Holy fuck! I hope this is not true
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/btl/exclu...en-xbox-release/46247?tag=mantle_skin;content
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/btl/exclu...en-xbox-release/46247?tag=mantle_skin;content![[H]ard|Forum](/styles/hardforum/xenforo/logo_dark.png){kind=logo}
Game development stalled until 2015?
- Thread starter AMD_Gamer
- Start date
I doubt it. Successful console releases have been gratuitous sequels with next to no innovation, and with out hardware developments to motivate upgrades for graphics, physics or larger game worlds, the gaming market is going to sag long before that. Since the most lucrative market (COD) does not really like innovation, they are going to have to come out with new consoles, or they are going to end up going the way of Guitar Hero. Even if they get in gear right now, I don't think they will avoid the sag.
Gimmicks like Kinect or 3D really aren't going to move a large enough of titles either. It would obviously be very good for MS if they would, but I just don't see it happening. Console gaming is stagnant, and more hardware is the only way forward.
Gimmicks like Kinect or 3D really aren't going to move a large enough of titles either. It would obviously be very good for MS if they would, but I just don't see it happening. Console gaming is stagnant, and more hardware is the only way forward.
It's a bit silly to equate game development with the XBox platform isn't it?
Just in terms of the Move and Kinect, we have plenty of fresh items worthy of experimentation by designers.
To say nothing of the fact we consistently see tremendously fun and creative titles from XBLA, PSN, PC Indie games and Wii-Ware (Ok, maybe not WiiWare). None of which are hampered by shader models or instructions per second or other hardware 'limitations.'
And even if you are so preoccupied with how many shader operations per second your game is pushing through, look at a game that game out mid-way through the PS2's life vs one of its swan songs to see how much more developers will be scraping out of consoles over the next 4 or 5 years.
EDIT
Ah, hell, I just realized this is in the PC forum which makes even less sense; unless you're trolling.
I've got quit drinking.
Just in terms of the Move and Kinect, we have plenty of fresh items worthy of experimentation by designers.
To say nothing of the fact we consistently see tremendously fun and creative titles from XBLA, PSN, PC Indie games and Wii-Ware (Ok, maybe not WiiWare). None of which are hampered by shader models or instructions per second or other hardware 'limitations.'
And even if you are so preoccupied with how many shader operations per second your game is pushing through, look at a game that game out mid-way through the PS2's life vs one of its swan songs to see how much more developers will be scraping out of consoles over the next 4 or 5 years.
EDIT
Ah, hell, I just realized this is in the PC forum which makes even less sense; unless you're trolling.
I've got quit drinking.
Don't think he ment no more games are going to be developed until 2015. More like advancement in games will be "stalled" until 2015.
I'm not a mind reader. I don't know what he meant. I only know what he said, and it was a pretty dumb statement.
That would be a pessimistic way to look at it.
An optimist might say that with no advances in graphics capabilities in the next three years, this will force developers to innovate in terms of gameplay instead of relying on shiny new graphics. Don't know if I buy that but I mind as well hope for the best.
An optimist might say that with no advances in graphics capabilities in the next three years, this will force developers to innovate in terms of gameplay instead of relying on shiny new graphics. Don't know if I buy that but I mind as well hope for the best.
PrincessFrosty
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We're pushing too far ahead with PC hardware already, we have something like 20x more GPU power than current gen consoles with the best configurations.
Now we're seeing some developers simply cannot ignore this difference, a few DX11 titles have leaked out but the big show will be this year when EA DICE make more money than god selling BF3, hopefully that will cause somewhat of a cascade of development for the PC proving the platform is still viable if you actually put some care and attention into your game.
In the 4 years between now and 2015 hardware will double in speed and then double again putting our fastest GPU configurations at something like 80x faster than current gen consoles.
I know that we've been through a rough patch where consoles have dominated the playing field, but the simple fact is that the gap is now too large to ignore now, it will take some time for a comeback but I firmly believe that games like BF3 will start the ball rolling on some more attention for the PC.
