Gamers are ditching Radeon graphics cards over driver issues

[ManofGod]

This situation really reminds me of a similar situation to when many people say they are having issues with windows 10 and then a few people come into the thread and claim that it is impossible, since its working for them.

As far as radeon drivers, I have owned many, many, many AMD cards and I have always had issues with their drivers.

I never noticed that with Windows 10 threads either. Typically, someone would come in, not join the pity party and collective rage, simply state they have not been experiencing whatever issue is occurring, and get crapped on. The claim is they said the problem never occurred, at all, which was always a straight up fabrication.

 

[IdiotInCharge]

I was biased towards AMD mainly because of the price to performance, but once and awhile the cards would make you regret that decision.

My HD6950 CFX setup broke me of that. I'll still pick up AMD GPUs where appropriate, but I'm also two or three generations away from trusting them for the top end -- whenever they get around to competing in that space again.

 

[ChadD]

The thing about all this AMD drivers are trash crap... is 99% of people saying it don't even own a AMD card.

Here is the truth of the matter... GPU game drivers suck all round. The level of suck between AMD and NV isn't really all that different. Just see saws back and forth.

NV has been doing mid month hot fixes... but they have recently stated they are considering ending the practice due to the demand on developer time.

Here is NVs redit for 442.19

Game Ready Fixes (For full list of fixes please check out release notes)
[The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt - Blood and Wine]: The game may crash when a user reaches a specific cut scene. [2726931]
[Maxwell GPUs][OpenCL]: SETI@Home shows driver TDR occuring on Maxwell GPUs using OpenCL. [2739609]
[Call of Duty Modern Warfare]: Streaming of gameplay using OBS will randomly stop. [2743477]
[Battleye][Low-Latency Mode]: Launching Battleye with NVIDIA Low Latency Mode set to Ultra may cause DWM to reset. [2775906]
[SLI+G-SYNC Stutter]: User may experience minor stuttering when using NVIDIA SLI in combination with G-SYNC. [2778783]
[Doom (2016)]: The game crashes when launched on GeForce 600/700 series (Kepler) GPUs [2791124]
[NVENC]: Memory leak occurs. [2805384]
[Multiple Apps][SLI][G-SYNC]: Stuttering and drop in frame rate occurs during gameplay with SLI and G-SYNC enabled [200566678]

Game Ready Driver Important Open Issues (For full list of open issues please check out release notes)

Windows 10 Only [Mortal Kombat]: The game may randomly crash to the desktop without error [2813996]
Windows 10 Only [Zombie Army: Dead War 4][Ansel/Freestyle]: The Ansel & Freestyle tabs are unselectable. [2810884]
Windows 10 Only [Zombie Army: Dead War 4][Vulkan][HDR]:Corrupted flickering occurs when in-game HDR is enabled. [200585136] To work around, either disable HDR or use DirectX 12 mode.
Windows 10 Only [Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six Siege][Vulkan][G-SYNC]: When playing the game in Vulkan mode with G-SYNC enabled, flickering occurs after switching the game between full-screen and windowed mode.[200578641]
To work around, either disable G-SYNC or play using an API other than Vulkan.
Windows 7 Only [World of Warcraft: Battle for Azeroth][DirectX 12]: The game crashes when switched from DirectX 11 to DirectX 12 mode. [200574934]

Scroll down the page and find.... what do you know a bunch of issues, almost all of which are reported by multiple users. I left out the ones about peoples cards seeming to be 5-10 degrees hotter with this driver.... who knows on that but there does seem to be many reporting it.

" Ran DDU and install this version. Still crash either in full screen or windowed when playing witcher 3 2700x, 32GB ram, 2080ti, windows 10 enterprise 1909. "
" I could play Witcher 3 locked at 60 fps, but if I tried to run it over that the game would crash within one minute of playing. The only fix I found that worked for me was to under clock the base and memory by 100Mhz. "
" I see your point, unfortunately (as for a lot other users) using DX12 is an issue in The Division 2 (random crashes) "
" This had fixed the Division 2 crashes, but after today's game update the DX12 crashes are back. "
.... " You're getting crashes too? I was thinking it was my OC settings, but the game crashes at default settings too. "
" Like previous driver (441.87), for my pc, this new 442.19 driver also causes noticeable micro-stutters (uneven frame-time) in games while FPS still show stable 60 FPS. Stutters disappeared when reverted to 441.66 and older drivers. "
" For me it looks like the fps cap is what caused the stutter. With it on I got bad stutter in Modern Warfare, but without it plays smoothly. "
" What about the issues with DPC latency many people are experiencing? I'm having that with everything newer than Win 10 1809 + 418.81 on 2400g + 2060. "
" thanks god. font corruption on the last driver has been pissing me off so much. hope this fixes it. "
" Did it actually work for you? I still have apps closing with the new update. "
" I have OBS and Eartrumpet crashing whenever I launch Rainbow Six Siege and Escape from Tarkov. There may be other apps but those are the two I notice immediately. "
" Any news on apex crash fixes? says "optimal support for Apex Legends Season 4" but uncertain if that means they've fixed crashes for rtx cards yet. "
....... " sadly it seems it wasn't fixed from what i just tested, submited a ticket but since this has been going on for months it's getting a bit frustrating. "
" If you play Apex don't install this version. Even after using DDU and this driver version I'm crashing EVERY game. "
" Still crashing for me DXGI device hung. I have RTX 2080 "
" Still crashing, "device hung error". GTX 1070 ti "
" Blue screen of death. 15 min into playing slay the spire. First game tested after update. Stop code: IRQL NOT LESS OR EQUAL Gpu: msi rtx 2070 duke "
..... " Same here but with GTX 1080. "
..... " Same here I can’t even uninstall the drivers without a BSOD "
" Someone that plays APEX can check the image in the link below and tell me if this menu corruption is normal? " Screen Shot
" 442.19 has the same audio issue as 441.87 for me, where if my screen turns off from the computer going idle then my monitor disappears from the audio devices, and I no longer get sound. "
" With this driver, sometimes i get a BSOD with Netflix app (from Microsoft Store). Error: SYSTEM_THREAD_EXPECTION_HANDLED / Caused by: dxgmms2.sys "


My point is only that both GPU companies have iffy drivers. Its simply seems cool to crap on AMD right now... I guess cause no one really likes stupid Overlays. NV has just as many game breaking issues.... having games like Witcher 3 crash while its popularity is surging is not good... and what do you know things that NV fix like Division 2 crashes get reintroduced. Man they should hire some decent coders. I joke... GPU game drivers are a PITA, news at 11.

 

[Imhotep]

You really need to get your hands on a Radeon VII. Freesync or Gsync make the fastest card in gaming kind of a moot point. its compute speed and memory size for the price is where its at.
Navi for the price is great as well.

 

[earnolmartin]

Meanwhile, I feel like my AMD Ryzen 1700X is the most unstable processor I've ever owned. So many weird problems, and it seems like no one knows why? I even bought a 3900X, but while in use, it just failed on me, and the entire system was hosed. Memtest complained about failing to initialize some of the CPU cores. I've never seen one fail this catastrophically. I returned that CPU, am back on my 1700X, but still feel like my system isn't entirely stable. Also, it seems like no one knows how to develop software to take advantage of this CPU. VirtualBox is so slow on AMD processors. I hate to say it, but my experience with my Ryzen makes me wish I had never switched over from Intel. There are a lot of companies out there these days that claim they know what they're doing, but unfortunately, the exact opposite is true. AMD might be one of these companies.

