Frustrated Re: Lack of Competition

Discussion in 'AMD Flavor' started by Lord_Exodia, Oct 20, 2014.

  1. Lord_Exodia

    Lord_Exodia [H]ardness Supreme

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    I enjoy competition. I like it when 2 companies push the best out of eachother allowing us ALL to win, but AMD needs to update it's schedule. Maybe this round there was an exception because both were shooting for a newer node(20nm) that didn't come to fruition and they decided on different paths.

    I just wish that AMD would have a more aggressive schedule.

    Even when highly competitive against nvidia cards, geforce sell very well against AMD counterparts even when priced higher.

    Now AMD has no answer to GTX 9x0 cards and with no competition against them you can imagine how well those GTX 9x0 cards are selling. I would have hoped for a quick Tonga or Pirates Island counterattack but I'm convinced that is not coming until last minute this year or early next year.

    Nvidia always seems to have a gpu sitting in the sideline ready to be deployed to fight off AMD but AMD can't seem to get with the program losing months of ground and lots of money. My concern is with all the bad press AMD may not continue this battle a few generations from now if this keeps up. Anyone else feel the same, I'm overdue for some red cards?

    /end rant :(
     
  2. The Mac

    The Mac [H]ardness Supreme

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    it goes back and forth.

    Nvidia didn't have an answer for the 7970 released in december 2012 until april of the following year.

    works the same way with AMD.

    These cards have a 4-5 year lead time on them between R&D, prototyping, Tapeouts, and production ramp-ups.

    Its not like can just whip a new one up on the spot.
     
  3. outers

    outers Limp Gawd

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    Exactly, Nvidia will probably hold the crown for the next few months until AMD comes out with their card. Then AMD while hold the crown while Nvidia work on their next card. Rinse and repeat.
     
  4. GotNoRice

    GotNoRice [H]ardForum Junkie

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    It does, until it doesn't. It's hardly a given. There was back-and-forth on the CPU side of things too - until AMD couldn't compete anymore. Who's to say that won't happen on the GPU side also?

    GTX680 came out spring 2012 and dominated the 7970 to the extent that they released the 7970 Ghz Edition in a panic to try to close the gap.
     
  5. Lord_Exodia

    Lord_Exodia [H]ardness Supreme

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    I really hope not. Since AMD stopped pushing forward the CPU market is stale with only incremental improvements. My recently sold i7 2600k from January 2011 overclocked to 4.8Ghz holds up pretty damn well against Intel and AMD's newest and greatest. That's just sad. I wish AMD would put a shiny boot up Intel's Arse again :D
     
  6. AceCR42

    AceCR42 2[H]4U

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    Nvidia didn't have an answer to the 5870 for over 6 months either, and that was 25-50% faster than the GTX 285 while using less power, and retailed for the same price. Then the GTX 400 series came out it was... not really worth the wait.


    But sure OP, AMD is dead and all.
     
  7. Yakk

    Yakk [H]ardness Supreme

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    Goes back and forth between green and red. Long lead times for parts like these. AMD also has a lot of contacts, like recently demonstrated with the iMac 5K, so maybe they had to delay or shift production for it. I'm pretty sure Apple would demand big supply available, and first pick.

    If it comes to AMD not competing anymore for highend GPUs... like CPUs, one could expect prices to skyrocket and performance increases to show down. Similar to what is now happening to CPUs.
     
  8. Araxie

    Araxie [H]ardness Supreme

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    But this time the difference from a GTX 980 to 290X isn't large enough to say AMD will not be able to outperform easily, we all know AMD will surpass the performance of the 980 easily in feb/march.. if they can launch a card like the 7970 vs the 6970 with a minimum performance increase of 30%-35% over the 290X then they have a truly competitive card there again... its hard to think a 20nm AMD with new Architecture can't be 20% better than the 290X..

    And also they have to lower the price to 500$ for the GHZ edition to remain competitive..
     
  9. Lord_Exodia

    Lord_Exodia [H]ardness Supreme

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    I never said AMD is dead. They are moving APU chips to consoles and all that but what hardcore PC gamer gives a Rats Dairy Aire about that? :p I want a pair of 390Xs now :(

    Edit: to correct what I'm saying. I would like the 390s to be out now so that I can CHOOSE which setup to buy based on Price/Performance and feature set.

