Future of Blu-Ray vs Streaming?

Flybye

Limp Gawd
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I stopped collecting BRs and stopped using my entertainment PC a while back because of how convenient all the streaming and saving of movies on the DVR was. I’ve gotten pretty annoyed with my new TV service deciding to only keep recordings for 90 days. Lately I’ve also gotten annoyed at certain movies not even being available. So going back to having a media PC is back on my mind.

You guys think it’s worth collecting media again or is externally recording movies on a media PC and backing up on a NAS the better option?
 

staknhalo

[H]ard|Gawd
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Let me introduce you to our friend Plex.... you can both use it as a DVR and to archive/store/stream your own media, in addition to TV and DVR recordings. Basically, you make your own in house streaming service.

https://www.plex.tv/
 

Aurelius

2[H]4U
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Blu-ray doesn't have much of a future at this point.

Yeah, a well-done disc will have great quality, but as we've seen with a few streaming services (Disney+ as an example), you don't need physical media to get a quality picture.

And then there's the very nature of owning physical copies. Sure, owning a tangible version of a movie makes sense when you're a twentysomething with a small collection and all the free time to watch movies... but you'll regret it later when you're settling down in a house and have to move and find room for your 100-disc collection. And as someone who's trying to be eco-conscious, the thought of wasting plastic on a two-hour video is a bit much.

This isn't to downplay issues of DRM or whether or not you really 'own' a digital movie, but the balance definitely leans toward streaming and downloads for me.
 

LukeTbk

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And as someone who's trying to be eco-conscious, the thought of wasting plastic on a two-hour video is a bit much.
I think it change with server becoming much more efficient, but at least at first It did depend how often you watched a movie :

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For a single view streaming tended to have an advantage over a dvd you made a car drive specially for it, but for a disney movie kids watch 10 times during their life, not has obvious, specially in the OP scenario of having an desktop to make your home plex server.

You guys think it’s worth collecting media again or is externally recording movies on a media PC and backing up on a NAS the better option?
The advantage of a NAS type solution with the nice interfaces available on all device with the next episode of a series that play, versus what are usually terrible interface of bluray players (with unskippable message and so on), make the media PC really hard to beat, I usually do not take time to get the bluray of the movies instead of simply firing them on plex, once they are ripped I could get rid of them, it is like said above a lot of space. It became nice if you like the objects and their presentation, i.e. really up to you.

Or if you want 4K 100 gig bluray, streaming do not get close to that and the hard drive cost to keep 2 version of them on disk could become relevant.
 

staknhalo

[H]ard|Gawd
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Or if you want 4K 100 gig bluray, streaming do not get close to that and the hard drive cost to keep 2 version of them on disk could become relevant.

Tonemapping is already here with limited device compatibility support ATM, but Plex devs on forums have said much more broadly supported/compatible implementations is in the works (to work with Synology Nas and such for example - which don't all work well OOB with current method).

No reason to keep sep 1080p/2160p versions anymore/soon enough.
 

TheSlySyl

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I take 100% blu-ray rips and then re-encode them with x265 for 4k HDR and AAC 7.1 surround (I don't have a good enough audio system to deal with lossless.). The end result size is about 6-10GB per hour for movies and slightly less than that for TV (about 3-4gigs per 45 minute episode). Looks way, way better than streaming and you can fit a surprising amount on 10TB+ drives.
 

staknhalo

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I take 100% blu-ray rips and then re-encode them with x265 for 4k HDR and AAC 7.1 surround (I don't have a good enough audio system to deal with lossless.). The end result size is about 6-10GB per hour for movies and slightly less than that for TV (about 3-4gigs per 45 minute episode). Looks way, way better than streaming and you can fit a surprising amount on 10TB+ drives.

I encode my DVDs to h.264 @ whatever their native bitrate reports, Blu-rays h.264 @ up to 15mbps and just got a 5950x so I can start encoding some of these 4k Blu-rays in cold storage to h.265 @ up to 45mbps (I'll use Staxrip to keep HDR/HDR10+, will keep orig rips of Dolby Vision titles and look into how to encode Dolby Vision - software/parameters - after I'm done recouping a lot of this HDD space. I should only be at about 12TB of 1080p movies/shows ATM, the rest is all taken up by UHD rips waiting to be encoded).

I encode cause I don't have to worry about forced subs this way - it's burned into the video stream; and I live in a condo, I'm not installing a fucking rack and dealing with 400,000 HDDs. I like having a small 4-bay Synology instead. Also it cuts the black bars out of titles that don't have/go fullscreen 16:9. I always hated that, on phones and computers (windowed) when watching a video file.

1612747218152.png
 
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TheSlySyl

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I have it all inside my one (admittedly, quite large) computer case. I got a motherboard that has 8 SATA ports and a case that can easily handle 10+ HDDs cause Plex was a large part of my build.
 

staknhalo

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I have all my Plex media data on the NAS + redundantly backed up on separate drives in my computer (latter where the image is from). 6 drives for media across the two is enough for me. I'll just upgrade drives/capacities as time passes.
 