The "AMD" experience I've had lately certainly makes me quiver when I think about how badly they could mess up their graphics card division. If I ever build a new computer again, I'm going back to Intel, and I ditched Radeon for Nvidia long ago...

 

[DukenukemX]

The vast majority of people buying these cards wouldn't even know how to update a BIOS, much less mod one. Hardware enthusiasts aren't the only people buying GPUs.

I'm thinking there's more of a hardware issue than a software one.

Maybe take a backseat on this one here Duke and spend some more time reading because the problem can happen at the desktop of a fresh Windows install with everything at stock or even underclocked. Myself and many others have replaced RAM, motherboards, CPUs and power supplies all to have the machine black screen exactly the same way it did before, again, at the desktop, where properly configured GPUs will sit between 30-40 C, hot spot my balls.

Firstly I have actual experience with the issue and secondly I'm not trying to make it a debate between AMD vs Nvidia, like so many here. If AMD is actually at fault with defective hardware then AMD deserves to pay up their nose for warranty replacement. Obviously not everyone has this issue so to say it's their drivers fault maybe jumping the gun. I'm not having this issue now, and we know this issue plagues Vega cards as well as Navi. Inexperienced users may have set the ram up wrong or not at all. Experienced users may have pushed the ram they have too hard. Also people are generally idiots and you'd be surprised what stupidity can do.

So rather than going Hurr Durr AMD drivers suck, maybe we can use our collective knowledge to see what's different from those who have this problem compared to those who don't? There could be a number of defective AMD cards and there's a class action lawsuit waiting to happen? Maybe the drivers do suck and the issue is beyond our comprehension? Maybe AMD drivers are just sensitive to slightly unstable PCs?

Here, let me get some things started. If we get enough people to answer these questions, both from users who do and don't experience the black screen issue, then we can narrow down what the real issue is.

1. Is your AMD card a Navi, Polaris or Vega card?
2. If it based on a reference design?
3. Are you using an AMD or Intel CPU?
4. Is your system using DDR3 or DDR4 ram?
5. What were you doing when the issue occurred?
6. How often does the issue occur?
7. What PSU are you using?
8. What drives are install in your system?
9. What USB devices are plugged in?

 

[Derangel]

I'm thinking there's more of a hardware issue than a software one.

Hard to say. If everyone was having issues it would be easier to pin it on a hardware issue, but with how random it is it does feel less hardware based. BIOS, drivers, Windows, some random compat issue between any of them and software on people's computers. Not every single person having these problems is going to be using cheap, low-end, hardware and clearly not everyone having them is just an average user that doesn't know what they're doing. Being some hardware problem isn't impossible, but it seems less likely than anything else.

 

[DogsofJune]

I'm thinking there's more of a hardware issue than a software one.


Firstly I have actual experience with the issue and secondly I'm not trying to make it a debate between AMD vs Nvidia, like so many here. If AMD is actually at fault with defective hardware then AMD deserves to pay up their nose for warranty replacement. Obviously not everyone has this issue so to say it's their drivers fault maybe jumping the gun. I'm not having this issue now, and we know this issue plagues Vega cards as well as Navi. Inexperienced users may have set the ram up wrong or not at all. Experienced users may have pushed the ram they have too hard. Also people are generally idiots and you'd be surprised what stupidity can do.

So rather than going Hurr Durr AMD drivers suck, maybe we can use our collective knowledge to see what's different from those who have this problem compared to those who don't? There could be a number of defective AMD cards and there's a class action lawsuit waiting to happen? Maybe the drivers do suck and the issue is beyond our comprehension? Maybe AMD drivers are just sensitive to slightly unstable PCs?

Here, let me get some things started. If we get enough people to answer these questions, both from users who do and don't experience the black screen issue, then we can narrow down what the real issue is.

1. Is your AMD card a Navi, Polaris or Vega card?
2. If it based on a reference design?
3. Are you using an AMD or Intel CPU?
4. Is your system using DDR3 or DDR4 ram?
5. What were you doing when the issue occurred?
6. How often does the issue occur?
7. What PSU are you using?
8. What drives are install in your system?
9. What USB devices are plugged in?

Might start a new thread, without the debates, and see what info is put up.

 

[IcePickFreak]

The thing about all this AMD drivers are trash crap... is 99% of people saying it don't even own a AMD card.

Here is the truth of the matter... GPU game drivers suck all round. The level of suck between AMD and NV isn't really all that different. Just see saws back and forth.

NV has been doing mid month hot fixes... but they have recently stated they are considering ending the practice due to the demand on developer time.

Here is NVs redit for 442.19

Game Ready Fixes (For full list of fixes please check out release notes)
[The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt - Blood and Wine]: The game may crash when a user reaches a specific cut scene. [2726931]
[Maxwell GPUs][OpenCL]: SETI@Home shows driver TDR occuring on Maxwell GPUs using OpenCL. [2739609]
[Call of Duty Modern Warfare]: Streaming of gameplay using OBS will randomly stop. [2743477]
[Battleye][Low-Latency Mode]: Launching Battleye with NVIDIA Low Latency Mode set to Ultra may cause DWM to reset. [2775906]
[SLI+G-SYNC Stutter]: User may experience minor stuttering when using NVIDIA SLI in combination with G-SYNC. [2778783]
[Doom (2016)]: The game crashes when launched on GeForce 600/700 series (Kepler) GPUs [2791124]
[NVENC]: Memory leak occurs. [2805384]
[Multiple Apps][SLI][G-SYNC]: Stuttering and drop in frame rate occurs during gameplay with SLI and G-SYNC enabled [200566678]

Game Ready Driver Important Open Issues (For full list of open issues please check out release notes)

Windows 10 Only [Mortal Kombat]: The game may randomly crash to the desktop without error [2813996]
Windows 10 Only [Zombie Army: Dead War 4][Ansel/Freestyle]: The Ansel & Freestyle tabs are unselectable. [2810884]
Windows 10 Only [Zombie Army: Dead War 4][Vulkan][HDR]:Corrupted flickering occurs when in-game HDR is enabled. [200585136] To work around, either disable HDR or use DirectX 12 mode.
Windows 10 Only [Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six Siege][Vulkan][G-SYNC]: When playing the game in Vulkan mode with G-SYNC enabled, flickering occurs after switching the game between full-screen and windowed mode.[200578641]
To work around, either disable G-SYNC or play using an API other than Vulkan.
Windows 7 Only [World of Warcraft: Battle for Azeroth][DirectX 12]: The game crashes when switched from DirectX 11 to DirectX 12 mode. [200574934]

Scroll down the page and find.... what do you know a bunch of issues, almost all of which are reported by multiple users. I left out the ones about peoples cards seeming to be 5-10 degrees hotter with this driver.... who knows on that but there does seem to be many reporting it.

