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FX 9590 Facts I have one
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Cable management is a matter of (semi) professional pride. Any man is free to do or not do whatever/however they want, but by interacting with other folks you agree to be judged for it.
Such is life. You don't have to care, which if fine too, but don't be shocked when someone calls something ragged looking, ragged looking.
Years ago I was an electrician's apprentice and it was impressed upon me the importance of neat and tidy work, in addition to functionality, by a lot of very talented old guys I respected a lot. And electrical inspectors that wouldn't pass a shoddy looking job.
So if I build a computer, even if no man ever lays eyes on other than me, it'll be clean and tidy.
It is in my opinion a matter of self respect and professionalism. I apply such to everything I can in life.
Such is life. You don't have to care, which if fine too, but don't be shocked when someone calls something ragged looking, ragged looking.
Years ago I was an electrician's apprentice and it was impressed upon me the importance of neat and tidy work, in addition to functionality, by a lot of very talented old guys I respected a lot. And electrical inspectors that wouldn't pass a shoddy looking job.
So if I build a computer, even if no man ever lays eyes on other than me, it'll be clean and tidy.
It is in my opinion a matter of self respect and professionalism. I apply such to everything I can in life.
I can understand it when you're doing electrical work in a house. I used to install cable services and network cabling and the worst jobs were the ones where some previous cable guy decided to pull wires indiscriminately. I recently spent two hours at someone's business just cleaning up 30 or so zip-tied hand-coiled network lines and a few different network devices that were sitting in a massive pile on a desk that someone worked at. It still didn't look great when I left because you just can't get wires treated like that to look good anymore, but the desk was clean and a proper shelf to hold the network equipment was in place.
I've owned a computer repair shop for the past seven years or so. I have seen other people doing the same work go to great lengths to advertise that they'll perform this wonderful cable management service on customer computers, complete with all kinds of photographs of before and after work. It's undeniable that it looks better, but it's utterly pointless.
- Customers don't care. They don't look inside their computers.
- It doesn't "improve airflow" despite assertions to the contrary. Technically, perhaps, but this isn't a physics class, it's a big metal box with more empty space than wires.
- When you go back in there to perform maintenance for any reason, you've created more work for yourself. Cutting zip ties is annoying, particularly if all you're trying to do is pull a bad hard drive for replacement.
- Even after you explain all of this, customers still don't care. They'll shove it in a computer desk behind a door and never look at it again until it busts.
Granted, every once in a while there's a situation that calls for a zip tie or two. Sometimes the layout makes a little management necessary, especially if you're wrangling six SATA cables and all the power wires that go with 'em and some of them want to feed themselves to the CPU fan when you're not looking. There may even be a place in cable management for brand new machines you'll be selling to customers because you can crack them open and they'll see a clean-looking interior that's suitable for a marketing photo...if cracking them open is part of the sales pitch, that is. In my practical experience having worked on well over 1,000 machines, I find that the professional pride flavor of cable management in custom desktop PCs is my enemy far more than my friend. Poking diagonal cutters into wires at weird angles and carefully chopping zip ties apart wastes my time. There's also the risk that the cutters will nick one of the wires. I've also seen a couple of cable management scenarios where they have put excessive pressure on power connectors causing them to slowly pull back off or damaging the drive they're plugged into.
The bottom line is that I view computers from a pragmatic angle. They are tools. They are glorious tools that are fun to build and play with, but in the end they are no different than "daily driver" cars: a means to an end. If you enjoy having clear panels and lights and clean cable management and showing your badass rig off, I'm not knocking that. I can appreciate that kind of work. If appearance is really important to you, who am I to say otherwise? My point is that none of that stuff matters to me or to any of the people we build computers for, because they're tools. An interesting case choice for the 16-year-old gamer kids is sufficient; actually, the HAF 912 I built this FX-9590 in is a real hit with them because it looks great without trying to be "flashy." I have yet to meet a single person face-to-face in all the time I've built and repaired computers that cared about cable management, and I guarantee you that it's because at the end of the day, all those pretty wires that are zip-tied 15 times to the chassis will end up living where no one will ever see any of it until the machine needs servicing, at which point they've become a nuisance.
