Gamers are ditching Radeon graphics cards over driver issues

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DukenukemX

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Think your right. AMD seems to be much more worried about spinning fans up when needed the last couple generations. And ya no way 100c+ is good for anything. Highest I have noticed mine get was 95/6 or so... but at that point the fans where at 2800 rpm which is more then a bit loud. :) Since then though I have tuned my rear out take fan and I swapped the 2 120mm top fans I had with a couple 140s I had around. Have noticed the junction sits more around mid-high 80s now which makes me feel a lot better. Made things a bit quieter as well... the difference between 2200 rpm and 2800 rpm on those GPU fans is pretty huge.

I'm not on my gaming machine right now... but if I'm browsing on it, or doing pretty much anything non game related the fans shut off... so I think it sits around 45 degrees or something. I'm sure I could get it down by disabling fan shutoff and spinning the fans at 1000 rpm or something, but its nice when I'm not gaming that the system is very quite. No hiding when I stop doing things I should be doing to fire up a game though. :) I played a round of dota the other day... and I don't think my 5700 fans spun over 1000 rpm the entire match.
I was shocked to see the fan would never go above 48% even when everything was above 85C, which suggests AMD is more concerned about acoustics. After I put the thermal paste the fan would run 10% lower which made for a better experience. Here you can see my Vega 56 running 33C while using Fixfox with 20+ tabs open. Again, I'm not experiencing the black screen issue but maybe that's because my temp doesn't get that high.

There was a time when motherboard manfacturers like MSI and Asus wouldn't have sufficient VRM's or VRM cooling for AMD FX motherboards and like any mosfet it shuts off to prevent damage and of course the system crashes. This maybe the issue people are expriecing and not a driver issue? Doesn't make AMD sound any better honestly.

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Dayaks

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I've always used the formula:
PSUwatt X efficiency X .75, so a 750w Platinum rated PSU has a usable max in my book of 450w, I mean sure you can draw more than that but this way you have a bit of a buffer and things should be well with in the max efficiency zone and plenty safe if the PSU has a bad capacitor or 2 that are running slightly below spec. Does that mean I have to spend an extra $20 on a PSU sure, but it also means I have lots of head room if things change and nothing is running too hot.
Exactly. Also the 220W or whatever TDP is an average. I like to have a little extra capacity / capacitor to absorb the spikes.

We also OC here.. my 250W 2080ti pulls 400W after I am done tweaking/modding.
 

ChadD

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I was shocked to see the fan would never go above 48% even when everything was above 85C, which suggests AMD is more concerned about acoustics. After I put the thermal paste the fan would run 10% lower which made for a better experience. Here you can see my Vega 56 running 33C while using Fixfox with 20+ tabs open. Again, I'm not experiencing the black screen issue but maybe that's because my temp doesn't get that high.

There was a time when motherboard manfacturers like MSI and Asus wouldn't have sufficient VRM's or VRM cooling for AMD FX motherboards and like any mosfet it shuts off to prevent damage and of course the system crashes. This maybe the issue people are expriecing and not a driver issue? Doesn't make AMD sound any better honestly.

View attachment 223434
Took a couple screens for a 5700 XT comparison. I have a good amount of cooling in my case... rear 120, top 2x140... front 2 120s pulling through my radiator. Anyway temps are pretty similer browsing... higher but my fan stop is on up till 48 degrees or so. I also posted one after 3 runs of the ACO bench at ultra settings. Stays fairly cool junction only got up to 82 but the fans where in full take off mode at 2600. I know the card I have has a "silent" bios I am not running I imagine that bios would be pushing in my case... I can only imagine in a case with only one fan or something.
 

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5150Joker

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Lol some AMD fanboy tried making a thread to point out how great Navi is and that the problems are blown out of proportion claiming what you should be doing is a bios update and underclocking your gpu (😂😂😂😂) because in reality, it's all pebkac: https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/f3vulh
Too bad it backfired LMAO! Looks like a thread someone from here would post to defend their favorite brand as if it's their religious duty. 🤣🤣🤣
 

Ready4Dis

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To add, while it wouldn't be normal for what is commonly understood as a 'core' temperature, remember that temperature is an energy density measurement. For something other than a processor core, over 100c could be fine. 100c only seems (to me) to be an important 'max' temperature because it's the boiling point of water, but there's no water in a processor core, thus nothing to boil.

