brucedeluxe169
2[H]4U
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Man, I don't wanna sound like a douche, but I was actually able to own that game easily with my cousins, even as children....
Dunno why, but that game never was hard for us
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Games that can never be made again because of difficulty
- Thread starter ikarinokami
- Start date
Man, I don't wanna sound like a douche, but I was actually able to own that game easily with my cousins, even as children....
Dunno why, but that game never was hard for us
geraltofrivia
Limp Gawd
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Super Ghouls and Ghosts
Krenum
Fully [H]
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Dude whatever , Zelda II is fuckin awesome! It was very challenging. One of my favorite games of all time, but I agree, this game could never be made today.
Roflcopter_Down
[H]ard|Gawd
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FFXI it was even too difficult when it came out
BiH115
Gif Guy
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Have to sort of agree here. By sort of, I mean that a buddy and I decided, on a whim, to buy FFXI with all expansions for a very low cost back in 2009 I believe, and we were dumbfounded when we joined the server for the first time. We were like "What the hell do we do now..?". Even in 2009, still no hand holding. Now too sure a game should be like this right from the get-go, but it was different enough to where we kept playing for a bit.
ikarinokami
Gawd
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for some reason, I was always good at this game, and could finish without the use any of the extra lifes. it was the only game where i was able to memorize all the attack patterns by the enemies.
Zelda 2 is my favorite game because I use it as a validation tool. If someone comes up to me and says Game XYZ is bad ass. My first question is 'did you like Zelda 2' If they say yes I go and buy XYZ if they say no I look for a second opinion because they obviously have extremely different taste in video games......and likely have Fast and the Furious listed in there top 10 favorite movies.
Not that there is anything wrong with not liking Zelda 2 and liking Fast and the Furious.....but its just means me and you are quite different.........yes in my head people who don't like Zelda 2 are placed in the same bucket as people who do like Fast and the Furious.
On to the game yes it was quite hard but this was hard in a good way in a rewarding way. Never forget when you fight your shadow and just how bad ass it was.
BiH115
Gif Guy
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All I got from the XYZ talk was: "You ever play Zelda 2 and like it? Oh, you didn't? Well your opinion isn't worth a damn to me then."
Sound reasoning.
What's in your top 10 movies then exactly? Black/White movies? The Godfather series?
Everyone's a critic.
LeninGHOLA
Vladimir Hayt
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Don't worry, there's no shame in liking Fast & Furious, well at least there is no shame if you never tell anyone.
We all prejudge, at least a little. If you tell me the writing in PS:T was shitty, I push you down a flight of stairs.
We all prejudge, at least a little. If you tell me the writing in PS:T was shitty, I push you down a flight of stairs.
BiH115
Gif Guy
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Don't worry, there's no shame in liking Fast & Furious, well at least there is no shame if you never tell anyone.
We all prejudge, at least a little. If you tell me the writing in PS:T was shitty, I push you down a flight of stairs.
We talking about Planescape here? I think I have a copy somewhere, never beat it though unfortunately, had too little of an attention span at the time.
Also I love the fast and furious movies! Fast and furious wannabees now...that's a different story. Shame no one actually walks the walk when it comes to wanting to see who has the better car/driving skills haha. At least not in my hometown, though everyone acts like a "baws".
Yeah, this "lazy kids" excuse makes little sense to me because I was far more dedicated to games as a kid than I am now.
I think it has more to do just with the changing style of gaming. Old games had to be hard because that's all they had going for them. You controlled a few dozen pixels trying to attack/dodge/kill a few dozen other pixels. If it were not challenging it would not be entertaining.
Games like Double Dragon, Battletoads, even Aladdin on PC... they kept me interested as a kid purely because they were challenging. If I'd finished them on my first play through it would hardly be an interesting experience. Rather it was fun trying, dying on the first level, trying again, reaching the boss and getting killed, trying again and getting killed by the same boss, trying again and finally getting to the next level.
As games have gotten increasingly cinematic and less about muscle memory, timing and figuring out the patterns of enemies/obstacles, the absurdly hard difficulty has gone the way of the dodo.
I've been playing Starship Troopers recently (not a terribly good game, but I'm enjoying it) and it has no checkpoints and is considerably harder on "normal" mode than most modern games, and when I die it's more frustrating than anything else opposed to being rewarding when I finally get past it like the good old platformers of yesteryear.
On the other hand, when it comes to platformers, I except a certain level of challenge even from modern platformers because that's half the fun, failing and trying again and failing and trying again and eventually figuring it out.
