Gabe Don't Know Nuttin' 'Bout DRM

Gabe was against "dumb DRM". He never said he was against all DRM. He thinks the benefits should outweigh the negatives. Judging by the success of Steam, most gamers agree that the benefits of Steam usually outweighs its negatives.I personally prefer Stardock's philosophy.

+1, ease up guys, compared to others, I would say steam is on the top when it comes to GOOD DRM even though it seems other people are having problems with (i might be one of the choosen few who doesnt though)
 
No matter how you slice it, STEAM IS DRM. I don't care if you like it or don't but it IS a form of DRM and should be treated as such. In my case, I choose to avoid it completely but I guess there are quite a few people who don't care. Honestly I much prefer the old Safedisc stuff for copy protection because at least it didn't phone home.

As for Valve patching out DRM from the games if they shut down the Steam servers -- do you really believe that? You've seen the recent economy and how fast things can fall. Honestly do you think writing or deploying those patches would be a priority in certain circumstances?

I highly doubt Valve would have no warning if Steam was failing. Please have your mind in touch with reality a little bit before spouting off. None of those dead companies didn't see it coming. If they missed it its their own damn fault. There are ALWAYS signs long before it becomes serious.

What more can you ask them to do? All they can do is promise to do it. Its not like they can prove it until it comes to that point.
 
NEWSFLASH: Guy that sells DRM says that DRM is good!

BFD

We know he's selling, and he's full of it.

Gabe Newell was making and selling software when this guy was selling for hardware companies that eventually failed. I'd wager that Gabe has access to and has examined quite a bit of data concerning software distribution, piracy, and DRM.

Steam is not perfect, but it does one thing that no other DRM scheme currently does: it offers benefits to the consumer. I can download games from Steam that I bought 5 years ago on discs I haven't even seen in 3 years. I can download and play the games on as many computers as I want. I am in no position to deny that others have had problems with offline mode, but it has worked correctly for me.

Steam does not tell me that I can't run other software on MY computer. Steam does not install a driver that seizes control of my DVD drive. Steam does not make me jump through any hoops to uninstall a game.

Naturally, I would prefer DRM free games, but if a title is going to have DRM, Steam is a lesser evil than most alternatives.
 
Huh? Does Steam prevent a person from selling a game that person bought to another person? Retail versions of games purchased on Steam don't mean shit when someone wants to sell their game(s). So quite obviously your point is false.


Hey coolguy.... if you are buying a game that you plan on selling, make seperate Steam account for that game and sell the whole account.

:rolleyes:
 
Hey coolguy.... if you are buying a game that you plan on selling, make seperate Steam account for that game and sell the whole account.

:rolleyes:

I don't usually sell any of my games. I was just responding to a message that completely ignored what pxc stated. Maybe you should have read the entire thread before responding.

:rolleyes:
 
I don't usually sell any of my games. I was just responding to a message that completely ignored what pxc stated. Maybe you should have read the entire thread before responding.

:rolleyes:

I don't sell mine either, but that's how you do it...you make a dedicated account for it. The trail of posts in this thread is confusing to say the least, I took your post as saying you can't sell a game bought off Steam.

Steam is good DRM in my own internet connection having opinion. Maybe if I didn't have internet, I would see it differently, but then again, I wouldn't have a computer if I didn't have the internet.
 
I think Steam works very well, I have had the same account for as long as Steam has been running and it has been used on more than a dozen different PCs, I never have to worry about losing a disk or damaging it. Hell, with Spore the day I installed it I ended up having to reformat my PC using up one of the installs, granted it was my fault due to poor PC maintenance but I never had that issue with Steam.

That's the last thing I should have to worry about, if I buy a game and something goes wrong with my PC, I want to know that if I need to reinstall windows or upgrade to a new PC or OS, I can have the software and not have to call someone and sit on hold and hope they are gracious to grant me a few more installs.

I think a lot of this is overblown, even the Spore DRM didn't effect me all that much as it was terribly boring beyond the creator part of it, however if a game like Max Payne or Max Payne 2 had DRM I would have had to buy them like 5 times over for all the times I've installed them and uninstalled them for disk space.

I think Steam more than anything is the piece of mind that if you have a game you love, it will always be there (I guess this is relying on the solidity of the platform in the future) regardless of whether or not you have the disk space for it.
 