In the end, they'll all end up in this pile anyway:
Different strokes for different folks. I'm just an opinionated and pragmatic person; that doesn't mean I'm right, just that I'm convincing. As for how hot the air-cooled FX-9590 is, I'll let the computer do the talking. I should point out that below a certain threshold, these AMD chips' internal temperature sensors put out numbers that are obviously too low. They seem to show correct figures once they go above room temperature. The really hot maximum that you see is probably a power MOSFET temperature sensor on the motherboard; they can really cook with this chip at full blast (keep in mind it took many hours of x264 to get those peaks!)
Looking at those temps I think you're cooking your motherboard. The M5A really isn't cut out for that CPU.
ASUS M5A99FX PRO R2.0 AM3+ AMD 990FX + SB950
M5A99FX PRO R2.0 supported CPUs - FX-9590
The board was designed to be able to work with this chip. It has extra MOSFETs and huge heatsinks on all the MOSFETs specifically to handle the 220W chips. I'm not worried about MOSFETs under hours of 100% load reaching a peak of 82C. Here, have a look at the MOSFET cooling (big blue heatsink beneath the blue CPU fan)...
I built an fx 6100 for a friend with that board. I really liked it. The bios is what made me switch to this board as my old gigabyte ud5 did not have uefi bios and yes that board is more than capable of running and even overclocking your power hog of a cpu.
Araxie
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lol Not with that rig in your sig you don't..
don't feed trolls.. people like him should be ignored.. =)..
My brand new FX-8350 for $120 on Amazon, the Intel equivalent is x3 the price.
not really.. a 4690K its right now at 210$@amazon and it will game with a huge difference vs a FX8350.. (gaming of course) in fact gaming a little 99$ i3 4150 can offer similar gaming performance vs a stock FX8350..
I love my 8350 but we have to be clear that intel have a gargantuan difference in gaming performance vs AMD FX chips..
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The AMD FX-9590 chip is $199 on NeweggBusiness right now. Here's my price-to-performance comparison of the FX-9590 (when it was $250 or so) against Intel offerings:
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Araxie
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The AMD FX-9590 chip is $199 on NeweggBusiness right now. Here's my price-to-performance comparison of the FX-9590 (when it was $250 or so) against Intel offerings:
and that's the reason why i said exclusively "gaming".. you can make any graph of any kind of price/performance but the fact that when we speak about entirely gaming a simple 99$ 2c/4t i3 can offer similar and or superior gaming performance in a lot of scenarios.. but also you shouldn't forget the price of the FX9590 at launch ranging from 880 to 920$ OEM and pre-assemblers only and a few etailers sold units at +800$... and still can't outperform a 2012 i7 2600K when i bought my FX8350 in december 2012 it had a hard time trying to catch my [email protected] things only got worse after I overclocked my 2600K at 4.8ghz, i still have the FX8350 and as i said I love that chip (specially for Server/VM which is the use im giving to it) but no matter if have it overclocked at 4.8ghz or 5ghz. ins't anything close to match my 4.5ghz 3770K and a big tad of performance behind my 4930K.. price/performance doesn't mean all the history.. and as gamer, gaming performance its completely important to me and that's why my personal machine its a intel platform and not AMD as 2 of my work machines.. and that's why FX chips are quickly underpriced in comparison to intel chips.. wherever we want to think or not the FX9590 was a 900$ chip at launch..
Gaming performance of CPUs beyond mid-range is largely irrelevant today. The human eye is physically incapable of seeing a difference once you're past 50-60 frames per second and the CPU money is better spent on a GPU and better input devices if gaming is the workload being performed.
Follow-up: I reset the numbers 15+ minutes into two separate edit/transcodes (black bars being in the video stream are so annoying) and ran a 1080p video just to add to the fire. The numbers still don't bother me...thoughts?
EDIT: OHM read the bus clock wrong when I reset it, so the displayed MHz speeds aren't right. I reset it again but don't feel like taking more screenshots right now.
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That's akin to saying one can treat people badly since they are going to die one day and be forgotten anyway.
Principle is about all we really have when you get through the BS.
And it has zero to do with other people, only one's self.
If you're ok with it then great.
Yes, and the only game I've ever played was Pinball in Windows 2000. Intel K-series don't support VT-d, you have to pay $300+ for a CPU without disabled features, that's a game I don't like either.
