Fury won't beat 980Ti, much less Titan

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ROShay

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If the Fury is using the same color compression mojo the R9 285 has, maybe 4Gb HBM @ 512 GB/s might have longer legs than we expect it to?

(Christ, I have entire computers that don't cost as much as these high-end cards.)
 

jamesgalb

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some of us actually want the Fury to succeed because we would prefer to fork over our hard earned cash to a company that isn't hell bent on proprietary tech and squeezing every last cent from their customer base, but AMD is making it extremely difficult right now. This is the last straw for alot of us if this launch turns out to be another Bulldozer. AMD could easily squash all these negative rumors and put an end to these type of threads if they only released some sort of performance leaks instead of more of the same bold claims without any 'real' data to back it up.

Yup. My last 2 GPUs were NVidia, and while I am in no way disappointed in them, I would rather spend my next purchase with a company I think is doing more for gaming and PCs... Unless AMD completely tanks it, I will likely be grabbing a 390x soon.
 

sk3tch

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It if was faster and we knew Nvidia was going to release the Ti, they could have leaked a slide with performance numbers that shows it can beat a Titan X.
Right there, AMD would have placed a hold on Ti sales. But they didn't, so all of the people that had their money ready has purchased a Ti.
Now AMD will only have the price sensitive crowd to buy their product, crying about if it was $50-100 cheaper they would buy it, but now they rather wait for some unannounced future card.

Nvidia knows how to separate it's fans form their money.

Slow clap for the bolded part. So true. So tired of people bitching and whining in the tech space regarding price. There's a product for every segment. If you can't afford XYZ then buy ABC and there ya go. Or - spend zero$ and wait your entire life as we enjoy our games.
 
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Amd is currently in a positions you dont wanna be in as a company.
I think the rumors that the new fiji cant defeat the 980 TI are true. Why i think that is becouse if that would not be the case, AMD would let us know that their new flagship will sweep the floor with the 980 TI to make sure people wait 2 weeks with spending their money.

I mean if i was AMD and i would know my product would be better, i would let everyone know right this moment, but if the product isnt better it might be smarter to stay quiet and lower the price they had in mind.

I mean, IF the new fuji has slightly less performance as the 980 TI but they would tell now it would be faster, even AMD fanboys would get mad at AMD for lying at them.

Kinda all AMD can do now is trying to get the price around 600 euro, make sure the cooler is silent and wont leak, and hurry up with the real next gen cards with smaller transistors.
 
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Yup. My last 2 GPUs were NVidia, and while I am in no way disappointed in them, I would rather spend my next purchase with a company I think is doing more for gaming and PCs... Unless AMD completely tanks it, I will likely be grabbing a 390x soon.

http://eu.msi.com/product/vga/R9-290X-GAMING-8G.html#hero-overview

Here you have one;);), nah seriously i hope they make something great with the new cards, we can use some competition, 4K gaming at 120hz still isnt happening soon but thats what we want:)
 

The Mac

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again, this is YOUR opinion. No one has the slighest idea what their strategy is, except them.

when you run a muli-billion dollar compnay, it might mean something.

lol
 

PRIME1

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again, this is YOUR opinion. No one has the slighest idea what their strategy is, except them.

when you run a muli-billion dollar compnay, it might mean something.

lol

At their current stock price AMD has a market cap of less than 2 billion, so they are no longer a "multi-billion" company. ;)
 

§kynet

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At their current stock price AMD has a market cap of less than 2 billion, so they are no longer a "multi-billion" company. ;)
Yea and if a sub multi-billion dollar company beats Nvidia and regains the performance crown what are you going to say then? Can't even beat a company with no money that is going out of business. Shameful and embarrassing for Nvidia don't you think? ;)
 

TaintedSquirrel

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"Update: Our sources close to AMD have reported that any reports of performance issues at this time are pointless. The GPU will launch at E3 – so we have something to look forward to very soon and will get a chance to see its final performance as well."

Hope it's priced well.
Otherwise it would suck to wait over a month for a card that isn't worth buying!
 

Dayaks

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At their current stock price AMD has a market cap of less than 2 billion, so they are no longer a "multi-billion" company. ;)

Oh god, oh god it burns.