" Ran DDU and install this version. Still crash either in full screen or windowed when playing witcher 3 2700x, 32GB ram, 2080ti, windows 10 enterprise 1909. "
" I could play Witcher 3 locked at 60 fps, but if I tried to run it over that the game would crash within one minute of playing. The only fix I found that worked for me was to under clock the base and memory by 100Mhz. "
" I see your point, unfortunately (as for a lot other users) using DX12 is an issue in The Division 2 (random crashes) "
" This had fixed the Division 2 crashes, but after today's game update the DX12 crashes are back. "
.... " You're getting crashes too? I was thinking it was my OC settings, but the game crashes at default settings too. "
" Like previous driver (441.87), for my pc, this new 442.19 driver also causes noticeable micro-stutters (uneven frame-time) in games while FPS still show stable 60 FPS. Stutters disappeared when reverted to 441.66 and older drivers. "
" For me it looks like the fps cap is what caused the stutter. With it on I got bad stutter in Modern Warfare, but without it plays smoothly. "
" What about the issues with DPC latency many people are experiencing? I'm having that with everything newer than Win 10 1809 + 418.81 on 2400g + 2060. "
" thanks god. font corruption on the last driver has been pissing me off so much. hope this fixes it. "
" Did it actually work for you? I still have apps closing with the new update. "
" I have OBS and Eartrumpet crashing whenever I launch Rainbow Six Siege and Escape from Tarkov. There may be other apps but those are the two I notice immediately. "
" Any news on apex crash fixes? says "optimal support for Apex Legends Season 4" but uncertain if that means they've fixed crashes for rtx cards yet. "
....... " sadly it seems it wasn't fixed from what i just tested, submited a ticket but since this has been going on for months it's getting a bit frustrating. "
" If you play Apex don't install this version. Even after using DDU and this driver version I'm crashing EVERY game. "
" Still crashing for me DXGI device hung. I have RTX 2080 "
" Still crashing, "device hung error". GTX 1070 ti "
" Blue screen of death. 15 min into playing slay the spire. First game tested after update. Stop code: IRQL NOT LESS OR EQUAL Gpu: msi rtx 2070 duke "
..... " Same here but with GTX 1080. "
..... " Same here I can’t even uninstall the drivers without a BSOD "
" Someone that plays APEX can check the image in the link below and tell me if this menu corruption is normal? " Screen Shot
" 442.19 has the same audio issue as 441.87 for me, where if my screen turns off from the computer going idle then my monitor disappears from the audio devices, and I no longer get sound. "
" With this driver, sometimes i get a BSOD with Netflix app (from Microsoft Store). Error: SYSTEM_THREAD_EXPECTION_HANDLED / Caused by: dxgmms2.sys "


My point is only that both GPU companies have iffy drivers. Its simply seems cool to crap on AMD right now... I guess cause no one really likes stupid Overlays. NV has just as many game breaking issues.... having games like Witcher 3 crash while its popularity is surging is not good... and what do you know things that NV fix like Division 2 crashes get reintroduced. Man they should hire some decent coders. I joke... GPU game drivers are a PITA, news at 11.

Or , you know, some people are discussing AMD issues in an AND issue thread and leave the NV issues to threads on NV issues.

 

[ManofGod]

Meanwhile, I feel like my AMD Ryzen 1700X is the most unstable processor I've ever owned. So many weird problems, and it seems like no one knows why? I even bought a 3900X, but while in use, it just failed on me, and the entire system was hosed. Memtest complained about failing to initialize some of the CPU cores. I've never seen one fail this catastrophically. I returned that CPU, am back on my 1700X, but still feel like my system isn't entirely stable. Also, it seems like no one knows how to develop software to take advantage of this CPU. VirtualBox is so slow on AMD processors. I hate to say it, but my experience with my Ryzen makes me wish I had never switched over from Intel. There are a lot of companies out there these days that claim they know what they're doing, but unfortunately, the exact opposite is true. AMD might be one of these companies.

The "AMD" experience I've had lately certainly makes me quiver when I think about how badly they could mess up their graphics card division. If I ever build a new computer again, I'm going back to Intel, and I ditched Radeon for Nvidia long ago...

Seriously? How is your troubleshooting skills these days? You slapped a high end processor into an already unstable system and you blamed the processor?

 

[Derangel]

Meanwhile, I feel like my AMD Ryzen 1700X is the most unstable processor I've ever owned. So many weird problems, and it seems like no one knows why? I even bought a 3900X, but while in use, it just failed on me, and the entire system was hosed. Memtest complained about failing to initialize some of the CPU cores. I've never seen one fail this catastrophically. I returned that CPU, am back on my 1700X, but still feel like my system isn't entirely stable. Also, it seems like no one knows how to develop software to take advantage of this CPU. VirtualBox is so slow on AMD processors. I hate to say it, but my experience with my Ryzen makes me wish I had never switched over from Intel. There are a lot of companies out there these days that claim they know what they're doing, but unfortunately, the exact opposite is true. AMD might be one of these companies.

The "AMD" experience I've had lately certainly makes me quiver when I think about how badly they could mess up their graphics card division. If I ever build a new computer again, I'm going back to Intel, and I ditched Radeon for Nvidia long ago...

Have you, perhaps, considered that the problem isn't the CPU but another piece of hardware in your system? Maybe the motherboard, your power supply, the RAM. There's any number of things, aside from the CPU, that can cause system instability and those issues you describe.

 

[ChadD]

Or , you know, some people are discussing AMD issues in an AND issue thread and leave the NV issues to threads on NV issues.

The entire premise is that.... NV has a 1% return rate, and AMD has a 4% return rate. The article that this thread is talking about states that AMD has 5x the return rate compared to NV. This is very very very much about AMD vs NV.

The authors premises software issues are to blame. Which is a complete BS OPINION... unless they polled all the return owners, which they didn't. Their narrative of software sucks is pulled out of their asses. Their speculation is just that.

When makes 1000% more sense is that AMD would have a higher return rate even if their software was 5x better then Nvidias. They sell to very different markets. Nvidia sells mostly to the money is no object crowd that is slotting the cards into brand new builds, and into systems with over kill cooling and PSUs ect. AMD on the other hand is the value champion. 5700s are the cards you buy when you are looking for the absolute best value. So you buy the 6 month old AMD blower card stock... you buy the potentially not put together properly MSI and Asus old stock as both manufacturers had issues with the way they build their cards. (both have since corrected... but make no doubt people have got blow out deals on those cards).

So this article did a hit job on AMDs software... cause its cool to hate on Overlays. Rather then focus on the real potential reasons for a 4% return rate compared to NVs 1%. Do I believe 3 more users in every 100 sold cards.... either bought impropplerly cooled Asus Strix or MSI evoke cards and returned them, or instead of buying a 1660ti / 5600 / 580 / 590 / Vega jumped at a great deal on older stock 5700s even though they have a 550 watt PSU or a shit quality 600. Tat seems far far more likely to be the cause of 3% extra returns to me, then software problems that don't seem to effect everyone. Or a general hatred of overlays.

So yes this thread is a AMD vs NV thread... its the entire reason for it to be. If NV also had a 4% return rate the article wouldn't exist. But seeing as NV has software with just as many show stopping issues. (Seriously just as bad... the Witcher 3 and The division 2 both have crash to desktop problems right now with the current NV driver) Then clearly the reason for the extra return rate is not software. However the same site... and all the youtube kids have been going on for months about 5700 cards with bad build quality on thermal pads ect... heck the Asus 5700 cards haven't had working cooling for months they just fixed it recently and are offering free screw replacements. Those are the likely reasons for returns... The Manufacturers Fucked up this generation. Half covered ram and back plates that don't contact the board properly... on 2 of the biggest names in the game MSI and ASUS. I think that might account for the returns, really I'm shocked the return rate on the Asus cards isn't 100%.