*SNIP*

As for Valve patching out DRM from the games if they shut down the Steam servers -- do you really believe that? You've seen the recent economy and how fast things can fall. Honestly do you think writing or deploying those patches would be a priority in certain circumstances?

Um, yeah? Do you have any idea how many companies have a steak in Steam? Do you also think no one will come to Wikipedia's rescue if they run out of money?
 
*SNIP*

As for Valve patching out DRM from the games if they shut down the Steam servers -- do you really believe that? You've seen the recent economy and how fast things can fall. Honestly do you think writing or deploying those patches would be a priority in certain circumstances?

Also, worst case scenario, can you say uber class action lawsuit?
 
Hell the majority of games that I have bought on steam recently have been in the 10 - 25 dollar range making them really worthless trying to sell them used in the first place. In all honesty the biggest reasons I would try and sell a used game was to get rid of all the cd cases. Do I love the DRM on steam? No but at least it's tolerable so far. I know that could change so I try to keep that in mind when buying a title. Problem is that other game company's have went to much worse DRM on there titles and then included it on the steam install to. Far Cry 2 comes to mind. John Gunn works for a company that uses USB key drives to protect software from copying. I have never seen this included on a retail game (just on some software where I work) so not sure why he is commenting on this.
 
Valve is amazing.. and all PC companies should follow there lead in Digital distribution. Steam is more Digital distribution then it is DRM. All they require is you login to an account to play it.. nothing more. I guess email would be DRM too since you have to login to use it.. right?? Valve is just ahead of times. Gabe knows what hes doing.
 
DRM causes more problems than it solves, at least in my personal experience.

Kept me from even trying Spore. One of my friends weighs any EA game (along with other companies) DRM vs the amount of people that might like to play it. He runs a Lan Center and the headaches of dealing with DRM drive him batty.

He actually went out and bought extra copies of SoaSE and gave everyone a free hour to try it just to wean them off of the CNC franchise. He also supports GPG's Supreme Commander franchise which, after their first patch, removed the hideous DRM. Worked rather well, people still come in to plays Sins but when the RA3 game came out he only had to buy three copies. Saved him quite a bit of dosh and headaches.

Piracy is stupid. Then again releasing games without good demos is stupid too. At least the CoD series (and some other big names) still release demos to tempt people. You want me to buy without trying? (an OLD computer gaming tradition) Pi$$ off you worthless toad. I don't want to buy it unless I know I'm going to enjoy some of the mechanics.
 
I suggest anyone with serious comments also post on the original site - that way he may have to answer some [H] questions....
 
As Ryan Davis from Giantbomb.com (previously from Gamespot.com) said "People don't hate DRM, they hate poorly done DRM." XBOX Live Arcade has DRM, Steam has DRM, but it works well because you don't really notice it. DRM should never be a hinder when doing legit stuff.
 
I suggest anyone with serious comments also post on the original site - that way he may have to answer some [H] questions....

That retarded tool is sitting there deleting posts.
I made a post directly asking him a question, he deleted it. Guess he doesnt want to look like an idiot on his own page. Whatever, he has absolutely ZERO credibilty now, and much less after the way I see him sniping posts on the blog.

Guy is a moron. Dont listen to him.
 
That retarded tool is sitting there deleting posts.
I made a post directly asking him a question, he deleted it. Guess he doesnt want to look like an idiot on his own page. Whatever, he has absolutely ZERO credibilty now, and much less after the way I see him sniping posts on the blog.

Guy is a moron. Dont listen to him.

deleted my response as well. I tossed another comment up inviting him to come comment on my blog where I repeated the comments.
 
A: Valve doesn't set prices for 3rd party titles.
B: Retail agreements prevent publishers from offering games cheaper (Gamestop seems to be especially bad with these agreements).
That doesn't stop them from selling hard-copies in retail stores. And these products have the same DRM as the Steam downloaded versions. The point of buying it retail was to avoid Steam. And why does it cost the same for software that you can't even give away anymore? It didn't used to be like this but the prices are still the same.

Valve has promised to patch out Steam requirements for its games if that happens.
Link please.

There is a major difference that you gloss over like it isn't even there. Spore phones home to check up on you, steam phones home to provide you with a service.
...And to check up on you.

