From ATI to AMD back to ATI? A Journey in Futility @ [H]

Im not up to date on how laptops and mobile stuff is made but whats to stop Intel from slapping on a Nvidia GPU instead of an AMD GPU later? My impression of EMIB is somewhere half between a APU/iGPU vs a dGPU, is that correct?

In the future, Intel may just sell to OEMs versions including Nvidia's GPUs instead of AMD's GPUs. In one way, this could be a play against Nvidia, another way, Intel gets to use cheaper AMD to test trial their first consumer EMIB parts before either playing off AMD vs Nvidia or simply just fighting AMD's APUs with Nvidia's GPUs using EMIB. (Sidestepping any potential Apple influence in this equation)

Im assuming of course EMIB is a way for Intel to rely on using 3rd parties (goodbye Intel GPU R&D) to supply GPU parts without messy IP licensing and etc that would come from trying to make a iGPU part, yet provides better performance and thermals vs a dGPU.
 
HBM2 compactness makes this work, DDRx takes too much space up plus draws more power. I don't see Nvidia having anything this small using HBM2 at this time, not even Volta, so maybe a long time before Nvidia can compete here (Nvidia if they want to can really turn things around too). One stack of HBM2 is a 1024bit bus up to 8GB of memory, so 2, 4 and 8 GB combo's are possible, fastest HBM2 would give 256gb/s. This possibly could be Vega 11 custom design for ultra low power (I do not see it being Polaris). This is very exciting news and 2017 for me has surpassed all other years in computer fun. HEDT CPU performance at sub $300, HEDT desktops rivalling high end Zeon workstation processors for less than $1000, I mean $900. VR advancements with multiple vendors and sets hitting the market with lowering prices, advancements in monitor tech and the list goes on. 2017 just has been a great year for us.

Also would like to add, bravo to AMD in actually getting RTG separate and acting like a real company. That was the biggest beef I had with AMD buying ATI, for a long while we lost that ATI/Intel relationship. Just like Intel working with RTG to get great options out there also means AMD and Nvidia should also be working together for other options as well. This is where all the companies can win out especially us.

This also opens up the possibility of an Intel/RTG console come to think about it.
 
noko said:
HBM2 compactness makes this work, DDRx takes too much space up plus draws more power. I don't see Nvidia having anything this small using HBM2 at this time, not even Volta, so maybe a long time before Nvidia can compete here (Nvidia if they want to can really turn things around too). One stack of HBM2 is a 1024bit bus up to 8GB of memory, so 2, 4 and 8 GB combo's are possible, fastest HBM2 would give 256gb/s. This possibly could be Vega 11 custom design for ultra low power (I do not see it being Polaris). This is very exciting news and 2017 for me has surpassed all other years in computer fun. HEDT CPU performance at sub $300, HEDT desktops rivalling high end Zeon workstation processors for less than $1000, I mean $900. VR advancements with multiple vendors and sets hitting the market with lowering prices, advancements in monitor tech and the list goes on. 2017 just has been a great year for us.

Also would like to add, bravo to AMD in actually getting RTG separate and acting like a real company. That was the biggest beef I had with AMD buying ATI, for a long while we lost that ATI/Intel relationship. Just like Intel working with RTG to get great options out there also means AMD and Nvidia should also be working together for other options as well. This is where all the companies can win out especially us.

This also opens up the possibility of an Intel/RTG console come to think about it.
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nVidia's been using HBM for quite some time now. Why wouldn't they be able to do this with Intel?
 
Dayaks said:
nVidia's been using HBM for quite some time now. Why wouldn't they be able to do this with Intel?
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HBM for P100 and V100 for HPC, nothing on the consumer/small scale at all. Volta looks to be using DDR5(x,6) for the consumer.
 
noko said:
HBM for P100 and V100 for HPC, nothing on the consumer/small scale at all. Volta looks to be using DDR5(x,6) for the consumer.
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So they've been using it with the same architecture. There's really no reason they couldn't do it. Either they were under cut by AMD or it wasn't enough market space to justify it. It wouldn't be a technical hurdle.
 
Dayaks said:
So they've been using it with the same architecture. There's really no reason they couldn't do it. Either they were under cut by AMD or it wasn't enough market space to justify it. It wouldn't be a technical hurdle.
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Just the chip memory controller, as in Volta would need to have it - custom skew from Nvidia sure. I just have not heard or seen anything indicating Nvidia pursuing the consumer end products to use HBM. Now I do hope the P100 comes out in the next fourth edition of the Titan X Collector Edition but that is not a small mobile part at all. If Volta has a version or incorporates both DDR and HBM into it is to be seen. The good news is Nvidia with the P100 and Quadro probably worked out the drivers to work with graphics using HBM memory.

The chip will have to support the bus width, as in the huge number of pins needed for the wider memory bus - 1024bit and up for HBM up to 4096 bit for 4 stacks. It is not plug and play in other words.
 
Dayaks said:
So they've been using it with the same architecture. There's really no reason they couldn't do it. Either they were under cut by AMD or it wasn't enough market space to justify it. It wouldn't be a technical hurdle.
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Not the market Nvidia is focused on these days.
 