TheSlySyl

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I just use Handbrake. I use a set of 4k x265 10-bit* settings I got off reddit, it's not too far from the default though.

CPU encode at "slow"
My 3900X crunches through them pretty fast, but I usually wait till night time to queue things up because it does use 100% of all 24 threads.

*if the original is 10-bit. If its not, then I encode 8-bit

I usually encode to an NVME, I don't think that makes much of a difference but it does make moving the file afterwards easier
 
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staknhalo

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I just use Handbrake. I use a set of 4k x265 10-bit* settings I got off reddit, it's not too far from the default though.

CPU encode at "slow"
My 3900X crunches through them pretty fast, but I usually wait till night time to queue things up because it does use 100% of all 24 threads.

*if the original is 10-bit. If its not, then I encode 8-bit

I usually encode to an NVME, I don't think that makes much of a difference but it does make moving the file afterwards easier

Handbrake doesn't do HDR. When encoding a 10bit file, handbrake first discards all 10bit information (which includes HDR) and converts down to 8bit as part of its encoding pipeline. It then expands back to 10-bit when writing the file, but all the actual 10bit information in the original source is lost as it was discarded by Handbrake earlier. You're just viewing 8bit file with better gradients in a Handbrake made 10bit file. Your TV or media player might see the file is ('fake') 10bit, and display an HDR badge because it thinks if it's 10bit it must be HDR, but it's not. You'll need to use another program (like Staxrip which I mentioned) to keep HDR in your encodes. If you don't believe me, here they are talking about the issue on the Handbrake github. Until this issue is marked closed and the fix (full 10bit encoding pipeline through the whole process without any 8bit down-conversion done) implemented, Handbrake will never do HDR.

https://github.com/HandBrake/HandBrake/issues/2729

https://github.com/HandBrake/HandBrake/issues/1307

You can see the contributors (devs) confirming what I told you in these posts, the #1307 issue is the one that will mean HDR is doable when it's closed/implemented (so the one you'd want to keep track of).

I only use Handbrake for Blu-rays/DVDs ATM because of this.
 

TheSlySyl

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Well that's disappointing if true.

Are you sure though? Cause it seems like that's relating to a much older version of handbrake. My rips look absolutely fantastic and full HDR when I direct play them.

I turned off "badges" on the tv as one of the very first things I did when I got it.
 

staknhalo

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handbrake. My rips look absolutely fantastic and full HDR when I direct play them.

The #1307 issue is still marked 'open', that means it's not in any version of Handbrake, old or new, no matter how long ago the issue was first noticed/added to github tracker. Only when it's marked closed, will the version released after it's marked closed (for example, might not be the very next release, but usually is - whether nightly or stable build). You can also see all the repeat/similar issues since/recent that have been merged with that issue (meaning it's all related to no true 10bit pipeline throughout in Handbrake).

They might look good to you, but it is literally and physically impossible they have any HDR metadata in them for the reasons described.

Just saw this was added yesterday to the bottom of the issue if you look:

A few improvements landed on master branch (and are available in the nightly builds):

  • 10 bit pipeline if there is no 8bit only filter enabled and the selected encoder is 10bit;
  • HDR10 static metadata passthrough;
  • Colorspace filter (using the FFmpeg tonemap filter, which is not the best, and does not implement BT.2390 yet).

So, none of your existing encodes are true 10bit/HDR, but it looks like you might be able to use the latest nightly from yesterday on to achieve it. It would mean re-encoding everything you've done from the original sources though.
 

TheSlySyl

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Well fuck.

I've been on nightly builds for ages. I knew that I needed that for 10-bit going in.
I Only started re-encoding for HDR last summer when I got my 3900X and a true HDR TV.

I'm gonna do some more research and see if changing the encoding actually does anything for my files, I usually delete the original files after encoding them for space reasons...
 
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Yes I believe 4k UHD disc are worth collecting. I get annoyed there isn't more titles available. In the same way consoles have numbed down expectations the push to all things streaming is failing the end users too. Look no further than the availability of optical drives or cases to put them in or for that matter CPUs and GPUs that support UHD playback let alone uncompressed multi channel audio. Streaming is a sticky mess at best. Then there is source material, UHD disks are the bomb and no matter how you transcode it for streaming involves compromise.

Nothing beats a dedicate quality AV receiver, a quality 4k UHD blu-ray player with a 4k Blu-Ray Disc for movies. Besides Too many hoops to jump through getting a media server to work it will never perform nearly as well with audio or video no matter how hard you try or how successful you are at doing it Even with the best software and hardware available today or IMHO near future a media PC is inferior to a dedicated Home Theater set up and I might add if streaming is your bag or side venue then all modern AV receivers do that well too and has better audio support as well. I have Roku Ultimate and NVIDIA Shield 2 connected to my HT and anything from my PCs files can be cast or streamed through multiple avenues to my HT setup.

