Games with the best level design

In recent years, Dark Souls and Bad Company 2 for different reasons.
 
I'm going to just list console gmaes...begining with...T...because I can... :D

Tomb raiders (though I haven't played them all all the way through)
Tenchu (though i've only played some of the PS1/2 games, gah this game should stop being on the Wii [they were apparently terrible] and other places where it was murdered, and probably make a PC version...)
Tekken... though not great in a layout sense (until 4 it was just an endless disk) lots of the levels are memorable in looks...
Twisted Metal(s)
Typing of the Dead. Because it uses a Keyboard.

Ok.
 
As for what I've been playing over the past week: Sonic & SEGA All-Stars Transformed.

I'm thinking about digging through my storage to see if I can find an old copy of Raven Shield... Damn you thread.
 
For creativity/variety: Psychonauts

Also from what I have seen: Alice (both games) had pretty creative levels too.
 
The Uncharted series. Would have been perfect as PC games; PS3 graphics and 720p suck badly after you're used to playing with all DX11 effects on max@1080p.
 
Duke Nukem 3D steamrolls anything I've ever played. It's sad. More sad that people talk on

For multiplayer I have to say Quake Live has a huge amount of community made gems that never seem to die. Blood Run (ztn), Aerowalk (Preacher). Those originally Quake 1 maps are not only still relevant, they are played to death and still provide and excellent experience. Some stock maps are also good. Tim WIllits actually made some good maps there. Great gameplay. DM13 for example.

In my experience maps can save or completely brake a game as they strongly influence gameplay, both in single and multiplayer.

Sixthsense said:
American Mcgee's Alice ( the original, based on the old Quake 2 engine)
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Alice used Quake 3 engine lol. Q2 games looked way worse than that. And yes, some were beautiful :)

Also, some Undying maps come to mind.
 
^ yeagh.. havent really played quake live too much. played a bit more like metric ton of quake 3 though, and ztn maps and 3wave ctf maps were the bomb. My favorite map of all time actually comes from quake 2, q2dm1 the edge. Id software ac tually released it for quake 1, where it began but wasnt finished late so they included it into q2. It acutally was the spiritual predessor to quake 3 dm6 The campgrounds.



To OP: i would have to say check out the quake done quick series of machinima. It will show you how crazy and complex level design of quake games are. Where a rocket jump here and then a grenade jump there, a kill here can cause them to clear whole areas of boards.. basically they beat the game in 8 minutes. It will really make you rethink how you play them. Also you should try the Tricks and Traps map from doom 2. really fun map. For some odd reason, i really loved the first 8 baords of doom/ultimate doom. those maps seem to be some of the best in doom series.

While i love halo games, my biggest gripe with that series on level designs, the maps are genereally a little too horizontal. Lockout from halo 2 was a great map though. Lots of up/down and flowed well.

Ok mario 3, super mario world, and Mario 64 all had some amazing level design. In particualar mario 64, whose level design i think is still some of the best out there. Kinda sad, that the camera system hasnt held up as well. Kinda funny, because that was one of the first games to "figure out" 3d camera back then, and everybody thought ti was soo awesome.
 
The first Ninja Gaiden, Dark Souls, Darksiders, Fallout 3, Skyrim.

I'm always a fan of exploration and large levels that end up forming a seemless giant level.
 
wyqtor said:
The Uncharted series. Would have been perfect as PC games; PS3 graphics and 720p suck badly after you're used to playing with all DX11 effects on max@1080p.
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They are all incredible games but level design was very straight forward. They masked it very well and did a ton of polishing though.
 
Gooch3008 said:
man, anytime i think about memorable levels i think of that destroyed town in rogue spear. its all rainy and shit, too. so awesome.
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Freaking Kosovo. My buddy and I played terrorist hunt on that map 5 times a week for like a year. With the volume up, it was so immersive.
 
Quicksilver_ said:
Thief is a game I need to get into, damn Windows 7 being a thorn in my side unable to run it.
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Piotrsama said:
You can run it perfectly on Win7.
You need to download DDFix.
http://www.saleck.net/creations/gamefixguides/thief.php

Some months ago, I finally completed it and Thief 2.
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No and no!

