From Intel Earnings: Intel says accelerating 10nm product transition, 7nm product transition delayed

Ready4Dis

[H]ard|Gawd
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Nov 4, 2015
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1,761
10Base-T is totally still relevant in 2020, and it pushes my NEC V30, 68000/68030, 68040, and 80286 systems to the limit! :D
Yeah, that was my point, lol. If your expectations into more cores to fix an issue with archaic hardware, sell... Not so much ;). I'm still amazed we're still stuck with 100mb/s for so long.. multi gig is just now coming down to realistic costs.
 

IdiotInCharge

[H]F Junkie
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Jun 13, 2003
Messages
14,535
multi gig is just now coming down to realistic costs.
10Gbit was a step too far, too early for SOHO / Consumer when industry adopted it, and it only started catching on when industry was tossing it out...

Multi-gig seems to be only really catching on now due to the all-around costs of 10Gbit outside of datacenter amortization schedules, and the adoption of 2.5Gbit (and probably 5Gbit) likely depends on commercial adoption on corporate desktops / workstations and access points and the like, IMO.
 

Droogie128

Weaksauce
Joined
Oct 20, 2012
Messages
108
Told you, Intel is all 10nm untill 2022. And at the rate it took them to fix 10nm, I'd expect 7nm desktop/server processors no earlier than 2025.

Intel is slowly bleeding-out, with no signs of saving them. Luckily, Tiger Lake cores are at least faster than Zen 3, but we're going to have to wait until next year to see 10nm versions of those on the desktop. Rocket Lake is a cluster-in-progress, and we're not even sure which process node it is or core architecture...it's also not going to be out before 2021.
Their 10nm is really more like AMD's 7nm, but we don't really even know when that is coming.
 

whateverer

[H]ard|Gawd
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Nov 2, 2016
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1,273
Their 10nm is really more like AMD's 7nm, but we don't really even know when that is coming.

The difference her is simple: TSMC's 7nm process node has been able to meet massive demand or big chips since July 2019, while Intel's 10nm is still awaiting mass-production of larger chips (and will probably take spring 2021 to see more than a trickle of server CPUs,)

Later in 2021 we will finally see 10nm desktop chips (supposedly).

Meanwhile, AMD will be moving to mass-production 5nnm process node for the launch of Zen 4THAT SAME YEAR..
Apple is already handling the RISK Launch of 5nm this year, so by the time AMD used it next year. larger chips should be painless!

Intel will be lucky if the launch 7nm in 2022. and then will take 2-3 years to get their massive server CPUs on that new process node.
 
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Ready4Dis

[H]ard|Gawd
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The difference her is simple: TSMC's 7nm process node has been able to meet massive demand or big chips since July 2019, while Intel's 10nm is still awaiting mass-production of larger chips (and will probably take spring 2021 to see more than a trickle of server CPUs,)

Later in 2021 we will finally see 10nm desktop chips (supposedly).

Meanwhile, AMD will be moving to mass-production 5nnm process node for the launch of Zen 4THAT SAME YEAR..
Apple is already handling the RISK Launch of 5nm this year, so by the time AMD used it next year. larger chips should be painless!

Intel will be lucky if the launch 7nm in 2022. and then will take 2-3 years to get their massive server CPUs on that new process node.
They already announced 7nm delays putting it to at least 2023... They said it's a year behind on yield % but should only have a 6 month affect on the release dates (so maybe they had 6 months extra built in somewhere or they can work on the issue in parallel to other work). Either way, it's not good news.
(Speculation below)
I imagine this time next year we'll be hearing rumors on AMD 5nm releases for end of 2021/early 2022. Intel will start making 7nm laptop parts in 2023 to help increase capacity for 10nm desktop parts until 2024ish. Unless TSMC runs into issues with 3nm, it's unlikely we'll see Intel take the process node lead back for a while.
 