Now we're seeing some developers simply cannot ignore this difference, a few DX11 titles have leaked out but the big show will be this year when EA DICE make more money than god selling BF3, hopefully that will cause somewhat of a cascade of development for the PC proving the platform is still viable if you actually put some care and attention into your game.
In the 4 years between now and 2015 hardware will double in speed and then double again putting our fastest GPU configurations at something like 80x faster than current gen consoles.
I know that we've been through a rough patch where consoles have dominated the playing field, but the simple fact is that the gap is now too large to ignore now, it will take some time for a comeback but I firmly believe that games like BF3 will start the ball rolling on some more attention for the PC.
Jimi_Shuffler
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+1, I'd gladly pay full price for a game with good gameplay.
BF3 is going to sell gangbusters.. but guess what? Its going to sell more on just the 360 alone, not including the PS3. Your dream of the PC becoming the shining light of gaming are so far disconnected from whats really going on.
I've been a PC gamer since well, the late 80s. The entire 90s I gamed on just a PC, and it wasn't until 2006 when I got my first 360 did I enter the console realm. Since then, nearly every single PC gamer I know has picked up a console (or 2) and barely if ever fires up their PC. Why? I think ease of use, true plug and play and following where their friends are. Getting older, most of us just dont care enough to spend hundreds of dollars every year to upgrade our rigs just to get 10 more FPS on the newest games at max settings. We've got mortgages, car notes, wives, children and bills to spend money on. On top of that, people like my wife .. both my parents AND my in laws all own consoles now. These people have zero history playing games but they own 2 consoles? 2? My parents only have like 5 games, my in laws have like 20 plus plastic accessories and my wife has over 30 games for our 360. These people are the purest definition of where the market is going in my opinion.
Old timers like myself and my friends, while we still game on our PCs are hybrid gamers now. Console+PC. Our familes are console gamers now, our neighbors, our dentists ... pickin' up what I'm puttin down? The market is never going to be what it was during the 1990s where PC gaming was a beacon of shining light where kids begged their parents for money to get a new video card and dreamed of more hardware to improve their FutureMark score.
Do those people exist? Yes, will they always exist? Yes. Are they the future of gaming? LOL No. Gaming in general is very much mainstream these days and its not a fad that is going to go away. Generations who grew up with games are adults now, gaming is part of their lives now.. and they are not going to spend the time/money/hassle to build a gaming PC to play BF3 at max res with all the bells and whistles turned on. They are going to buy it for a console, put the game in the tray and click Play. I would go as far to say that in a few years you'll even start to see the PC become over-commercialized like the console have. Do I want it to? NO. I love having 2 different mediums to play games on, I want the PC to stay the way it is.
Not going to happen. And PC gaming is certainly not going to ever 'return' to any of the glory years. I would say that the idea of a 'desktop' computer is a dying idea... common to people sitting around and listening to radios or having a corded telephone at home. Kids are growing up on the go and the only place we're going to see gaming really flurish and take off and great speeds is ...
*drumroll*
Mobile gaming.
Are PCs 20 or 80x more powerful? Sure. Doest that matter? Nope. I suggest people start setting their expectations low, else you're all in for a world of disappointment one day.
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That is true. A lot of people (even my age, around 21) don't even know that PC's can play video games. Seriously. They ask if I've played *insert new game here* and I say "yea, I got the PC version" and they're like "...you can play games on your PC?"
WabeWalker
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Screw Battlefield. That's peanuts.
EA's blockbuster, by a country frickin' mile, is The Sims.
We're talking 150 million units sold, and counting. Nothing... nothing in gaming... comes remotely close to this. The franchise has been built. And yeah, The Sims has been ported over to the console, but the PC is the main platform for this game.
So what's the argument? - that the PC needs a blockbuster to open the eyes of developers? Already got it.
EA's blockbuster, by a country frickin' mile, is The Sims.
We're talking 150 million units sold, and counting. Nothing... nothing in gaming... comes remotely close to this. The franchise has been built. And yeah, The Sims has been ported over to the console, but the PC is the main platform for this game.
So what's the argument? - that the PC needs a blockbuster to open the eyes of developers? Already got it.