    Edit 2: Some other community members posted above and in fairness to them, I want to acknowledge their posts by saying that it is true, there usually is a gap from 1 brand to another to release competitive hardware. I guess I'm just a little antsy for things to get more competitive because things look so bad lately for AMD and so good for team green that it concerns me about the add-in graphics card market and where it's headed.
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2014
  10. The Mac

    The Mac [H]ardness Supreme

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    I can certainly agree with that.

    lol
     
  11. outers

    outers Limp Gawd

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    Gotta be patient brother
     
  12. cageymaru

    cageymaru [H]ard as it Gets

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  13. samuelmorris

    samuelmorris [H]ardness Supreme

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    AMD are clearly on the back foot in both counts now at the enthusiast sector, CPU and GPU. The GPUs are a little more favourably priced over here in the UK than in the US but the pricing is still not exactly wonderful when you consider how much more technologically advanced the GTX900s are.
    The way their architectures are going, it's 20nm or bust for the next high-end products. Even a 20nm refresh of the 290 series would still probably use more power than the GTX900 equivalent. Power usage might not be a dealbreaker to many but it is if you can't enlarge the GPUs any further within an acceptable power envelope...
     
  14. Mokkat

    Mokkat [H]ard|Gawd

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    4-6 months of one brand having the faster cards is pretty common. The aggressive pricing of the 9xx cards and consequent major price reduction it has caused for AMD cards is not.

    AMD will probably start teasing prototypes for the new cards way before having them ready, as to hype people on the fence into waiting.
     
  15. The Mac

    The Mac [H]ardness Supreme

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    yup, expect to see leaks by the holidays.
     
  16. Spazturtle

    Spazturtle [H]ard|Gawd

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    Not really, AMD were completely destroying Intel on the CPU front and continually putting out CPUs that were cheaper and better then the one Intel would launch later, then Intel decided to pay companies to make there programs run slower on AMD and AMD started to lose out until Intel had the better CPUs.
     
  17. samuelmorris

    samuelmorris [H]ardness Supreme

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    Going back quite a few years for that now though aren't we? As I recall the dramatic changeover was in 2006.
     
  18. c3k

    c3k 2[H]4U

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    I'm in the market for 2 decent cards. I've just bought a gtx970; that leaves the dance card open for an AMD card. I can wait...but not too far beyond the new year. I'd like something in a similar ballpark. A little less capable and cheaper would be better for my purposes, but I won't split hairs.

    C'mon AMD...
     
  19. The Mac

    The Mac [H]ardness Supreme

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    285 or 290

    New cards from AMD wont be out till feb/mar unless the rumor about a holiday surprise release is true.
     
  20. trick0502

    trick0502 [H]ardness Supreme

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    Amd got caught waiting for 20nm. They already released their 28nm refresh (290/x) and were hoping 20nm would be ready. Nvidia on the other hand shifted their 20nm maxwell to 28nm and that is paying off. It is hard for gpu mfgs because they have to wait on the process to be ready. It is really out of their hands.
     
  21. Teenk9

    Teenk9 Gawd

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    Surprised so many took the bait. OP has been here long enough to know that it goes back and forth like many have posted. Obvious agenda is obvious.
     
  22. Final8ty

    Final8ty Gawd

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    Indeed.
     
  23. LordEC911

    LordEC911 [H]ard|Gawd

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    Also, those saying AMD was waiting for 20nm or will be using 20nm is delusional...
     
  24. SnowBeast

    SnowBeast [H]ard|Gawd

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    Children like you and Final8ty should stay out of these threads.

    Every few years we hear of AMD going out of Business, losing market share, etc..
    Point is, this year has been really bad for their CPU business, and Gpu hasn't been making as much ground either. Go read the the 3rd quarter statement. That 3rd quarter was only including 2 weeks of the GTX980/970 release. You think this quarter is going to be better?? Better hope the PS4 and Xbone are huge Xmas sales this year. Because that's the only thing they have going for them. Their hard drives and ram make up very small percentages. Roy@AMD tweeting his bullshit posts DOESN'T help them in the least either.

    Does the outlook still look good to you "Know it all" fanboys?? http://www.marketwatch.com/story/advanced-micro-devices-plans-layoffs-2014-10-16-161034918

    Any body with any kind of business school back ground knows that Restructuring is another way of saying "MAYDAY! MAYDAY! WE'RE BURNING UP!!"

    Before that the dumbasses replace their CEO BEFORE their quarterly announcement. Are you fucking kidding me?? That's not a professional business, that's fucking romper room shit. And another reason why I would never invest in their company again. ( 1999-2002 invested)

    Now all the RED TEAM fanboys are crying for a new gpu coming out in January/Feb. Really? Don't get the context clues very well do you? Notice any GTX 960 right now? Dual GPU GTX990? No. The new process has taped out. The GTX 980/970 are place holders till March launch of the proper cards, and in business, makes total sense!

    Nvidia hasn't been in the red even close to what AMD/ATI has been. They have millions of dollars to throw at R&D that AMD doesn't have because of having to split what little profit margins between CPU, GPU, and APU's for consoles. Nvidia has one division. Let that sink in.