juanrga

Pro-Intel / Anti-AMD Just FYI
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Feb 22, 2017
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Reply
They already announced 7nm delays putting it to at least 2023... They said it's a year behind on yield % but should only have a 6 month affect on the release dates (so maybe they had 6 months extra built in somewhere or they can work on the issue in parallel to other work). Either way, it's not good news.
(Speculation below)
I imagine this time next year we'll be hearing rumors on AMD 5nm releases for end of 2021/early 2022. Intel will start making 7nm laptop parts in 2023 to help increase capacity for 10nm desktop parts until 2024ish. Unless TSMC runs into issues with 3nm, it's unlikely we'll see Intel take the process node lead back for a while.
Intel is probably finished at this point. The only way that they could recover foundries leadership is if they fix their broken nodes whereas competitors fail, and even then, the whole industry is moving in a direction away from Intel.
 

Wat

n00b
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Jun 23, 2019
Messages
52
I think all of you guys are overlooking the most important issue: people. It takes more than a few superstars to get a new product out the door. You need good people at all levels of the organization.
What has Intel done over the last 10 years, employee-wise?
I dont.have any inside info, but Intel has all the symptoms of a company with people problems.
 

Domingo

Fully [H]
Joined
Jul 30, 2004
Messages
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As someone who has been pretty loyal to Intel since the P4 days, it's going to be pretty tough to justify NOT going with AMD for my next build.
 

GreenOrbs

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Jun 7, 2017
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456
Crazy rumors floating around today. Big order at TSMC for Intel but info as to which Intel products will be manufactured at TSMC isn't clear yet. I would guess that they wouldn't move CPU's over to the Taiwanese foundry and instead do GPUs and chipsets but this is huge news if true. Apparently they are ordering 180K wafers which is similar to the size of the order that AMD has with TSMC (200k wafers). How big a deal this is really depends on which products Intel is offloading-- chipsets not so interesting, Xe graphics the most likely in my opinion, and if it is CPUs that would be crazy.

https://hexus.net/business/news/components/144379-amd-intel-battle-tsmc-capacity-says-report/
https://seekingalpha.com/news/3595175-tsmc-gets-large-intel-chip-order-apple-r-and-d-plant-reports
 

Ready4Dis

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Nov 4, 2015
Messages
1,761
Crazy rumors floating around today. Big order at TSMC for Intel but info as to which Intel products will be manufactured at TSMC isn't clear yet. I would guess that they wouldn't move CPU's over to the Taiwanese foundry and instead do GPUs and chipsets but this is huge news if true. Apparently they are ordering 180K wafers which is similar to the size of the order that AMD has with TSMC (200k wafers). How big a deal this is really depends on which products Intel is offloading-- chipsets not so interesting, Xe graphics the most likely in my opinion, and if it is CPUs that would be crazy.

https://hexus.net/business/news/components/144379-amd-intel-battle-tsmc-capacity-says-report/
https://seekingalpha.com/news/3595175-tsmc-gets-large-intel-chip-order-apple-r-and-d-plant-reports
My guess is they would split off some lower powered designs to free up capacity for their higher end money makers. Maybe even other things like their WiFi/network chips, etc to help free up capacity and free up a line or two for testing and more quickly upgrading.
 

Snowdog

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Joined
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Messages
10,812
Crazy rumors floating around today. Big order at TSMC for Intel but info as to which Intel products will be manufactured at TSMC isn't clear yet. I would guess that they wouldn't move CPU's over to the Taiwanese foundry and instead do GPUs and chipsets but this is huge news if true. Apparently they are ordering 180K wafers which is similar to the size of the order that AMD has with TSMC (200k wafers). How big a deal this is really depends on which products Intel is offloading-- chipsets not so interesting, Xe graphics the most likely in my opinion, and if it is CPUs that would be crazy.

https://hexus.net/business/news/components/144379-amd-intel-battle-tsmc-capacity-says-report/
https://seekingalpha.com/news/3595175-tsmc-gets-large-intel-chip-order-apple-r-and-d-plant-reports
A rumor that only comes out after Intel says they are open to third party Fabs, has a lot less credibility. It's more like they read the Intel news, then created the rumor.
 

