Gamer Thwarts Gunman's Attempt To Steal CoD: MW 3

compudocs

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yes its stupid but, and i would never suggest doing this especially for a $60 video game, someone that is pointing a gun at you within arms reach even with his finger on the trigger can not discharge that weapon in the time it would take you to grab the barrel and step out of the way.

Wow, you've been watching too many Jackie Chan movies there kiddo'. Unless you are a top notch martial artist, Special Forces ( or similar ) or maybe a boxxer, thinking like that will get you killed. I bet I could stand in front of you with an airsoft pressed to your head and if you tried that you'd have a nice welt on your forehead and some BS excuse of how the sun was in your eyes or how no one said "Go".

This kid was an idiot, lets say the gunman had no intention of shooting him over the game in the first place. The gun was indeed real and during the struggle the gunman might have accidently ended the kids life.

If you ask me, the best case scenario would have been for the kid to get shot in the struggle, lose the game anyways and for the gunman to get away. Now idiots that think they can take on an armed assailant are going to be more likely to try and they will die.

Life is not a video game you idiots, you get one life and any self deffence instructor will tell you DO NOT TRY TO DISARM AN ARMED ASSAILANT IF THEY WANT YOUR MONEY! Give them your money, your watch and your stupid ass game that you can replace because " He/She loved His/Her games more than life itself" does not look god on a tombstone.
 

compudocs

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Don't defend yourself = Give game over, other guy shoots you dead anyway. Or he decides to let you live.

Defend yourself = may die anyway, but at least you gave it a shot (pun intended).

Your SN suits you. A thief wants your goods and only your goods. A killer wants your life first then your goods because it's easier to take shit from a dead person if thats who you are.

The best way to improve your odds against an armed robber is to give them what they want without question as quickly as possible because the more you try to stall them, confuse them or disarm them the more frustrated and potentially lethal they become. And for those of you that think a stoned, armed assailant would be easier to take down, just remember that they just want to get high again and the drugs have clouded their already damaged decision making abilities so fucking with these people is an even worse idea because they are more likely to shoot/stab you if they don't get what they want quick so that can get high again.

The only thing anyone SHOULD do when faced with an armed assailant is try to quickly remember any distinct facial markings or tattoos, eye color, accent, rough height and body build so the police can actually have a good chance of catching them.
 

compudocs

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DoubleTap

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This summer I had a seasonal job as a conservation officer, and during the training there was a small module on what to do if someone pulls a gun on you. The instructors said that whoever acts first has a small timing advantage due to the time it takes the other person to react. If the assailant is within a few steps of you, get off the line of attack (sidestep) and attack inside, so that the guy's arm and weapon are to the outside. Do something distracting like knee him in the groin or headbutt him in the face and then grab the weapon and twist it AWAY from you so that it jams his wrist and he has to let it go. Then throw the gun away, don't shoot him with it because it might be clogged and blow up in your face. We also practiced with longer weapons like a shotgun, but honestly I forget if it was the same process or not, it has been a while and the job is done for the season anyway.

Everything I described above is dependant on the guy being really close to you. If he isn't a big movie cliche and actually leaves reaction distance between you and him, you are in one tough spot. Maybe try holding out the object he is trying to steal in your hand so he has to come in and grab it, then make your move. If he stays put and says to throw it then you know he isn't an idiot and should probably do what he wants.

Again, not an expert but it seemed to work pretty well in the training.

People who actually know how to use a firearm know that inside of maybe 6-8 feet, you may not be able to shoot someone before they turn the tables on you.

Masad Ayoob regularly demonstrates that a young man can cover 20 feet of distance and deliver a fatal knife wound before most people can draw and fire their weapon. He defends police officers in various cases but one of the classic scenarios is the cops shooting a guy with a knife from 10 or 15 feet away - most people think that is unjustifiable but when you understand everything in play, you realize that this is inside the reaction time of most people.

TV is great for showing people holding a gun at arms length and getting in someones face for dramatic effect, but in reality, you should hold the weapon low and close to your body with the weapon side turned slightly away from the person you are covering. You can use your weak hand to defend / deflect any advancement while keeping the firearm out of reach.


WTF are you talking about? Odds? What Odds? Can you point me to those? Are they updated regularly? You want to play chance and hope that the person who just pulled a gun on you will be merciful enough to let you live so you can identify them later to police? Go ahead, I'd rather not play a game where the other guy has 100% control over the "odds" that I'll live to see another day.

There are wolves, sheep, and sheepdogs. About the only thing that pisses off a sheepdog as much as watching the wolves get one of the sheep, is listening to the sheep bitch about how the sheepdogs deal with the wolves.

Fact.
 

Shalafi

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Your SN suits you. A thief wants your goods and only your goods. A killer wants your life first then your goods because it's easier to take shit from a dead person if thats who you are.

