From ATI to AMD back to ATI? A Journey in Futility @ [H]

like i said if nvidia came back with huge price cuts on older chips like dropping the 980 ti to 250-350 they would shut down amd's momentum but not going to happen we won't even see it go down to 450 new. Question is where will the 1060 land on the charts if it is lower than the 470 for more money i dont know it will need some big bang for the buck numbers...
 
Drep said:
because that's a common issue with alot of the comments on here. people are complaining that AMD's under $200 card is only on par with performance they had from a year 1/2 old card (980). From that logic, why did the 960 get great a great review here when it couldn't even beat the year and half old 780.
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Consistent, across the board GF980 performance out of the 480 remains to be seen. AMD should never be given the benefit of the doubt after repeated over promising. This type of product is nothing new for AMD, this is their par for the course. Bad thermals/power draw/noise/drivers (compared to their competition, and yes on the high end AMD is going to show their failings much more than with Polaris), but good raw frames per dollar. Nothing has changed, and the end result in the market won't change from the last 20 years either for ATI->AMD. Its been an agonizing, slow death.
We're already 1 death in for ATI, and the fat lady is warming up for death #2.

Doing the same thing over and over, expecting a different result is insanity. It's a shame because this has never worked in the past. From AMD's press releases, I was expecting a better/more serious attempt at increasing efficiency than the 480 150W TDP going up against 1070 150W TDP.

It's absolutely true that AMD's most devout 5850/7850 cheap asses are going to come in droves and pick the meat off AMD's bones to get their 480s. Still leaving them for dead, though. If only the AMD hardliners were buying multiple FuryX cards, AMD wouldn't be in this situation.

I thought maybe they had something. It was clear they didn't a number of months ago when they said "new strategy, TAM!"
 
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Drep said:
because that's a common issue with alot of the comments on here. people are complaining that AMD's under $200 card is only on par with performance they had from a year 1/2 old card (980). From that logic, why did the 960 get great a great review here when it couldn't even beat the year and half old 780.
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Beat a 760 yes. Beat a 770 maybe. Beat a 780 not expected.
Your post doesnt have a point and you're using this to complain about other posts.
Heh.

ps that year and half old card is not ancient, it was from the previous generation.
 
At this point, will nVidia be forced to sell the GTX 1060's at $199 to match the 480? I'm guessing performance between the two will be very close. Without the 480 in the way, I would imagine they had their sites set on a $279ish msrp originally, which would make sense at $100 less than a 1070.
 
Singularity_Survivor said:
At this point, will nVidia be forced to sell the GTX 1060's at $199 to match the 480? I'm guessing performance between the two will be very close. Without the 480 in the way, I would imagine they had their sites set on a $279ish msrp originally, which would make sense at $100 less than a 1070.
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From what is rumored, the RX 480 8GB will be $250. If the 1060 is faster than a GTX 980 I can see the 4GB selling for $225 and the 8 GB for $279.
This places the 1060 ahead of the RX480 near same price point.People will pay the extra $30 for a faster card.
 
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Putting the 480 against the 1070 is dumb, unless you're going to do two 480 in CF vs. one 1070. The TDP doesn't matter to most people until it makes flames shoot out the back of the card. The fact is most of the [H]ardcore people here are not interested in ANY $200 card, only what it can tell us about AMD's eventual high end ($400+) lineup. What it looks like to me is AMD's high end cards will shoot fire out the back and still suck performance wise once they do come out.
 
Singularity_Survivor said:
At this point, will nVidia be forced to sell the GTX 1060's at $199 to match the 480? I'm guessing performance between the two will be very close. Without the 480 in the way, I would imagine they had their sites set on a $279ish msrp originally, which would make sense at $100 less than a 1070.
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nV has two options, either match the performance of a 970/980 and price it at $199 or match the performance of the overclocked 970's and 980's, which the second is probably what they will do, because that is what they did with the 1080, they matched the overclocked versions of the 980ti.