Wasn't meaning it in a bad way. Everyone has different taste.
But that is how I see it if you didn't like Zelda 2 your opinion doesn't mean anything to me because we likely very different taste. Just like if someone said their favorite move is Fast and the Furious and they hated The Shawshank Redemption....we likely will never see eye to eye on entertainment.
Zelda 2 adds RPG elements into Zelda and RPG fans tend to love Zelda 2 where people more action based hate Zelda 2. I don't like or play action and I pretty much only play RPG's so this game works quite well in finding people with similar taste as myself.
Hope this doesn't steal the topic but since you asked movies I like.....
The Shawshank Redemption, Pulp Fiction, Fight Club, Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind, seven, tombstone, interview with a vampire, usual suspects, American Beauty.....movies of this nature as far from fast and the furious as you can get pretty much.
BiH115
Gif Guy
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Nah, I figured. Doesn't necessarily mean you can't see eye-to-eye. For instance, I loved every Zelda game (not the stupid CD-ROM make-shift versions), and I play a lot of action/adventure games as well.
I've never seen Eternal Sunshine, but every single movie you mentioned I enjoyed a lot, and yet I loved the crap out of Fast and Furious.
Honestly the only reason old games were so hard was because of storage limitations. Try playing any old game on an emulator and giving yourself "checkpoints" with the save function. You can finish almost any platformer in 15 minutes. As for turn based RPGs, I can't comment, they bored me to tears (and still do).
One older game I'd like to see remade is Alpha Centauri.
One older game I'd like to see remade is Alpha Centauri.
Krenum
Fully [H]
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Oh the memories. Love this game.
I'll chime in here too. I agree with the OP, Ultima Online was a game that can never be made again because of difficulty.
Some people that played may remember Post t2a/Pre-Ren UO with skill locks, runebooks, secures, house commands, etc. I played UO from about a month after release until slightly after Ren and then for years on Pre-Ren servers. Here is why pre-t2a UO was the hardest game ever:
1) Skills gained passively. Got your 700 total in skills just right? Better hope someone didn't make a fucking campfire and wreck your shit.
2) Stats gained extremely slowly and could not be locked. You prayed to gain more str than dex so getting your int back up would work out. You could mine for a few days/week and maybe get 80 str but that would fuck up the other stats. Balancing these to get the maximum str/int for a mage was pretty fucking difficult. I think the closest I got before the various skill exploits (such as herding) arrived was 92 str and only 40-odd dex. 80+ resist and 90 str made you a fucking GOD.
3) Dying fucking sucks. Die in a dungeon? Better run to the outside and hope for a healer or ankh. Oh and by the time you got back your shit was gone because your body decayed as time moved much faster in the dungeons.
4) PKs were EVERYWHERE. I remember starting with friends in Trinsic and dying immediately after leaving town to a fucking fireball wand.. Not to mention your "practice sword" did like 1 damage total per swing.
5) Magic was EVERYTHING and Magic resist was EXTREMELY hard to gain. Yes, later there were mage NPC bugs etc but magic damage was so high that one or two spells would outright kill most people. Oh and they paralyze spell lasted the duration of the spell originally so you could be paralyzed and then casted on and you could do NOTHING.
6) Housing was buggy and also tied to your key. You had to have the key physically in your pack to open the house. If someone stole it, you lost your entire house because even with a copy it would never be secure. There were no lockdowns in houses and for a while you couldn't place objects on the tiles near walls as people could try to rubberband lag into the wall and snatch a bag. Oh and when the patch came that added housing menus guess how they did it? The first one with a key to use the door was the owner. I ended up with a large forge and tower simply due to logging out with the key next to the steps and beating the owner to login.
7) Starting off was fucking difficult. There were no newbie areas. Towns had guards but the timer to call guards was less than 30 seconds. Thieves waited at Inns with friends to loot them when they died from the guards. You started with like 100 gold which bought maybe a weapon. Bandages and healing didn't work/didn't exist really.. they took like a full minute and barely healed anything. It was all magic and reagents were EXPENSIVE.
8) Weapons. Magic weapons in early UO/Dread Lord days were so fucking absurd. A vanquishing heavy crossbow could A) Be shot while moving B) Instantly kill you from like 70+ life. It was so broken that you could have newbie PKs with archery and a force/power weapon and legitimately WRECK people.