Other than the fluid used in heatpipes, temperature measurements may easily exceed 100c without issue.
I buy microprocessors from atmel (recently bought out my microchip) that are rated up to 125C. 100C is not uncommon for operating ICs. Matter of fact, it's quite a bit less than many chips are rated. You can get more extreme chips as well but their 125C are only a few cents more than their norm 85C rated chips and gives me piece of mind for something that could be in an engine bay and see pretty high temps. Those are like $4 chips at much higher nanometer processes. I don't doubt AMD can safely hit 100C junction temperatures and not worry. It's just everyone is so used to seeing the artificial "CPU" temperature that seeing such high #'s freaks them out (understandably since most haven't been exposed to it before).
 

SmokeRngs

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Anyone unhappy with their 5700 XT can sell the "defective" card to me. Looking for 3 of em if the price is right. ;)
No, no, no. They can give them to me since they think they are horrible cards. I need at least two. Once I get my cards then you can start buying the remainder. Since I've practically never had problems with ATI/AMD cards it's imperative that those with cards they don't want need to send them my way just so they can "prove" to me that AMD cards are terrible.
 

Dayaks

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Lol some AMD fanboy tried making a thread to point out how great Navi is and that the problems are blown out of proportion claiming what you should be doing is a bios update and underclocking your gpu (😂😂😂😂) because in reality, it's all pebkac: https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/f3vulh


Too bad it backfired LMAO! Looks like a thread someone from here would post to defend their favorite brand as if it's their religious duty. 🤣🤣🤣
Did he kick off his post saying BFV sometimes works and he underclocks like 400Mhz? Can’t imagine why that thread went downhill. lol

It’s a god damned video card. You should be able to just slap it in and play games.
 
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tangoseal

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Hopefully they can get it fixed before BigNavi. That would be a big dark cloud hanging over their heads if that comes out and the issues are still present. At the very least, they need to deal with the black screen issue.
I hope so. I would like to give Big Navi a go personally in my rig but I am NOT going to be a first drop adopter this time.
 

5150Joker

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Did he kick off his post saying BFV sometimes works and he underclocks like 400Mhz? Can’t imagine why that thread went downhill. lol

It’s a god damned video card. You should be able to just slap it in and play games.
LOL yeah that's why I found it so funny. He claimed to be problem free then the next sentence he admits he had issues with the latest 2020 drivers and that BFV didn't work right. He then goes on to say he recommends massively underclocking the GPUs because according to him (in a later reply he made in the thread) ASUS, MSI etc don't know what they're doing and don't do validation testing at the OC settings they sell the Navi cards at LMAO!!!! Dude some of these hardcore AMD fanboys are worse than political hacks.
 

DukenukemX

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Took a couple screens for a 5700 XT comparison. I have a good amount of cooling in my case... rear 120, top 2x140... front 2 120s pulling through my radiator. Anyway temps are pretty similer browsing... higher but my fan stop is on up till 48 degrees or so. I also posted one after 3 runs of the ACO bench at ultra settings. Stays fairly cool junction only got up to 82 but the fans where in full take off mode at 2600. I know the card I have has a "silent" bios I am not running I imagine that bios would be pushing in my case... I can only imagine in a case with only one fan or something.
The hotspot temp isn't the worst. Temps could be the cause but... my experience was different. There's this thread about this issue and many different AMD GPU's on both Intel and AMD CPU's with this issue. I just think people have unstable PC's and they don't want to admit it. The bigger issue for me was that my ram was the cause of the problem but none of the traditional memory tests show there was an issue. Maybe DDR4 is able to hide issues better than DDR3?
 

IcePickFreak

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I'm shocked that yet another GPU thread turned into yet another "Us vs Them" thread. :rolleyes:

Hopefully AMD can get a handle on this before it ruins their chance at gaining some market share since it'll be a destructive cycle if they start to lose some instead.
 

Lumpus

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I only get a black screen on my new Gigabyte RX 5700XT when playing Space Engineers. In this instance, it's commonly believed to be a Keen Software issue, since it also happens with GeForce cards too. The 'fix' is to turn grass and trees to off.
 

GSDragoon

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I just think people have unstable PC's and they don't want to admit it.
This. There's so many people running all sorts of overlays, bios mods, fan controls, voltage and clock modifications, background services, RGB, etc. Some of it is not the user's fault. For example, I installed software for a wireless media keyboard from Logitech and it installed a service with a desktop overlay. Uninstalled that crap immediately. Not worth the ability to change the touchpad speed. Discord is another big one. It's a bloated PITA. Everyone and their grandma is running an embedded browser process in their application. This is no different than the medical industry where everyone's on bunch of different drugs. There's so many variables and moving pieces, it's hard to figure out where the problem is. There's no way to test the interactions between all the different crap involved.