ASUS M5A99FX PRO R2.0 AM3+ AMD 990FX + SB950
M5A99FX PRO R2.0 supported CPUs - FX-9590
The board was designed to be able to work with this chip. It has extra MOSFETs and huge heatsinks on all the MOSFETs specifically to handle the 220W chips. I'm not worried about MOSFETs under hours of 100% load reaching a peak of 82C. Here, have a look at the MOSFET cooling (big blue heatsink beneath the blue CPU fan)...
That board wasn't designed to handle that chip. It was released way before the 9590 was even thought of and originally had a designated 140W TDP IIRC. I own one of these boards and it may run your CPU at stock but it's not an Overclocking board first off. And secondly you're running it way too hot I'm surprised it's not throttling TBH.
The board manufacturer says the board and the CPU are compatible. I put them together. I have been running them together for over a month. I've run them at 100% or near-100% load on all 8 cores for days at a time and nothing has crashed. My real-world experience and the motherboard manufacturer both say you're wrong. Do you have citations for "not an overclocking board" and "you're running it way too hot" by some chance?
To be honest I could care less what you do with your parts. I have the board and experience with it. I also have a 9370 and I personally wouldn't run it in that board.
Check the specs section here you'll see it's a 140W TDP. http://www.microcenter.com/product/395441/M5A99FX_PRO_R20_Socket_AM3_990FX_ATX_AMD_Motherboard
The support for that CPU has only recently been added to that board and personally I think it's a mistake but that didn't stop manufacturers in the past. I'm sure you can still find some 3 and 4 phase boards that list 8 core compatibility doesn't mean in real life you're going to have a good experience.
Initially only the Sabertooth and CHV-z had those CPUs in their support list. There's a reason for that, they have the "design" to actually handle them. The M5A has a hard time with anything over 4.5G IMO. Do yourself a favour and at least get a fan on the back of that board to move some of the heat out away from the VRM
Here's a prime example ASRock 970 PRO3 R2.0 4+1 phase board with no heatsinks. Support list Would you really want to run an 8 core on this board?
Check the specs section here you'll see it's a 140W TDP. http://www.microcenter.com/product/395441/M5A99FX_PRO_R20_Socket_AM3_990FX_ATX_AMD_Motherboard
The support for that CPU has only recently been added to that board and personally I think it's a mistake but that didn't stop manufacturers in the past. I'm sure you can still find some 3 and 4 phase boards that list 8 core compatibility doesn't mean in real life you're going to have a good experience.
Initially only the Sabertooth and CHV-z had those CPUs in their support list. There's a reason for that, they have the "design" to actually handle them. The M5A has a hard time with anything over 4.5G IMO. Do yourself a favour and at least get a fan on the back of that board to move some of the heat out away from the VRM
Here's a prime example ASRock 970 PRO3 R2.0 4+1 phase board with no heatsinks. Support list Would you really want to run an 8 core on this board?
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That board is not a 990FX chipset and doesn't have fat heatsinks on the VRMs and chipset like the M5A99FX Pro R2.0, so your comparison is not even relevant. There's a big difference between the M5A97 LE R2.0 and the M5A99FX Pro R2.0. Those differences are why the latter works with the 220W chips and the former doesn't. Manufacturers saying they support 140W TDP processors doesn't mean the 220W chips don't work, especially since the FX-9590 is almost exactly the same as a FX-8370 clocked at 4.7 GHz. If "the M5A has a hard time with anything over 4.5G[Hz]" then I'll take that as agreement that the M5A99FX Pro R2.0 with its enhancements over the other M5A series boards is more than sufficient running a CPU clocked at 4.7 GHz. I'm sure it also helps that my power supply was carefully selected to work well with this combination.
As I've said to all the previous naysayers, I've had this combo put together and running for over a month straight with no power-off, with about half the total runtime spent at full CPU load. If it won't or can't work, why does it work and continue to work without a single issue? Consider the possibility that you might have drawn incorrect conclusions about this setup based on limited knowledge or experience. Your experience with lower-end M5A series boards and overclocking them isn't necessarily representative of a higher-end version of the same board with a processor that has a much higher stable stock frequency from the factory.
ManofGod
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Waits for a thread about why the users mainboard VRM's blew up in the next year or so.