Gideon said:
It's on the high preset for 1080p not the low preset.
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1080p LOW, it's says so right in the benchmark itself:

55TkN1IFfCV6SuQz.jpg


https://www.techpowerup.com/238542/intel-amd-mcm-core-i7-design-specs-benchmarks-leaked
 
IdiotInCharge said:
Which may be why they chose not to do this, but there's no reason that they couldn't.

This implementation of HBM isn't even particularly challenging.
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Yes they could and did already for HPC so you're right, this would be simpler. Now if they did this for Volta consumer or not is another thing which does not appear will be in the cards for consumer Volta. Now will AMD also have a package solution as well upcoming? They have indicated in the past such designs so the story may not end here with Intel.

AMD is looking good in getting graphics products back into the mobile market as well as cpu's. Well maybe I should say increase their presence.
 
Hameeeedo said:
Maybe we are not far apart, @low it scored 50fps~60fps, @High it scored 33fps, still incredibly low.
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Found these for comparison, granted earlier drivers but gives a idea. These were from late 2015 so a bit more dated then I thought, but still a decent look.
5c014cb7-e6f3-4547-bf0d-e618166b1718.jpg
 
Correct me if I’m wrong. Technically, there is no licensing deal. AMD is selling them a semi-custom chip to integrate, right?
 
The only license may pertain to software and drivers. Nothing to design hardware, but who knows? With Intel devs working on AMD drivers, it would make sense techs like FreeSync carry over in some form. These chips should have still had the integrated GPU, so the Intel portion may be responsible for displays. Most of those should have been open, but may need a closer look. Regardless it strays from the original intent of any IP licensing.
 
Any chance AMD might get to use EMIB on their own HBM parts? Packaging seems to be a major cost and bottleneck for Vega
 
Wonder how the stocks are gonna handle this new tidbit. It was one thing for Raja to leave, another thing for him to go to Intel. Probably settle around $10.
 
sabrewolf732 said:
This is like a soap opera. Days of our gpus.

Seems kind of grimey on Raja's part.
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Why?

Its common in any industry. nV and AMD employees have gone back and forth there too.

This is was well know for a while actually, Raja has been talking to Intel for a long time.

AMD better hope there is no bad blood between them and Raja.
 
razor1 said:
Why?

Its common in any industry. nV and AMD employees have gone back and forth there too.

This is was well know for a while actually, Raja has been talking to Intel for a long time.

AMD better hope there is no bad blood between them and Raja.
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Based on Kyle's article, I feel there is already bad blood between RTG and AMD when Raja still helming RTG. With how Vega launch and his so called break and then exit of RTG, one cannot help to think that is he force out of his position.
 
razor1 said:
Why?

Its common in any industry. nV and AMD employees have gone back and forth there too.

This is was well know for a while actually, Raja has been talking to Intel for a long time.

AMD better hope there is no bad blood between them and Raja.
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I have little experience in the industry so I wasn't aware.

Are people not made to sign non compete clauses?
 
sabrewolf732 said:
I have little experience in the industry so I wasn't aware.

Are people not made to sign non compete clauses?
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Non compete clauses, in terms of preventing working for a competitor is illegal in the California; however he may have a non compete clauses regarding trade secrets.
 
Dayman said:
Non compete clauses are completely void in CA(Cali)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-compete_clause#California
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Yes but industrial espionage however is still illegal, so if he uses AMD tech to enhance Intel tech he could be in trouble. But not uncommon for engineers from one company to go to a rival, happens quite a bit in the auto industry. Tho I always thought the head engineer pushed it that created the PT cruiser and later left to GM and designed the HHR.
 
Not sure why people are acting like this is bad for Raja. I heard Intel has way more cash for H&B and we know Raja likes to party.

IMG_4169.GIF

But yes he has to be careful with AMD IP. There's only so many places to get talent so this is somewhat normal.
 
sabrewolf732 said:
I have little experience in the industry so I wasn't aware.

Are people not made to sign non compete clauses?
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can't sign non compete clauses, they never upload in court. A company can't stop a person from making a lively hood, they can stop them from using their IP, but that really only goes so far as the person's ideas based on a certain IP can now be looked at as a different invention as long as the next company they work for has relevant IP that is similar.
 
Dayman said:
https://newsroom.intel.com/news-releases/raja-koduri-joins-intel/

ITS OFFICIAL

"Koduri will expand Intel’s leading position in integrated graphics for the PC market with high-end discrete graphics solutions for a broad range of computing segments."

Intel moving into the High End Discrete GPU market!
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Interesting, makes me wonder if RTG being spin off is still a possibility with AMD and get bought by Intel, especially since AMD is really going back to its CPU roots.
 
Not without an IP license they won't

this probably means the AMD graphics partnership may have more to it than what was announced so far
 
ecmaster76 said:
Not without an IP license they won't

this probably means the AMD graphics partnership may have more to it than what was announced so far
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It's clear they inked some serious licensing deal with AMD already. We don't know the details but imo it means that AMD and Intel have seriously joined forces.
 
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