Games where silencers "degrade" after a couple shots.

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zamardii12

2[H]4U
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So, I love MGS. I am stoked for the arrival of MGS 5 and I have been playing Ground Zeroes to psyche myself up for it but the fact that the suppressor on the rifle regrades as quickly as it does is the most ridiculous thing i've ever seen. MGS has always been my favorite series, and as far as weapons and what-not they've always tried to make them believably realistic but that silencer degradation is so incredibly stupid. Only during the Vietnam era were weapon silencers only usable for around 10 shots, but it didn't make them unusable afterwards, it simply became louder and louder the more used. MGS 5 takes place in 1984... 9 years after the events of Ground Zeroes. So I hope that this improves a lot.

I am pretty sure other games have done this too, but this game takes it to a level that is incredibly stupid and unrealistic. I understand the point is to think before shooting, but it's just silly and I really hope they fix it.
 
I dunno, I don't think I've ever played a game where suppressors have been handled realistically. I've never heard of a suppressor so effective that it makes your shots so quiet that people in the next room can't hear it at all.
 
I will tell you guys in a month or so when my AAC Titan Ti gets in :D Cans do degrade over time, for instance if you had a suppressor on a M249 machine gun blazing hundreds of rounds through it the baffles can get pretty tore up. But this would take so much ammo no normal person would ever do that. Though a lot of newer suppressors are made of extremely hard materials like inconel so this really is a non issue.
 
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It's a good mechanic, the silencers are op as it is they should be a limited resource as they cause no detrimental effects to the weapons power and can be place on multiple weapons. You could think of it as limited subsonic ammunition instead.

drklu said:
I will tell you guys in a month or so when my AAC Titan Ti gets in :D Cans do degrade over time, for instance if you had a suppressor on a M249 machine gun blazing hundreds of rounds through it the baffles can get pretty tore up.
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Im pretty sure they do make 'suppressors' for those but they are built to just hide muzzle flash not silence.
 
yourgrandma said:
It's a good mechanic, the silencers are op as it is they should be a limited resource as they cause no detrimental effects to the weapons power and can be place on multiple weapons. You could think of it as limited subsonic ammunition instead.


Im pretty sure they do make 'suppressors' for those but they are built to just hide muzzle flash not silence.
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Then it's not a suppressor, it's a flash hider.

I can't imagine most weapons would see so many rounds through them it would wreck a modern suppressor in any normal lifespan, unless maybe the ones in MGS are made out of oil filters. Even if you ran out of subsonic ammo you could still use normal ammo with one, it would just be louder.
 
zamardii12 said:
So, I love MGS. I am stoked for the arrival of MGS 5 and I have been playing Ground Zeroes to psyche myself up for it but the fact that the suppressor on the rifle regrades as quickly as it does is the most ridiculous thing i've ever seen. MGS has always been my favorite series, and as far as weapons and what-not they've always tried to make them believably realistic but that silencer degradation is so incredibly stupid. Only during the Vietnam era were weapon silencers only usable for around 10 shots, but it didn't make them unusable afterwards, it simply became louder and louder the more used. MGS 5 takes place in 1984... 9 years after the events of Ground Zeroes. So I hope that this improves a lot.

I am pretty sure other games have done this too, but this game takes it to a level that is incredibly stupid and unrealistic. I understand the point is to think before shooting, but it's just silly and I really hope they fix it.
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Suppressors reduce the sound of a firing gun from the sound of a roaring jet engine down to the sound of a pounding jackhammer.

If you want the game to be realistic: you would never use a suppressor as using ANY kind of firearm in a stealth mission is suicide.
 
I agree no game really represents suppressors on a realistic realm. I've shot a few suppressed firearms most recently a nice series 80 colt 1911, with a giant gemtech suppressor on it. Ran it wet and the thing is still way louder then any game tries to make them sound, but it is indeed quiet enough to forgo ear protection. Mainly they deter the sound of shots traveling far distances to alert surrounding enemies. But in the next room? Yeah you'll hear it... That's for sure. The only exception are suppressed 22's which can get insanely quiet.

And yes, it is simply a game mechanic for MGS. Think if it how you will, but also like mentioned MGS is not a realistic game.
 
zamardii12 said:
I highly disagree with this.
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+1 - what about long range engagements with a sniper rifle ? Suppressors dramatically reduce the shock wave of the round leaving the barrel so you don't get a lot of dust and debris kicking up around your position that could possibly give your location away. Not to mention countless other scenarios where having a smaller audible footprint when firing would be beneficial..:confused:
Also, firing weapons at night, suppressors also reduce the muzzle flash that would could give your position away instantly.
 
zamardii12 said:
I highly disagree with this.
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Special forces routinely use suppressors effectively, so I'd say it is safe to say the statement is inaccurate.

The suppressor is designed to make the gun's report less likely to be noticed. You can fire a suppressed rifle without ear protection in some cases. Heck, the MP5SD line (with integral suppressor) is relatively quiet enough that you can hear the bolt.
 