I liken it to nothing replaces a dedicated gaming PC not even a console and nothing replaces a dedicated HT not even a media PC.

Bottom Line You can't get blood from a turnip
 

Flybye

Limp Gawd
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... I get annoyed there isn't more titles available..
This is EXACTLY what I am worried about. I own a few obscure audio CDs that don’t even exist in the streaming world. A few years ago it happened to me with a movie I wanted to watch. I had to mail it to me from Netflix to watch it because it couldn’t be streamed anywhere. At some point people will come across some oddball movie they missed that they want to watch again but can’t because it doesn’t exist online.

You are 100% right about physical media and a media PC. I never had a problem with DVDs, but some blu-rays were picky as hell about the hardware. They would work in the PS4 but not in the PC.

Thank you everyone! I need to look into Plex and figure out what direction to take.
 

flegg

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Since when is Disney+ touted as a high quality?
Amazon 4k Firestick plays shows like the expanse pretty decently if your internet is fast.
HTPC with eARC (or cloned hdmi 2.1 out) to high quality AVR can produce what a quality 4k UHD blu-ray player can
 

defaultluser

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I can tell the difference between 1080p and 4k when PC gaming in my C7, but I can't tell the difference between 1080p and 4k local video. Thanks to Chroma sub-sampling, you're unlikely to be able to see that much color detail anyway...and if half the movies I'm interested in (animation and effects-heavy movies,most of which are 2k native anyway)) are just adding HDR as a post effect, I just don't see the need

Real Outdoor HDR also tends to wear on my eyes way more quickly than watching SDR, so I just can't see the benefit of buying and ripping those (would never watch them); going to keep ripping regular Blurays to add to my library, have a lifetime BlueRay copy from DVD fab
 
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LukeTbk

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I can tell the difference between 1080p and 4k when PC gaming in my C7, but I can't tell the difference between 1080p and 4k local video
I feel that is probably "common", for 4K to be visibly different than 1080p at equal bitrate during blind test experiment it start to not look worst around 50mbits and better around 80 mbits, I imagine a lot of content is not high quality of compression enough to make use of the added resolution.

While gaming is pretty much uncompressed 20 gbits type of signal.
 

Verge

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I feel that is probably "common", for 4K to be visibly different than 1080p at equal bitrate during blind test experiment it start to not look worst around 50mbits and better around 80 mbits, I imagine a lot of content is not high quality of compression enough to make use of the added resolution.

While gaming is pretty much uncompressed 20 gbits type of signal.
Most of the movie content is 2k DI, so it's very difficult to tell the difference. With native 4k movies, i can tell instantly.
 

PCMusicGuy

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I'll be sticking to physical formats. I have yet to see any streaming quality that matches up to a well encoded 1080p bluray. I also don't believe any streaming service offers lossless Atmos or DTS:X.
 

Commander Shepard

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I honestly can't remember the last time I bought or watched anything on BR or any physical media. I've been fully assimilated by the convenience of streaming.
 

vegeta535

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This is EXACTLY what I am worried about. I own a few obscure audio CDs that don’t even exist in the streaming world. A few years ago it happened to me with a movie I wanted to watch. I had to mail it to me from Netflix to watch it because it couldn’t be streamed anywhere. At some point people will come across some oddball movie they missed that they want to watch again but can’t because it doesn’t exist online.

You are 100% right about physical media and a media PC. I never had a problem with DVDs, but some blu-rays were picky as hell about the hardware. They would work in the PS4 but not in the PC.

Thank you everyone! I need to look into Plex and figure out what direction to take.
I think physical is going to die off soon. I don't see anything new on the horizon for physical media tech. The kids these days don't care for quality. Then want quantity and easy of use. Old ducks like me are dying breed that like to actually own my stuff. Not a stupid license that can be revoked at anytime or removed from a steaming site cause the studio wants to make their own service.
 

Domingo

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I'm on the streaming bandwagon. It's just way too convenient and with most movies, quality frankly doesn't matter. My biggest gripe with streaming is actually the sound. Whatever the hell compression most services are using seems to make the dialogue super quiet and everything else super loud. I have to crank the volume to hear a conversation and then a dog barking or car starting suddenly makes my walls shake. That doesn't happen with any non-streaming platforms on my TV/AVR.
 

staknhalo

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I'm on the streaming bandwagon. It's just way too convenient and with most movies, quality frankly doesn't matter. My biggest gripe with streaming is actually the sound. Whatever the hell compression most services are using seems to make the dialogue super quiet and everything else super loud. I have to crank the volume to hear a conversation and then a dog barking or car starting suddenly makes my walls shake. That doesn't happen with any non-streaming platforms on my TV/AVR.

I know it's not the optimal solution at all but that's what DRC is for if it's really a problem
 
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