Games that can never be made again because of difficulty

Biznatch

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Another unique thing about AC I forgot about was spells. In the begining you had to LEARN the spells. You had spell components, that had to be arranged correctly for each spell. Then you had to have to skill to be able to cast the spell successfully. Once that was done it was added to your available spells. On top of that, as the spells got higher levels, 1 or 2 of the components were random for each user. So you couldn't just copy what someone else figured out. WIth 12 possibilities for that slot, when there were 2 you had to try 144 combinations to try and get it. Plus failed spells burned components, which were expensive at high level. Very tedious/time consuming, but the reward was worth it. I remember being amazed when high level mages would come into town casting spells most people hadn't even seen before.

So high level mages in AC actually had to work to develop all of the spells. Either that, or get REALLY lucky and find a scroll for that specific level spell.
 

Hornet

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And I disagree with the people saying old NES/SNES/Sega Platformers. Those seem to be making a comeback lately and have been tough just the same.

I haven't been keeping up with this genre these days, but there are a few such games I played back in the Genesis days which I don't think many gamers today would enjoy. No doubt they still have their appeal, but I don't think its that wide.

For example, Adventures of Batman and Robin, this game was a difficult one, it takes a lot of practice over and over again to progress, to the point where you should remember which enemy drops health so you could be there before it floats off.

Most gamers today dislike such repetitive gameplay, where they have to play the same level over and over again practicing them so you don't die and lose respawn credits too early in the game. In this particular game, I've only managed to reach the last level a couple of times, lol, while I've been through the earlier levels many dozens of times.
 

RagingSamster

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Zork/Adventure/Colossal Cave

All because of those twistie little passages, all different.
 

MavericK

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And I disagree with the people saying old NES/SNES/Sega Platformers. Those seem to be making a comeback lately and have been tough just the same.

I would argue that most of the modern ones are not nearly as difficult, but there are probably a few that are (Super Meat Boy, that kinda stuff which is designed specifically to be difficult).
 

BiH115

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I haven't been keeping up with this genre these days, but there are a few such games I played back in the Genesis days which I don't think many gamers today would enjoy. No doubt they still have their appeal, but I don't think its that wide.

For example, Adventures of Batman and Robin, this game was a difficult one, it takes a lot of practice over and over again to progress, to the point where you should remember which enemy drops health so you could be there before it floats off.

Most gamers today dislike such repetitive gameplay, where they have to play the same level over and over again practicing them so you don't die and lose respawn credits too early in the game. In this particular game, I've only managed to reach the last level a couple of times, lol, while I've been through the earlier levels many dozens of times.


Having to re-do something in that sense is exceptionally annoying, and for me at least, defeats the purpose of relaxing. I play games to relax. Yeah sure I may get my ass kicked a few times, but if it keeps happening, I just quit and come back to it later. I feel in order to keep people playing and interested, it has to be less "smash head on desk" and more "smash fist on desk". I realize you can't make games idiotically simple, and I doubt anyone would want to play those kinds of games. Unless you have a child who is very young or something.
 

Kinsaras

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I would argue that most of the modern ones are not nearly as difficult, but there are probably a few that are (Super Meat Boy, that kinda stuff which is designed specifically to be difficult).

Super Mario Galaxy 1 and especially 2 can be brutal trying to get many stars. Rayman Origins (amazing game btw) has some very challenging levels also.
 

Mabu

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The older I get, I have less and less time for gaming, and the less and less patience I have for tedium and frustration. That's not to say that I don't enjoy a good challenge, because I much prefer that to having my hand held completely through an on-rails game with no penalty whatsoever for failure. I think the last console generation (PS2, XBOX, Gamecube, etc) hit the in-between mark pretty well, and probably why I'm more inclined to replay games from that generation than I am today's current games.

In regards to MMOs, the old-school design was just brutal. My first MMO that I sunk my teeth into was Final Fantasy XI, and I don't EVER want to go through that experience again. I enjoyed the hell out of it for almost 6 years, but there was just so many frustrating aspects to the game, not to mention the time sink required for true progression. Been there, done that, don't want to do it ever again.

Also, I never understand all the hate on the speed bike level in the original Battletoads. I always thought it to be a good challenge without being overly frustrating, and certainly not to the point of being cheap. It just required some fast reflexes and concentration, with some memorization helpg a long way as well. As for the rest of the game - F that nonsense, especially the snake level.
 

Adam.C

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I would debate that. The kiddos play the games available to them, regardless of weather they are difficult or dumbed down to the lowest denominator.

Make difficult games again and they WOULD play them, and they would eventually enjoy playing them as well as the challenge they provided. Promote such games instead and I promise we'd eventually see a change, and a change for the better.

If I didn't know any better I would say that all the big game developers deliberately were dumbing the kids down.