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drklu said:
+1 - what about long range engagements with a sniper rifle ? Suppressors dramatically reduce the shock wave of the round leaving the barrel so you don't get a lot of dust and debris kicking up around your position that could possibly give your location away. Not to mention countless other scenarios where having a smaller audible footprint when firing would be beneficial..:confused:
Also, firing weapons at night, suppressors also reduce the muzzle flash that would could give your position away instantly.
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Good points

but...

You'll find very few suppressed long-range firearms in the real-world. Those that exist are usually notably short-range compared to the big-boom brethren. This is because of the effectiveness of the suppressors with supersonic ammunition. a decent chunk of the sound from a gunshot is the 'clap' the actual munition makes as it flies through the air at supersonic speeds. This clap is incredibly loud and very directional, completely negating any advantage a suppressed shot would otherwise give. Essentially, the suppressor is useless for the reasons stated above (lack of directional acuity to alerted forces, reduced noise). The shot is quieter than unsuppressed, but still by no means stealthy. The way to combat this supersonic clap is to use subsonic ammunition (leading to the false rumour that subsonic rounds were 'required' for suppressors..), as subsonic ammunition makes a much more subtle noise as it travels through the air, and is much more suited to such 'stealth' uses. The problem with subsonic rounds is that they are much less accurate (or just outright useless) at long ranges, as the reduced speed ammunition has much more drop, and is much more susceptible to wind. Not to mention that after a bullet has slowed down enough on account of air resistance, it practically becomes non-lethal. All of these factors make it pretty much unheard of to suppress a long-range firearm. Smaller, suppressed 'urban snipers' exist, however they are purpose built, and are designed for a much shorter range of effectiveness, as they use low-calibre subsonic ammo. Their effective ranges are impressive for such quiet weapons, but by no means in the leagues of most 5.56 NATO rifles, hence the 'urban' qualifier in their name. They are designed to make an accurate shot from a couple of city blocks, not a couple of hundreds of yards.

To compound this more: We are still talking about a gas expansion as loud as a standard jackhammer. The stories of the MP5SD suppressors reducing the noise so far as making the mechanical action of the bolt 'the only audible sound' are all myths started by Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six. The sound of the gasses expanding would still be well and truly over 110 DB.
 
KazeoHin said:
Good points

but...

You'll find very few suppressed long-range firearms in the real-world. Those that exist are usually notably short-range compared to the big-boom brethren. This is because of the effectiveness of the suppressors with supersonic ammunition. a decent chunk of the sound from a gunshot is the 'clap' the actual munition makes as it flies through the air at supersonic speeds. This clap is incredibly loud and very directional, completely negating any advantage a suppressed shot would otherwise give. Essentially, the suppressor is useless for the reasons stated above (lack of directional acuity to alerted forces, reduced noise). The shot is quieter than unsuppressed, but still by no means stealthy. The way to combat this supersonic clap is to use subsonic ammunition (leading to the false rumour that subsonic rounds were 'required' for suppressors..), as subsonic ammunition makes a much more subtle noise as it travels through the air, and is much more suited to such 'stealth' uses. The problem with subsonic rounds is that they are much less accurate (or just outright useless) at long ranges, as the reduced speed ammunition has much more drop, and is much more susceptible to wind. Not to mention that after a bullet has slowed down enough on account of air resistance, it practically becomes non-lethal. All of these factors make it pretty much unheard of to suppress a long-range firearm. Smaller, suppressed 'urban snipers' exist, however they are purpose built, and are designed for a much shorter range of effectiveness, as they use low-calibre subsonic ammo. Their effective ranges are impressive for such quiet weapons, but by no means in the leagues of most 5.56 NATO rifles, hence the 'urban' qualifier in their name. They are designed to make an accurate shot from a couple of city blocks, not a couple of hundreds of yards.

To compound this more: We are still talking about a gas expansion as loud as a standard jackhammer. The stories of the MP5SD suppressors reducing the noise so far as making the mechanical action of the bolt 'the only audible sound' are all myths started by Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six. The sound of the gasses expanding would still be well and truly over 110 DB.
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Ah....no.....just no. I don't even know where to start on all of this.

1.) Cans are widely used in the SOF world on their sniper rifles, almost no one uses subsonic. They do this for reduced sound and visual signature. It also gives a reduction in recoil, not as much as a brake but then again you aren't making the sound louder and also kicking up a shitload of debris around you. And extremely widely used on their carbines, you can barely look at any photos of SOF guys with ARs etc and not see a can on the end of it anymore.

2.) Bullets are still lethal at around 100-200 ft/lbs of energy displacement and when you run the numbers thats pretty slow.

Cans are supposed to make you sound like something other than a gunshot. If you are hearing the supersonic bullet crack you are already fucked, because if that first shot missed chances are they've got their wind/dope correction now and that follow up shot is going to get you.
 
Seems kinda arcadey. Like the old days where you picked up a power up that last for a few seconds.
 
Who knew [H] had so many Delta Ranger Seal Operators...
 
KazeoHin said:
Good points
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Thanks for the run down but I am well aware of how suppressors work with sub or supersonic ammunition. I think you are pretty far off from reality on the use of suppressors in the military. If anything they are becoming more common. Since they can benefit you in nearly any military engagement with little or no maintenance and no reduction in accuracy and power given you are using full loads.
 
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