Gabe Newell: Valve's Steam Machines Outperform Consoles At Same Price Point

Stoly

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But even if they were. there would still be a tiny list of games that run as good as their windows counterparts.

Hopefully vulkan will change that, but its going to take a while.

I'm not sure steamboxes will prevail but I hope the "windows console" will.
 

Zohar78

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If Steam is platform agnostic then from Valve's perspective what's the point of making an exclusive that caters to about 1% of your customers to push a platform that doesn't make you a dime directly? Valve makes the same money regardless if the game is running on Windows, Linux/Steam OS or OS X. That's what I mean by financial unviable.

As you indicated earlier, the point of Steam OS and Steam Machines was to give Valve its own platform to distribute games as a hedge against Windows and the possibility, however remote, of Microsoft locking down desktop Windows from 3rd parties. I've always said that Steam OS/Steam Machines made perfect business sense. However they currently don't make a lot of customer sense.

while that could be true, I think part of it was trying to give some direction for pc gaming. Especially with MS for like the past 10 years doing its double talking jive saying "we are for pc gaming" but in reality they don't do jack other than uttering that bs line the same time ever year.
 

Flogger23m

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Newsflash: SteamOS hasn't officially launched yet. Their "big push" begins now in conjunction with titles built on Vulkan including firstparty Source 2 games and a boatload of dev partners under NDA. Obviously it won't be an overnight success with millions of kiddies getting mom to buy 'em like Playstations and Xboxen, but a small tree is being planted.

Depends on the interest. Outside of the internet I don't think much of anyone has heard of the Steambox concept. The "boatload" of dev partners doesn't mean anything if the games aren't Mario or Halo. They have to be utterly amazing from a commercial standpoint to sell the platform. And make fun of those "console kiddies" because Valve is going to need them if they want to succeed. To dethrown the PS/Xbox means the Steambox will have to be viable for the lowest common denominator, the brand every parent knows even if they never played video games themselves.

Newell is preaching to the choir if he thinks people care much about faster performance. Most console gamers choose between exclusives and what their friends are playing. The second point being a big reason the Wii U never caught on in this online gaming world.

I also find it ironic that people who like the Steambox concept dislike consoles even though that is what the Steambox is. But depending on the argument, it becomes a PC. Choose whichever side benefits your argument at the moment. :D
 

heatlesssun

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while that could be true, I think part of it was trying to give some direction for pc gaming. Especially with MS for like the past 10 years doing its double talking jive saying "we are for pc gaming" but in reality they don't do jack other than uttering that bs line the same time ever year.

As long as their is an Xbox with Microsoft exclusives some will see that as hostile to PC gaming, and I don't blame them. But the large user base of Windows is a great asset to PC gaming. Windows 10 is the platform on which the Xbox One will now run and that should make cross-platform titles easier to do while better leveraging the power of the PC.

But the biggest thing Microsoft could do is bring Halo to the PC as co-equal platform. Surely Microsoft has thought about it. I think it would be a plus for them if they did.
 

heatlesssun

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Depends on the interest. Outside of the internet I don't think much of anyone has heard of the Steambox concept. The "boatload" of dev partners doesn't mean anything if the games aren't Mario or Halo.

This. And whatever is under NDA is probably going to be Windows compatible or already there.
 
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I'm sure SteamOS will progress more rapidly, at the very least. I'll reserve judgment for now, I suppose.
 

rezerekted

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There is zero reason (beyond irrational hatred of MS) to buy a Steam Machine. And let's not forget, that irrational hatred of MS is what started Valve on this crusade in the first place.

Gabe used to work for Microsoft so how do you know it is irrational hatred?
 

DukenukemX

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No they are not.

Because when Linux scores higher FPS it's a lie?

A PC built with used parts.
Is no less of a PC. If Valve were to build a SteamBox it would be discounted due to bulk and using the SteamOS over a Windows license. If someone went with AMD hardware they could probably reach the $400 price point.

They're probably talking about the alienware steam machine which is $50 more expensive when including Windows and comes with a 360 controller and not the Steam controller. BTW any doubts that Valve is competing against Xbox One and PS4 and look at the quote you see on their webpage.

10 Steam Machine Games That’ll Make PS4 & Xbox One Owners Jealous
 

Zohar78

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Is no less of a PC. If Valve were to build a SteamBox it would be discounted due to bulk and using the SteamOS over a Windows license. If someone went with AMD hardware they could probably reach the $400 price point.

They're probably talking about the alienware steam machine which is $50 more expensive when including Windows and comes with a 360 controller and not the Steam controller. BTW any doubts that Valve is competing against Xbox One and PS4 and look at the quote you see on their webpage.