I can see that. I do think it has alot to do with the majority of developers.

I also forgot to mention the Quake community now (A very small one) as a whole is very un-welcoming to new players. It is very hard for new or inexperienced players to get into Quake because its all trash talk and belittling. Most people just give up because the skill gap is so large. I have been playing Quake for a very long time, and most of the people left playing the same.

I would love to see another big time arena type shooter with that sort of complexity, because I feel there is no better multiplayer FPS experience than that.
 

MavericK

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Super Mario Galaxy 1 and especially 2 can be brutal trying to get many stars. Rayman Origins (amazing game btw) has some very challenging levels also.

I played through Super Mario Galaxy and honestly didn't find it that difficult. I mean, it wasn't a cakewalk, but I would compare it to old-school platformer difficulty. Haven't played 2 or Rayman, though.
 

Kinsaras

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I played through Super Mario Galaxy and honestly didn't find it that difficult. I mean, it wasn't a cakewalk, but I would compare it to old-school platformer difficulty. Haven't played 2 or Rayman, though.

You got all the stars? SMG1 isn't that bad unless you go for all of them. I gave up getting all of them in SMG2. It’s that challenging. The galaxy you unlock after beating the game is just insane.
 

rangda

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PoF and PoH in EQ1 were the worse. I've done 24hour PoF raids in the early days of EQ, where the whole raid would wipe after the zone started repopping.

I remember wiping trying to break PoF and having to get another guild come break it so we could corpse summon. Think that took 6-8 hours. It's somewhat masochistic but I still look back fondly on that game...but EQ was really more a lifestyle choice than a game. In the early 2000's a 40 hour EQ week was considered casual play.
 

MavericK

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You got all the stars? SMG1 isn't that bad unless you go for all of them. I gave up getting all of them in SMG2. It’s that challenging. The galaxy you unlock after beating the game is just insane.

I'm pretty sure I did get them all but I don't remember, it's been awhile since I played it.
 

andrewbub

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The cool thing about those old MMO's is how hard they were required you to be on your toes at all times. For example, UO pvp getting ganked when you walked out of the city. I also like the fact that the ganking is kind of roleplay immersion. The guards inside of a city can't protect you on the outside!

EQ was next level amazing. Best game to ever come out, ever. It can't be topped in terms of MMO. The original all the way through Velious. Most of the games come out these days are so determined to be single player games, yet most of them have more subs than EQ ever had. (cough WoW cough)..
Don't believe me? You will never see a 70+ man raid again

you've obviously never heard of lineage 2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kDkbVahrWsk

2005. this is a raid on the toughest raid boss at the time with over 200 people trying to kill it.
 

LeninGHOLA

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you've obviously never heard of lineage 2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kDkbVahrWsk

2005. this is a raid on the toughest raid boss at the time with over 200 people trying to kill it.

That reminds me of those Chinese EQ guilds that collaborated to kill the Sleeper.

GM's and devs back then were very heavy handed. They disbanded Brotherhood of the Spider for "exploits" when they woke him the first time worldwide. That was well before I joined the guild, but there are current members who remember it well.
 

BiH115

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I remember wiping trying to break PoF and having to get another guild come break it so we could corpse summon. Think that took 6-8 hours. It's somewhat masochistic but I still look back fondly on that game...but EQ was really more a lifestyle choice than a game. In the early 2000's a 40 hour EQ week was considered casual play.

EQ: The game for people who really have no other interests at all.
 

Godmachine

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EQ: The game for people who really have no other interests at all.

So true. I remember raiding the Plane of Air over a 4 day period. It was incredibly hard and required to get parts of my Mage Epic.

Amazing times. But I was a teenager with nothing to do , no way could I do it again.
 

BiH115

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So true. I remember raiding the Plane of Air over a 4 day period. It was incredibly hard and required to get parts of my Mage Epic.

Amazing times. But I was a teenager with nothing to do , no way could I do it again.


Idk. When I was a teenager I was outside all the time. Don't get me wrong, I LOVED the crap out of video games. I also had a short as hell attention span when it came to sitting there.

Nowadays, I have a lot more patience and time.
 

Godmachine

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Idk. When I was a teenager I was outside all the time. Don't get me wrong, I LOVED the crap out of video games. I also had a short as hell attention span when it came to sitting there.

Nowadays, I have a lot more patience and time.

I spent like the first 6-8 months playing the shit out of EQ. Then I took some time off , went out , did my teenage thing and got a GF , spent most of my time hanging out with friends drinking and smoking (you know what). I lived in upstate NY so winters are harsh and long.

After those couple of months past (during the summer time) fall/winter would be upon us and I wouldn't want to do shit. Thankfully my GF at the time was doing some honors bullshit at school so she wasn't around very often at all. After about a couple of years she went off to college (we decided it was time to split right before hand) and I eventually stopped playing EQ and got a new GF. We moved out to Vegas (for work) and that ended my EQ playing day's for good pretty much.
 