 

[Derangel]

The entire premise is that.... NV has a 1% return rate, and AMD has a 4% return rate. The article that this thread is talking about states that AMD has 5x the return rate compared to NV. This is very very very much about AMD vs NV.

The authors premises software issues are to blame. Which is a complete BS OPINION... unless they polled all the return owners, which they didn't. Their narrative of software sucks is pulled out of their asses. Their speculation is just that.

When makes 1000% more sense is that AMD would have a higher return rate even if their software was 5x better then Nvidias. They sell to very different markets. Nvidia sells mostly to the money is no object crowd that is slotting the cards into brand new builds, and into systems with over kill cooling and PSUs ect. AMD on the other hand is the value champion. 5700s are the cards you buy when you are looking for the absolute best value. So you buy the 6 month old AMD blower card stock... you buy the potentially not put together properly MSI and Asus old stock as both manufacturers had issues with the way they build their cards. (both have since corrected... but make no doubt people have got blow out deals on those cards).

So this article did a hit job on AMDs software... cause its cool to hate on Overlays. Rather then focus on the real potential reasons for a 4% return rate compared to NVs 1%. Do I believe 3 more users in every 100 sold cards.... either bought impropplerly cooled Asus Strix or MSI evoke cards and returned them, or instead of buying a 1660ti / 5600 jumped at a great deal on older stock 5700s even though they have a 550 watt PSU or a shit quality 600. Yep I that seems far far more likely to be the cause of 3% extra returns to me.

Any yes this thread is a AMD vs NV thread... its the entire reason for it to be. If NV also had a 4% return rate the article wouldn't exist. But seeing as NV has software with just as many show stopping issues. (Seriously just as bad... the Witcher 3 and The division 2 both have crash to desktop problems right now with the current NV driver) Then clearly the reason for the extra return rate is not software. However the same site... and all the youtube kids have been going on for months about 5700 cards with bad build quality on thermal pads ect... heck the Asus 5700 cards haven't had working cooling for months they just fixed it recently and are offering free screw replacements. Those are the likely reasons for returns... The Manufacturers Fucked up this generation. Half covered ram and back plates that don't contact the board properly... on 2 of the biggest names in the game MSI and ASUS. I think that might account for the returns, really I'm shocked the return rate on the Asus cards isn't 100%.

Wooooow, you have no idea what you are talking about. Seems like you have a hard-on for AMD and just want to come up with excuses for everything, no matter how much sense they make. I rather doubt rando internet poster #500,000 knows more about the situation than people who have direct industry contacts and have a proven track record for honestly.

Nvidia owns the VAST MAJORITY of the discrete GPU market. It is not even remotely close to only selling to people buying expensive cards. Halo cards account for a tiny minority of buyers. Most people buying Nvidia cards are buying at the exact same price points as people buying AMD cards and putting them in the same kinds of systems.

Nvidia's drivers suck as well, but don't imply it's even on the same level. A few game issues (among some other bugs, especially the ever present "driver has stopped working" bug) vs black screens on any 3D application, broken fan profiles, fans that don't report properly, temps not reporting correctly, wonky overclocking, randomly broken driver installs that require the use of DDU to fix (also a problem with Nvidia drivers). Even massive AMD fanboys like Adord are shitting on AMD's drivers right now. Pull your head out of the clouds man. The drivers are fucked. It's not all people shoving cards into crappy systems. That is a shit excuse and you fucking know it.

 

[Snowdog]

So this article did a hit job on AMDs software... cause its cool to hate on Overlays.

You really think HWUB (AKA Techspot) did a hit job on AMDs anything. Be serious, those guys, while fair, lean more in AMDs favor if anything.

IMO, what makes this issue really blow up, is all the endless denials and rationalizations, that make all these threads go on forever.

 

[ChadD]

Or , you know, some people are discussing AMD issues in an AND issue thread and leave the NV issues to threads on NV issues.

The entire premise is that.... NV has a 1% return rate, and AMD has a 4% return rate. That is what spurred

Wooooow, you have no idea what you are talking about. Seems like you have a hard-on for AMD and just want to come up with excuses for everything, no matter how much sense they make. I rather doubt rando internet poster #500,000 knows more about the situation than people who have direct industry contacts and have a proven track record for honestly.

Nvidia owns the VAST MAJORITY of the discrete GPU market. It is not even remotely close to only selling to people buying expensive cards. Halo cards account for a tiny minority of buyers. Most people buying Nvidia cards are buying at the exact same price points as people buying AMD cards and putting them in the same kinds of systems.

Nvidia's drivers suck as well, but don't imply it's even on the same level. A few game issues (among some other bugs, especially the ever present "driver has stopped working" bug) vs black screens on any 3D application, broken fan profiles, fans that don't report properly, temps not reporting correctly, wonky overclocking, randomly broken driver installs that require the use of DDU to fix (also a problem with Nvidia drivers). Even massive AMD fanboys like Adord are shitting on AMD's drivers right now. Pull your head out of the clouds man. The drivers are fucked. It's not all people shoving cards into crappy systems. That is a shit excuse and you fucking know it.

I do own a 5700 XT... and have never encountered a black screen on anything. I might be inclined to believe this crap software is 100% to blame for returns narrative if I was a NV user.

The entire nartive that AMD owners are having black screens all over the place is BS. I know this cause I do not get black screens all over the place. lol My card runs fine... drivers are solid. I am not doubting there are not issues... all drivers have issues. But to say every AMD owner is having issues is stupid... we aren't.

I trust youtubers looking for clicks exactly zero... click bait headlines are great for getting the views and subs up. Considering the number you need before you get paid. I am hardly shocked to see them running popular hit jobs. Yes its cool right now to say AMDs drivers suck... I get it they redesigned things and added an overlay. I admit from reading reports it sounds like this latest redesign is a bit wonkier then the previous one... but I have little doubt after an update or two everything will be fine. When Nvidia releases a driver that causes popular games like Apex L, Witcher 3, Division 2 to all crash to desktop the world doesn't catch on fire. Wonder why that is.

I never said NV didn't sell more cards. But these same you tubers and satellite sites that have spent 6 months harping on specific cards like the MSI Evoke 5700 xt for having improperly installed ram thermal pads.... and the Asus strix 5700 XTs for having crap back plates that don't even contact the card, and XFX thicc cards with a factory installed bios that lets the card get to 100 degrees before turning off fan stop. Now some of these same people that did good reporting on hardware issues are same now saying the extra 3% return rate has got to be software related. They are disingenuous view count chasers, nothing more. Some good reporting was done which clearly places the blame on at least 3 major AMD GPU vendors.. this software = returns narrative now detracts from their own good reporting.

 

[ChadD]

You really think HWUB (AKA Techspot) did a hit job on AMDs anything. Be serious, those guys, while fair, lean more in AMDs favor if anything.

IMO, what makes this issue really blow up, is all the endless denials and rationalizations, that make all these threads go on forever.

Just seems logical to me... that if your looking at HARDWARE return rates. Perhaps you should start by looking at issues with the actual hardware.