So lets say they have two versions of the1060 one at 199 and another at 250ish sounds reasonable, then introduce a 1060ti at the 320 range.

now power usage wise that will be interesting cause the gm206 actually wasn't the most perf/watt cards in the maxwell 2 line up, so perf/watt might end up the same as AMD's offerings if nV didn't look into that for the 1060, which I think they will do, cause the 950/960 reviewers did point this out.
 
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I'm mainly looking forward to ~$100 GF960s on clearance and $200 GF1060s because of the 480. Of course, we didn't "need" AMD here, if no one paid $280 for a 1060, prices would've fallen anyway till sales picked up. It just would've taken a little longer until 960 buyers were convinced to upgrade.

Given my 87C triple display output temps with my Radeon, poor Linux driver, abysmal OGL performance and sluggish desktop optimization with old CPUs...the main purpose of Polaris is driving Nvidia faster into releasing their 1060/1050 cards. Getting into the $200 and below markets is something NV seems reluctant to do otherwise. That's smart and why they're rich, powerful and have dominant designs each and every year, right. Nvidia Poverty Gaming Evolved isn't a thing.

AMD never got rich off those 5850s, 7850s, or 380s in the past. Won't now either. Contrary to claims that "1000000 GPUs at $200 is beTTAR than 100 GPYUZ at $600!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
No, it clearly is not better, at all.

As the seekingalpha article Kyle linked suggested, racing to the bottom is an AMD CPU, and now AMD GPU "strategy".

What happened to AMD? The company that gave us the socket-a Athlon and Athlon64? They bought ATI. A company that has always been full of morons. No way around it. AMD was sitting just fine without the anchor that is ATI. What's done is done, and AMD is screwed now.

The future wasn't Fusion. The future was AMD focusing more and more towards the server room where the x86 goldmine is, and forgetting about the consumer market, ATI and GPUs. Unbelievable that a company with a lock on x86, which so few have, can get ran out of a 2-horse race like they have been.

Singularity_Survivor said:
I agree, two completely different price brackets.
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I don't think anyone is comparing the 1070 to the 480. The point is what Nvidia can do with 150watts vs what AMD can do with it. Completely different league. Nvidia has long legs, again.
 
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Am I the only one who reads 480 and instantly thinks GTX 480 over and over again?
 
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Drep said:
What is the actual beef with this card? When the 960 was released, it could not beat an old 780 @1080p. [H] gave it a great review along with a Silver award only knocking it down because it had 2GB of memory. Now here is an under $200 card that looks like it can keep up with a 980 @1440p, it has 4GB of memory and it's getting dogged out.

"One thing very exciting about the new GeForce GTX 960, is the price point NVIDIA is targeting. NVIDIA is pricing the GeForce GTX 960 at an MSRP of $199. This surprised us and is lower than we were expecting. When we think of the "sweet spot" of video card pricing we generally think of a price point around $250,
so it excites us to see NVIDIA being aggressive with this target"


Or is only getting dogged out because AMD isn't competing in the high end?
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[H] gave the 380 a great review too, so whats your point?
 
Singularity_Survivor said:
At this point, will nVidia be forced to sell the GTX 1060's at $199 to match the 480? I'm guessing performance between the two will be very close. Without the 480 in the way, I would imagine they had their sites set on a $279ish msrp originally, which would make sense at $100 less than a 1070.
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Not at all. Even if the 1060 is on par with the RX480, you'll probably pay the nvidia tax, simply because nvidia can afford to charge more.
 
Looks like a solid release. 980/fury performance for 200$ sounds great (pending reviews). Not exciting, but encouraging for AMD. 960/380 and older generation owners have an easy upgrade path for good 1080p gaming. Polaris was never meant to battle with GP104 and the die size difference makes it obvious.

For me personally , though, the only interesting card is P11 for a HTPC, but it looks like it'll be great.

Also, I wouldn't take the TDP numbers too strictly, I'm betting that the actual numbers are more ~125W and not 150W, but reviews will show us if I'm wrong.

