matter what FPS you are achiving it will always happen, Its just the nature of the Monitor.
SteveW928 said:
Perhaps understanding what "black" is in video terminology will help you understand. This is taking from the Pluge test I had linked earlier.
Black level basically refers to the brightness of the darkest areas in the picture (black is never completely black, it's just a very dark gray)
Now if "Black" is a very dark grey actually, what happens is that you have levels of "black" thart are darker then black.
Taking from the THX part.
The goal is to use your brightness adjustment to make the THX logo (lighter than/above "black") barely visible, while making the drop shadow (darker than/below "black") blend into the surrounding "black" areas (see Figures 2-4).
Further explanation of Black Levels:
What is "below black"? Well, "Studio" calibrated video levels define the upper and lower black and white levels differently than the digital levels of Computers. Computers use levels of 0-255, while "Studio" calibrated Video uses 16-235. Unlike Avia where you want to try to have the black signal more or less equal to the surrounding black.
BTW, here goes a really good bar similiar to the one you posted:
Hope this helps a bit.
Also, it is this issue of proper calibration and what I like to say the ignorance of ensuring proper calibration that I take some reader reviews with a grain of salt, in general.
Leaving any type of display at "factory" settings I know for sure is not going to give one the best results.
Dispaly with out Proper Calibration:
Dispaly after Proper Calibration:
Pics are not mine, so I can't speak for the quality of the pics.
FerretBoi said:
I expereinced the exact same motion blur problems and only kept mine two days as it was that bad...sure wish there was a good quality 24" out there to be had at the present time...NEC will be releasing their 24" based on the S-IPS panel after the 1st of the year, but I can't wait that long so looks like either a 20.1" or a 22" (well ferget that, their all TN panels
)Just returned from exchanging my FPD2275W for the FPD2485W. So far there's no noticeable bleeding, no dead pixels, nothing bad at all. In fact it's rather stunning after lowering the brightness and red level so my eyes would stop bleeding, hehe.
I'll be reporting again after a few days of breaking 'er in with WoW.
I'll be reporting again after a few days of breaking 'er in with WoW.
peTeMelster
Limp Gawd
- Joined
- Oct 20, 2006
- Messages
- 198
Dell and Samsung's 24" are IMO the worst. At this point, you really should be debating between BenQ (both of them) and Gateway, maybe also the NEC and LG.