The silence is deafening. 980ti launches and not even a leaked benchmark. I'm racking my brain and can't think of one good reason why AMD would hold out another 2 weeks unless the Fury is a flop. Maybe if the 980ti wasn't actually being sold in stores at the moment then the extra 2 weeks of suspense buildup might make sense, but why give your competitor an open field without any attempt to persuade them to double think their purchase.

What if the performance is better or equal to Titan x but the added cost of HBM doesn't allow AMD to price it competitively and the pricing of the 980ti caught them flat footed?

I don't think this surprised AMD. At least it shouldn't have. Most of [H] knew what was coming. Now they could be a pickle where their price/perf doesn't make sense but it shouldn't be surprising.
 

griff30

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Amd is currently in a positions you dont wanna be in as a company.
.

Advanced Micro Devices Enterprise Value:
3.152B for June 2, 2015
NASDAQ Jun 3, 3:31PM.

Yeah that's a horrible position.

 

n=1

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I don't think this surprised AMD. At least it shouldn't have. Most of [H] knew what was coming. Now they could be a pickle where their price/perf doesn't make sense but it shouldn't be surprising.

This is what I'm thinking as well. If AMD aimed to beat the Titan X, the 980 Ti is of no concern to them except the price. Because faster than Titan X by default means faster than 980 Ti. So I think if there was anything to be done in the next 2 weeks it would be to have their bean counters run the numbers and see what they could price Fiji at and still turn a profit.
 

jwcalla

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It's interesting that Charlie Demerjian was insisting as late as Sunday that -- based on his highly reliable "sources" -- the 980 Ti was nothing more than a higher-clocked (better binned) 980. "...it isn’t the big Maxwell the BS rumor sites listed a while ago..."

I wonder if AMD gets its info from Charlie.
 

n=1

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Well at least he admitted to being wrong instead of deleting the piece and pretending it never existed.

Update June 1, 2015 @ 7am: We got this one really wrong, we had several sets of specs sent to us with the clocks and a few other bits and we jumped to a conclusion that was wrong. There was a GM204 based GTX980Ti on the roadmaps last fall that Nvidia did not release for competitive reasons, and we assumed this was it. We were wrong, sorry about that. SemiAccurate needs at least two sources before publishing and while we had them this time, we screwed up badly on the bits that were not on the spec sheets. In penance I will be walking all over Taipei in the blistering heat and humidity until I learn. It may take a while.
 

Pieter3dnow

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Cannibalizing? Titan is a niche product and not to be sold in high volumes.

Nvidia did a great job giving a $1,000 card performance for ''just'' $650. They made it sound like its a bargain.

They are competing with their own products ...
 

PRIME1

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TSMC said they will be making 16nm GPUs at the end of the year, I'm guessing that's Pascal. So the shelf life of any of these cards is less than 6 months.
 

LurkerLito

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IMHO Nvidia priced the 980Ti at $650 to make sure AMD has no breathing room for Fiji. The one thing everyone knows is that Fiji + HBM will be expensive to make. And with the very real possibility that Fiji is stuck as a 4GB card, even if it performs on par with a full Titan X, Nvidia made sure that AMD could not find a more comfortable spot between the $550 980 and the $1000 Titan X. Now AMD has to try and fit it at or below the 980Ti @ $650. Unless it can out perform the Titan X by like 20% I can see very little hope of it selling decent numbers if it's over $600 w/ 4GB and that will really hurt AMD.

An interesting side note though is the main battle where AMD must sell well is with the 390 line since it'll compete with the lower priced 970 and 980 both stuck with 4GB of ram. It looks like they are gearing up for a battle of ram in that area. Though if AMD pushes RAM in the 390 line marketing then they sabotage their Fiji line if it is limited to 4GB. It's kind of an interesting conundrum for AMD.
 

Logan321

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Any flagship card has to have 6-8gigs minimum now. The push towards 4k gaming is changing the hardware requirements upwards.
 
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mls1995

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I wish AMD would be at least relevant to keep Nvidia honest. Excluding the Titan X, Nvidia prices have all been lower than expected. They have their boot on AMDs throat. If AMD gives up the ghost, Nvidia will have no reason to be competitive.
 