I'm not sure how much this will tell us about Vega. There's some time left for that release, and they will also use HBM, so who knows?
 
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Zarathustra[H] said:
Ugh, even if AoTS were a good representative title for benchmarking, pitting any dual GPU solution against a single GPU solution is a major face palm.

Pitting Crossfire against any single GPU solution is a double facepalm.

Dual GPU is what you do if - and only if - the fastest single GPU solution available isn't fast enough. All the problems that come along with dual GPU setups are such headaches that they are best avoided all together, and this is especially true of Crossfire, which I consider absolute junk. SLI is slightly better, but still nothing to write home about.

You may get better overall average framerates, but at the expense of what? Stutter, horrible min framerates, added input lag, and that's if they game you want to play runs at all.


So, in this slide they are cherry picking the one title they do best in, and then suggesting the use of a near crippling dual GPU setup to overcome their competition...

jiFfM.jpg
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CFX Facepalm :ROFLMAO:
 
bildad said:
Having a halo product is important and does help sell the lower end models. Years ago when the Ford GT came out I saw one sitting on the show room floor. It wasn't for sale. I asked the manager why it wasn't for sale. He said "Because it sells a lot of Mustang GTs." Very few will buy the halo product, but it gives a certain level of cachet to everything below it and make them more attractive and desirable. As it stands, the best AMD can muster is a 5th place finish. The Fury X is below the 1080, 1070, Titan X, and 980 ti. If your're the average joe shopper and see a particular company's products occupy the top 4 positions and the competition's best offering can only place 5th, who are they going to go with? The one with the top 4. Because they must be pretty good if they can do so well.
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OEM's are major drivers of GPU. If amd can stock every hp, dell, etc and all apple computers with RX 480 that is a shit load of market. If every PC under a grand has this card, it all of the sudden becomes a decent gaming rig. That's their main goal. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to see AMD is already gaining market share. OEMs like cheap, they care about their bottom dollar. This card gives them that. AMD wouldn't give 2 shits about anyone else. That's the honest truth. If you are a 1080 or 1440p gamer and 200 dollar card will give you playable performance just as the 400 dollar card. Well you just wasted 200 bucks. It depends on what resolution you are going to game at. 4k and top 1% ofcourse this card isn't for you or me. I am looking to do 4k by the end of the year but I won't purchase either card for me. I am waiting until HMB2 cards come out. Only then I will pick if its going to be nvidia or amd. For now this card will serve plenty of people good for the price.
 
This is simple. Price is 200 lol. If you compare it to nvidia cards that are from 379-699, you are just plain being ignorant. Seriously almost half the price of a 1070 and you want a 1070 performance. WTF? lol

Vega will be before the end of the year and you can judge high end then. Rest is stupid.
 
NKD said:
This is simple. Price is 200 lol. If you compare it to nvidia cards that are from 379-699, you are just plain being ignorant. Seriously almost half the price of a 1070 and you want a 1070 performance. WTF? lol

Vega will be before the end of the year and you can judge high end then. Rest is stupid.
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I bet it performs very close in performance on dx12 games even if its not intended to. Cant wait to see the future benchmarks:)
 
I have a feeling that buying a 480x is going to be like picking the last meaty bits off a dying gazelle. Price/performance may be good, but the market is going to be a different, amd sadly less competitive, landscape for some time after.
 
housecat said:
And the 150watt figure is exactly why the 480 is DOA. The 1070 is also 150watt TDP and will completely obliterate this thing.
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All good for Nvidia and not for the customers. Otherwise why would the 1080 have a 1.25V hard lock and pathetic 2.4GHz on LN2? Not to mention the 1070 has OC capabilities of a Fury.. but not one of you green tinted provocateurs has bitched about that yet, because Nvidia hear no evil, see no evil, taste no evil. Meanwhile we can all smell the bullshit.