The best way to improve your odds against an armed robber is to give them what they want without question as quickly as possible because the more you try to stall them, confuse them or disarm them the more frustrated and potentially lethal they become. And for those of you that think a stoned, armed assailant would be easier to take down, just remember that they just want to get high again and the drugs have clouded their already damaged decision making abilities so fucking with these people is an even worse idea because they are more likely to shoot/stab you if they don't get what they want quick so that can get high again.

The only thing anyone SHOULD do when faced with an armed assailant is try to quickly remember any distinct facial markings or tattoos, eye color, accent, rough height and body build so the police can actually have a good chance of catching them.

Like I said, if you choose not to defend yourself and end up in a closed casket, that's nobody's fault but your own.
 

GoldenTiger

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Like I said, if you choose not to defend yourself and end up in a closed casket, that's nobody's fault but your own.

Wait, it's not the shooter's fault!???!!!! HOLY !!!!!

By the way, did you rescind your false claim of someone posting stuff in genmay who says he doesn't have access to it even? :p I didn't see if you backtracked yet....
 

XamediX

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People who actually know how to use a firearm know that inside of maybe 6-8 feet, you may not be able to shoot someone before they turn the tables on you.

Masad Ayoob regularly demonstrates that a young man can cover 20 feet of distance and deliver a fatal knife wound before most people can draw and fire their weapon. He defends police officers in various cases but one of the classic scenarios is the cops shooting a guy with a knife from 10 or 15 feet away - most people think that is unjustifiable but when you understand everything in play, you realize that this is inside the reaction time of most people.

TV is great for showing people holding a gun at arms length and getting in someones face for dramatic effect, but in reality, you should hold the weapon low and close to your body with the weapon side turned slightly away from the person you are covering. You can use your weak hand to defend / deflect any advancement while keeping the firearm out of reach.




Fact.
Thanks for a breath of fresh logic. As usual people using their emotions in place of logic to form an opinion. I co-sign everything that you said and quoted. The worst thing you can do is put your gun right on the dudes head or on his body. Maybe if you had a super-light 2lb trigger you'd be ok, but that's not common.

But then again anyone who ever trained with a firearm would know those things. Those that don't, should keep that in mind that they dont know while forming opinions based on info they don't know.
 

Shalafi

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Other than the shooter obviously, but I'm not about to argue semantics, semantics offers the most useless arguments imaginable.

That someone would be so willing to throw their life away without defending themselves to the last is baffling to me.
 

XamediX

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Wait, it's not the shooter's fault!???!!!! HOLY !!!!!

By the way, did you rescind your false claim of someone posting stuff in genmay who says he doesn't have access to it even? :p I didn't see if you backtracked yet....

Because its common sense that the shooter shares some "blame"... if you wanna get semantic with it. Stuff like that doesn't need to be said, it's typically assumed.
 

Q-BZ

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Other than the shooter obviously, but I'm not about to argue semantics, semantics offers the most useless arguments imaginable.

That someone would be so willing to throw their life away without defending themselves to the last is baffling to me.

If you're unarmed, how do you defend yourself against a guy with a loaded gun?
 

TwistedAegis

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http://hunting.maitt.org/hunting-eq...66.html+time+needed+to+pull+a+trigger&ct=clnk

From the link: A "newby" with gun drawn and on target will take 0.3 seconds to pull the trigger.

http://www.fastdraw.org/fd_draw.html+time+needed+to+draw+a+gun&ct=clnk

From the link: The current world record to fast draw and fire is 0.208 seconds. And that is with a customized rig designed for quick release and unencumbering clothing.

So unless you're walking away from your championship fast draw competition (with live ammo), the odds of you drawing and firing on an assailant who already has his gun on you and finger on the trigger is so incredibly low as to be a death wish outside of other extenuating circumstances. I'm not sure why this isn't common sense - if you were a truly educated gun owner / user this wouldn't even be an argument. As the prior commentor stated, even an assailant WITH A KNIFE can easily cover a distance of over 10 feet and stab someone prior to them being able to draw and fire. I'm not arguing from some kind of liberal "guns are bad, mmk?" BS, I'm arguing cold hard facts. In this situation, going for your gun is idiotic. Period.
 

GoldenTiger

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Because its common sense that the shooter shares some "blame"... if you wanna get semantic with it. Stuff like that doesn't need to be said, it's typically assumed.

Shooter doesn't share blame, he is entirely at fault. Common sense, indeed..... :rolleyes::rolleyes:
 

XamediX

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Shooter doesn't share blame, he is entirely at fault. Common sense, indeed..... :rolleyes::rolleyes:

Tunnel vision is a helluva drug man. Survival rule #1: self preservation. Do what it takes to survive. So yes, when doing nothing you share blame, because you could've done something. Just because you and your sample size is not equipped in the least bit to defend himself, doesn't mean the total population is.
 