9) Connection mattered more than any MMO, ever. I lived in Austin and thus had an immensely overwhelming advantage on Test Center. 30 ping vs 300 ping (cable vs dialup) was not even close especially if the low ping person was a dexer. You were dead. I could literally run circles around people and this was magnified on horseback. I went from being a middling thief/pvper to getting a cable connection and running a 1 man train on whole groups of people.
10) There was no guild chat, no global chat, nothing. You were on screen and talking or off screen and not involved. Teamspeak solved some of this but how did you tell someone where you died in the woods? "uhh, near the guard tower halfway to brit take a left and follow uhhh some mountains and then uhh.. fuck it i'll find a healer or something"
I have never played an MMO since mostly because when I tried them for a few days it seemed so easy. Also because I don't have 10 hours per day to try to mine ore (without getting PKed) dragging it or using mules (most mines did not have forges originally) to a forge in town (without getting it stolen) to gain .1 Blacksmithy every 10 trips. That game was hard and exhilarating. Nothing comes close to how brutally difficult that game could be. Get one key stolen and lose months of effort.
Some people that played may remember Post t2a/Pre-Ren UO with skill locks, runebooks, secures, house commands, etc. I played UO from about a month after release until slightly after Ren and then for years on Pre-Ren servers. Here is why pre-t2a UO was the hardest game ever:
1) Skills gained passively. Got your 700 total in skills just right? Better hope someone didn't make a fucking campfire and wreck your shit.
2) Stats gained extremely slowly and could not be locked. You prayed to gain more str than dex so getting your int back up would work out. You could mine for a few days/week and maybe get 80 str but that would fuck up the other stats. Balancing these to get the maximum str/int for a mage was pretty fucking difficult. I think the closest I got before the various skill exploits (such as herding) arrived was 92 str and only 40-odd dex. 80+ resist and 90 str made you a fucking GOD.
3) Dying fucking sucks. Die in a dungeon? Better run to the outside and hope for a healer or ankh. Oh and by the time you got back your shit was gone because your body decayed as time moved much faster in the dungeons.
4) PKs were EVERYWHERE. I remember starting with friends in Trinsic and dying immediately after leaving town to a fucking fireball wand.. Not to mention your "practice sword" did like 1 damage total per swing.
5) Magic was EVERYTHING and Magic resist was EXTREMELY hard to gain. Yes, later there were mage NPC bugs etc but magic damage was so high that one or two spells would outright kill most people. Oh and they paralyze spell lasted the duration of the spell originally so you could be paralyzed and then casted on and you could do NOTHING.
6) Housing was buggy and also tied to your key. You had to have the key physically in your pack to open the house. If someone stole it, you lost your entire house because even with a copy it would never be secure. There were no lockdowns in houses and for a while you couldn't place objects on the tiles near walls as people could try to rubberband lag into the wall and snatch a bag. Oh and when the patch came that added housing menus guess how they did it? The first one with a key to use the door was the owner. I ended up with a large forge and tower simply due to logging out with the key next to the steps and beating the owner to login.
7) Starting off was fucking difficult. There were no newbie areas. Towns had guards but the timer to call guards was less than 30 seconds. Thieves waited at Inns with friends to loot them when they died from the guards. You started with like 100 gold which bought maybe a weapon. Bandages and healing didn't work/didn't exist really.. they took like a full minute and barely healed anything. It was all magic and reagents were EXPENSIVE.
8) Weapons. Magic weapons in early UO/Dread Lord days were so fucking absurd. A vanquishing heavy crossbow could A) Be shot while moving B) Instantly kill you from like 70+ life. It was so broken that you could have newbie PKs with archery and a force/power weapon and legitimately WRECK people.
9) Connection mattered more than any MMO, ever. I lived in Austin and thus had an immensely overwhelming advantage on Test Center. 30 ping vs 300 ping (cable vs dialup) was not even close especially if the low ping person was a dexer. You were dead. I could literally run circles around people and this was magnified on horseback. I went from being a middling thief/pvper to getting a cable connection and running a 1 man train on whole groups of people.
10) There was no guild chat, no global chat, nothing. You were on screen and talking or off screen and not involved. Teamspeak solved some of this but how did you tell someone where you died in the woods? "uhh, near the guard tower halfway to brit take a left and follow uhhh some mountains and then uhh.. fuck it i'll find a healer or something"
I have never played an MMO since mostly because when I tried them for a few days it seemed so easy. Also because I don't have 10 hours per day to try to mine ore (without getting PKed) dragging it or using mules (most mines did not have forges originally) to a forge in town (without getting it stolen) to gain .1 Blacksmithy every 10 trips. That game was hard and exhilarating. Nothing comes close to how brutally difficult that game could be. Get one key stolen and lose months of effort.