Being used parts, there's no guarantee you can find those parts at the same price... They really kind of BS the challenge.. but then again the challenge was pretty vague with no parameters..
 

HockeyJon

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Bullshit. Yes they are hire spec but the image quality is not as good, PC games aren't as optimized as console games. Everything you like about the PC you're on LINUX you're probably not running the name brand software you like on windows, it's about as connected and useful on the internet as a modern console is today.

Soon, XBONE will be on DX12 and Windows 10. What's the value prop of XBONE vs just making a PC and hooking it up to you TV at that point?? They're both "optimized" for the same API, unless you want the 30 FPS "cinematic feel" from XBONE.
 

Flogger23m

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Is no less of a PC.

Well by those parameters, a used Xbox/PS is no less of a console either. And you can nab those from Gamestop with some warranty regularly. I think the cheapest a new One has been was ~$280 new with some free games a few weeks back. Was posted in the deals section. You can walk into a Costco right now and get a new One with a game for $325.

As for Steamboxes being faster than a PS4 I'd hope so. It is a two year old console, I'd expect them to be faster. Same goes for the Nintendo NX. Though I believe Nintendo will release something marginally faster so they can compete price wise. But I think the NX isn't going to do too well because the online community is entrenched in PSN and LIVE. And like always, the launch titles will be minimal at release VS 2 years of games on the other consoles. I may be wrong though.
 

funkydmunky

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Soon, XBONE will be on DX12 and Windows 10. What's the value prop of XBONE vs just making a PC and hooking it up to you TV at that point?? They're both "optimized" for the same API, unless you want the 30 FPS "cinematic feel" from XBONE.

As far as the XB1 goes, DX12 and Win10 are great marketing points only. It may get a minor GUI upgrade, but it is going to be programmed with the same low level API it has always been. Console is console. Stop drinkin the cool-aid.
 

MrTryfe

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Well by those parameters, a used Xbox/PS is no less of a console either. And you can nab those from Gamestop with some warranty regularly. I think the cheapest a new One has been was ~$280 new with some free games a few weeks back. Was posted in the deals section. You can walk into a Costco right now and get a new One with a game for $325.

As for Steamboxes being faster than a PS4 I'd hope so. It is a two year old console, I'd expect them to be faster. Same goes for the Nintendo NX. Though I believe Nintendo will release something marginally faster so they can compete price wise. But I think the NX isn't going to do too well because the online community is entrenched in PSN and LIVE. And like always, the launch titles will be minimal at release VS 2 years of games on the other consoles. I may be wrong though.

Pretty much this. I mean Black Friday is bringing a deal for the XB1 with 2 games and 2 controllers for $350.

If we want to get really pedantic, you can easily find used ones for $250 on craigslist. Someone I know bought a XB1 with 2 controllers for $250 recently.
 

odditory

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Pretty much this. I mean Black Friday is bringing a deal for the XB1 with 2 games and 2 controllers for $350.

If we want to get really pedantic, you can easily find used ones for $250 on craigslist. Someone I know bought a XB1 with 2 controllers for $250 recently.

Sure but then you're stuck with an Xbox, and a pay-forever subscription to Live if you actually want to use it. And will only continue to stagnate as the hardware ages.

The liberation and democratization of the living room console space needs to happen. Everyone complaining they "don't see the point because they already have a PC" is too caught up in the minutiae of right-now, and not looking 2, 3, 5 years from now like Valve is.
 

Flogger23m

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Sure but then you're stuck with an Xbox, and a pay-forever subscription to Live if you actually want to use it. And will only continue to stagnate as the hardware ages.

The liberation and democratization of the living room console space needs to happen. Everyone complaining they "don't see the point because they already have a PC" is too caught up in the minutiae of right-now, and not looking 2, 3, 5 years from now like Valve is.

You're moving the goal post. First it was "costs less than a console" and now its "well you can upgrade it!". News flash - most console users don't care about hardware, upgrading, or AA/AF. Besides what is stopping you from using a PC in your living room?
 

Filiprino

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I don't know if you are aware of things like Wine, which are implementing their own Direct3D 9 and 11.
There's nothing more intuitive than environments like Gnome (with or without Unity) or KDE.

Steam on GNU/Linux works well, and is the same experience as in Windows. Install game and play.
Another step ahead could be to integrate Wine and install windows-only games, like with Play On Linux. But that maybe has some copyright/patent problems. And it's a thing would not work for all games, so it would remain as a beta feature forever (until Wine D3D support is polished).
 