The other big factor is people at AMD (probably this guy) are prioritizing new features and bloat over product stability and quality.
 

Derangel

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This. There's so many people running all sorts of overlays, bios mods, fan controls, voltage and clock modifications, background services, RGB, etc. Some of it is not the user's fault. For example, I installed software for a wireless media keyboard from Logitech and it installed a service with a desktop overlay. Uninstalled that crap immediately. Not worth the ability to change the touchpad speed. Discord is another big one. It's a bloated PITA. Everyone and their grandma is running an embedded browser process in their application. This is no different than the medical industry where everyone's on bunch of different drugs. There's so many variables and moving pieces, it's hard to figure out where the problem is. There's no way to test the interactions between all the different crap involved.

The other big factor is people at AMD (probably this guy) are prioritizing new features and bloat over product stability and quality.
The vast majority of people buying these cards wouldn't even know how to update a BIOS, much less mod one. Hardware enthusiasts aren't the only people buying GPUs.
 

blackmomba

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The hotspot temp isn't the worst. Temps could be the cause but... my experience was different. There's this thread about this issue and many different AMD GPU's on both Intel and AMD CPU's with this issue. I just think people have unstable PC's and they don't want to admit it. The bigger issue for me was that my ram was the cause of the problem but none of the traditional memory tests show there was an issue. Maybe DDR4 is able to hide issues better than DDR3?
Maybe take a backseat on this one here Duke and spend some more time reading because the problem can happen at the desktop of a fresh Windows install with everything at stock or even underclocked. Myself and many others have replaced RAM, motherboards, CPUs and power supplies all to have the machine black screen exactly the same way it did before, again, at the desktop, where properly configured GPUs will sit between 30-40 C, hot spot my balls.
 

DogsofJune

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The hotspot temp isn't the worst. Temps could be the cause but... my experience was different. There's this thread about this issue and many different AMD GPU's on both Intel and AMD CPU's with this issue. I just think people have unstable PC's and they don't want to admit it. The bigger issue for me was that my ram was the cause of the problem but none of the traditional memory tests show there was an issue. Maybe DDR4 is able to hide issues better than DDR3?
In my case the 5700xt was the culprit for instability
 

ChadD

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The vast majority of people buying these cards wouldn't even know how to update a BIOS, much less mod one. Hardware enthusiasts aren't the only people buying GPUs.
That is part of the problem. Newer GPUs (amd and nv) are temperamental. I am not saying there are not some issues with AMDs current driver.... but they don't seem to effect everyone, and those that seem to be unaffected tend to be folks with over kill PSU units and over kill cooling. The PSU companies all recommend using 2 cables to cards with 8+8 or 8+6, the GPU manufacturers all vary in their recommended PSU, everywhere from 600 to 750 on 5700 XTs... the difference seems to stem from factory over clocks. Still it wouldn't surprise me if a few people have bought nice factory over clocked cards with power supplies that are probably less then they should really be running. Budget gamers tend to buy what is on sale... as an example I bougth a MSI evoke... great card, but I bought it cause it was $100 cheaper then every other 5700 XT. I have a good venting, and a nice higher end gold PSU... but I have no doubt a lot of people with crappier shit jumped at the same deal.

Seems like all this stuff is a bit of column A a little of column B to me... ya AMD needs to work on their driver it seems their latest revision has introduced some bugs, the situation seems to be made worse by a lot of seemingly temperamental less then 100% stable installs.

As I said before given AMDs "budget" market placement. It wouldn't shock me that a good number of people going AMD are also going with the budget PSUs, the Budget motherboard, the Budget Ram... probably even the budget case that runs 10 degrees hotter then the better well vented cases. NV right now sort of has the money isn't an object crowed... which I have to assume also translates to their cooling and power setups. So if you told me AMDs return rate is 4% and Nvidias is 1%... I would say ya sounds about right. One is being sold to budget builders one isn't.
 