Derangel

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What makes more sense from Nvidia's perspective? Either:

a.) If they feel that the 980Ti isn't competitive with AMD's top-tier card, they release it ASAP in an attempt to sell as many as possible before it's too late.

b.) If they are confident that the 980Ti is clearly superior, they wait until just a few days before AMD launches their card to COMPLETELY upstage the Radeon.

I realize that some people are ready to buy something, and there is money to be made, but if I'm Nvidia, and I feel I've got the upper-hand, it sure seems like waiting until just before AMD is ready to launch would be the way to go.

I'm not interested in buying either, but if Nvidia knows it really does have the better card this time around it seems a little odd to me that they would release it now.

Whether they have the better card or not I see no reason for Nvidia not to release now. It puts a great card smack dab in the middle of two other good performing cards and drives a bunch of hype. Plus it also puts AMD in a tough position. They have to price around the 980 Ti now. The card is positioned so well that AMD will either have to price match or go $50 less. Unless the Fury X is a massive improvement over the 980 Ti and Titan X I don't know if pricing it above $650 will bring in the kind of numbers they want. If the entire 300 series really does end up being rebrands I wonder how that's going to go especially if the rumor prices on those rebrands is real. Unless Nvidia accidentally fell into exactly where AMD wanted I wouldn't be surprised if there is some serious discussion going on about GPU prices from the Red side right now.
 

Ducman69

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look. If it wont beat a 980ti... price it at 399 and ill go buy it over a 980ti lol
No shit, I care about frames/dollar, whatever can get me my desired minimum framerate at 3K resolution for the least of my hard earned money while being quiet.

If the card is 10% slower than a 980Ti but 25% cheaper, its a no brainer IMO.
 

TaintedSquirrel

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No shit, I care about frames/dollar, whatever can get me my desired minimum framerate at 3K resolution for the least of my hard earned money while being quiet.

If the card is 10% slower than a 980Ti but 25% cheaper, its a no brainer IMO.
Depending how it OC's you're better off with a 980.
 

Ducman69

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Any flagship card has to have 6-8gigs minimum now. The push towards 4k gaming is changing the hardware requirements upwards.
But we don't know for sure if HBM memory is a game changer, where you can do more with less.

There's also the factor of DX12/Mantle 2.0 buffer stacking, where a 4GB and 4GB card in crossfire don't have to be redundant and add up to a 8GB card working in concert. So I'm reserving judgement for the Windows 10 benchmarks.
 

AVogel

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The Titan vs 980Ti issue I am sure is a planned strategy, even if hurried a bit by rumored AMD release dates.

Pretty sure everyone who "really" wants a new Titan has one. Nvidia released it first knowing it could ride the wave of ultra-fanboy/Scrooge McDuck-swimming-in-his-money-vault hobbyist sales. The premium alone on this puppy probably covers the manufacturing cost. With the number of full-big Maxwell's surely being limited, Nvidia wouldn't rely on this halo product to drive the bulk of their sales. Now, the people who truly need massive SP performance will be the primary customers and Nvidia won't have to worry so much about "yeah its the best, if you can find one for sale and want to take out a second mortgage on your house".

Then they drop the 980Ti. Don't need the massive halo markup (but can still keep a decent fanboy premium), less stringent on the yield requirements, and half the RAM cuts production cost. The PR on the price alone will drive sales. Most of these sales will not cannibalize Titan, as they wouldn't have spent that much on a single card, anyway, or would have waited for Pascal.

Deciding to launch when they did was probably threading the supply chain needle. Any earlier and it would likely have been considered a paper launch. It ended up being perfect, though. They got the jump on AMD, and will now have 15 days in the spotlight, and apparently not so much as a peep of a rebuttal from the competition. People are now hammering F5 to check availability to actually BUY a 980Ti, while on the AMD side people are just checking once a day or so to see if there are any new rumors about the Fury.

At this point Nvidia is probably kicking themselves for spending as much as they did on market research and planning. AMD has pretty much defeated themselves. Nvidia could have done pretty much nothing but release their cards whenever and still won.

re the D3D12 unified memory thing..the API doesn't automatically do that, it simply allows for it. It is up to each individual game developer to implement it.
 

