@Fry's B&M - Samsung 4k 43" UN43KU6300 - $497 no tax!

Seventyfive

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I personally have this TV running as a monitor and it's amazing. Does 4:4:4 chroma and has pretty decent ~30ms response time.
 

CaptNumbNutz

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I personally have this TV running as a monitor and it's amazing. Does 4:4:4 chroma and has pretty decent ~30ms response time.
30ms response time is atrocious if you are using it for online gaming, be it console or PC. Don't kid yourself. 1 frame per second is equal to 16.67ms. Ideally, you want less than 5ms and the closer to zero you can get the better. At 30ms response time you already 2 frames behind what's happening in real time. In a multiplayer game, if your enemy is in a sprint you could miss every single shot behind him even though it looks like you hit him in game. Trust me, there's a reason why there was such a huge push for low response times in the monitor industry when we got rid of the old CRT monitors. Its the same reason why you see so many "gaming monitors" with high refresh rates and low response times.

For a regular TV, 30ms is fine. If the screen has a "Game" mode that likely means it turns off the additional color correction and other processors and displays straight from the source which will lower the response time dramatically. If you are using Game mode on your TV, then the response time is likely a lot lower than 30ms.
 

ElBerryKM13

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30ms response time is atrocious if you are using it for online gaming, be it console or PC. Don't kid yourself. 1 frame per second is equal to 16.67ms. At 30ms response time you already 2 frames behind what's happening in real time. In a multiplayer game, if your enemy is in a sprint you could miss every single shot behind him even though it looks like you hit him in game. Trust me, there's a reason why there was such a huge push for low response times in the monitor industry when we got rid of the old CRT monitors. Its the same reason why you see so many "gaming monitors" with high refresh rates and low response times.

For a regular TV, 30ms is fine. If the screen has a "Game" mode that likely means it turns off the additional color correction and other processors and displays straight from the source which will lower the response time dramatically.

Why is that people always assume you are gaming playing FPS games? Did you know there are a bunch of other genres besides fps?
 

CaptNumbNutz

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Why is that people always assume you are gaming playing FPS games? Did you know there are a bunch of other genres besides fps?
I didn't say only FPS games. I gave an FPS example because that one is the easiest for people to picture. At 30ms you're shooting the shadow of your enemy as he is running.

Any game that requires high speed reaction is terrible with high response times, even moreso if there is an online multiplayer component. Try playing a fighting game online (Mortal Kombat comes to mind), any fast paced platformer, a sports game (especially basketball games) etc.

I also mentioned that a lot of these TV's have "Game mode" to negate this issue. If this TV has "Game Mode", then it would be an excellent purchase. ;)
 

DarkStar02

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This TV does have game mode as a previous poster mentioned but I just wanted to refute your claims that 30ms of delay is unbearable and will ruin your FPS gaming experience. I play BF4 in hardcore mode all the time on my JU7500 and it doesn't stop me from usually being at the top of the leaderboards. Being behind 2 frames is nothing when you're playing at 60 frames per second.
 

illram

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This TV does have game mode as a previous poster mentioned but I just wanted to refute your claims that 30ms of delay is unbearable and will ruin your FPS gaming experience. I play BF4 in hardcore mode all the time on my JU7500 and it doesn't stop me from usually being at the top of the leaderboards. Being behind 2 frames is nothing when you're playing at 60 frames per second.

Yeah this "shooting behind the player" stuff is a little over the top. People reading that hopefully do not get the wrong idea. On a lot of popular first person shooters, e.g. Call of Duty or Battlefield, it takes multiple frames just for a single bullet to fire, even on an automatic weapon.

To put this in perspective for people, on this TV (almost any TV) you will be playing at 60 frames per second. That's 2 frames out of those 60 you are behind on 30ms input lag. That's 60 things happening in one second, and are missing two of those things! That is almost imperceptible to a lot of people. In all but the most competitive twitch gaming, the vast majority of people will not notice any difference at <30ms.

Personally, I play FPS on a sluggish, 5 year old plasma with about 50ms input lag all the time and do perfectly fine. People should not be scared off from a 19ms, or even a 30ms input lag TV.
 

SixFootDuo

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I personally have this TV running as a monitor and it's amazing. Does 4:4:4 chroma and has pretty decent ~30ms response time.