Yes, but The Sims appeals to a completely different market than the one we're talking about. It's a casual game, whereas Battlefield is geared toward more hardcore gamers. That's the group that has been gravitating towards consoles.
defiant007
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Bad company 2 sold more copies on PC than either the 360 or PS3. Judging by that, and the fact that the differences between the the PC and console versions are going to be significant, I am willing to bet that sales on PC will easily eclipse that of consoles.
Holy fuck! I hope this is not true
What does the xbox have to do with game development honestly
they weren't the first nor the last to get into gaming at least console wise. I play most of my games on the PC always have always will ~ superior hardware - superior gaming experience or the PS3
since the PS2 and PS1. and before that Super Nintendo. Everyone knows the xbox has antiquated hardware.
This is the PC GAMING & Hardware section -_-
Is this even posted in the right section????
Plague_Injected
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Apparently that's a bit of a myth. What the PC version does have over the console versions is that there are generally more people still playing it.
WabeWalker
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This just in: breathing has been delayed until 2015. Oxygen levels need to replenish.
Vagrant_Zero
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Put the game in the tray? Aww, look at the funny console gamers who still have to fuck around with physical media.
As a grown-up PC gamer I may have less time, but I have loads more money to piss away on PCs than I used to, there's just increasingly little reason to upgrade thanks to console ports which don't even break a sweat on a modern PC. And yet I have absolutely zero interest in buying a console. I can't even bear to watch a video of someone playing a FPS with a pad, let alone play one, RPGs always end up looking like they were designed for mentally-challenged toddlers on consoles, and Elite Beat Agents on the DS is all the rhythm action I'll ever need. Which only leaves Red Dead Redemption (and LA Noire) because they're not on the PC (fuck you, Rockstar). But I'm not going to buy a console just to play substandard versions of those.
There's no need to sound so smug about the way the industry's gone, you may as well applaud McDonalds.
Azureth
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What you guys are forgetting is to YOU the gap is large, but to the average console joe it isn't. All the time I hear my friends and people talk about how "stunning" and "amazing" the graphics are on games on their consoles. Ignorance is bliss and as long as these people are out there I could certainly see the next gen systems not coming out till 2015 or so, especially in this economy where people don't have a lot of extra cash.
I personally think Nintendo will be the first to come out with a new system around 2013 or 14 where Sony/Microsoft will come out a year or so later.
I personally think Nintendo will be the first to come out with a new system around 2013 or 14 where Sony/Microsoft will come out a year or so later.
PrincessFrosty
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Hey, I never said that it was going to sell more than consoles, nor did I say that the PC was going to become the shining light of gaming. Lets get something straight, the AAA title market is way bigger on the console markets than on the PC, there are more people willing to shell out for the latest CoD on Xbox360 than the PC.
That's not the point, the point is that there has been a slow degeneration of the quality of PC games over the years due to lowest common denominator development, what a lot of PC gamers want to see is some attention given to the platform to bring back the quality. BF3 is focused on PC first and should sell like hotcakes, I'm hoping that will encourage other developers to spend that extra time on the PC version of their games because if done right you can rake in more sales.
It's about benchmarking PC gaming against itself not against other platforms, it's about getting away from this mentality where developers build one glove to fit all instead of tailoring each game to it's respective platform. It's about proving that the extra effort it takes to tailor to each platform results in greater sales and those sales can cover the cost of that extra effort easily.
I dont really have a hard time believing this. Right now you can definately see a difference between a high end pc game and a console game. The thing is its no where near the huge jump consoles took from the ps2/xbox era to the current generation of consoles. That jump sells consoles and if the marketing and software developers arent predicting another gap like that until 2014-2015 its reasonable to assume they are going to suggest holding out. The last thing any console manufacturer wants to do is pull out another dreamcast.
They'll wait until they can show something really impressive to the average gamer in the commercials and e3 demo's before they ever go beyond prototypes.
They'll wait until they can show something really impressive to the average gamer in the commercials and e3 demo's before they ever go beyond prototypes.
defiant007
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Don't think its a myth, can be verified just by looking at the number of registered players on each platform at stat tracking websites:
http://bfbcs.com/
Given that a single console copy can pass through multiple hands (used sales, rentals, lending between friends, etc) I think it is fair to presume that the PC version likely sold more than the 360 or PS3.