150W doesn't mean shit to the consumer of dGPUs, nor OEMs when you're in that >200W envelope. A PSU thats 300W or 400W is literally a few dollars difference at those volumes and thermal penalty means almost nothing if you have any sort of overhead in a design.

What does matter, is price. AMD has even exceeded our best expectations of price. We expected $250-300.. not $200-230.
 
NKD said:
This is simple. Price is 200 lol. If you compare it to nvidia cards that are from 379-699, you are just plain being ignorant. Seriously almost half the price of a 1070 and you want a 1070 performance. WTF? lol

Vega will be before the end of the year and you can judge high end then. Rest is stupid.
Click to expand...
Why not? The 1070 is better than a Fury X at half the cost.
 
harmattan said:
I have a feeling that buying a 480x is going to be like picking the last meaty bits off a dying gazelle. Price/performance may be good, but the market is going to be a different, amd sadly less competitive, landscape for some time after.
Click to expand...

galo_velho_zpsdouulw2b.jpg


LOL
 
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jwcalla said:
I think there's concern about the architecture. If they need 150W to compete with a 980, how much performance could they get out of a 300W chip? Who knows, I guess we'll see what Vega brings, etc., but will Vega be so dramatically more power efficient?
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I pointed this out before, but Raja was careful not to give single card performance during the keynote.
Apart from the brief Doom segment (which HWC confirm was a 1080p run), you were treated/evangelized on the AoTS pitch.

AMD, Async, AoTS - we've heard this pitch over and over for the last 12 months.

If AMD wants to capture mindshare, they should have demonstrated that AMD can compete on level ground without the benefit of an AMD-partner title, not relying on Async, and not on a game I'm not interested in playing. That way, if you play a non-AMD title, you should *still* be getting competitive performance.

AMD made no effort to demonstrate that - disappointing.

Per reddit users, there is some indication that RX 480 should have some overclocking headroom - and that AIB partners will be taking advantage of this.
After Joe Macri yapping about "overclocker's dream" - I need to see this proven first. June 29th is when comparisons can finally be made :p
 
Going to stir the pot a little here, although this likely is just one of AMD's partners helping with potential sales and hype:

Hey guys, Ed with Sapphire here.

For those of you that do not know my background I was a reviewer for 20 years plus with a weekly radio show on PC Gaming and Technology. During those 20 years I preached from the pulpit of the mainstream users and put all my focuses and efforts there.

The announcement of the 480 is to me a vindication of my position that enthusiast are great but the mainstream is where the people live.

For to long the mainstream market has felt like it was getting table scraps. We would see uber high ends cards come out and then the mainstream would get something toned down, the leftovers from the high end banquet.

The 480, to me, marks a long time coming in that the mainstream is being given the chance at the table first. We are not getting leftovers we are getting the main course. To me this is really exciting.

Think about it this way...

A good king will make sure his nobles have nice bobbles and keeps them happy. A GREAT king will make sure EVERYONE in his kingdom has plenty at their table. AMD has shown with this launch which of the big two care more about the entirety of computer gaming.

Well done AMD.
​
From: https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/4m6q7r/took_long_enough/
 
Well the above is really an apt description of AMD's last generation (and a bit) in that segment. You're choices on the desktop were either Tonga that had a mobile (or Apple) focus, so arguably scraps. Or Hawaii, which was the previous gens high end just price slashed (scraps). Or Tahiti parts also slashed (even older). This was a stark contrast to really prior generations where you really got last gens high end performance and the new generations features and efficiency.

Although it still looks like it won't get their in terms of performance (Fury X) at least Polaris will give this area the latest technology, which is much better then just cutting Hawaii prices again (which would be scraps).

Although hopefully RX 480 won't be a cut die and the full configuration reserved for elsewhere o_O
 
The 4870 was wildly successful for AMD. There is no reason to think they wouldnt try that strategy again. The 480 could very well be them trying to make a new 4870, and that sounds like a great idea to me.
 