MSI, ASUS, XFX.... have all released 5700 XTs that all 3 have been selling for months that have been proven. To basically SUCK... unless you are lucky enough to get a newer stock batch, fixed it yourself, or are willing to send it in for RMA. (I bought a MSI Evoke... and after the good reporting done by Youtuber Steve, I made damn sure the card I picked up was recently produced stock)

That alone would easily account for a 3% higher return rate.

I admit my theory about value customers vs higher end customers is a theory... I pulled it out my ass. Just like the theory that bad software is to blame for 3% higher returns also originates form a posterior.

 

[ManofGod]

You really think HWUB (AKA Techspot) did a hit job on AMDs anything. Be serious, those guys, while fair, lean more in AMDs favor if anything.

IMO, what makes this issue really blow up, is all the endless denials and rationalizations, that make all these threads go on forever.

There are no denials but people who are seeking actual solutions as well as pointing out other possibilities. Do not pretend that you want AMD to succeed.

 

[Snowdog]

There are no denials but people who are seeking actual solutions as well as pointing out other possibilities. Do not pretend that you want AMD to succeed.

I want AMD to succeed. But I also want irrational AMD fanboys to STFU.

 

[Derangel]

The entire premise is that.... NV has a 1% return rate, and AMD has a 4% return rate. That is what spurred


I do own a 5700 XT... and have never encountered a black screen on anything. I might be inclined to believe this crap software is 100% to blame for returns narrative if I was a NV user.

The entire nartive that AMD owners are having black screens all over the place is BS. I know this cause I do not get black screens all over the place. lol My card runs fine... drivers are solid. I am not doubting there are not issues... all drivers have issues. But to say every AMD owner is having issues is stupid... we aren't.

I trust youtubers looking for clicks exactly zero... click bait headlines are great for getting the views and subs up. Considering the number you need before you get paid. I am hardly shocked to see them running popular hit jobs. Yes its cool right now to say AMDs drivers suck... I get it they redesigned things and added an overlay. I admit from reading reports it sounds like this latest redesign is a bit wonkier then the previous one... but I have little doubt after an update or two everything will be fine. When Nvidia releases a driver that causes popular games like Apex L, Witcher 3, Division 2 to all crash to desktop the world doesn't catch on fire. Wonder why that is.

I never said NV didn't sell more cards. But these same you tubers and satellite sites that have spent 6 months harping on specific cards like the MSI Evoke 5700 xt for having improperly installed ram thermal pads.... and the Asus strix 5700 XTs for having crap back plates that don't even contact any of the ram, and XFX thicc cards with a factory installed bios that lets the card get to 100 degrees before turning off fan stop. Now some of these same people that did good reporting on hardware issues are same now saying the extra 3% return rate has got to be software related. They are disingenuous view count chasers, nothing more. Some good reporting was done which clearly places the blame on at least 3 major AMD GPU vendors.. this software = returns narrative now detracts from their own good reporting.

"I don't have a problem and that means no one else should either". Anecdotal evidence doesn't mean jack shit. Absolutely no one has claimed that everyone has issues. If everyone had issues it probably wouldn't be a driver problem or it would be something AMD could find and fix a lot easier. You are trying to make up nonsense arguments to defend AMD. Stop it. Its enough of a major problem for AMD to publicly acknowledge it and pledge to find a solution. This isn't "clickbait" or anything else. It's a serious issue. Everyone running into problems isn't as stupid as you are implying. You aren't the only person in the world able to build or maintain systems. There is no anti-AMD conspiracy. THIS IS A MAJOR PROBLEM.

You know why a driver that has issues with a couple random games doesn't set the world on fire? BECAUSE ITS NOT THE SAME LEVEL OF PROBLEMS BEING SEEN ON NAVI CARDS. When Nvidia released GPU killing drivers that news went everywhere and everyone called them out on it. There was no coddling going on. Nvidia hasn't released a driver on the same level as what's being seen on Navi in a very long time and when they do it tends to be fixed and doesn't stick around for SEVEN MONTHS. If AMD had got their shit together right away no one would be talking about these issues anymore. However, they spent over half a year ignoring it and pretending everything was fine before getting around to acknowledging that something's wrong and needs to be dealt with (though, I'd imagine they were working on it internally during that time...At least I'd hope so). Stop pretending that Nvidia gets special treatment because people aren't making a huge fuss over a couple issues in a couple games. With Nvidia's sales volume driver fuck ups on this level would cause a massive shitstorm, or did you forget how the internet exploded when 2080 ti's started dying en masse?

The Evoke was fixed before launch so that can be ignored. And, no, every card having issues aren't the Strix or the Thicc. If that was the case that is what would be reported on. You making up conspiracy theory bullshit doesn't change reality. No one is "looking for clicks" or "running hit jobs". You would have to provide some ACTUAL FUCKING PROOF if you want to make that claim. And, no, repeating "but I don't have problems so that means it's perfect" does not count as proof. Nor does "everyone but me is stupid and can't use their computer".

This fanboy, company loyalty, bullshit people pull needs to stop. It doesn't matter what company it is, being "loyal" to them is stupid. No one cares about you, no company is going to thank you for being loyal. They care about your pocket book and nothing more. Calling a company out for fucking up won't make the execs cry. They can handle it.

 

[ChadD]

"I don't have a problem and that means no one else should either". Anecdotal evidence doesn't mean jack shit. Absolutely no one has claimed that everyone has issues. If everyone had issues it probably wouldn't be a driver problem or it would be something AMD could find and fix a lot easier. You are trying to make up nonsense arguments to defend AMD. Stop it. Its enough of a major problem for AMD to publicly acknowledge it and pledge to find a solution. This isn't "clickbait" or anything else. It's a serious issue. Everyone running into problems isn't as stupid as you are implying. You aren't the only person in the world able to build or maintain systems. There is no anti-AMD conspiracy. THIS IS A MAJOR PROBLEM.

You know why a driver that has issues with a couple random games doesn't set the world on fire? BECAUSE ITS NOT THE SAME LEVEL OF PROBLEMS BEING SEEN ON NAVI CARDS. When Nvidia released GPU killing drivers that news went everywhere and everyone called them out on it. There was no coddling going on. Nvidia hasn't released a driver on the same level as what's being seen on Navi in a very long time and when they do it tends to be fixed and doesn't stick around for SEVEN MONTHS. If AMD had got their shit together right away no one would be talking about these issues anymore. However, they spent over half a year ignoring it and pretending everything was fine before getting around to acknowledging that something's wrong and needs to be dealt with (though, I'd imagine they were working on it internally during that time...At least I'd hope so). Stop pretending that Nvidia gets special treatment because people aren't making a huge fuss over a couple issues in a couple games. With Nvidia's sales volume driver fuck ups on this level would cause a massive shitstorm, or did you forget how the internet exploded when 2080 ti's started dying en masse?

The Evoke was fixed before launch so that can be ignored. And, no, every card having issues aren't the Strix or the Thicc. If that was the case that is what would be reported on. You making up conspiracy theory bullshit doesn't change reality. No one is "looking for clicks" or "running hit jobs". You would have to provide some ACTUAL FUCKING PROOF if you want to make that claim. And, no, repeating "but I don't have problems so that means it's perfect" does not count as proof. Nor does "everyone but me is stupid and can't use their computer".

This fanboy, company loyalty, bullshit people pull needs to stop. It doesn't matter what company it is, being "loyal" to them is stupid. No one cares about you, no company is going to thank you for being loyal. They care about your pocket book and nothing more. Calling a company out for fucking up won't make the execs cry. They can handle it.