Spooony

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...he probably went home and started downloading it from piratebay, like all the"normal" people I know did.
 

Greene420

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Wow... just wow.

That is one PATHETIC mother fucker. He even went back TO STAND IN FUCKING LINE TO GET COD, after, trying to jack the guy..... :rolleyes:

What a Grade A degenerate
 

NukeDukem

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If you have the balls to wrestle with a kid who has loaded heat, might as well take it all the way. I would have snapped his neck, fully killed him. That is no joke to point a gun at someone, life is not MW3.
 

Azhar

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If you have the balls to wrestle with a kid who has loaded heat, might as well take it all the way. I would have snapped his neck, fully killed him. That is no joke to point a gun at someone, life is not MW3.

I'm sure you would. :rolleyes:
 

Q-BZ

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Wait till the fool cocks it again and punch him in the face for being a retard....

Easier said than done. We're all relaxing here having a casual chat. It's a completely different thing entirely when you're actually IN a situation like that.

It's not a videogame or a movie where you can flip on the slow mo and take an adrenaline pain killer pill and be all good. ;)
 

K1tty

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Easier said than done. We're all relaxing here having a casual chat. It's a completely different thing entirely when you're actually IN a situation like that.

It's not a videogame or a movie where you can flip on the slow mo and take an adrenaline pain killer pill and be all good. ;)

Pffft slow mow, jumping knife to the neck ftw :D
 

DoubleTap

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http://hunting.maitt.org/hunting-eq...66.html+time+needed+to+pull+a+trigger&ct=clnk

From the link: A "newby" with gun drawn and on target will take 0.3 seconds to pull the trigger.

http://www.fastdraw.org/fd_draw.html+time+needed+to+draw+a+gun&ct=clnk

From the link: The current world record to fast draw and fire is 0.208 seconds. And that is with a customized rig designed for quick release and unencumbering clothing.

So unless you're walking away from your championship fast draw competition (with live ammo), the odds of you drawing and firing on an assailant who already has his gun on you and finger on the trigger is so incredibly low as to be a death wish outside of other extenuating circumstances. I'm not sure why this isn't common sense - if you were a truly educated gun owner / user this wouldn't even be an argument. As the prior commentor stated, even an assailant WITH A KNIFE can easily cover a distance of over 10 feet and stab someone prior to them being able to draw and fire. I'm not arguing from some kind of liberal "guns are bad, mmk?" BS, I'm arguing cold hard facts. In this situation, going for your gun is idiotic. Period.

The first link didn't work and while interesting, the "quick draw" stuff is a niche sport.

I have not seen the specific test, but I am guessing that they had people on a line and told them to fire on signal and then measured the reaction time. I've played that "Ninja Reflex" computer game and typically get between .2 and .3 seconds in reaction time - most people who play games can probably manage that.

So this is what you need to keep in mind - in the artificial scenario, there is no decision process and the signal is crystal clear. In a real life scenario, there is tension between wanting to maintain control or stay alive and not wanting to shoot someone - yes, even the most hardened criminal is going to have some level of reluctance to shoot you (at least before you are fully under control or have released the goods) as it makes things more complicated.

One of the things taught by Col. Jeff Cooper was the color system - mentally assuming different states based on your immediate situation. (you can look it up if you're interested) Part of that system of thinking is also pre-deciding certain things such as "if that does this, I am going to do X". You also have to remember that most criminals do NOT expect resistance and are not likely to do have pre-decided at what point they are going to shoot you.

There are no guarantees, but these situations are not as cut and dried and lopsided as people would believe and having a gun on someone at arms length does not mean you are 100% safe. It gives you the balance of power, but it's precarious and the slightest inattention against a clever and bold opponent and you can lose your advantage instantly.

Don't underestimate the "my gun is a magic talisman" mindset. Use it to your advantage.
 

XamediX

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Easier said than done. We're all relaxing here having a casual chat. It's a completely different thing entirely when you're actually IN a situation like that.

It's not a videogame or a movie where you can flip on the slow mo and take an adrenaline pain killer pill and be all good. ;)

I think that's something that people on the other side of the argument needs to understand. You don't know what to do or what will actually happen until you are in his situation. I have practiced with my firearms for 5 years and I have a good idea when someone knows what they are doing and when someone doesn't. I cant speak for the person in the article as he is a diff person with diff skill-trees than everyone else.

Some people are pussies and wouldve cried and given whatever the robber asked for. Some people are fearless and wouldve rushed the dude as soon as he cocked again like a retard. And then there are the infinite variations in between. If you arent built like that than fine. Don't risk your life doing anything to upset the big bad robber. But not all people are like that. What you see as a risk is coming from your perspective with your means of doing stuff. Others can see the same situation and not see such a big risk once they notice certain factors.
 