    Now AMD will stay afloat on consoles and patent suits as well as anti-monopoly laws, but being competitive in high end graphics will probably come to end much like the CPU division after the Radeon R390 launch.

    Oh and for the nuts that keep saying prices will go up with no competition. Are you kidding me? Why would they put themselves out of business? Did Intel do that when AMD got out of the high end CPU race? Nope. I bought my 2500k on sale 3 years ago $149. And its soon to be replacement 3770k for $279. High volume moves at medium pricing and is better for corporate bottom lines.

    Now I am not a fanboy. I am an investor. Back in the day AMD made me some serious cash (1998-Jan. 2000) That was back when they were a finely tuned machine. Now as evident in the market reports, they are more of a $2 crack whore getting kicked around on a Saturday night. No I am not joking, this company is turning into one though from people that watch the markets.

    Clown cars stuffed with clowns are funny for the circus, not running million dollar businesses.
     
  25. The Mac

    The Mac [H]ardness Supreme

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    Restructureing = Mayday?

    seriously?

    Having an MBA myself, and many many years in the technical, manufacturing, and corporate world, i can assure you, you havent a clue what you are talking about.

    There are MANY, MANY reasons for strategic restructuring.

    Anyone who knows anything about manufacturing logistics and design R&D knows about leadtimes and strategic placement.

    4-6 month is normal for competing halo product releases in this sector.

    I smell an nvidiot.

    I can assure you, AMD is not going out of business, just like they didnt the last 100 times you bozos claimed they were.

    BTW: i own significant stock in both companies.
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2014
  26. madgun

    madgun [H]ard|Gawd

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    One who draws first blood in a new GPU cycle generally gets the advantage. We may very well see that, with Maxwell, Nvidia will have an answer to most of the product launches that AMD does.

    AMD on the other hand, need to expedite pirate islands. the game's not over yet.
     
  27. TekRok

    TekRok 2[H]4U

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    Youre joking right? The 9xx series JUST came out. There is really nothing amazing about those cards, other than doing almost the same performance +5-10% more and eating less power. Power savings are insignificant, savings wise.

    Its a rehash of the 7xx series of cards, but this time there wont be any TI versions because its at its maximum in terms of cores.

    This whole "competition" discussion needs to stop. There is nothing wrong with R9 series of cards. Sure they eat more energy which produces heat, but with non reference designed coolers there is no issue with heat. AMD has cut pricing on the R9 series, there is your competition.

    A lot of people also forget the fact that these cards arent made like sneakers. Models are planned in advance for years.

    AMD layoffs, this has many variables to it. AMD is diversified far more than NVIDIA. Nvidia is mostly focused on the GPU market, with some exceptions with their new mobile Tegra chips, and thats it. AMD has its hands in the CPU, GPU, Mobile, and console markets. Perhaps AMD should restructure, that usually shakes things up in the company. Also dont forget about the fact that AMD overpaid for the ATI name and infrastructure, that has had many implications on its own.

    And last but not least, what is on your PC that the latest AMD card cannot do? Is it because you want show off to your friends by showing them some synthetic benchmarks? What is it exactly that has you yearning for competition as you put it? My Dual 290 has the same score as 970 in SLI in Firestrike 17,185. 970s only do slightly better at 4k by about 400 points, no big deal.
     
  28. Relayer

    Relayer [H]ard|Gawd

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    And consider that 290's are ~$100 less than the 970. You can buy 2x290's for the price of a single 980. Someone would have to be really hooked on having the latest tech, only concerned with power usage, or a total fanboi to pass over Hawaii for Maxwell right now.
     
  29. dccmadams

    dccmadams [H]ard|Gawd

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    I am not a fanboy, but have not owned a AMD card since 5870s a few years ago. I don't like loud, hot, video cards like AMD has been releasing for quite a while now at the top end. Give it similar performance, run cooler and quieter, and I will buy it. Multiple cards in sli and crossfire suc as far as I am concerned. I have tried dozens of combos from amd and NVidia over the years. Those setup are great for punching out big numbers on your synthetic benchmarks, but suc in games. I will buy someones next generation video card when it becomes available. Hopefully AMD can do enough like they did in the old days with my 5870 cards.
     
  30. madgun

    madgun [H]ard|Gawd

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    An architecture that lowers power to performance ratio without a die shrink is a significant achievement on part of NVIDIA. It gives them good press, makes people wonder why AMD can't do the same and increases the chances of significantly higher overclock.

     
  31. TekRok

    TekRok 2[H]4U

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    No it doesnt. Every company has its own trade secrets and technology, so its unreasonable to expect AMD to adopt the same power savings as Nvidia just because. The press say a Prius is an amazing tree hugger of a car, it doesnt mean everyone will go out and buy one.