Given the choice between retail or steam, I always buy on Steam. Its just so convenient. I can redownload games I own whenever I want
No one is given the choice anymore, even if you do buy retail you have to agree with their SSA. Oh, and you don't own your games on Steam, in fact you don't even have any say over if you get to play them or not. That's all decided for you, even if you're a paying customer in good standing.

Of course, your suggestion that Steam prevents resale is bullshit, since a vast majority of the games on Steam have a retail version as well (that doesn't require Steam),
You are wrong. Most games put out on Steam and Retail require Steam anyways. Dawn of War 2 for example. I purchased it in retail for the reason that I was going to give it away to a friend when I was done. So I got to pay full price for a less functional game. And this is keeping me as a customer how? This is keeping people from pirating how? We're getting a worse deal for the same price.

if you are buying a game that you plan on selling, make seperate Steam account for that game and sell the whole account.
I don't sell mine either, but that's how you do it...you make a dedicated account for it.
Actually that's against the rules posted in their SSA that you -must- agree to. They'll term the account as soon as they found out.

Hell the majority of games that I have bought on steam recently have been in the 10 - 25 dollar range making them really worthless trying to sell them used in the first place.
How about those people who want to give their games away to friends or family members? And even if you could only resell it for $5, that's still a recoup of $5.

Do I love the DRM on steam? No but at least it's tolerable so far.
Tolerable till you want to give your old games away, games you paid for fairly, and someone is waving an agreement in your face saying that it's yours forever. Greedy mofo's they are.

Valve is amazing.. and all PC companies should follow there lead in Digital distribution. Steam is more Digital distribution then it is DRM. All they require is you login to an account to play it.. nothing more. I guess email would be DRM too since you have to login to use it.. right?? Valve is just ahead of times. Gabe knows what hes doing.
Yeah, lets kill off the secondhand/used market! That would be a great idea. (/sarcasm) Seriously it would be a horrible idea for just about everyone, even if they don't think so right now.

Spore, on the user level, only required the CD in the tray and a log-in to use it.. right? But people made a shitstorm over it all. At least with Spore I could have given it to a friend or sold it.

And lay off the fanboyism. It's not helping.
 
That retarded tool is sitting there deleting posts.
I made a post directly asking him a question, he deleted it. Guess he doesnt want to look like an idiot on his own page. Whatever, he has absolutely ZERO credibilty now, and much less after the way I see him sniping posts on the blog.

Guy is a moron. Dont listen to him.
You're right he deleted two of my posts.
He doesn't want a discussion he's just trying to make a public statement.
Maybe that should go up on the Main Page -
"DRM 'expert' fails tor respond to questions from amateurs".
You can tell someone is playing a losing game when they can't even make a rational argument for their case while being an "expert" in their field.
 
1.\ Calling home ?

Whats the bad thing about it!! ?

2.\ Callin home feature doesnt work when it isnt transparent.

3.\ people are complaining about DRM cause it causes issues.



Would you complain if :
Game never complained about it if you had a legit copy, you just had to have an active internett connection every 5th day or something.

that wouldnt make me complain, would it work against pirates, no.


what do work against pirates?

-A service that is soo good, that it is easier to get it by the service.
-a kind drm that makes it a need to do something a little bit troublesome (fixed in 15 minutes) but still is transparent for the user.
-prices that are so low that you dont use up all youre money on games, frankly, a game lasts 6 hours in singleplayer mode if youre lucky!
 
Steam is the future. It's convenient and unobtrusive. While Defconn is right that is DOES indeed need some way to give your games to other accounts, I still purchase all my games through Steam because ultimately, it's the future of PC gaming and I have faith in Valve as a company.
 
Hahaha, slamming a major provider of one of the dominant digital distribution systems and then using words like "noob" and "pwned" in what is supposedly a serious comment. There's a time and a place for everything and that was not one of them for those comments.

Childish.
 
do you know what good DRM is?

Steam

yes, because of the usability of Steam and their sales I have felt the need to pirate less and less of my favorite games
 
This statement is spot on:

As true as that statement is (and I think largely true when it comes to software like Photoshop) obtrusive DRM is NEVER ok, which is what the statement of Gabes (which he targetted) was talking about. That actually drives people away from purchasing long-term.
 