You may want to see who you are speaking about before you go spouting crap about him. That person knows more about these boards and overclocking than most folks here combined.Now, can he be wrong sometimes? Sure. But, your max temps on the CPU are beyond specifications so good luck with that. If it works for years, great. However, I doubt very much that it will, good luck. Realize also that it is not summer but winter.
Waits for a thread about why the users mainboard VRM's blew up in the next year or so.
Now, can he be wrong sometimes? Sure. But, your max temps on the CPU are beyond specifications so good luck with that. If it works for years, great. However, I doubt very much that it will, good luck. Realize also that it is not summer but winter.
Before reading the rest of this post, I want to apologize if I have been disrespectful.
I switched to a different monitoring program and installed AMD Overdrive. The FX-9590 is hovering at 58C-59C and has been at full load for at least six hours straight. AMD Overdrive reports that all my cores have roughly 11 degrees of thermal margin before throttling. Apparently the high max temperatures that I never see in person are the result of a glitch and OHM hasn't been updated in over a year. The chip turned out to be running cooler than expected with thermal headroom to spare!
As for it being winter, how do you know that I don't live in Australia?
The point I was making with the Asrock board was that the manufacturers recommendations and the real world are two different things. I also realize that the 9590 would likely run in that board as long as you leave it all on auto. Those power savers and core droppers will work to keep it cooler under normal circumstances. Asus assume that most will likely game or surf and not have their CPU pegged at full speed 24/7. I'd be very curious to see the results of P95 blend on your set-up TBH. I tested mine with the 9370, I didn't like the stress it put on the power section. Now it has an 8320 in it at 4.5 on air and sits in my living room as an HTPC/Gamer.
Like I said earlier, those aren't my parts or my money invested, you can do with them what you like. You can ignore me and all the other naysayers, we're only trying to help you avoid the inevitable.
Waits for a thread about why the users mainboard VRM's blew up in the next year or so.
Now, can he be wrong sometimes? Sure. But, your max temps on the CPU are beyond specifications so good luck with that. If it works for years, great. However, I doubt very much that it will, good luck. Realize also that it is not summer but winter.
Thanks for the kind words ManofGod, nice to see I'm not the only one.
I guess that only time will tell!
I just noticed your last post, that's good you tried a different program. It's not the core temps that are the concern though it's the socket temps that are going to be an issue and the board will throttle for other reasons than core temp. If it feels you're drawing to much current through the power section or the VRM get too warm it will throttle as well. If you monitor core speed under load and see it dip to 3400 MHz that will tell you if it's throttling or not.
I have single cores drop to the 1400 MHz range periodically, but I'm also running a bunch of x264 encodes which don't necessarily use 100% CPU on all cores 100% of the time. I'm more keen to assign a periodic single-core MHz drop to sampling near the beginning or end of two separate frame encodes. AMD Overdrive seems to tell me that I'm not throttling. Honestly, even if I was throttling, the beast is encoding way faster than my Phenom II X4 965 and that's all I wanted, so I'm not too worried about it. I hear you on the socket temperature though; it doesn't like to go above 75. Even "high airflow" cases seem to lack ways to cool the bottom of the motherboard. Perhaps some thermal pads and aluminum foil on the bottom of the board will help.
Before reading the rest of this post, I want to apologize if I have been disrespectful.
I switched to a different monitoring program and installed AMD Overdrive. The FX-9590 is hovering at 58C-59C and has been at full load for at least six hours straight. AMD Overdrive reports that all my cores have roughly 11 degrees of thermal margin before throttling. Apparently the high max temperatures that I never see in person are the result of a glitch and OHM hasn't been updated in over a year. The chip turned out to be running cooler than expected with thermal headroom to spare!
As for it being winter, how do you know that I don't live in Australia?
Interesting, AOD doesn't show core temps, just "Thermal Margin". Also the core temps seem way too low, like 15C at idle, so are not really temps but # of degrees to throttle?
AMD chip temperature sensors report temps that are obviously way off (like 20C-30C below room temperature) until they hit a certain bottom threshold. I used OHM and HWInfo64 to get the reported CPU temperatures. The thermal margin reported in AOD is the number of degrees remaining before throttling happens, but the weird core temps in other programs are just the screwy temperature sensing in modern AMD chips.