Change it to Console and you will get 18ms response. And there is no difference between PC / Console PQ wise.
 

SixFootDuo

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Yeah just a heads up to all the interested parties for this set.

It has excellent low latency. 19.8ms.

This needs to be turned on my changing it from PC to Console then to Game Mode. You cannot access Game Mode under PC.
 

Seventyfive

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30ms response time is atrocious if you are using it for online gaming, be it console or PC. Don't kid yourself. 1 frame per second is equal to 16.67ms. Ideally, you want less than 5ms and the closer to zero you can get the better. At 30ms response time you already 2 frames behind what's happening in real time. In a multiplayer game, if your enemy is in a sprint you could miss every single shot behind him even though it looks like you hit him in game. Trust me, there's a reason why there was such a huge push for low response times in the monitor industry when we got rid of the old CRT monitors. Its the same reason why you see so many "gaming monitors" with high refresh rates and low response times.

For a regular TV, 30ms is fine. If the screen has a "Game" mode that likely means it turns off the additional color correction and other processors and displays straight from the source which will lower the response time dramatically. If you are using Game mode on your TV, then the response time is likely a lot lower than 30ms.

I basically only play FPS games and haven't really noticed a difference. I can post some scoreboard screenshots when i get home.
 

NoxTek

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Do these have a high frequency PWM backlight, a low frequency (usually 60 cycle) backlight, or a non PWM backlight?

My UN50JU6500 has a low frequency PWM baclight and it's quite noticable the further you reduce the backlight level. It's really the only negative I can find on an otherwise stellar large format display....
 

CaptNumbNutz

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This TV does have game mode as a previous poster mentioned but I just wanted to refute your claims that 30ms of delay is unbearable and will ruin your FPS gaming experience. I play BF4 in hardcore mode all the time on my JU7500 and it doesn't stop me from usually being at the top of the leaderboards. Being behind 2 frames is nothing when you're playing at 60 frames per second.
You guys need to re-read what I typed and stop thinking that my criticism of that high response time is implying other things. ;)

No where did I say that it will "ruin your FPS gaming experience". I said that 30ms response time is atrocious and that sub 5ms is ideal. Most decent monitors have much lower response times. I never said you can't do it. I'm emphasizing the fact that the experience can be better when you have lower response times. I've done 30ms response times. Then I bought a monitor with sub 5ms response times. I definitely noticed the difference.

It's terrible when compared to a half decent computer monitor. I've also mentioned twice now that game mode will lower that response time drastically. Again, this is a TV first so I expect the response times to be terrible. Again, I emphasize that this would be a great gaming monitor as long as you are using the "Game Mode". Another member already pointed out that game mode cuts that response time in half.
 
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Celeryman

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mfc2

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It's terrible when compared to a half decent computer monitor. I've also mentioned twice now that game mode will lower that response time drastically. Again, this is a TV first so I expect the response times to be terrible. Again, I emphasize that this would be a great gaming monitor as long as you are using the "Game Mode". Another member already pointed out that game mode cuts that response time in half.

I have been using this as a computer monitor for a while. When I switch to Console and Game Mode I lose the 4:4:4 Chroma, which makes it unusable as a computer monitor. Is there a way to enable Game Mode AND keep the 4:4:4 chroma? I thought I had to be in PC mode to get 4:4:4.
 

Seventyfive

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I have been using this as a computer monitor for a while. When I switch to Console and Game Mode I lose the 4:4:4 Chroma, which makes it unusable as a computer monitor. Is there a way to enable Game Mode AND keep the 4:4:4 chroma? I thought I had to be in PC mode to get 4:4:4.

No, there's some limiting factor. You either choose the 19ms input lag of game mode or the 4:4:4 chroma with 36ms input lag. Unfortunately you can't have both.
 
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I have been using this as a computer monitor for a while. When I switch to Console and Game Mode I lose the 4:4:4 Chroma, which makes it unusable as a computer monitor. Is there a way to enable Game Mode AND keep the 4:4:4 chroma? I thought I had to be in PC mode to get 4:4:4.

How is it unusable? I almost exclusively use game mode now without 4:4:4 chroma cause I can't tell the difference when gaming. I haven't noticed any differences in readability of text either.
 

mfc2

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How is it unusable? I almost exclusively use game mode now without 4:4:4 chroma cause I can't tell the difference when gaming. I haven't noticed any differences in readability of text either.