Kwisatz Haderach
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Should the title not read, 2015 Halo Reboot
Tricky2ufellow
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For me it's about Multi-Monitor PC Gaming.....just give games supporting it, I'd be happy
Tigerblade
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Where does it say in that article game development will be stalled?
It doesn't say anything the more sane amongst us haven't already guessed....that the next round of home consoles won't be around for a few years. The 360 being around for another 4 years also means fuck all to any other console. No-one knows what will be out on any console in the next 4 years....handheld or home.
Now wind that kneejerk back in and engage brain. There we go.
That first tri-monitor setup is hilarious...you just know that dude is fuckin huge, easy access to kitchen, a small portable stove to the right....hell there's even some handy biscuits within easy reach!!
The other two look awesome. I miss my old tri-monitor setup
It doesn't say anything the more sane amongst us haven't already guessed....that the next round of home consoles won't be around for a few years. The 360 being around for another 4 years also means fuck all to any other console. No-one knows what will be out on any console in the next 4 years....handheld or home.
Now wind that kneejerk back in and engage brain. There we go.
That first tri-monitor setup is hilarious...you just know that dude is fuckin huge, easy access to kitchen, a small portable stove to the right....hell there's even some handy biscuits within easy reach!!
The other two look awesome. I miss my old tri-monitor setup
Speaking as a game developer, consoles will make themselves less and less attractive targets for development. To get a decent FPS on the X360 many games are forced to render at 540p or lower resolutions. In another 4 years the X360 hardware won't just seem anemic, it would be akin to pulling out that old P4 system from around 2003 and setting it as the development target.
Sure, it's possible to make things look fancy with enough effort, but it doesn't take away from the fact that one can do a heck of a lot more as a developer with even an average i5 system with a mainstream AMD/Nvidia card and 4+ GB of RAM than with what amounts to a budget double-core chip and a GeForce 7-era GPU. The features supported by new GPUs are just so much ahead of what these old GPUs could do.
Heck, at this point even smartphones are beginning to impress me more in terms of features than current consoles.
Sure, it's possible to make things look fancy with enough effort, but it doesn't take away from the fact that one can do a heck of a lot more as a developer with even an average i5 system with a mainstream AMD/Nvidia card and 4+ GB of RAM than with what amounts to a budget double-core chip and a GeForce 7-era GPU. The features supported by new GPUs are just so much ahead of what these old GPUs could do.
Heck, at this point even smartphones are beginning to impress me more in terms of features than current consoles.
Tigerblade
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But that's the nature of the beast isn't it. Consoles have always and will always be closed box systems that will not change for the best part of 10 years.....maybe more. There have been the odd examples of systems not adhering to that mould but for the most part that is the norm.
It also normal to see games get better looking as the console gets older. Is there any reason to expect the current gen to be any different and just stop now for the next four years? Of course not.
Wrong. PC version only sold 310,000 copies while the PS3 sold 2.17 million copies and the 360 sold 2.87 million copies. The PC sales are laughable compared to the console sales. Why are PC only gamers soo delusional the glory days of PC games are over.....sadly
link
That could be true. BUT it sold 5 million copies two months after launch link. Both console versions add up to a little bit over 5 million by them selves so either way the PC version even with digital copies doesn't come close to the console sales.
Graphical fidelity is irrelevant. Consoles will continue to be attractive for development simply because they have a considerably larger consumer base than the PC platform.
I'm not saying they won't be an attractive development platform due to the consumer base size. What I am saying is that devs are already running into the limitations of the hardware right now, and developing for the X360 will become more and more a painful reminder that one is programming for 2005 hardware instead of brand new 2010+ hardware
When I hear my colleague (in charge of game engine development/maintenance) complain about even 2008 hardware I doubt it's a matter of getting used to
Well, your colleague doesn't work for a major development studio or publisher, so frankly, his complaints don't mean much.When I hear my colleague (in charge of game engine development/maintenance) complain about even 2008 hardware I doubt it's a matter of getting used to