No matter how you slice it, STEAM IS DRM. I don't care if you like it or don't but it IS a form of DRM and should be treated as such. In my case, I choose to avoid it completely but I guess there are quite a few people who don't care. Honestly I much prefer the old Safedisc stuff for copy protection because at least it didn't phone home.

As for Valve patching out DRM from the games if they shut down the Steam servers -- do you really believe that? You've seen the recent economy and how fast things can fall. Honestly do you think writing or deploying those patches would be a priority in certain circumstances?

You must not play any games at all except old commodore 64 and mud's. CD keys are DRM and as such should be treated the same, but apparently you don't care since you agree to those and Safedisc. :rolleyes:

You're nothing more then a knee-jerk reactionary spreading FUD.
 
A broad-based survey of software developers who implemented software DRM revealed an average increase in revenue of 19%. During the same sample period, combined industry growth was 6%. That yields a 13% gain from stopping piracy with proper software protection.

Bonsai,

Once I said that a broad-based study showed DRM dropped sales by 99% and monkeys too over the world. But until I show you the actual survery my statements are just as full of shit as Gunn's. Someone trying to make a living from DRM is going to say its effective. Did you notice how he didn't name the survey, or who conducted it, or how it was taken? We don't know what developers provided this info. For example, we have no idea what software titles this data comes from. DRM or not, I think when a AAA title like COD4 or GTA4 are release, the publishers revenue will go up.... Yet you take it on blind faith that he is telling the truth.
 
Um, yeah? Do you have any idea how many companies have a steak[/] in Steam? Do you also think no one will come to Wikipedia's rescue if they run out of money?


Is it medium rare? I prefer mine well done.

That doesn't stop them from selling hard-copies in retail stores. And these products have the same DRM as the Steam downloaded versions. The point of buying it retail was to avoid Steam. And why does it cost the same for software that you can't even give away anymore? It didn't used to be like this but the prices are still the same.

You are wrong. Most games put out on Steam and Retail require Steam anyways. Dawn of War 2 for example. I purchased it in retail for the reason that I was going to give it away to a friend when I was done. So I got to pay full price for a less functional game. And this is keeping me as a customer how? This is keeping people from pirating how? We're getting a worse deal for the same price.

If it bothers you THAT much, make a new Steam account for each game that you buy retail that is going to use Steam.

When done, give the game, AND account, to your friend.

Or you can bitch and moan on a forum like this one when all it does is show people that you're stretching hard to make a complaint when it's actually quite trivial to get around the "problem" that you have demonstrated.

Spore, on the user level, only required the CD in the tray and a log-in to use it.. right? But people made a shitstorm over it all. At least with Spore I could have given it to a friend or sold it.

Wrong. Spore used SecuROM. That little bit of Malware that was known for disabling playing of the game and other things you would do with your computer (like CD burning, by disabling/replacing CDRom drivers with their own special type) when you had certain apps running... SecuROM also is notorious for occasionally borking some OS installs, the utility is unreliable, at best, for unregistering installs. Initially when the games are released, you're limited to a set number of installs. Do a quick google search (really, you can do that much. Here's a starter: "SecuROM Lawsuit") and you'll see loads of complaints from people unable to reinstall the legit game... the boxed retail copies they hold in their hands... because they used up the number of installs the CD Key was allowed, SecuROM won't remove itself or uninstall and the utility won't release installs for a setup no longer in use.

Quite frankly...

I refuse to install any games that isn't offered through Steam that is released by a company known for DRM shenanigans... because Steam bought/loaded games don't include SecuRom. You bitch about Steam and try to gloss over the fact that what a lot of us are complaining about is that -other- versions of DRM have been much, much, much worse and vile in the past. And still are just as vile and aggressive in how it's implemented. Valve has already pledged that they will release an unlock patch if they were to fold or eliminate the Steam service. Have you heard anything along this lines for Games for Windows or SecuRom? Nope. That shit still gets installed every time.

SecuRom is certainly not an example you should use (via Spore) if you want your argument to be effective. Even if it's removed NOW and there are no longer any install limits, it still installs if you buy a retail copy and you still have to register your CD key, allow it to phone home every time you get on to verify you have a valid key... AND leave the disc in the drive.