For me it is instantly noticeable. Text becomes fuzzy and colors look off. I was going to return this monitor to Best Buy until I called Samsung support and they told me how to enable PC mode. Korean monitors are only slightly more expensive and they are actual monitors with display port connections. I didn't want to take the risk with the Korean vendors and decided to pick an established brand at a local store.
 
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For me it is instantly noticeable. Text becomes fuzzy and colors look off. I was going to return this monitor to Best Buy until I called Samsung support and they told me how to enable PC mode. Korean monitors are only slightly more expensive and they are actual monitors with display port connections. I didn't want to take the risk with the Korean vendors and decided to pick an established brand at a local store.
Have you tried adjusting the picture settings and running the windows clear type tool? Also in your graphics driver make sure that it is in full color mode(full dynamic range) and not in that truncated black TV mode. The TV also has a black mode you need to set to low as well I think. Otherwise black looks like gray and your gpu will crush black.
 

Lateralus

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Exactly. I don't know if it's still the case for these 2016 Samsung TVs but for the 2015 models there was one main thing that you had to do for text to look good after enabling Game Mode. For whatever reason, the default value of Sharpness = 50 in PC Mode was equal to Sharpness = 0 in Game Mode. If you enabled Game Mode and left Sharpness at 50, it looked like crap. Adjusting the slider to 0 made it as crisp and clear as it was in PC Mode.

Now, due to the reduced level of chroma subsampling in Game Mode, red text was still fuzzy but that one simple tweak made all other text look great. My 48" JS9000 is extremely usable in Game Mode; in fact that's where it stays 98% of the time.
 

Seventyfive

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For anyone swapping between game and PC mode, I have found that if I change the input type from "PC" to "game console" it automatically sets the game mode AND changes the chroma setting. So now it's pretty easy to jump from one mode to the other.
 

cybereality

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I have the 40" model, the one that's $379 on ebay. I paid $500 at Best Buy and it was worth every penny.

It's quite an amazing setup. Just look at the picture quality below:

KU6300UHD11.jpg
 

Cardio

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Not using my 43 for gaming but it is a terrific general purpose PC monitor. Videos are excellent also. Thought it might be just too big but now anything else looks too small. I really love it. Super cheap!
 

kdh

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Got the replacement monitor setup and Ive been using it for gaming last few days. As a couch monitor, games like Ori and the Blind forest DE, Inside, Move or Die, Rocket League, Ultimate Chicken horse and the Crew play really well. Friends sitting on the couch watching Doom, No Mans Sky, or Ark on it in 4k are blown away. I consider myself about an average user and for my needs, it was perfect.
 

Cecil

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30ms response time is atrocious if you are using it for online gaming, be it console or PC. Don't kid yourself. 1 frame per second is equal to 16.67ms. Ideally, you want less than 5ms and the closer to zero you can get the better. At 30ms response time you already 2 frames behind what's happening in real time. In a multiplayer game, if your enemy is in a sprint you could miss every single shot behind him even though it looks like you hit him in game. Trust me, there's a reason why there was such a huge push for low response times in the monitor industry when we got rid of the old CRT monitors. Its the same reason why you see so many "gaming monitors" with high refresh rates and low response times.

For a regular TV, 30ms is fine. If the screen has a "Game" mode that likely means it turns off the additional color correction and
other processors and displays straight from the source which will lower the response time dramatically. If you are using Game mode on your TV, then the response time is likely a lot lower than 30ms.

Maybe you are confusing input lag with pixel response time, which many people do. 30ms and less input lag is actually very good, even for most actual monitors. It isn't until around 50-60ms that it becomes an issue. There isn't a notable TV on the market that is below 18ms of input lag, and most gaming monitors are around that mark as well. Its pixel response time that you see being advertised as 1-5ms on monitors (and that's only grey to grey, not white to black to white transition time that they should measure with).


One thing of note is that while this TV can officially play back HDR content, it does not have a 10bit panel or the brightness to actually show a difference with HDR. Same thing Vizio does with their M series, and LG does with pretty much all of their normal LED TVs. To get real HDR with Samsung you have to step up to the KS8000 or better.
 

Cecil

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That's good to know! How is HDR on LG's OLED's?
Non HDR content, the OLEDs are better. For HDR content the Samsung does better because of the brightness.