Dayaks

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Make sure everyone compares OC to OC. nVidia's cards have been OC'ing like mad... running my Titan X SLI at 1477 from stock boost around 1150 (+28%). Just started messing with voltage. If this is stable for a few more days I'll increase it further.

Nothing pisses me off more when they OC just the card they are reviewing and compare it against stock cards. At least [H] does OC vs OC reviews.
 
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I don't understand why people cant just wait a month then make an informed decision. Haven't been team green sense the GTX 8800 but this might be the year, glad I didnt lock myself on one side with a monitor purchase... which is bull btw
 

Logan321

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I don't understand why people cant just wait a month then make an informed decision. Haven't been team green sense the GTX 8800 but this might be the year, glad I didnt lock myself on one side with a monitor purchase... which is bull btw

I fully agree with this. Until there's a monitor that supports variable refresh on both cards and doesn't cost a small fortune extra for the privilege I'll be sticking with my asus 27" 2560x1440.
 

glenn37216

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This is no surprise. AMD can't get drivers to perform now ... what makes you think the next gen cards are going to be any better ?

-blind faith? Their new GM going to perform some gpu driver miracles ?... this I got to see .
 

YeuEmMaiMai

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^wow like Nvidia never has driver issues.... they are the only ones in the HISTORY of video cards that released a driver that caused fans to turn off and cards to burn up in the process....
 

cageymaru

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This is no surprise. AMD can't get drivers to perform now ... what makes you think the next gen cards are going to be any better ?

-blind faith? Their new GM going to perform some gpu driver miracles ?... this I got to see .

What driver issues? Are you talking about broken multiple card drivers? They are broken on both Nvidia and AMD when talking SLi and CrossfireX. Unless you're a fanboy you would know this. That's why real world users from both camps tell you to buy the fastest single card you can afford and be happy.

Single card works great on AMD unless you're talking about a GameWorks game. Then you have to wait a few days for AMD to workaround Nvidia's proprietary crap. If Nvidia didn't encrypt the libraries then AMD users could get superior performance to the complimentary Nvidia card from day one. GameWorks is Nvidia's way of staying relevant.

If you're talking about something else then you need to elaborate more.
 

David-Duc

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^wow like Nvidia never has driver issues.... they are the only ones in the HISTORY of video cards that released a driver that caused fans to turn off and cards to burn up in the process....

And amd is the only company that severly ignores pci-e specs in the making of the glorious 295X2 that can potentially burn your house down. Ignorance is bliss, letting connectors that are rated for 85 degree centigrade running at 90 won't be a problem at all. Running a 550W cards using 375W rated connector is just fine.
http://www.jonnyguru.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11497
 

Rauelius

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I could believe this, what price point will AMD offer it.

Well, they have 2 options. Repeat the Radeon 2900XT or repeat the Radeon 4870. The 2900XT was priced equal to it's nVidia competition, but ran hotter and performed worse. The Radeon 4870 could perform close or equal to the $650 GTX280, but only had an MSRP of $299.99.

I'd argue that the Radeon 4870 saved AMD, and the follow up top of the line card from them, the $329.99 Radeon 5870, solidified their comeback.

I don't think that AMD will price the Fury at $330 or even $400, but if AMD has any sense, the Fury-X would perform equal to or surpass Titan-X and be priced at $500. This would be a repeat of the 4870, with that card costing less than half of nVidia's top of the line single GPU card and performing roughly equal.

I would love AMD to embarrass nVidia again so bad that they have to send refund checks to GTX980 and GTX980Ti owners like they did with the GTX260 and GTX280.
 

LordEC911

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And amd is the only company that severly ignores pci-e specs in the making of the glorious 295X2 that can potentially burn your house down. Ignorance is bliss, letting connectors that are rated for 85 degree centigrade running at 90 won't be a problem at all. Running a 550W cards using 375W rated connector is just fine.
http://www.jonnyguru.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11497

Only? DId how did you forget about multiple Nvidia cards that went over spec?
Titan Z

You do realize the two extra pins on the 8pin PCI-e connector are grounds, right?
 