To get the real core temp you need an offset of +15
The CoreTemp app in Windows allows offsets, so does the Sensors applet in Linux Mint.
Intel CPU temps oscillate too at low temps, but they stabilize above 40C.
You all realize that stressing the cpu for hours (and stable with sable temps) is not the same as gaming or even encoding movies. He is fine and his board is fine. Also having acces to ln2 does not make you an overclocking know it all. No disrespect on that Johan. Leave the guy alone. His board is fine @ stock and Ide say he could even over clock a bit although with a better cpu cooler. I was over clocking my 486 PC.and overchip water cooling with a water block siliconed directly to the cpu on my old K2 and 3"s What...? No ln2 though.
Araxie
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yes, this its true but not always, in general all of my intel machines are pretty good calibrated but no my personal 3770K as this thing have a +5C offset peak temp in long idle.. its weird to see sometimes idling even 5 degrees under ambient temp.. but the sensors are OK under any type of load..
I have single cores drop to the 1400 MHz range periodically, but I'm also running a bunch of x264 encodes which don't necessarily use 100% CPU on all cores 100% of the time. I'm more keen to assign a periodic single-core MHz drop to sampling near the beginning or end of two separate frame encodes. AMD Overdrive seems to tell me that I'm not throttling. Honestly, even if I was throttling, the beast is encoding way faster than my Phenom II X4 965 and that's all I wanted, so I'm not too worried about it. I hear you on the socket temperature though; it doesn't like to go above 75. Even "high airflow" cases seem to lack ways to cool the bottom of the motherboard. Perhaps some thermal pads and aluminum foil on the bottom of the board will help.
This is what I did behind the mobo for some air movement. It helped a lot more than you would think. It's a small chipset fan but any stock cpu cooler fan wold work. Held in place with double sided tape.
Here's something else that will add some airflow over the top.
I wasn't trying to come off as an expert, I was trying to get nctritech to address a temperature issue with his motheboard. 80+c is too much for that socket for extended periods of time. I felt his mobo wasn't really cut out for the task and caused a bit of defensiveness. The rest of it was just my opinion of the M5A, which I do own in the same revision and that manufacturers aren't always the most reliable when it come to recommended CPUs. In my experience I have seen way too many people come to forums for help with issues that stem from not getting the proper parts initially to OC an 8 core FX not realizing how power hungry and hot they really can be.
ManofGod
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In my experience, I would say that is a good thing that the fans will spin slower. On my setup that I was overclocking on, the core temp would be fine but the socket temp would sky rocket causing the fans on my Thermaltake Water 2.0 Pro to run at full speed which was not good at all.
The fan on the back is an excellent idea since it will keep the socket temps down.
If the socket is overheating it means you're going beyond the mobo's design specification. You're essentially fooling the mobo into assuming that everything is OK. While at the same time the CPU's onboard sensor starts throttling. The 2 sensors should read about the same, the socket about 2 degrees C higher, due to delayed heat transfer.
ManofGod
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Good luck with that because the 2 sensors at best read 10 C apart. The socket temps include the VRMs to the socket temp will always be higher. Cooling the socket area is very, very important in an overclocked scenario.
It's fine if you like overclocking as a hobby. But when you increase CPU frequency & voltage you can go beyond the components' design specification and risk melting your parts. The little fans will only delay the meltdown. Also socket temp does not include VRMs, they're separate components, the Sabertooth R2.0 has 2 separate sensors for the VRMs.
The socket temp sensor is embedded in the socket itself, you can't cool the sensor without cooling the socket. You're right this doesn't include the VRM circuits but their heat affects the socket as well through transference. The air movement behind the board though will help in cooling the VRM chips that you see to the right of the socket in that pic. Ideally you would cut a hole in your side panel and mount a fan to it but IMO any air movement behind the board is beneficial.
Johan I didn't mean to come across like that. I read that today on my phone at work and that didn't come out like I wanted. You are an expert imo and I love looking at your overclock posts and pics. Everyone was on the guy about his main board with that cpu. So a few after work beers and thats what I posted.
No harm done, well permanently any way.
It takes a lot more than that to really get under my skin. I realize I was at the guy a bit but it's hard for me not to point things out when I think it could end badly.
@ Eagle
Ya we're all good here it's safe to come out.
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