Or you can use the features of Steam (friends list, chat, matchmaking, auto and free updates) and not have to worry about malware being installed with the game. I think I'll stick with Steam, thanks. At least, in the very least, I have the promise of the patch to unlock the games from Steam. A few years from now, when an older game is sitting in the bargain bin... the box looking up at you saying "Play me! Play me!" You go home, install the copy you bought back when from the discs.... and discover the SecuRom authentication server for that game is no longer online, what do you do? After all, the people behind SecuRom are the ones who claim it doesn't behave like malware.
 
Think I've had one problem with off-line mode and I've been using Steam since 2003.

The trick is to set the game for offline mode _while_ you are online. Next time you load up Steam and attempt to play the game while offline, it'll work.
 
This statement is spot on:

The reason the statement is bunk:

Spore.

It was loaded with a very restrictive install limit and SecuRom authentication. It also required the disc to be in the drive. There were also issues with bad/used up installs and people not being able to play the game because they couldn't revoke an install. Yet...

Spore was available on Pirate Bay over a week before its street date.

DRM didn't stop the pirates at all.

It DID, however, prevent legitimate users from fully using the product they had just bought.

DRM, in all forms, restricts rights that a lot of us have taken for granted. We are very vocal about it because we're doing everything we can to make our displeasure known and that we want those rights back.

SecuRom pisses me off to no end and I absolutely refuse to buy any game that will come with it.

However, I can live with Steam.

Why is this? Because Steam is actually useful, Valve is exceptional about providing value for their titles (TF2, L4D free boosters, auto updating) and it doesn't install anything that could compromise my system. Steam doesn't even need to be reinstalled (or any of its games under it) when you format/wipe a system. I keep Steam on a separate partition. After a format/reinstall... I just drag the "Shortcut to steam.exe" to my desktop, click on it, type in my username/pass and i'm in... and all the games work like before. No reinstalling, no hidden crap that takes registry edits and command line crap to remove.

By Valve's own actions, I trust them far more than I trust the shady companies who make the incredibly restrictive malware type forced-install DRM crap on the discs.
 
LOL I like how Newell completely ignores his own DRM, that goes one step worse: preventing resale. I do think Steam is DRM, especially since off-line mode rarely works and I have to log into Steam each Windows session I want to play a game (saved password or not, it's calling home each time). People cried about EA proposing that Spore would call home every couple of weeks. My Steam session calls home every time I start it. :p

Last I checked Spore doesn't do that and I can still resell all my EA games. Down with "bad" DRM and long live "good" (the very restrictive type) DRM. :rolleyes:

The difference between spore and steam is that we KNOW steam calls home. We didn't know that spore would, and saw no good reason for it to do so.

Steam however provides services which really require it to call home, otherwise anyone could spoof that they "own" a game and get it easy.

Don't get me wrong, I'm in no way in favor of DRM. However, I really like the conveniences STEAM offers. Conveniences such as playing whatever game I want wherever. Sure, I gotta install it if it's not there, but if it is, BAM I'm away to the races.

I <3 Steam.
 
Here was my reply over on Aladdin:
"John, that's your opinion and I respect it. But speaking as someone who was burnt hard by Sony's Securom and lost a whole hard drive worth of personal artwork to the Securom uninstall utility I can tell that I will avoid DRM till the day I die. You can call me unreasonable, but I don't really care. I'm the consumer, you want my money. If you want my money you need to sell me a product that I am willing to load on my PC. If it has a rootkit on it. I don't want it. If I can't run Visual Studio at the same time with your "ham fisted" attempt at DRM then I won't buy it.

You can make all the great arguments you want about DRM, but at the end of the day, I think you'd rather have my money from the sale of one of your games rather than another rabid forum poster going for your jugular because your DRM pissed me, a paying customer, off to the point of not buying it.

Good luck though, I hope you can figure out the "balance" between fun and draconian security measures."
 
Too funny, I just went and hit F5 on the Aladdin article page and they deleted my reply. Figures. What a bunch of pussies.
 