Meeho

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Aug 16, 2010
Messages
4,994
Crazy rumors floating around today. Big order at TSMC for Intel but info as to which Intel products will be manufactured at TSMC isn't clear yet. I would guess that they wouldn't move CPU's over to the Taiwanese foundry and instead do GPUs and chipsets but this is huge news if true. Apparently they are ordering 180K wafers which is similar to the size of the order that AMD has with TSMC (200k wafers). How big a deal this is really depends on which products Intel is offloading-- chipsets not so interesting, Xe graphics the most likely in my opinion, and if it is CPUs that would be crazy.

https://hexus.net/business/news/components/144379-amd-intel-battle-tsmc-capacity-says-report/
https://seekingalpha.com/news/3595175-tsmc-gets-large-intel-chip-order-apple-r-and-d-plant-reports
https://semiaccurate.com/2020/07/24/what-is-going-on-with-intels-ponte-vecchio-gpu/
 

etudiant

n00b
Joined
Jan 28, 2017
Messages
27
I would not use Charlie as a soruce for ANYTHING related to Intel.
The guys lies everytime he get a chance and he has been ANTI-Intel for decades...he misses a LOT more than he get right.
He's been the canary in the coal mine for Intel's manufacturing issues, caught on to the problems really early and has been consistently right in contrast to Intel's happy face propaganda.
So I think you have to be more specific than just trying the old 'ad hominem' to be credible.
 

ChadD

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Feb 8, 2016
Messages
4,707
I think all of you guys are overlooking the most important issue: people. It takes more than a few superstars to get a new product out the door. You need good people at all levels of the organization.
What has Intel done over the last 10 years, employee-wise?
I dont.have any inside info, but Intel has all the symptoms of a company with people problems.
I get the feeling Intel is where you land if your looking for security. People that create the future also tend to be less worried about that... trusting they will create security. (some may be deluded... still)
 

Lakados

2[H]4U
Joined
Feb 3, 2014
Messages
2,426
Crazy rumors floating around today. Big order at TSMC for Intel but info as to which Intel products will be manufactured at TSMC isn't clear yet. I would guess that they wouldn't move CPU's over to the Taiwanese foundry and instead do GPUs and chipsets but this is huge news if true. Apparently they are ordering 180K wafers which is similar to the size of the order that AMD has with TSMC (200k wafers). How big a deal this is really depends on which products Intel is offloading-- chipsets not so interesting, Xe graphics the most likely in my opinion, and if it is CPUs that would be crazy.

https://hexus.net/business/news/components/144379-amd-intel-battle-tsmc-capacity-says-report/
https://seekingalpha.com/news/3595175-tsmc-gets-large-intel-chip-order-apple-r-and-d-plant-reports
Intel stated a while back that their nodes and processes are not designed for GPU’s in mind and that they would have to outsource those production jobs to TSMC. So that’s probably it, with their new 10nm stacking dyes they can mix and match chips from different processes onto one so they are probably getting that ready.
 
Joined
Jan 14, 2012
Messages
747
10Gbit was a step too far, too early for SOHO / Consumer when industry adopted it, and it only started catching on when industry was tossing it out...

Multi-gig seems to be only really catching on now due to the all-around costs of 10Gbit outside of datacenter amortization schedules, and the adoption of 2.5Gbit (and probably 5Gbit) likely depends on commercial adoption on corporate desktops / workstations and access points and the like, IMO.
I have to agree with this from first hand experience. I installed 10Gbit wired network in my new house and I have a mix of connections due to cost... The 10Gbit connections I can't even come close to maxing out. Actually, my 4 Disk RAID array doesn't even reliably hit 5Gbit on transfers. It's impressive when I'm dumping video files back and forth, and I am the envy of my friends... But for my purposes anything past 5 Gbit is massively overkill (as I discovered). The only way I can even come close to the rated speeds would be from SSD/M.2 drive to drive over my network. I will do that if I ever have money again.. the Covid pandemic destroyed my job opportunities.

Then, there's that other issue. Like all the oddities of running a 10Gbit cards in a home network environment. Hell, half the time Windows doesn't even wake my NICs up... I haven't posted in forever as I have been remodeling, landscaping and all that stuff. Now, I work at Menards... from a high level IT position... I think I will actually be happier in the long run. IT is such a cutthroat industry.