Also Samsung is the only one right now that can display HDR content while keeping game mode active for low input lag. Vizio P series ends up around 60ms with HDR vs Samsung 20 ms.
 

cybereality

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Cecil Maybe you mean the Samsung KS line? The KU line (the one this thread is about) has only OK HDR performance compared to the LG OLED.
 

Odellus

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Maybe you are confusing input lag with pixel response time, which many people do. 30ms and less input lag is actually very good, even for most actual monitors. It isn't until around 50-60ms that it becomes an issue. There isn't a notable TV on the market that is below 18ms of input lag, and most gaming monitors are around that mark as well. Its pixel response time that you see being advertised as 1-5ms on monitors (and that's only grey to grey, not white to black to white transition time that they should measure with).


One thing of note is that while this TV can officially play back HDR content, it does not have a 10bit panel or the brightness to actually show a difference with HDR. Same thing Vizio does with their M series, and LG does with pretty much all of their normal LED TVs. To get real HDR with Samsung you have to step up to the KS8000 or better.
most gaming monitors are definitely not "around that mark". any gaming monitor worth buying in 2016 has <5 ms of total input lag, some even have less than 3 ms. 30 ms of input lag is horrible no matter what you're doing, that's almost 2 full frames of lag at 60 Hz.

while you're mostly right saying that there aren't any notable TVs with below 18 ms input lag, there is the D40u-D1 which has 13.5 ms of input lag and pretty good image quality.
 

Cecil

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Cecil Maybe you mean the Samsung KS line? The KU line (the one this thread is about) has only OK HDR performance compared to the LG OLED.

One thing of note is that while this TV can officially play back HDR content, it does not have a 10bit panel or the brightness to actually show a difference with HDR. Same thing Vizio does with their M series, and LG does with pretty much all of their normal LED TVs. To get real HDR with Samsung you have to step up to the KS8000 or better.
I was referring to the post I had made above about this TV not having real HDR, and the KS8000 being the real starting point for Samsung HDR.
 
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most gaming monitors are definitely not "around that mark". any gaming monitor worth buying in 2016 has <5 ms of total input lag, some even have less than 3 ms. 30 ms of input lag is horrible no matter what you're doing, that's almost 2 full frames of lag at 60 Hz.

while you're mostly right saying that there aren't any notable TVs with below 18 ms input lag, there is the D40u-D1 which has 13.5 ms of input lag and pretty good image quality.

Horrible is your perception, while it is not going to be ideal for someone who plays mobas and shooters at a high level(competitively) an input lag of 20-30 ms is perfectly acceptable for all other pc gaming applications. At no instance do I feel like I am at a competitive disadvantage when I am playing overwatch casually, for instance. I have a low latency TN panel as a secondary display right next to it, while the lag is noticeable when I am dragging things quickly across both screens it doesn't affect me from a game play perspective, maybe it's cause I grew up in the Era of dialup where you had to be psychic to hit someone with a rail gun in quake 2 on account of 180-300ms pings :) . Ymmv, of course.
 

Daniel_Chang

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and has pretty decent ~30ms response time.

30ms response time is atrocious if you are using it for online gaming,

This alwayhs makes me cringe. People confusing input lag and response time.

This set has a roughly 30ms input lag, <20ms in game mode. INPUT LAG, not response time. Two totally different things. The only thing they have in common is unit of measurement.
 

Seventyfive

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This alwayhs makes me cringe. People confusing input lag and response time.

This set has a roughly 30ms input lag, <20ms in game mode. INPUT LAG, not response time. Two totally different things. The only thing they have in common is unit of measurement.

You're right, response time is going to be less blurring, and input lag is hitting a button and seeing it on the screen. For people wondering, response time on this is about 19ms.
 

Zohar78

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i bought the 40 inch from best buy for 429. i had $150 best buy gift card, got them to price match amazon, and walked out the door with it for 310. there was three tvs that i would have preferred over it, samsung ks8500, vizio p50 2016, and sony x800d. For the money, its a helluva deal if you dont have a new tv. When compared to the sony 43x800d, you lose 3 inches, slightly less picture quality, for 2/3 price.. While i would love to see what the ks8500 and vizio p series could do, im very happy with my purchase.
 

cybereality

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Awesome. I'm really happy with the purchase as well. The TV isn't perfect but, for the price, it seems like the best choice right now.
 
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