Dr. Righteous

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I have to say I'm with Gabe on this.
If anyone is in the position to push a paradigm shift it is Gabe. Valve is a privately held company so people with vision are able to do what they do best. If you want a system for gaming that is "for the people" that excludes MS. And if anyone bothers to survey the landscape in the past couple years the tide has been slowly turning. Keep in mind this is NOT just about Valve. A few years ago tech leaders at AMD were vocal about how DX is a albatross around the neck of game developers and was really ham strings performance and MS will do nothing about it. Even though this was absolutely true fanboys laughed at this notion.
AMD PROVED it was true by releasing MANTLE; a direct to metal driver that offered stunning performance.
This forced MS hand and they had to do something about the legacy and antiquated coding of the DX API, the result is DX12.
AMD gave Mantle to Chronos the developer behind openGL; and for the open source community there is VULKAN. Vulkan is cross platform; DX is not. Vulkan will be the future because it will be adopted by developers for SoC hand helds. Vulkan will be the API of choice and will start spanning AAA title games. This includes Linux and MS. But when the latest titles start coming out for both linux and MS, the adoption of SteamOS and linux will begin to grow.
For linux in general; the only thing lacking was hardware developers 100% supporting the OS instead of just half a$$ doing it (AMD). Once the support is there there will be a revolution on the desktop.
 

flashoverride

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I have to say I'm with Gabe on this.
If anyone is in the position to push a paradigm shift it is Gabe. Valve is a privately held company so people with vision are able to do what they do best. If you want a system for gaming that is "for the people" that excludes MS. And if anyone bothers to survey the landscape in the past couple years the tide has been slowly turning. Keep in mind this is NOT just about Valve. A few years ago tech leaders at AMD were vocal about how DX is a albatross around the neck of game developers and was really ham strings performance and MS will do nothing about it. Even though this was absolutely true fanboys laughed at this notion.
AMD PROVED it was true by releasing MANTLE; a direct to metal driver that offered stunning performance.
This forced MS hand and they had to do something about the legacy and antiquated coding of the DX API, the result is DX12.
AMD gave Mantle to Chronos the developer behind openGL; and for the open source community there is VULKAN. Vulkan is cross platform; DX is not. Vulkan will be the future because it will be adopted by developers for SoC hand helds. Vulkan will be the API of choice and will start spanning AAA title games. This includes Linux and MS. But when the latest titles start coming out for both linux and MS, the adoption of SteamOS and linux will begin to grow.
For linux in general; the only thing lacking was hardware developers 100% supporting the OS instead of just half a$$ doing it (AMD). Once the support is there there will be a revolution on the desktop.

Hi! I like Steam too. it's pretty cool.

Couple of quick questions, though: Do you know any people who aren't related to you? Have you ever been outside and talked to people who use other systems? Valve isn't going to usher in any new Linux PC Master Race.

Ever.
 

Dr. Righteous

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Hi! I like Steam too. it's pretty cool.

Couple of quick questions, though: Do you know any people who aren't related to you? Have you ever been outside and talked to people who use other systems? Valve isn't going to usher in any new Linux PC Master Race.

Ever.

Spoken like a true fanboy.
You will change you ways and mind when the tide turns because you will not be cough outside majority opinion. You will tell yourself that "you saw this coming a long time ago and have been looking forward to it!"
Right now the sheepfold door is closed. And you feel warm and comfortable. Keep bleating the same mantra. One day you will stop biting the hand that attempts to open it and let you free.
 

jwcalla

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First it was "costs less than a console" and now its "well you can upgrade it!". News flash - most console users don't care about hardware, upgrading, or AA/AF.

Hell, a $200 nvidia shield probably has better graphics than the consoles at this point. Too bad it doesn't have the games.
 

heatlesssun

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Spoken like a true fanboy.
You will change you ways and mind when the tide turns because you will not be cough outside majority opinion. You will tell yourself that "you saw this coming a long time ago and have been looking forward to it!"
Right now the sheepfold door is closed. And you feel warm and comfortable. Keep bleating the same mantra. One day you will stop biting the hand that attempts to open it and let you free.

No one really knows how this going to work out. History shows that it's very difficult to enter a market that already has major and dominant players. If it works out great. The thing is though that this will not take off because of dislike of Windows or Microsoft. This platform has to stand on its own provide something that's appealing to consumers and right now it's difficult to see what that is. Whatever advantage it has now are easily offset by the disadvantage of lack of game support.
 