Get the 1.19 patch, fans reversed-engineered the source code leak and fixed everything up! See here: http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=140085
 
wyqtor said:
The Uncharted series. Would have been perfect as PC games; PS3 graphics and 720p suck badly after you're used to playing with all DX11 effects on max@1080p.
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These games are the reason I'm offended by modern day level design. There's no challenge or exploration in the platforming in these games. I am impressed with the Super Mario 64 responses, I've played that game more times than I can remember and is still one of the best aged games from that era.
 
Portal 1/2
Half Life 2
Super Metroid
Donkey Kong Country
Donkey Kong 64
Banjo Kazooie
Zelda Link to the Past
Super Mario World
Super Mario 3
Super Mario 64

I'm sure I've missed some, these just come to mind. This is strictly level design. There are games I enjoy as much or more based on other factors as well... Skyrim, Fallout New Vegas, Ocarina of time, Majora's Mask, Final Fantasy VIII, IX, X, Suikoden 2, GTA San Andreas, Crysis, Far Cry 2, to name a few....
 
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My votes would go to:
- Myst/ Riven series
- Stalker series (more for the unique locations (later on in the games))
- Dear Esther
- Mirror's Edge
- Just Cause & GTA

I would also assume games like Assassins Creed & Dishonored, but I haven't played them.
 
I think a lot of games with excellent level design are games that have been played competitively for many years. Either developers supported their product to improve and perfect the levels. Or the community made their own contributions. Counter strike is one of those examples. Other games that did level design well (in my opinion) are the Unreal Tournament and Quake franchises.

But then there is a different way of looking at level design as well. Looking at it from a casual point of view with the objective of fun in mind, then I think both Battlefield 2 and Battlefield 3 do a great job despite the flak they get for some of their levels. The main thing I like about the larger levels of those games is variety. There are enough tight corridors and spots where close quarters combat is important, but then there is also enough room for vehicles and longer range combat to play an important role. Finally, the levels in the game adds differences in height and elevation into the gameplay, which is usually not a big staple of modern military shooters. So despite the fact that some maps are broken for competitive play, they are still well done in their own way.

When it comes to single player games, I would have to go with a lot of the Nintendo franchises. These games are often still about the gameplay and not about making poor level design in an interactive movie. Take super mario Galaxy, or any dungeon in the Zelda franchise. These people know what they are doing. Other older games also come to mind. Megaman had excellent levels. The way they introduced enemies one by one, made sure you got to see what they did before you encountered them., the challenges that they put in there etc. were great. There were a lot of great games in that period of gaming (NES, SNES) that did the same. UN squadron comes to mind.

Special mention is for Portal 1 and 2 , for obvious reasons. And pretty much any Valve game I have ever played. Most notably next to portal, the Half Life games.
 
Sonic 1, 2 and 3.
Contra
Tomb Raider Anniversary
Uncharted
Mark of the Ninja
Commandos 2
Red Alert 2
Warcraft
Assassin's Creed 2
Red Dead Redemption
Heavenly Sword
Gears of War 2
Unreal Tournament
Quake
The Longest Journey
Grim Fandango
 
While I'd agree that Super Metroid had some fabulous level design, I can't help but think it was more of an accident than something intentional. What makes it so great is that it's mazelike, interlinked with itself, with not specific path that a player must travel.

Now maybe I'm just cynical, but I think that if it were made today (or made with more rigorous playtesting, perhaps with a nagging boss who wants everything "perfect") the designers would have added extra checks to prevent players from progressing without the items they're supposed to have, which would have instantly removed half the fun of the levels.
 
djsb said:
While I'd agree that Super Metroid had some fabulous level design, I can't help but think it was more of an accident than something intentional. What makes it so great is that it's mazelike, interlinked with itself, with not specific path that a player must travel.

Now maybe I'm just cynical, but I think that if it were made today (or made with more rigorous playtesting, perhaps with a nagging boss who wants everything "perfect") the designers would have added extra checks to prevent players from progressing without the items they're supposed to have, which would have instantly removed half the fun of the levels.
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Metroid games have fantastic level design from my experience. I just find them really hard to get into. One day I'm going to dedicate time to finish Metroid Prime. As for SWAT 4:
[IM]http://i.imgur.com/U0BEFJZ.jpg[/IG]
Booyakasha! Sure I shot more people than I arrested, but any idiot who refuses to put their gun down after copping pepper spray and several assertive shouts was going to cop it.
 