A broad-based survey of software developers who implemented software DRM revealed an average increase in revenue of 19%. During the same sample period, combined industry growth was 6%. That yields a 13% gain from stopping piracy with proper software protection.
More data is necessary to draw any kind of conclusion here:
  • Which developers were surveyed, and does this constitute a broad spectrum of PC game developers?
  • How was the combined industry growth figure reached, and which specific industry does it include (PC game sales or combined sales from consoles)?
  • Can it be concluded that the developers surveyed saw revenue increases as a result of implementing DRM or can the increased revenue be attributed to one or more unrelated factors?
The very idea of subtracting the percentage of combined industry growth from the revenue increases of select software developers and drawing a conclusion that the resultant figure of revenue increases is solely attributable to the implementation of DRM is patently absurd. His labeling such an assertion as "genuine empirical evidence" is laughable at best.

I think most of us are aware of your pro-DRM stance, bonsai, but it doesn't do you much good to buy into and relay assertions based on data of which the source and relevance is entirely unknown.
 
As far as I'm concerned, Steam makes it pretty easy to share all my games with my trusted friends. I just give them access to my Steam account. What my old roommate and I used to do is just use a single Steam account for all the games we got. For multiplayer games, I was never logged onto Steam and playing when he played so it worked out perfectly fine and we got to play each other's games.

BTW, in case no one knew, 90% of statistics are incorrect :p. No one ever mentions statistical variance, standard errors, sample size and power, type of statistical test used to analyze the data, rationale for choosing certain tests over others, etc so it's all really moot.
 
It's too bad that most of these companies spend a lot of money on DRM for the people that won't pay anyway, when they should be putting those resources into finding more people that will. DRM doesn't make anyone buy anything, and it has stopped me from even checking out some games, nevermind the thought of buying them. Steam is a great idea and any company that badmouths it wishes they could get the same acceptance that Steam does. I happily pay Steam for the games I want, and avoid most games that come with DRM altogether. I shouldn't have to put wear and tear on a good DVD burner so that a game can check to make sure I actually have a CD (or DVD) or have some kind of rootkit on my machine just to play a game.
 
do you know what good DRM is? Steam
Steam is just the better side of DRM, but all DRM is still bad news for consumers. I'm not going to support crappy DRM just because it's less crappy than other DRM.

If it bothers you THAT much, make a new Steam account for each game that you buy retail that is going to use Steam. When done, give the game, AND account, to your friend.
Take a moment and read their SSA. This is exactly what will get your account locked/termed. So no, you can't actually do it (w/o risk of losing your paid for game). And why do we gotta go through all these friggin' hoops to give away a legit purchase?

Or you can bitch and moan on a forum like this one when all it does is show people that you're stretching hard to make a complaint when it's actually quite trivial to get around the "problem" that you have demonstrated.
You need to research before you make completely wrong statements like this. Seeing how wrong you are here, it makes me think you're probably wrong about these next parts...

Wrong. Spore used SecuROM. *snip*
At least on my system, I never had a problem. Put the disk in, log in, and that's it. No conflicts, no issues to speak of. That's not to say some people did have problems, though. I just think most of this anti-DRM mentality is because it's an EA game, and people -hate- EA with a passion. Believe me, I dislike all DRM, but with as much bitching as people had about Spore's DRM, I really didn't see any issues.

You bitch about Steam and try to gloss over the fact that what a lot of us are complaining about is that -other- versions of DRM have been much, much, much worse and vile in the past.
At least I could have resold or given those games away. That's just not really possible with Steam (without the danger of losing your game/account).

Valve has already pledged that they will release an unlock patch if they were to fold or eliminate the Steam service.
This would be nice, but how about a link?

SecuRom (...) still installs if you buy a retail copy and you still have to register your CD key, allow it to phone home every time you get on to verify you have a valid key...
Steam still installs if you buy a retail copy and you still have to register your CD key, allow it to phone home every time you get on to verify you have a valid key...

or you can use the features of Steam (friends list, chat, matchmaking, auto and free updates)
That's all fine, but there's already programs out there that do this kind of stuff. Xfire covers most of it, and most games (if not all games) gave free updates. The point is that I don't like losing my ability to resell/give away my games even with these features considered. It's not a fair trade, it's also not fairly priced. Older games (sold at a discount) and their mega game packs (like every valve game for $99) are great deals, but paying full price (even buying retail) only to be stuck with it for life? It may not matter to you because maybe you keep your games, but I want to give my old games away, and thanks to Steam that's not happening anymore.