Ordeith

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All I know is that Blizzard has announced they will not be supporting Linux, or even OSX, with their future game releases.
That's enough to kill SteamOS for me.
 

Quix

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No one really knows how this going to work out. History shows that it's very difficult to enter a market that already has major and dominant players. If it works out great. The thing is though that this will not take off because of dislike of Windows or Microsoft. This platform has to stand on its own provide something that's appealing to consumers and right now it's difficult to see what that is. Whatever advantage it has now are easily offset by the disadvantage of lack of game support.

You know that old joke, the year of Linux on the desktop is next year! (repeat every year from now to infinity). Linux gaming isn't going to be a big thing unless a lot of things change and they won't change unless there is a really good reason. Something like a competent gaming API that was supported across all platforms (Windows, Linux, Mac, Android, iOS, Xbox One, PS4, Steve's Wonderful OS), that might gain traction because it would save studios a bunch of money. Maybe not though, it has been tried before.
 

Silentbob343

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I have small windows box connected to my TV that boots up in to steam big picture mode. I don't care what OS is running in the background so long as the user experience is good. If valve can get it done with a Linux distro, so much the better.

I get that linux performance and support still has a way to go for gaming, but I don't understand why some people seem to be so against it.
 

heatlesssun

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All I know is that Blizzard has announced they will not be supporting Linux, or even OSX, with their future game releases.
That's enough to kill SteamOS for me.

Yeah, there's a interesting story behind this:

http://news.softpedia.com/news/Crea...-Blizzard-CEO-After-He-Responded-475541.shtml

https://www.change.org/p/blizzard-entertainment-support-please-release-native-linux-clients

So that petition has been out there almost a year now and is still 611 signatures away from 5000.
 

JayteeBates

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No one really knows how this going to work out. History shows that it's very difficult to enter a market that already has major and dominant players. If it works out great. The thing is though that this will not take off because of dislike of Windows or Microsoft. This platform has to stand on its own provide something that's appealing to consumers and right now it's difficult to see what that is. Whatever advantage it has now are easily offset by the disadvantage of lack of game support.

For once I completely agree with Heatlesssun...
 

twonunpackmule

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All I know is that Blizzard has announced they will not be supporting Linux, or even OSX, with their future game releases.
That's enough to kill SteamOS for me.

Markets change all the time. In three years, if the penetration of SteamOS users is large enough, Blizzard might reconsider. As it is, I'm not too shocked. Though, I'm kinda surprised they are abandoning OSX.
 

DocFaustus

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Instead of investing so much money into SteamOS, SteamLink, SteamBox, and SteamController...Steam should have partnered up with hardware manufs to tag certain components with some kind of seal of approval, like maybe Levels 1-4, or Bronze-Platinum, or whatever. ...kind of like thinking along the lines of Fatal1ty or ROG stuff.

Man, I really like your idea. This would do well to bridge the gap between the enthusiasts and the game developers.

Matter of fact, fuck the Steam limitation. Lets have this system for all PC gaming.

Developers "This game was coded according to 2014 standards of full level 3 specifications with partial level 2 support." Me "Hrmm, I built my rig to completely adhere to the 2016 level 1 standards, I'll pick a better triple A title for now or wait till they patch up to level 1"
 

jwcalla

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In terms of Steam Machines I never understood why people were so focused on the Linux aspect. That part is nice for people like me who use Linux, but what I thought would be more interesting for PCMR types is that somebody is finally stepping up to try and change the dynamics of gaming from "consoles first, second, third, fourth and, if there's enough time, maybe we'll make a shitty PC port for you scrubs" to putting the PC as the primary target platform for developers.

There are a gazillion reasons why PC gamers should have been getting behind the effort for the benefit of the entire PC platform. But they didn't. "Because Linux."

It seems like the PCMR has no problem being second-fiddle to PS4 and XB1 and getting the sloppy seconds.

Valve and nvidia are about the only companies out there that still care about PC gaming, even if their efforts are imperfect.
 

Ordeith

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Man, I really like your idea. This would do well to bridge the gap between the enthusiasts and the game developers.

Matter of fact, fuck the Steam limitation. Lets have this system for all PC gaming.

Developers "This game was coded according to 2014 standards of full level 3 specifications with partial level 2 support." Me "Hrmm, I built my rig to completely adhere to the 2016 level 1 standards, I'll pick a better triple A title for now or wait till they patch up to level 1"

I thought we already tried (and still have) that with the Windows experience index. It is still largely unused. :(

This game requires the following WEI scores:
Processor: 5.5, Memory: 5.8, Graphics: 6.0, Gaming Graphics: 6.5, Hard Disk: 6.3

Why can't they just use those numbers?
 