The evoke was not fixed before launch. It was fixed post launch. Asus has offered a free RMA for all Strix owners. The thicc... has multiple issues crap heat spreader installs and bad bioses, I don't feel like going hunting but their bad cooling was corrected in November as well and XFX is offering RMA on cards sold before Nov with the original design.

Gamers Nexus article right here from November 20th.
" MSI tells us that it is already shipping revised models, and may have been for a few weeks, but existing inventory will not have the fix. This is an unfortunate but typical part of improving products that are already in the wild. If you buy one now, there’s a chance you get old stock. In the event you’ve got an original model card with thermal issues, MSI tells us that it is offering free thermal pad replacement services. It is asking that users undergo the obvious time cost – likely a few weeks, unfortunately – to get the pads replaced professionally. "

On the Asus cards....
" As a result, all ROG Strix Radeon RX 5700-series graphics cards shipped from January 2020 forward feature new screws that increase cooler mounting pressure to 50-60 PSI, resulting in improved heat transfer from the GPU to the heatsink. "
Or in other words... any cards purchased or shipped before that date have crap mounting pressure.... and to go on....
" If you already have one of these cards and would like it modified to use the new mounting screws, please contact your nearest ASUS service center starting in March of 2020 "
So yes if you just bought a Asus 5700 XT card... and you noticed the date of manufacture was mid December. (which is pretty realistic) after seeing this from Asus when you go to their website. You tell me do you return that card or wait till march to send it away for a few weeks to get a couple screws replaced ?

Yes youtube kids... post videos to get clicks. I know its crazy right. The popular tech youtubers are mostly doom and gloom click bait video makers. Some of them like Gamers Nexus do some great reporting... but even they fall into the pile on videos at times. 3x as many people watch when there shitting on something then when they are giving glowing reviews. I mean gamers nexus said in their 2080 super review... who cares.... super fast cheaper then the ti but man its BORING. Titled, "NVIDIA RTX 2080 Super Review: We Get It, NVIDIA, You Can Make a 1080 Ti" and that is from probably the best technical youtube reviewer. Even they post what people want to hear.

I have never said AMDs drivers where perfect. I just doubt they are 10x worse then the competitions... as most are making out. NV has show stopping bugs in pretty popular games right now. No that doesn't excuse AMD... they have acknowledged some issues we all know this. But its not sky is falling time either these issues don't effect all cards/systems. I hope they work them out... just like I hope NV works out their crash to desktop issues with popular games. And you know they both will. But when we are talking about hardware returns... when we all know at least 3 major brands have cards in the channel right now that are iffy, and in some cases have actual active recalls. I say ya this narrative that software is the main driver on returns... is complete and utter hog wash. We can blame AMD perhaps on the hardware side as well... I mean Asus does, they say their cards with heat plates barely contacting chips was within spec, which if true is BS, but rings of Asus legal spin to me.

 

[bigdogchris]

I recall a year or two ago AMD saying they were taking a new approach and putting more effort into drivers. Apparently that didn't amount to much.

 

[ManofGod]

"I don't have a problem and that means no one else should either". Anecdotal evidence doesn't mean jack shit. Absolutely no one has claimed that everyone has issues. If everyone had issues it probably wouldn't be a driver problem or it would be something AMD could find and fix a lot easier. You are trying to make up nonsense arguments to defend AMD. Stop it. Its enough of a major problem for AMD to publicly acknowledge it and pledge to find a solution. This isn't "clickbait" or anything else. It's a serious issue. Everyone running into problems isn't as stupid as you are implying. You aren't the only person in the world able to build or maintain systems. There is no anti-AMD conspiracy. THIS IS A MAJOR PROBLEM.

You know why a driver that has issues with a couple random games doesn't set the world on fire? BECAUSE ITS NOT THE SAME LEVEL OF PROBLEMS BEING SEEN ON NAVI CARDS. When Nvidia released GPU killing drivers that news went everywhere and everyone called them out on it. There was no coddling going on. Nvidia hasn't released a driver on the same level as what's being seen on Navi in a very long time and when they do it tends to be fixed and doesn't stick around for SEVEN MONTHS. If AMD had got their shit together right away no one would be talking about these issues anymore. However, they spent over half a year ignoring it and pretending everything was fine before getting around to acknowledging that something's wrong and needs to be dealt with (though, I'd imagine they were working on it internally during that time...At least I'd hope so). Stop pretending that Nvidia gets special treatment because people aren't making a huge fuss over a couple issues in a couple games. With Nvidia's sales volume driver fuck ups on this level would cause a massive shitstorm, or did you forget how the internet exploded when 2080 ti's started dying en masse?

The Evoke was fixed before launch so that can be ignored. And, no, every card having issues aren't the Strix or the Thicc. If that was the case that is what would be reported on. You making up conspiracy theory bullshit doesn't change reality. No one is "looking for clicks" or "running hit jobs". You would have to provide some ACTUAL FUCKING PROOF if you want to make that claim. And, no, repeating "but I don't have problems so that means it's perfect" does not count as proof. Nor does "everyone but me is stupid and can't use their computer".

This fanboy, company loyalty, bullshit people pull needs to stop. It doesn't matter what company it is, being "loyal" to them is stupid. No one cares about you, no company is going to thank you for being loyal. They care about your pocket book and nothing more. Calling a company out for fucking up won't make the execs cry. They can handle it.

The problem is. at least in forums like this and other places. many, many folks speak as though everyone is having the issues and therefore, AMD drivers are the worst of the worst.

 

[sabrewolf732]

Meanwhile, I feel like my AMD Ryzen 1700X is the most unstable processor I've ever owned. So many weird problems, and it seems like no one knows why? I even bought a 3900X, but while in use, it just failed on me, and the entire system was hosed. Memtest complained about failing to initialize some of the CPU cores. I've never seen one fail this catastrophically. I returned that CPU, am back on my 1700X, but still feel like my system isn't entirely stable. Also, it seems like no one knows how to develop software to take advantage of this CPU. VirtualBox is so slow on AMD processors. I hate to say it, but my experience with my Ryzen makes me wish I had never switched over from Intel. There are a lot of companies out there these days that claim they know what they're doing, but unfortunately, the exact opposite is true. AMD might be one of these companies.

The "AMD" experience I've had lately certainly makes me quiver when I think about how badly they could mess up their graphics card division. If I ever build a new computer again, I'm going back to Intel, and I ditched Radeon for Nvidia long ago...

I'm sorry but this sounds like you have something else going on (PSU?), especially with the lack of people having issues with ryzen beyond the 1XXX early bios issues.

 

[sabrewolf732]

O

The entire premise is that.... NV has a 1% return rate, and AMD has a 4% return rate. That is what spurred


I do own a 5700 XT... and have never encountered a black screen on anything. I might be inclined to believe this crap software is 100% to blame for returns narrative if I was a NV user.

The entire nartive that AMD owners are having black screens all over the place is BS. I know this cause I do not get black screens all over the place. lol My card runs fine... drivers are solid. I am not doubting there are not issues... all drivers have issues. But to say every AMD owner is having issues is stupid... we aren't.