XamediX

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*snip*
There are no guarantees, but these situations are not as cut and dried and lopsided as people would believe and having a gun on someone at arms length does not mean you are 100% safe. It gives you the balance of power, but it's precarious and the slightest inattention against a clever and bold opponent and you can lose your advantage instantly.

Don't underestimate the "my gun is a magic talisman" mindset. Use it to your advantage.

Agreed. I also think that views on this will change greatly depending on whether you own a firearm or not. Those that don't have too many variables they dont know how to account for or that they exist. Those that do, have more information and training to make a decision.
 

DoubleTap

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Another irony is that most people would be far more afraid of the man with a gun than the man with a knife - but I would be far less inclined to try something against a knife.
 

XamediX

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Another irony is that most people would be far more afraid of the man with a gun than the man with a knife - but I would be far less inclined to try something against a knife.

Wow.... I thought I was the only one. Knives are dangerous and their attack patterns make it really tough to anticipate.
 

AaronGant

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The odds are nowhere near as likely that they kill you anyway, as they kill you as you try to fight. You are more likely by far to live by handing over the goods then acting as needed. Probabilities ring a bell, son????

Plenty of people kept saying this guy was defending his video game, risking his life for the game. My point was that he wasn't defending his purchase, just himself since it could of turned out badly for him either way. He must of thought he needed to act and things turned out well for him. Then I pointed out that complying doesn't always make for a safe outcome like everyone criticized the guy for not doing.

Not sure why you had to take on a browbeating tone about it.
 

TwistedAegis

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So this is what you need to keep in mind - in the artificial scenario, there is no decision process and the signal is crystal clear. In a real life scenario, there is tension between wanting to maintain control or stay alive and not wanting to shoot someone - yes, even the most hardened criminal is going to have some level of reluctance to shoot you (at least before you are fully under control or have released the goods) as it makes things more complicated.

One of the things taught by Col. Jeff Cooper was the color system - mentally assuming different states based on your immediate situation. (you can look it up if you're interested) Part of that system of thinking is also pre-deciding certain things such as "if that does this, I am going to do X". You also have to remember that most criminals do NOT expect resistance and are not likely to do have pre-decided at what point they are going to shoot you.

There are no guarantees, but these situations are not as cut and dried and lopsided as people would believe and having a gun on someone at arms length does not mean you are 100% safe. It gives you the balance of power, but it's precarious and the slightest inattention against a clever and bold opponent and you can lose your advantage instantly.

Don't underestimate the "my gun is a magic talisman" mindset. Use it to your advantage.

That's all well and good, but I would think that the decision to pull the trigger would crystallize fairly quickly as he sees the butt of a gun being withdrawn from under your jacket/out of your belt. I'm not saying don't defend yourself, as the situation allows. What I'm saying is: A) CCW is not the panacea so many make it out to be and B) MOST situations where a gun is already drawn on you will not allow for you to then go for your own gun or to make a move.
 

GoldenTiger

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Tunnel vision is a helluva drug man. Survival rule #1: self preservation. Do what it takes to survive. So yes, when doing nothing you share blame, because you could've done something. Just because you and your sample size is not equipped in the least bit to defend himself, doesn't mean the total population is.

LOL... "Oh, that guy coulda dodged that car if he saw it coming... it's HIS fault for getting hit, not the drunk driver's!" I have no other word to describe this/your line of thinking but "unbelievable", I'm sorry.
 

GoldenTiger

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LOL... "Oh, that guy coulda dodged that car if he saw it coming... it's HIS fault for getting hit, not the drunk driver's!" I have no other word to describe this/your line of thinking but "unbelievable", I'm sorry.

Oh, and by saying "unbelievable" I mean I assume that you cannot POSSIBLY actually believe what you're saying and are just trying to incite an argument ;).
 

XamediX

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No you just refuse to think outside of your box. I have already wasted enough time appeasing your your weak attempts at semantics.
 

GoldenTiger

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No you just refuse to think outside of your box. I have already wasted enough time appeasing your your weak attempts at semantics.

Your argument is that a victim of a serious crime is somehow at fault for the crime against them... so, yeah, basically you're trying to BS and claim I "don't understand" instead of just admitting you're wrong :).
 

XamediX

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No, you aren't worth the time to break down what I and others already have and you keep missing the point. *shrug* But if that makes you feel better to think that, then go ahead. I could give a fuck. I just got my new video card, I'm off to play BF3.
 

GoldenTiger

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No, you aren't worth the time to break down what I and others already have and you keep missing the point. *shrug* But if that makes you feel better to think that, then go ahead. I could give a fuck. I just got my new video card, I'm off to play BF3.

If you can't even articulate remotely what your so-called "point" is, you're probably not worth listening to regardless :p. Have fun with BF3!
 
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