Bosom

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FUCK BATTLETOADS. (The difficulty is an illusion. The game is fucking broken)
that is all.

This game gave me my first ever rage experience.. I was 12 or 13, I can't remember exactly, but one of those damn motorcycle obstacle levels... I punched a hole in my door and my parents took my TV out of my room and my nintendo away(that I had saved up for and bought with my own money over almost a year's time)

I can still remember how irrationally angry that game made me, and it was almost 20 years ago.

I'm going to have to break out my NES now.
 

ekuest

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You got all the stars? SMG1 isn't that bad unless you go for all of them. I gave up getting all of them in SMG2. It’s that challenging. The galaxy you unlock after beating the game is just insane.

i got 119 and the only level i remember being hard was the purple coin level on luigi where the tiles kept spinning or disappearing. from what i understand the 120th coin is beating the entire game a second time with luigi, and i wasnt at all interested in doing that just to say i got 100% instead of 99%. really didnt think it was difficult at all compared to some of the other games discussed in this thread.i actually thought super mario sunshine was was harder, but that was mostly cuz i thought the game was boring and i completely lost interest in it after about 3 hours. :/
 

BiH115

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I spent like the first 6-8 months playing the shit out of EQ. Then I took some time off , went out , did my teenage thing and got a GF , spent most of my time hanging out with friends drinking and smoking (you know what). I lived in upstate NY so winters are harsh and long.

After those couple of months past (during the summer time) fall/winter would be upon us and I wouldn't want to do shit. Thankfully my GF at the time was doing some honors bullshit at school so she wasn't around very often at all. After about a couple of years she went off to college (we decided it was time to split right before hand) and I eventually stopped playing EQ and got a new GF. We moved out to Vegas (for work) and that ended my EQ playing day's for good pretty much.

Not to sound rude or like a troll, but I'm kind of feeling like I'm reading some kind of novel, but I want to keep reading haha. Idk if that sounds weird.

Why'd you end up quitting EQ? Was your new girlfriend not supportive of video games, or?
 

Bosom

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It reads to me like he got a job and quit playing time consuming MMOs..

Plus if you're in Vegas.... why play video games?
 

BiH115

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It reads to me like he got a job and quit playing time consuming MMOs..

Plus if you're in Vegas.... why play video games?


No reason to stop doing something he loves. Hell I have a job, and I still make time for relaxation. I'd never let anyone tell me what I can and cannot do (in terms of my interests).
 

LeninGHOLA

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I spent 6+ years and like 1.5 years /played in EQ. I quit because fuck MMO's!

It was great fun, but damn, that is way too much time.
 

Domingo

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I actually permanently lost a few friends to EQ, so I've never picked one up as a result. Diablo is as close as I've gotten and I stick to SP in that series.
 

BiH115

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I actually permanently lost a few friends to EQ, so I've never picked one up as a result. Diablo is as close as I've gotten and I stick to SP in that series.

What the hell? What happened? :confused:
 
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EQ: The game for people who really have no other interests at all.

this is so true, I remember when our guild finally got on the plane of fear and hate schedule. they were 2 days events, and you had to be there, it was crazy.

Plane of Air, OMG- that was hard and definately hardcore, if you could not play your class forget about getting an invite to that raid.
 

Bdonedge

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When I played EQ heavily I was a kid in middle school I think, kept playing until high school. I did all the kid stuff, went outside, got into fights, snuck cigarettes, yada yada but I'd be thinking about EQ the whole time I was doing that stuff ;)
 

Domingo

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What the hell? What happened? :confused:

In both cases, they literally lost interest in doing anything that wasn't Everquest. We were in college at the time...so there was no shortage of things to do. Everything from parties, to dating, to movies, to football games, became tedious for them because they were worried about "missing a raid" or some magical once in a lifetime item drop. One lost his job and now works a couple days a month to pay for his EQ2 & WOW accounts, internet, etc. Last I heard he's still playing on an ancient PC I built him back in 2000.

The other ended up eventually quitting the MMO thing but became a weird hermit obsessed with internet dating...only he'd never actually meet anyone outside of phone calls and chat rooms.

I don't blame the games, but the nature of EQ certainly brought out the worst for those two.
 

LeviathanZERO

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This game gave me my first ever rage experience.. I was 12 or 13, I can't remember exactly, but one of those damn motorcycle obstacle levels... I punched a hole in my door and my parents took my TV out of my room and my nintendo away(that I had saved up for and bought with my own money over almost a year's time)

I can still remember how irrationally angry that game made me, and it was almost 20 years ago.

I'm going to have to break out my NES now.