IdiotInCharge

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As I said before given AMDs "budget" market placement. It wouldn't shock me that a good number of people going AMD are also going with the budget PSUs, the Budget motherboard, the Budget Ram... probably even the budget case that runs 10 degrees hotter then the better well vented cases. NV right now sort of has the money isn't an object crowed... which I have to assume also translates to their cooling and power setups. So if you told me AMDs return rate is 4% and Nvidias is 1%... I would say ya sounds about right. One is being sold to budget builders one isn't.
Didn't want to touch on this earlier when the idea popped up, but yeah, I can see this mindset because I would apply it myself. Perhaps not to a fault as you're suggesting (and I find convincing), but it's definitely relatable.
 

ChadD

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Didn't want to touch on this earlier when the idea popped up, but yeah, I can see this mindset because I would apply it myself. Perhaps not to a fault as you're suggesting (and I find convincing), but it's definitely relatable.
Ya not to say AMDs driver can't be better it can... so can NVs. Neither are perfect.

But ya 1 return in 100 cards for Nvidia... vs 4 returns in 100 for AMD. Sounds exactly right considering the markets both are selling to. If your going to drop $100+ more on your GPU no doubt your going to drop 20-50 more on your PSU and your not likely recycling your 5 year old case and going into your fan collection box for exhaust fans. :) That for every 100 cards 3 more people return a AMD card doesn't shock me considering how much more likely the AMD cards are going into partial upgrades, and builds trying to hit much tighter budgets.

I hope AMD does improve their driver... I am just not convinced 3% extra in returns has much to do with software.
 

Imhotep

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The fix for navi seems to be 19.10.2 drivers. Its likely that new features and overlay is fucking things up for some. its also a good idea to reinstall all the drivers after windows updates. Install radeon drivers last.on new builds and fresh windows installs.
 

ManofGod

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The fix for navi seems to be 19.10.2 drivers. Its likely that new features and overlay is fucking things up for some. its also a good idea to reinstall all the drivers after windows updates. Install radeon drivers last.on new builds and fresh windows installs.
Well, this is another fix for those who are having problems, thanks.
 

Snowdog

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I’d imagine people on this forum would be more interested in finding fixes for any problems they’re having instead of giving up and selling the card.
And if they are in the return window, why sell if they can return it for a full refund.

Personally I try to hammer stuff in the return window, and make a decision before it expires.
 

Lakados

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I’d imagine people on this forum would be more interested in finding fixes for any problems they’re having instead of giving up and selling the card.
Normally I would say yes but in some cases it’s not worth the effort, I’m getting old and cranky. I don’t want to spend my few free hours troubleshooting a problem I just want to play my game drink a beer and take a nap.
 

IKV1476

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Everyone with this problem do an internet search for "Nvidia 9600 gt black screen" and see if you can find a solution. This was around 10 or so years ago.
There are a lot of hits from a quick search.

I had a 9600 gt that had a black screen problem and I remember lowering the memory and gpu clocks a little bit from researching at the time. I had read speculation that there was a voltage issue and over current protection kicking in and the card would push for too much voltage and it would black screen. It was a factory overclocked card that I reduced the clocks to be "normal".
I only recall ever having black screens while gaming or "3d" type applications when the card was under load.
For my case it pretty much stopped the black screening.
 

techie81

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Never notice anyone doing that. However, I have noticed when you share that it is working for you, without issue, and you share setup, opposing fans bash and claim this is what you said.
This situation really reminds me of a similar situation to when many people say they are having issues with windows 10 and then a few people come into the thread and claim that it is impossible, since its working for them.

As far as radeon drivers, I have owned many, many, many AMD cards and I have always had issues with their drivers.
 

JMCB

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7950 GT - Drivers were trash
8800 GT - Drivers worked well
HD 4870 - Drivers worked well
HD 4870 - Drivers worked well
HD 5870 - Drivers worked well
HD 6970 - Drivers were trash
HD 6990 - Drivers were abysmal
HD 7970 - Drivers worked well
R9 290x - Owned this graphics card more than any other card. Drivers were all over the place from a dumpster fire to spectacular.
1080 Ti - Drivers were phenomenal.
2080 Ti - Drivers are phenomenal. My main rig loves me.
5700 XT - As I mentioned earlier, the thing just black screens all the time, and at the most inopportune times. What I didn’t mention earlier in a previous post was my brother was playing a game on MtG Arena, I recommended he not play it on that PC, and he lost a game because of the black screen in a tournament he had to earn entry to.

Why did I post this? Well I’ve had almost two decades of graphic cards over the years, and if you saw a familiar one you also had, you may have had a different experience. I was biased towards AMD mainly because of the price to performance, but once and awhile the cards would make you regret that decision. But those are my experiences. Some people never saw the same things I did.
 
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