Cali3350 said:
The 4870 was wildly successful for AMD. There is no reason to think they wouldnt try that strategy again. The 480 could very well be them trying to make a new 4870, and that sounds like a great idea to me.
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4870, was better in most metrics and close in performance that's why it worked, this time, AMD is still behind in perf/watt and definitely behind in performance. Different scenario.
 
Ch40s said:
As for "rigged" AotS benchmark, Robber Hallock shed some light on the situation on Reddit. Unfortunately I can't post a link since this is a fresh account but this is what he said:

"At present the GTX 1080 is incorrectly executing the terrain shaders responsible for populating the environment with the appropriate amount of snow. The GTX 1080 is doing less work to render AOTS than it otherwise would if the shader were being run properly. Snow is somewhat flat and boring in color compared to shiny rocks, which gives the illusion that less is being rendered, but this is an incorrect interpretation of how the terrain shaders are functioning in this title."
Click to expand...

Robert Hallock as in the AMD PR person? On /r/AMD I presume? Truly a place for 100% true and sound information.
 
staknhalo said:
AMD investigate claims of AMD wrongdoing and found AMD not at fault. AMD.
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Well sure, let's just instead send in an independent council of GFX Police to investigate the legitimacy of their claims, and throw them in GFX Jail if they were lying.

I mean, come on, what do you expect them to realistically say? "My bad, our product sucks!"
 
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Cali3350 said:
The 4870 was wildly successful for AMD. There is no reason to think they wouldnt try that strategy again. The 480 could very well be them trying to make a new 4870, and that sounds like a great idea to me.
Click to expand...

This is really not the same situation at all. The 4870 was very close to the top card at the time while having a very competitive perf/watt etc.
Yes, AMD was good and worth talking about back then.
 
kalston said:
This is really not the same situation at all. The 4870 was very close to the top card at the time while having a very competitive perf/watt etc.
Yes, AMD was good and worth talking about back then.
Click to expand...


True, side note is they aren't as behind in perf/watt as last gen, so depending on how the 1060 is, they should be able to gain some marketshare no matter what, because they are coming from a low point, but to expect the rx480 to do what the 4xxx series did, nah not a chance.
 
This is just sad really. Especially for those that remember the glory days of ATI/AMD. Thumbs up again to Kyle for straight talk, even though it's sad as fuck.
 
Zion Halcyon said:
Going to stir the pot a little here, although this likely is just one of AMD's partners helping with potential sales and hype:

Hey guys, Ed with Sapphire here.

For those of you that do not know my background I was a reviewer for 20 years plus with a weekly radio show on PC Gaming and Technology. During those 20 years I preached from the pulpit of the mainstream users and put all my focuses and efforts there.

The announcement of the 480 is to me a vindication of my position that enthusiast are great but the mainstream is where the people live.

For to long the mainstream market has felt like it was getting table scraps. We would see uber high ends cards come out and then the mainstream would get something toned down, the leftovers from the high end banquet.

The 480, to me, marks a long time coming in that the mainstream is being given the chance at the table first. We are not getting leftovers we are getting the main course. To me this is really exciting.

Think about it this way...

A good king will make sure his nobles have nice bobbles and keeps them happy. A GREAT king will make sure EVERYONE in his kingdom has plenty at their table. AMD has shown with this launch which of the big two care more about the entirety of computer gaming.

Well done AMD.
​
From: Took Long Enough • /r/Amd
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So a dude who works for a major AMD AIB partner and, who regularly and actively seeds the twitter fanboy brigade known as Red Team Plus with free products, thinks this new generation of AMD products is "well done"? Oh, and preaching it to the choir known as the AMD subreddit

color me shocked :D
 
staknhalo said:
TRULY ON THE REBOUND! ;):LOL::ROFLMAO::joyful:
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Well, the stock is still up 130% since its low in January and 155% since its 52 week low last July. The commenters' defense of Polaris and lack of a real Zen update/demo is astonishing.
 
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