The difference between spore and steam is that we KNOW steam calls home. We didn't know that spore would, and saw no good reason for it to do so.
I don't think that's true. I thought they were vocal about the game's DRM setup.

Don't get me wrong, I'm in no way in favor of DRM. However, I really like the conveniences STEAM offers. Conveniences such as playing whatever game I want wherever. Sure, I gotta install it if it's not there, but if it is, BAM I'm away to the races. I <3 Steam.
That's part of the problem. There are so many fanboys of Valve (and/or Steam) that they don't objectively look at the issues. What kills me the most is, considering what Steam is, they could -very- easily manage which accounts own which keys. They just don't because they (and the 3rd parties they represent) are greedy and want everyone to buy their own copy. I can't even give my legit purchase to a friend or family member because -they- say I can't.
 
So when Steam goes belly-up, and even if they provide a unlocker patch... just hope you never have to re-install a game you paid for.

Even though I have an internet connection 99% of the time, when I travel I rarely have an internet connection. I decided to buy the Orange Box when it came out. I was traveling on a business trip to some little po-dunk town. I tried to install HL2 (a single-player offline-only game), but couldn't even get past the first install screen. Apparently, it needed an internet connection to even INSTALL the fucking game (when the disc had the entire install right on it!). That was the longest week I've ever had. Thanks Steam... really appreciate that one. I have boycotted Steam ever since. Too bad, because I would really like to buy L4D. Guess they would rather not have my money. :p

The best DRM for legit customers is NO DRM. The simple cd-check and/or a license key seems to be the best approach in my experience.

I think a digital distribution with the ability to back up your licensed software to an optical disc helps customers protect their investment. Let me buy a key and download my copy. (better be cheaper since I'm not getting anything physical) :p Unlicensed installs would then be a hobbled version (i.e. demo).
 
LOL I like how Newell completely ignores his own DRM, that goes one step worse: preventing resale. I do think Steam is DRM, especially since off-line mode rarely works and I have to log into Steam each Windows session I want to play a game (saved password or not, it's calling home each time). People cried about EA proposing that Spore would call home every couple of weeks. My Steam session calls home every time I start it. :p

Last I checked Spore doesn't do that and I can still resell all my EA games. Down with "bad" DRM and long live "good" (the very restrictive type) DRM. :rolleyes:

Precisely. "Gabe" just says what's best for him and Valve. Nothing more. He trashes other DRM schemes, while touting Steam, which IS also DRM. I honestly don't understand how people give Gabe any kind of credit for the remarks he has made about DRM, without seeing the obvious conflict of interests.
 
Steam is just the better side of DRM, but all DRM is still bad news for consumers. I'm not going to support crappy DRM just because it's less crappy than other DRM.

I disagree. The benefits of steam far outweigh its cons (seeing as the only con people have of steam here is that it is DRM - but DRM itself isn't inherently evil, just its implementations thus far are)

Steam still installs if you buy a retail copy and you still have to register your CD key, allow it to phone home every time you get on to verify you have a valid key...

Only for Valve games.


That's all fine, but there's already programs out there that do this kind of stuff. Xfire covers most of it, and most games (if not all games) gave free updates.

I don't really like XFire. It covers some of it, but its not very nice. For free updates, you had to watch for patches and then update yourself. Steam handles it all. It is much better integrated, and works much better.

That's part of the problem. There are so many fanboys of Valve (and/or Steam) that they don't objectively look at the issues.

So anyone that disagrees with you is a "fanboy for Valve and/or Steam"? And fanboys are unable to be objective? bwahahahaha. Make a valid point, please.

What kills me the most is, considering what Steam is, they could -very- easily manage which accounts own which keys. They just don't because they (and the 3rd parties they represent) are greedy and want everyone to buy their own copy. I can't even give my legit purchase to a friend or family member because -they- say I can't.

Valve has added the ability to give games as gifts, and games that are part of a bundle which you already own can also be given as gifts (so if you owned HL2 and bought orange box, you could give away a copy of HL2), which wasn't there initially. Selling games may be an upcoming feature. Have you tried requesting it? I also don't think selling games is a highly demanded feature
 
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