I really loved UO. I liked some of the later combat / stat / skill refinements, along with anything that improved the interface (like skill and stat locks). I also supported housing changes so you had a safe permanent place to stash your stuff. I loved how harsh the old world was, Trammel really killed it. I never thought dying was a big deal, since I would have 20+ grab bags ready in my house that replaced all equipment and supplies I lost.
Those magic weps were pretty killer, but I the big gamble of running around with them made a lot more interesting. I usually relied on GM made items, except for silver weps when farming.
Those magic weps were pretty killer, but I the big gamble of running around with them made a lot more interesting. I usually relied on GM made items, except for silver weps when farming.
shad0w4life
Gawd
- Joined
- Jun 30, 2008
- Messages
- 689
F yeah, I loved UO for that reason. Such a rush whenever you ran through a dungeon on a PK run etc.
I remember fighting the Korean guilds on Sonoma, epic battles! Nothing has come close since then, dying means jack squat. One of the things I really miss is fighting a large battle, dying then doing a speed run to res, get more gear and get back out there to hopefully not be too late to get back in before your team got wiped. Sometimes you could do that fast enough to turn the tide of the fight, other times everyone was dead and you just ran back in to say "Hi, I brought you more stuff to take"
Plus it was all skill and tactics, everyone had a chance to be the same character build and switch as needed. And you could macro at night to get skills up..which was still risky and people would try and kill you while you did this which lead to creative ways of killing people and trying to loot them through walls etc heh.
I remember fighting the Korean guilds on Sonoma, epic battles! Nothing has come close since then, dying means jack squat. One of the things I really miss is fighting a large battle, dying then doing a speed run to res, get more gear and get back out there to hopefully not be too late to get back in before your team got wiped. Sometimes you could do that fast enough to turn the tide of the fight, other times everyone was dead and you just ran back in to say "Hi, I brought you more stuff to take"
Plus it was all skill and tactics, everyone had a chance to be the same character build and switch as needed. And you could macro at night to get skills up..which was still risky and people would try and kill you while you did this
which lead to creative ways of killing people and trying to loot them through walls etc heh.Nah, I figured. Doesn't necessarily mean you can't see eye-to-eye. For instance, I loved every Zelda game (not the stupid CD-ROM make-shift versions), and I play a lot of action/adventure games as well.
I've never seen Eternal Sunshine, but every single movie you mentioned I enjoyed a lot, and yet I loved the crap out of Fast and Furious.
Yeah its not a perfect method but it does help to get an idea on taste, a good example is that I pretty much only like Zelda 2 and thought the rest of them are just ok.
But back to topic.....
Etrian odyssey 1, 2, and 3......This game has that good kind of hard and is modern so the [H]ard hasn't been taken out of all games.
I remember trying to perfect thievery in UO. Stealing from people right at the bank, hoping no one saw "you notice so_and_so stealing" If you never saw it, you just got free stuffs. lol. God forbid if the someone saw you and yelled Guards! Halbred to the head, one shot.
Or how about stealing from a guildmate with your tags off and then people attacking you in town thinking you would be permagray? I primarily played a thief and I remember that my friends and I on Atlantic (Trinsic Borrowers) would sit between cove and the orc fort where the path goes to one tile and make a hidden box. People would shove through one person and we would steal everything they had because they couldn't move until they regained stamina to push through the next person
UO rocked. It was great for it's time. It's definitely too bad that the mainstream games have moved away from real PVP with consequences.
There is the indy Mortal Online which is made by some of the same developers, I havent played it since it was in open beta, but it does have the mechanics of UO (full loot, guard zones, thievery and etc).
There is the indy Mortal Online which is made by some of the same developers, I havent played it since it was in open beta, but it does have the mechanics of UO (full loot, guard zones, thievery and etc).
DeathPrincess
Fully [H]
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Bosom
[H]ard|Gawd
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- Apr 23, 2003
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- 1,750
Someone put this in Genmay, but it belongs here
Haven't posted in a long time but I had to log in and share some EQ love. Played 2000-2006 and it will always be my favorite game. I could never go back to playing it, I simply don't have the time nor would I want to spend that much time on a game again, but it holds my fondest gaming memories.
RaZoRbLaDeD
Gawd
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- Aug 12, 2003
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- 564
Ghosts and Goblins
Sounds like you and I would get along.