Bdonedge

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All I know is that Blizzard has announced they will not be supporting Linux, or even OSX, with their future game releases.
That's enough to kill SteamOS for me.

Really? The company that has like 3 games and is now being published by one of the most evil companies in gaming decides to not use Linux and that killed it for you?

Good luck with that one, bud
 

DPI

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All I know is that Blizzard has announced they will not be supporting Linux, or even OSX, with their future game releases.
That's enough to kill SteamOS for me.

Eh, no they didn't. And I know for a fact Vulkan is being eval'd there internally.

As for lack of MacOSX support, that's Apple's own doing - they continue to have no interest in gaming and shoot themselves in the foot constantly by going their own way with API's.
 

Ordeith

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Really? The company that has like 3 games and is now being published by one of the most evil companies in gaming decides to not use Linux and that killed it for you?

Good luck with that one, bud

It's just a sign of a general trend. If I want to ensure support is there for a game I might be interested in Linux is NOT the way to go.
 

DPI

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In terms of Steam Machines I never understood why people were so focused on the Linux aspect. That part is nice for people like me who use Linux, but what I thought would be more interesting for PCMR types is that somebody is finally stepping up to try and change the dynamics of gaming from "consoles first, second, third, fourth and, if there's enough time, maybe we'll make a shitty PC port for you scrubs" to putting the PC as the primary target platform for developers.

There are a gazillion reasons why PC gamers should have been getting behind the effort for the benefit of the entire PC platform. But they didn't. "Because Linux."

It seems like the PCMR has no problem being second-fiddle to PS4 and XB1 and getting the sloppy seconds.

Valve and nvidia are about the only companies out there that still care about PC gaming, even if their efforts are imperfect.

There's definitely a lot of black-and-white, all-or-nothing thinking that always shows up in these discussions. Breaking up the DirectX stranglehold will benefit everyone, but people are short-sighted and just want to see their own little world. So you'll see silly statements like "w8 so Valve thinx they can replaced my Windoze desktop with Linux?! LOL!" and "Kids won't buy a Steam Machine cuz Xbaux haz Halo".

Valve isn't trying to replace Windows desktops with SteamOS anymore than Sony is trying to replace Windows desktops with Orbit (modified version of FreeBSD) on the PS4.

Valve doesn't care which Steam platform you buy a game on, because the same key works on all platforms. Giving PC gamers more choice in where/how they can play games benefits everyone.
 

heatlesssun

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There's definitely a lot of black-and-white, all-or-nothing thinking that always shows up in these discussions. Breaking up the DirectX stranglehold will benefit everyone, but people are short-sighted and just want to see their own little world. So you'll see silly statements like "w8 so Valve thinx they can replaced my Windoze desktop with Linux?! LOL!" and "Kids won't buy a Steam Machine cuz Xbaux haz Halo".

Valve isn't trying to replace Windows desktops with SteamOS anymore than Sony is trying to replace Windows desktops with Orbit (modified version of FreeBSD) on the PS4.

Valve doesn't care which Steam platform you buy a game on, because the same key works on all platforms. Giving PC gamers more choice in where/how they can play games benefits everyone.

The fundamental question for a consumer is why buy a Steam Box running Steam OS? The OS isn't important except that Steam support isn't the same for Steam OS as Windows. If consumers are not clear about this, it will be a problem.
 

CarbonVirus

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I'm really glad all these people that don't have a Linux distro as their installed OS are stating that it sucks; I go on Ferrari forums all the time and state their cars suck when I don't even own one too!
I have been solely on Ubuntu for about 8 months and it runs the games that are available quite well on my hardware (listed below); in DOTA2, CS:GO, and Insurgency I get about 70-90fps solid and experience no major issues (all settings are set to the highest sans AA).
These games run smoothly because the developers have put the time in to ensure their OpenGL based rendering is up to snuff; this is not the case for many SteamOS/Linux titles available (Alien Isolation, Metro 2033, Killingfloor are a few examples of poorly ported titles).
Specs:
CPU FX8350
GPU R9-270X
RAM 16GB DDR3-1333
Monitor Acer B276HUL 1440p 60Hz
 

jwcalla

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The fundamental question for a consumer is why buy a Steam Box running Steam OS? The OS isn't important except that Steam support isn't the same for Steam OS as Windows. If consumers are not clear about this, it will be a problem.

It's a different question of why consumers should buy something vs. why PC gamers should at least be supportive of the idea.

Consumption behavior is affected by a wide variety of factors.
 
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