I trust youtubers looking for clicks exactly zero... click bait headlines are great for getting the views and subs up. Considering the number you need before you get paid. I am hardly shocked to see them running popular hit jobs. Yes its cool right now to say AMDs drivers suck... I get it they redesigned things and added an overlay. I admit from reading reports it sounds like this latest redesign is a bit wonkier then the previous one... but I have little doubt after an update or two everything will be fine. When Nvidia releases a driver that causes popular games like Apex L, Witcher 3, Division 2 to all crash to desktop the world doesn't catch on fire. Wonder why that is.

I never said NV didn't sell more cards. But these same you tubers and satellite sites that have spent 6 months harping on specific cards like the MSI Evoke 5700 xt for having improperly installed ram thermal pads.... and the Asus strix 5700 XTs for having crap back plates that don't even contact the card, and XFX thicc cards with a factory installed bios that lets the card get to 100 degrees before turning off fan stop. Now some of these same people that did good reporting on hardware issues are same now saying the extra 3% return rate has got to be software related. They are disingenuous view count chasers, nothing more. Some good reporting was done which clearly places the blame on at least 3 major AMD GPU vendors.. this software = returns narrative now detracts from their own good reporting.

I also own a 5700xt on water. I had a ton of black screen and crashing issues up until recently when I reinstalled windows and installed the most recent february drivers. I like my 5700xt a ton, it gives ridiculous performance for the $ I paid for it ($350) but I wouldn't suggest it to a novice user or someone that does not like to tinker.

 

[ChadD]

I also own a 5700xt on water. I had a ton of black screen and crashing issues up until recently when I reinstalled windows and installed the most recent february drivers. I like my 5700xt a ton, it gives ridiculous performance for the $ I paid for it ($350) but I wouldn't suggest it to a novice user or someone that does not like to tinker.

Fair... but frankly I'm not sure I would suggest a upper class mid range and up GPU of any stripe to novice users. They are going to require more driver updates... better PC setups with cooling and power requirements ect ect. I would never suggest someone who bought a dell or something buy a 220 watt GPU. And if someone is building their first PC and looking to put a 8+8 pin GPU in their system I would hope they have done some good research into PSU ect.

Just saying... and I do hear you. AMDs black screen thing has been real... just seems over blown at this point.

 

[DrDoU]

Black screens my evga 970 does this with the lastest drivers. Going to drop back 1 version as there was not this problem. Both drivers for either card have there fair share of problems.

 

[Rizen]

Kinda wish Kyle was still around with HardOCP to investigate this type of stuff.

 

[ChadD]

Black screens my evga 970 does this with the lastest drivers. Going to drop back 1 version as there was not this problem. Both drivers for either card have there fair share of problems.

I believe Nvidia fingered Microsoft for a bunch of issues not long ago with windows updates. Can't remember which game it was but it was having black screen problems on NV that got fixed... then came back with a windows update.

Seems to me 3/4 of the issues with any of the overlay stuff ends up being at least partly Microsofts fault.

 

[sabrewolf732]

I believe Nvidia fingered Microsoft for a bunch of issues not long ago with windows updates. Can't remember which game it was but it was having black screen problems on NV that got fixed... then came back with a windows update.

Seems to me 3/4 of the issues with any of the overlay stuff ends up being at least partly Microsofts fault.

I agree, it seems windows 10 updates have not been kind to stability. I would also guess that Nvidia can pull more weight against Microsoft than AMD can.

 

[DukenukemX]

The thing about all this AMD drivers are trash crap... is 99% of people saying it don't even own a AMD card.

Here is the truth of the matter... GPU game drivers suck all round. The level of suck between AMD and NV isn't really all that different. Just see saws back and forth.

This right here is so true. I can say for a fact AMD Windows drivers suck because I use AMD GPU's. Their OpenGL performance is awful and you see this in emulators and even Minecraft with Ray-Tracing addon. Thankfully emulators are starting to use Vulkan, but Minecraft will always be OpenGL. AMD OpenGL drivers on Linux are a different story as the performance is amazingly better. Also AMD drivers don't like to remember my fan settings and resets it every time I turn on my PC.

Nvidia drivers are also shit, because Nvidia includes crap with their drivers that can actually interfere with some applications and I have to manually force close them to get the app working right. Sometimes their latest drivers can break things really badly and often I have to install an older driver to fix it. If you use an older Nvidia GPU on Linux then good luck because those older drivers won't install on newer Linux distros and Nouveau does work but is often broken for a lot of games because Nvidia puts like zero effort into these open source drivers.

AMD and Nvidia both make shitty drivers and both deserve shit for it. If their drivers suck so much then both need to open source their drivers so that others can help fix their screw ups. On Linux you'll find that AMD and Intel drivers are amazingly good because both are open source. Valve actually made Vulkan drivers for Intel which also created RADV for AMD cards as well. Valve also made the ACO compiler to replace LLVM to boost performance for AMD cards. Red Hat often donates code for GPU drivers. AMD and Nvidia need to realize that if they can't write good drivers then open sourcing them would be the best option.

 

[Rizen]

This right here is so true. I can say for a fact AMD Windows drivers suck because I use AMD GPU's. Their OpenGL performance is awful and you see this in emulators and even Minecraft with Ray-Tracing addon. Thankfully emulators are starting to use Vulkan, but Minecraft will always be OpenGL. AMD OpenGL drivers on Linux are a different story as the performance is amazingly better. Also AMD drivers don't like to remember my fan settings and resets it every time I turn on my PC.

Nvidia drivers are also shit, because Nvidia includes crap with their drivers that can actually interfere with some applications and I have to manually force close them to get the app working right. Sometimes their latest drivers can break things really badly and often I have to install an older driver to fix it. If you use an older Nvidia GPU on Linux then good luck because those older drivers won't install on newer Linux distros and Nouveau does work but is often broken for a lot of games because Nvidia puts like zero effort into these open source drivers.

AMD and Nvidia both make shitty drivers and both deserve shit for it. If their drivers suck so much then both need to open source their drivers so that others can help fix their screw ups. On Linux you'll find that AMD and Intel drivers are amazingly good because both are open source. Valve actually made Vulkan drivers for Intel which also created RADV for AMD cards as well. Valve also made the ACO compiler to replace LLVM to boost performance for AMD cards. Red Hat often donates code for GPU drivers. AMD and Nvidia need to realize that if they can't write good drivers then open sourcing them would be the best option.

The specific problems in question here are isolated to the RDNA cards, not your Vega 56 or the Polaris GPUs.

I haven't had a single issue with my NVIDIA cards across multiple systems and generations. My AMD cards have also been pretty good, but only in single GPU. Dual GPU was always a mess. Either way, it definitely seems like problems with the RDNA cards are worse than prior gens at this time. I'd be curious to know why.

 

[IdiotInCharge]

Nvidia drivers are also shit, because Nvidia includes crap with their drivers that can actually interfere with some applications and I have to manually force close them to get the app working right.

Examples? Asking honestly. I only install the driver, PhysX when needed, and Geforce Experience, which I mostly don't use. My biggest peave is the audio drivers which take over the primary audio device. I'd like to see a higher-level toggle to turn that off completely.

Generally there's not a lot of 'Nvidia' stuff running to kill.

Sometimes their latest drivers can break things really badly and often I have to install an older driver to fix it.

This is the normal troubleshooting procedure, and at best indicates some level of incompatibility. That could be a bug in the newer drivers, absolutely, but could also be a fix in the drivers that exposes a bug somewhere else, or even a previously undetected hardware instability.