Rauelius

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What driver issues? Are you talking about broken multiple card drivers? They are broken on both Nvidia and AMD when talking SLi and CrossfireX. Unless you're a fanboy you would know this. That's why real world users from both camps tell you to buy the fastest single card you can afford and be happy.

Single card works great on AMD unless you're talking about a GameWorks game. Then you have to wait a few days for AMD to workaround Nvidia's proprietary crap. If Nvidia didn't encrypt the libraries then AMD users could get superior performance to the complimentary Nvidia card from day one. GameWorks is Nvidia's way of staying relevant.

If you're talking about something else then you need to elaborate more.

This is 100% on point. On paper my SLI'd GTX670 set up should wipe the floor with my R9-290, but in actual practice, the gameplay experience is vastly better on my Single R9-290.
 

David-Duc

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Only? DId how did you forget about multiple Nvidia cards that went over spec?
Titan Z

You do realize the two extra pins on the 8pin PCI-e connector are grounds, right?

Do you even read the link I posted and the link you posted? The connectors are rated for 85 deg C and fully loaded the Titan Z's connectors temp. is below that while the 295X2's is above that. That's pretty difficult to explain right? Since the Titan Z consumes almost a hundred watts less. Specs tdp is 375W for Titan Z which is right within pci-e consortium specs http://www.anandtech.com/show/8069/nvidia-releases-geforce-gtx-titan-z

And you're wrong. The other two pins are not ground. One of them is 12v sense which help the card detect if someone like you decide to plug a 6 pin into an 8 pin and call it a day since "the 2 extra pins are just bollocks."
 
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LordEC911

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Do you even read the link I posted and the link you posted? The connectors are rated for 85 deg C and fully loaded the Titan Z's connectors temp. is below that while the 295X2's is above that. That's pretty difficult to explain right? Since the Titan Z consumes almost a hundred watts less.
And you're wrong. The other two pins are not ground. One of them is 12v sense which help the card detect if someone like you decide to plug a 6 pin into an 8 pin and call it a day since the 2 extra pins are just bollocks.

I did read your link and watched the video.
In the video the 295x2 connectors are sitting around 80C...
They were also using Furmark, not exactly a realworld situation.

I see Titan Z getting warmer than 295x2 in real testing...

Please show me one review with the TitanZ pulling 100w less.

You are correct about that extra two pins not being grounds, I apologize. There is some incorrect documentation/diagrams floating around out there.

Edit- There is a reason Nvidia didn't send out Titan Z to reviewers...
 
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David-Duc

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Please show me one review with the TitanZ pulling 100w less.

You are correct about that extra two pins not being grounds, I apologize. There is some incorrect documentation/diagrams floating around out there.

Edit- There is a reason Nvidia didn't send out Titan Z to reviewers...
Yes, perfomance wise, Titan Z is inferior to 295X2, there are no arguments on that. And I said almost a hundred watts not 100w so here you go: http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/foru...6869-nvidia-titan-z-performance-review-3.html

Please re read my post above since I added the official specs and the Titan Z met the PCI-E specs on TDP.
 

NickJames

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Furmark is a bullshit test and I wouldn't accurately rate anything based on that.
 

David-Duc

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Furmark is a bullshit test and I wouldn't accurately rate anything based on that.
When an engineer build something, he would build it for the worst case scenario, of course within reason. I see Furmark as a reasonable stress testing to measure worst case scenario of cooling system and power supply.
 

LordEC911

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Yes, perfomance wise, Titan Z is inferior to 295X2, there are no arguments on that. And I said almost a hundred watts not 100w so here you go: http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/foru...6869-nvidia-titan-z-performance-review-3.html

Please re read my post above since I added the official specs and the Titan Z met the PCI-E specs on TDP.

So ~70w difference only a bit off your almost "100w."

That's nice. Nvidia TDP |= power consumption.
They were a bit better back in Kepler days than they are with Maxwell but it still holds true.

When an engineer build something, he would build it for the worst case scenario, of course within reason. I see Furmark as a reasonable stress testing to measure worst case scenario of cooling system and power supply.
That's why Nvidia throttles Furmark, right?
 
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