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Deus Ex: Human Revolution for single player

Battlefield: Bad Company 2 for multiplayer
 
djsb said:
While I'd agree that Super Metroid had some fabulous level design, I can't help but think it was more of an accident than something intentional. What makes it so great is that it's mazelike, interlinked with itself, with not specific path that a player must travel.

Now maybe I'm just cynical, but I think that if it were made today (or made with more rigorous playtesting, perhaps with a nagging boss who wants everything "perfect") the designers would have added extra checks to prevent players from progressing without the items they're supposed to have, which would have instantly removed half the fun of the levels.
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I was thinking the same thing, about the maze structure... the great thing about super metroid is that there were no nag screens telling you where to go next and not so much hand holding. The same can be said about a lot of my favorite games, where you can become insanely powerful early on or do things no intended for you to do. Final Fantasy VIII and XII both have this quality. On the opposite end of the spectrum are games like Zelda Twilight Princess or Skyward sword, while being fun in their own right have way too much hand holding and are restricted by comparison. I didn't realize how much hand holding was in Ocarina of time either until I gave it another play. That damn owl and navi....

A great game to give a try would be Zelda Parallel Worlds mod... not the newest one though, version 1.1. Love the level design, love how hard or easy it can be depending on how you play it and whether you get your magic upgrade and the cane of byrna early on. Really the hardest part of that game is the first dungeon or two until you get your gloves to lift rocks, and thus, access to the first magic upgrade. Then you just need the cane of byrna. By the end of the game you are a walking God with that cane and all the magic upgrades.
 
djsb said:
Now maybe I'm just cynical, but I think that if it were made today (or made with more rigorous playtesting, perhaps with a nagging boss who wants everything "perfect") the designers would have added extra checks to prevent players from progressing without the items they're supposed to have, which would have instantly removed half the fun of the levels.
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I actually have to disagree with this point, as I think it's these (sometimes completely unintentional) shortcuts that actually make the great level design even better. Think of it this way - for games like Super Metroid and others like it, there is the "proper" method of progressing through the game, which involves the player following the normal progression of the game from point A -> B -> C, etc. But, if players are skilled and knowledgable enough, they can take advantage of mechanics (and sometimes exploitation of glitches) to go from point A -> C, completely skipping B in the process. This is known as sequence breaking, and opens up a completely new way of playing the game.

The first time that you play a game like Super Metroid and having no prior knowledge of the game, you would have no way of knowing how to perform these sequence breaking techniques. Sure, you may stumble upon them by accident, but it's not very likely. But once you do get wind of them, it automatically opens up the game world in a completely brand new way, and you now have a whole lot of players playing those same great levels in interesting, clever ways. Talk about replay value!

To really see some amazing stuff, check out some speed runs of Metroid Prime - there's some GDLK sequence-breaking stuff going on in those videos that only a few VERY skilled individuals can pull off.
 
Mabu said:
I actually have to disagree with this point, as I think it's these (sometimes completely unintentional) shortcuts that actually make the great level design even better. Think of it this way - for games like Super Metroid and others like it, there is the "proper" method of progressing through the game, which involves the player following the normal progression of the game from point A -> B -> C, etc. But, if players are skilled and knowledgable enough, they can take advantage of mechanics (and sometimes exploitation of glitches) to go from point A -> C, completely skipping B in the process. This is known as sequence breaking, and opens up a completely new way of playing the game.

The first time that you play a game like Super Metroid and having no prior knowledge of the game, you would have no way of knowing how to perform these sequence breaking techniques. Sure, you may stumble upon them by accident, but it's not very likely. But once you do get wind of them, it automatically opens up the game world in a completely brand new way, and you now have a whole lot of players playing those same great levels in interesting, clever ways. Talk about replay value!

To really see some amazing stuff, check out some speed runs of Metroid Prime - there's some GDLK sequence-breaking stuff going on in those videos that only a few VERY skilled individuals can pull off.
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Reread my post, as I may have just phrased it awkwardly. We were never in disagreement. To add extra checks that ensure the player would proceed as intended would have made the game less fun than it ended up being.

I was, rather, lamenting that the current culture of epic big budget games with lots of oversight (and Super Metroid would probably be one of those if it were made today) would have precluded such fun accidents from ever being possible.
 
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