If you use an older Nvidia GPU on Linux then good luck because those older drivers won't install on newer Linux distros and Nouveau does work but is often broken for a lot of games because Nvidia puts like zero effort into these open source drivers.

Well, Nvidia has decided -- as is quite their right -- not to open up their graphics technology for Nouveau support. I also find that somewhat frustrating, even though I haven't run into a related issue myself. Nvidia is also not responsible for GPUs that they have decided to no longer support.

Perhaps it would be reasonable for them to open up their deprecated technology for open source support.

AMD and Nvidia need to realize that if they can't write good drivers then open sourcing them would be the best option.

AMD is lucky that they're open source stance has resulted in outsiders contributing to their Linux drivers in such a significant way -- however, Nvidia's drivers have been the standard on Linux for a long, long time.

Obviously they're more focused on the products that they're still selling, of course.

 

[DrDoU]

my gtx 970 just did its last black screen. it has gone to gpu heaven. ordered a rx 5600xt and should be here tuesday. if it is as bad as reviewers say it is i will retrn it and go nvidia

 

[Algrim]

Nvidia drivers are also shit, because Nvidia includes crap with their drivers that can actually interfere with some applications and I have to manually force close them to get the app working right. Sometimes their latest drivers can break things really badly and often I have to install an older driver to fix it. If you use an older Nvidia GPU on Linux then good luck because those older drivers won't install on newer Linux distros and Nouveau does work but is often broken for a lot of games because Nvidia puts like zero effort into these open source drivers.

The non-free nVidia drivers are working perfectly for me on Debian 10.

 

[DukenukemX]

The specific problems in question here are isolated to the RDNA cards, not your Vega 56 or the Polaris GPUs.

As far as I know this also effects Vega cards, including Radeon 7.

I haven't had a single issue with my NVIDIA cards across multiple systems and generations. My AMD cards have also been pretty good, but only in single GPU. Dual GPU was always a mess. Either way, it definitely seems like problems with the RDNA cards are worse than prior gens at this time. I'd be curious to know why.

There's a reason why SLI and CrossFire are dead.

 

[DukenukemX]

Examples? Asking honestly. I only install the driver, PhysX when needed, and Geforce Experience, which I mostly don't use. My biggest peave is the audio drivers which take over the primary audio device. I'd like to see a higher-level toggle to turn that off completely.

Generally there's not a lot of 'Nvidia' stuff running to kill.

My sister's computer that I built her has a 6600K with a 970 and there was an issue with DualShock 4 working on that PC. The DS4WIndows app wouldn't work unless something was done with one of the Nvidia background apps. I just uninstalled a bunch of that crap and that worked. Turns out that extra software that comes with Nvidia drivers can interfere with some apps, and often when there's a problem I read that people recommend to kill the process.

Well, Nvidia has decided -- as is quite their right -- not to open up their graphics technology for Nouveau support. I also find that somewhat frustrating, even though I haven't run into a related issue myself. Nvidia is also not responsible for GPUs that they have decided to no longer support.

Perhaps it would be reasonable for them to open up their deprecated technology for open source support.

AMD did not open source their drivers at all. They paid some people to work on new drivers and that exploded into a far better working driver. RadeonSi was so good that AMD's proprietary drivers for Linux are now actually based on RadeonSi. To make matters worse AMD didn't open source their Vulkan driver, which pissed off the community. So the community took the Vulkan driver that Valve made for Intel GPU's and forked it to make RADV. Overtime RADV became faster and more compatible than AMD's closed source driver. AMD did eventually release AMDVLK which is based on their proprietary Vulkan driver but nobody touches it and it's slower than RADV. Intel also pays employees to work on the Linux open source drivers as well, but obviously takes contributions from others like Valve.

Once a GPU has reached legacy at least AMD and Intel still have updated and working drivers, but Nvidia gets problematic because Nouveau is your only option. One that isn't funded or supported by Nvidia what so ever. There are ways to hack older Nvidia drivers to work on newer distros but the results aren't pretty. Some games work on Nvidia binary drivers and some don't, but if I switch to Nouveau there are some games that do work that didn't with Nvidia binary drivers and some that don't that did work on the binary drivers.

AMD is lucky that they're open source stance has resulted in outsiders contributing to their Linux drivers in such a significant way -- however, Nvidia's drivers have been the standard on Linux for a long, long time.

Obviously they're more focused on the products that they're still selling, of course.

It isn't luck when AMD pays people to work on them. Valve and Red Hat donate free code, and I'm sure others. Nvidia drivers are the standard but that isn't a good thing when Nvidia does things that break the OpenGL standard. AMD OpenGL drivers on Windows are more strict to follow the standard while Nvidia sometimes isn't, but because Nvidia is far more popular then the mistake becomes the standard. This is why Minecraft Ray-Tracing wasn't working on AMD for a while because of a quirk that Nvidia drivers that isn't part of the OpenGL standard. It didn't work on Linux open source drivers either for the same reasons.

 

[IdiotInCharge]

Thanks for the added specificity!

 

[Absalom]

...but Minecraft will always be OpenGL.

Not entirely true. There are two forks of Minecraft, the original Java+OpenGL based one and the Windows 10 version.The latter exists due to Microsoft's efforts. The Windows 10 version of Minecraft uses DirectX exclusively.

That said, the Java based one has the most mods and has obviously been around the longest. But the choice of building the game on Java has been questionable since the beginning. Java isn't the best choice when performance matters, OpenGL driver performance notwithstanding.

Both versions have ray traced implementations. The Java one has a shader based (i.e. path-tracing) mod. Considering it doesn't require RT hardware at all, it's quite the bang for your buck. The Windows 10 version is getting ray tracing this year and is being co-developed by Mojang and Nvidia. It will be using DXR for rendering, so it will most likely perform great on an RTX gpu for now.

I could see the Java version of Minecraft fading away, but I've been saying this for years. At least Mojang updates both periodically.

 

[DukenukemX]

Not entirely true. There are two forks of Minecraft, the original Java+OpenGL based one and the Windows 10 version.The latter exists due to Microsoft's efforts. The Windows 10 version of Minecraft uses DirectX exclusively.

That one is useless because you can't install mods. Unless that's changed since I last checked?

Both versions have ray traced implementations. The Java one has a shader based (i.e. path-tracing) mod. Considering it doesn't require RT hardware at all, it's quite the bang for your buck. The Windows 10 version is getting ray tracing this year and is being co-developed by Mojang and Nvidia. It will be using DXR for rendering, so it will most likely perform great on an RTX gpu for now.

Even less of a reason to use the Windows 10 version. Also I can't run it on Linux.

I could see the Java version of Minecraft fading away, but I've been saying this for years. At least Mojang updates both periodically.

That would piss off Mac and Linux users.

 

[Absalom]

That one is useless because you can't install mods. Unless that's changed since I last checked?

Nah, the Win10 version can be modded. It's just locked down more than the Java version (the Java version has been deobfuscated to the point that it might as well be open sourced). Gotta keep the pedos off the servers with kids after all.

But, yeah, the Win10 version will never be as 'moddable'. But it's not going away anytime soon either. Not when you have MS backing it with piles of cash and the various console versions out there offering cross-platform play with it. MS would probably like to see the Java version go away, but the commmunity and possibly Mojang will see that the Java version sticks around.