    Its an achievement alright, but its not that amazing. If power costs were through the roof, say something similar to what we pay for Premium in the US, then I can see your points, but at the end of the day its a moot point.
     
  32. The Cobra

    The Cobra 2[H]4U

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    This post is really asinine.

    People always predict doom and gloom about AMD. I love both companies and products they put out. I go between both of them each few years, whoever has the best card. AMD had the 5870 a few years ago and had the power thing down with reduced consumption. Nvidia wears that crown now.

    Like our politicians, it will flip/flop for the foreseeable future.
     
  33. madgun

    madgun [H]ard|Gawd

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    If AMD did it you would be jumping of the sofa right now. Either u're a dumbo or a fanboy. Pick and choose ;)
     
  34. outers

    outers Limp Gawd

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    Either way, I'm sure AMD's next gen gpus will be awesome. Now is an awesome time to be a pc gamer.
     
  35. David-Duc

    David-Duc [H]ard|Gawd

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    Parties don't go out of business, companies (for example, AMD) do. Remember 3dfx? SIS Xabre? Abit? If a company does not have enough cash to spend on R&D they will continue to lose market share and then slowly going out of business or facing restructure and chop off unprofitable department. Unless Intel/nVidia decide to mess up big time (Prescott/FX5800) again.
     
  36. cageymaru

    cageymaru [H]ard as it Gets

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    I honestly don't care how much electricity a video card or CPU uses. Most of the time after you overclock it's all relatively close anyways. With my setup running 24/7 overclocked without a sleep mode, my electricity bill is $141.00 a month. I run my central air 24/7 all year also.

    I bet the cake I baked today pulled more electricity than my PC did all month.
     
  37. outers

    outers Limp Gawd

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    That's your fault for owning an electric stove. Based gas
     
  38. Pylor

    Pylor Limp Gawd

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    But these were the only good apartments in my city :(

    That being said, those who are saying the power reductions when gaming from nvidia are easily dismissed aren't familiar with a lot of people I see on the forums all the time. People trying to build fanless PCs and acting like hearing a computer make noise would ruin the entire experience for them. I have an original 7970 with a blower and, frankly, I'm tired of it spinning up like a hair drier when I get into intense gaming. Is it the end of the world? No, but it gets annoying after 3 years and the thing basically turns into a space heater. I'd much enjoy something much more energy efficient and quieter this time around.

    That being said, back and forths look like this all the time. Remember the nvidia 200 series? Same thing with the AMD 7970. Both of these cards saw a release from their competitor months after their release ($150 on the nvidia 280 which was forced to do so by the ATi 4870 and $100 on the AMD 7970 forced by the Nvidia 680). Just have some patience, unless you need to upgrade now for whatever reason just wait a bit.
     
  39. Lord_Exodia

    Lord_Exodia [H]ardness Supreme

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    TeenK9 <-- appropriate. If you have nothing educational and mature to contribute please refrain from posting. There is a forum for people like you, it's the genmay (general mayhem) You can post whatever childish nonsense you want to there and noone would probably care if you have nothing constructive to contribute

    really Final8ty? You know I don't troll you've been around long enough.

    Your post comes off as if your offended by what I posted. Reading and fully comprehending your post, it shows that you don't realize that what I'm saying is actually something that would be good for AMD.

    When AMD has their latest flagship cards in full gear = Nvidia slightly older tech sells well against AMD's BEST

    When Both have their latest Flagship cards on the market = Nvidia Sells exceptionally well (AMD not so much)

    When AMD is nowhere to be found and Nvidia has the newest fastest architecture on the market... Yeah... See what I'm getting at?

    Yes I acknowledge a few posters have said this and it's 100% accurate. There is always a time when the companies keep leapfrogging eachother and its been this way forever. I'm just not sure AMD can continue to afford this.

    Competition talk is what NEEDS to be our rhetoric because FanBOY talk is what actually needs to stop. You look like your speaking the latter. What will you have to say if AMD doesn't get their act together and goes out of business because it looks like that is where they are headed if something doesn't change and it's not too late. No company is safe, even with hordes of fanboys cheering them on. Hopefully they can bring back the glory days and come back with a R390X that will be the 9700 Pro Reincarnated. I dread the day we have crappy 10% performance increases each year since nobody is pushing nvidia to make better products? I feel like punching intel in the Face right now since AMD is hopelessly lost in the CPU Race. Wake up man. :rolleyes:
     
  40. cyclone3d

    cyclone3d [H]ardForum Junkie

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    It wasn't only that.

    Intel blocked OEMs from selling AMD based computers as well.

    They said that they would raise their prices if the OEMs carried AMD based products.

    This was back in the P4 vs Athlon 64 days.

    That right there should have cost Intel enough to actually hurt them, but all they got was a slap on the wrist.