And I'm serious too.
If by some God handed miracle you get 2 players to make it to the final stage, the game is unbeatable due to a game breaking bug where the level will not scroll to the final screen, where you fight the Dark Queen at the end. There is no solution, you have to reset.

And good, you made it past the stupid bikes too. They weren't that hard, and I know you understand since you mentioned the fucking retarded Snake pit. THAT, is the real reason to hate that stupid game.
 

BiH115

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And I'm serious too.
If by some God handed miracle you get 2 players to make it to the final stage, the game is unbeatable due to a game breaking bug where the level will not scroll to the final screen, where you fight the Dark Queen at the end. There is no solution, you have to reset.

And good, you made it past the stupid bikes too. They weren't that hard, and I know you understand since you mentioned the fucking retarded Snake pit. THAT, is the real reason to hate that stupid game.

I died laughing when I read the "hole in door part". I'm just picturing someone getting so angry they break a door, rofl.


Domingo said:
In both cases, they literally lost interest in doing anything that wasn't Everquest. We were in college at the time...so there was no shortage of things to do. Everything from parties, to dating, to movies, to football games, became tedious for them because they were worried about "missing a raid" or some magical once in a lifetime item drop. One lost his job and now works a couple days a month to pay for his EQ2 & WOW accounts, internet, etc. Last I heard he's still playing on an ancient PC I built him back in 2000.

The other ended up eventually quitting the MMO thing but became a weird hermit obsessed with internet dating...only he'd never actually meet anyone outside of phone calls and chat rooms.

I don't blame the games, but the nature of EQ certainly brought out the worst for those two.

I'm having a bit of a hard-time grasping the reality of what you just typed. That's unbelievable that those things happened.
 

MavericK

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In both cases, they literally lost interest in doing anything that wasn't Everquest. We were in college at the time...so there was no shortage of things to do. Everything from parties, to dating, to movies, to football games, became tedious for them because they were worried about "missing a raid" or some magical once in a lifetime item drop.

I had a couple friends like that in college as well. I think they eventually broke the habit but it was disgusting how much they skipped class and just didn't even bother getting dressed many days, playing WoW like 20 hours a day.
 

BiH115

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I had a couple friends like that in college as well. I think they eventually broke the habit but it was disgusting how much they skipped class and just didn't even bother getting dressed many days, playing WoW like 20 hours a day.

Whatever floats their boat I suppose.
 

Occidio

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Luckily around the time that EQ came out in 99 I was running a computer gaming center around the St. Louis area so I played games all day and night. It was my dream job. It is almost not feasible anymore.
 

Tudz

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I spent 6+ years and like 1.5 years /played in EQ. I quit because fuck MMO's!

It was great fun, but damn, that is way too much time.

That's basically my thought. I used to play text based MMOs back in the day. Played heaps of Legends of Cosrin, got a sorcerer up to level 70-ish. I stopped because I calculated the time required to grind to the next milestone where new spells would be unlocked and realised I was wasting my life :p

I've mostly avoided MMOs since then, with notable exceptions being a couple of months wasted in Warhammer Online and LOTRO :p
 

BiH115

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That's basically my thought. I used to play text based MMOs back in the day. Played heaps of Legends of Cosrin, got a sorcerer up to level 70-ish. I stopped because I calculated the time required to grind to the next milestone where new spells would be unlocked and realised I was wasting my life :p

I've mostly avoided MMOs since then, with notable exceptions being a couple of months wasted in Warhammer Online and LOTRO :p

Not anymore than nowadays where we play games that don't have just text, right? :D
 

MorgothPl

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Dizzy, Giana Sisters, Mario.... the hardest games to play and finish :)

Also text-typed adventure games, because the "leet crowd" would have problems with typing proper sentences into game :) Heh... I learned basics of English on Sierra adventure games ;)
 

jamesrb

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While not on the level of TMNT or Battletoads, I think Zombies Ate My Neighbors would fall into the category for this thread.

The sheer number of levels made this hard. Sure you could put in the code to start at the later levels but it became almost impossible at that point due to lo lack of weapons/ammo/lives. A friend and I always played this one and it quickly became clear that to beat the game, we needed to start at the beginning and go through the games 50 levels without powering off the console. While we made it to the last few levels multiple times, we never beat the final level.

In college, we were talking about the "old days" playing this game. We decided to give it another shot, 10 years later. Even with an emulator and save states, we still failed to beat the game.
 

Cajunheat

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Super Ghouls and Ghost- you battle your way all the way through this with NO saves then on the final boss, you find out you have to battle your way all the way through the game again with no saves! I can't think of to many people now a days that has this kind of time to devote to 1 playing of a game.
 

PanzeR-

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DMC just have a terrible camera system and are annoyingly hard, but they are up there.
Dragon Age origin without 2 healers on the hardest difficulty, now that was fun :)
 
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