My home network is a mixture of Cat7 and 6A. All my 5 and 2.5 G connections are on 6A and only the 5 G connections run reliably. The 2.5 ones run like hot garbage.

Just lovin' having that sweet, next gen, network ;)
 

Lakados

2[H]4U
Joined
Feb 3, 2014
Messages
2,426
I have to agree with this from first hand experience. I installed 10Gbit wired network in my new house and I have a mix of connections due to cost... The 10Gbit connections I can't even come close to maxing out. Actually, my 4 Disk RAID array doesn't even reliably hit 5Gbit on transfers. It's impressive when I'm dumping video files back and forth, and I am the envy of my friends... But for my purposes anything past 5 Gbit is massively overkill (as I discovered). The only way I can even come close to the rated speeds would be from SSD/M.2 drive to drive over my network. I will do that if I ever have money again.. the Covid pandemic destroyed my job opportunities.

Then, there's that other issue. Like all the oddities of running a 10Gbit cards in a home network environment. Hell, half the time Windows doesn't even wake my NICs up... I haven't posted in forever as I have been remodeling, landscaping and all that stuff. Now, I work at Menards... from a high level IT position... I think I will actually be happier in the long run. IT is such a cutthroat industry.

My home network is a mixture of Cat7 and 6A. All my 5 and 2.5 G connections are on 6A and only the 5 G connections run reliably. The 2.5 ones run like hot garbage.

Just lovin' having that sweet, next gen, network ;)
The problem I have found with 2.5 is, it wasn’t quite standardized until recently so a lot of the 2.5 stuff isn’t cross compatible between different hardware vendors. 5 was a proper standard when most put it out there so it works most reliable between the lot. 10.... Works great in server rooms and closets, but it’s too easy to interfere with in most buildings, Air handlers, A/C, lighting ballasts, PA systems, they all generate noise that interferes with it. And given the cost of Cat7a and getting cable that is fire rated if god forbid I need to pass it through a load bearing wall Multi-Mode fibre is just cheaper and easier especially if you know the length of your run, you can buy it pre terminated and tested for cheap.
 

Balkroth

Limp Gawd
Joined
Dec 15, 2011
Messages
264
I have to agree with this from first hand experience. I installed 10Gbit wired network in my new house and I have a mix of connections due to cost... The 10Gbit connections I can't even come close to maxing out. Actually, my 4 Disk RAID array doesn't even reliably hit 5Gbit on transfers. It's impressive when I'm dumping video files back and forth, and I am the envy of my friends... But for my purposes anything past 5 Gbit is massively overkill (as I discovered). The only way I can even come close to the rated speeds would be from SSD/M.2 drive to drive over my network. I will do that if I ever have money again.. the Covid pandemic destroyed my job opportunities.

Then, there's that other issue. Like all the oddities of running a 10Gbit cards in a home network environment. Hell, half the time Windows doesn't even wake my NICs up... I haven't posted in forever as I have been remodeling, landscaping and all that stuff. Now, I work at Menards... from a high level IT position... I think I will actually be happier in the long run. IT is such a cutthroat industry.

My home network is a mixture of Cat7 and 6A. All my 5 and 2.5 G connections are on 6A and only the 5 G connections run reliably. The 2.5 ones run like hot garbage.

Just lovin' having that sweet, next gen, network ;)
I pretty much have my whole network as fiber at this point, it's relatively cheap to do 10G + at your house, even getting the laptops on board is pretty cheap , now cheap is relative, but I'd do everything fiber over 10G-T
 

KillA_KIA

n00b
Joined
Dec 27, 2018
Messages
41
When Intel finally gets to 5nm, AMD will have gone to theoretical minimum. This means it is time to ditch the old codgers (intel). They will 14+++ to infinity! If they are smart, they will use TSMC facilities as their own seems to really be lacking. Also, with the hacked 20Gb document file, I am sure that people should just stop using intel all together as they have a plethora of security vulnerabilities, including their files.
 
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