From ATI to AMD back to ATI? A Journey in Futility @ [H]

Ok what's in it for AMD? why not make a Ryzen + Vega for this sector instead of relying on Intel CPUs!
 
Hameeeedo said:
Ok what's in it for AMD? why not make a Ryzen + Vega for this sector instead of relying on Intel CPUs!
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good question why haven't they done it. Cause its not a product that will sell well, its a premium cost product where AMD is not in that bracket. For the GPU performance it will get its not going to worth it to be in that bracket either. So its gotta be a very specific, high end, high margin, targeted market Intel is going for. Apple fits all those bills.


Gideon said:
They do make a Ryzen version. In this case they are going for market share and added revenue.
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Where, mythical Greenland? The one that everyone thought was a monster Vega 10 GPU on an MCM?

Intel is going for market share, not AMD, this is an Intel product. AMD is hoping to gain from Intel's gain, if this is an Apple product, then no they aren't going to get much.
 
Then why would Intel use AMD solutions? cheaper price? Why not use NVIDIA or even their own solution?
 
Hameeeedo said:
Then why would Intel use AMD solutions? cheaper price? Why not use NVIDIA or even their own solution?
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Self evident, NVidia can play hardball.
Nvidia has to want to do it and they will for sure charge more if they do.
The license terms would no doubt be more restrictive too.

Intel cant match the performance of AMD gfx without acquiring IP.
Then they have to make their own design unless they want to acquire more IP.
etc.
 
razor1 said:
good question why haven't they done it. Cause its not a product that will sell well, its a premium cost product where AMD is not in that bracket. For the GPU performance it will get its not going to worth it to be in that bracket either. So its gotta be a very specific, high end, high margin, targeted market Intel is going for. Apple fits all those bills.




Where, mythical Greenland? The one that everyone thought was a monster Vega 10 GPU on an MCM?

Intel is going for market share, not AMD, this is an Intel product. AMD is hoping to gain from Intel's gain, if this is an Apple product, then no they aren't going to get much.
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Look up AMD Ryzen 7 2700U vs 7th Gen APU. Ryzen cpu with Vega gpu.
 
razor1 said:
If its a separate Radeon dies, I really don't see it fitting into thin and light notebooks ;) Its gotta be a very small Vega ;)

Put it this way Polaris uses as much power as a gtx 1080, and we haven't seen the gtx 1080 in any thin and light notebooks. The highest Pascal chip in thin and light is then 1060? Maybe the 1070. That means if its a separate die, they need to be able to get the power consumption below that of the 1070 in notebooks. And added to the thermal density of the MCM package it has to be much lower. Very small Vega, we are talking about rx 460 level or lower performance.

Yeah the report takes a wild leap of faith to go up against nV, its not that, unless they aren't targeting thin and light notebooks.
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So yeah EMIB MCM technology using Vega 11 with HBM2. Cant see the point of a 460 class part with HBM2...

EDIT: https://www.anandtech.com/show/1200...with-amd-radeon-graphics-with-hbm2-using-emib
 
Pretty sure I've been saying I've been wishing for a CPU/GPU with HBM and I was told it wasn't possible.

Just like I got flamed hard for hating on the original Titan X Pascal... then they come out with a full die.

Closed minded smucks. I was right again.
 
SighTurtle said:
Wtf.

Bravo Kyle for being first but goddamn I didn't expect this.

Anandtech: https://www.anandtech.com/show/1200...with-amd-radeon-graphics-with-hbm2-using-emib

Don't bother reading financial sites for hardware info.
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The announcements from Intel and AMD do not state what graphics core they are using (they could be one generation behind for competitive reasons?) however it does state that they are using Core-H series processors, which are typically in the 45W range.
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They have 45 watts for both the CPU and GPU, that doesn't leaves 30 watts or so for the GPU. Which in thin and light is possible. We are looking a low end performance at high costs.

Actually this could be Vega 12?
 
SighTurtle said:
https://newsroom.intel.com/editoria...nce-cpu-discrete-graphics-sleek-thin-devices/

At first glance I don't see a custom project for say Apple. Unless maybe it's a smokescreen and they mean just one OEM.
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I can see this product being used in other OEM's but still specific markets only. Its a cost premium. Dell, HP, Lenovo, they all want what Apple has, so they might jump on board if they feel they can talk Apple's share away, MS too with their surface books, but they just launched their new ones, I would think something like this would be right up their ally, which they have been taking away Apple's share in tablets and notebooks, so why haven't they gone with this? Might not be out of the question because its probably not going to be ready for a few more months.
 
ecmaster76 said:
I imagine the main holdup is Intel's Marketing department trying to figure out how to spin the huge performance gain whilst avoiding bringing any positive light to AMD. Parts have been ready for months if leaks are to be believed.
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Funny enough the press release video today mumbled "Radeon" once and "AMD" never. Sucks for all the hard work at RTG to get buried but getting some gaming market share back is critical at this point
 
ecmaster76 said:
Funny enough the press release video today mumbled "Radeon" once and "AMD" never. Sucks for all the hard work at RTG to get buried but getting some gaming market share back is critical at this point
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The solution can be used with any type of GPU or chips, probably why they didn't mention any AMD specifics. But its easy to see its from AMD since nV has been against bringing HBM down to consumer products due to cost.

They did mention it in their press release
The new product, which will be part of our 8th Gen Intel Core family, brings together our high-performing Intel Core H-series processor, second generation High Bandwidth Memory (HBM2) and a custom-to-Intel third-party discrete graphics chip from AMD’s Radeon Technologies Group* – all in a single processor package.
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ecmaster76 said:
Funny enough the press release video today mumbled "Radeon" once and "AMD" never. Sucks for all the hard work at RTG to get buried but getting some gaming market share back is critical at this point
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Not market share. Money. It's Intel's marketshare. AMD gets cash.
 
ecmaster76 said:
Its still GPU marketshare (IE Steam survey, etc)
They need a wide presence for game developers to take them seriously and use their features, etc
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A second after I clicked reply my mind did wander over there but i did click 'reply'. Yeah good point, depends on what markets and how wide this is gonna be. If it's a premium product like razor said, marketshare won't rise too highly for AMD. (Unless Apple joins in, those laptops sell like fire). Wider deployment, unlikely cause of HBM2, and Ryzen Mobile, would make it rise much higher.
 
SighTurtle said:
A second after I clicked reply my mind did wander over there but i did click 'reply'. Yeah good point, depends on what markets and how wide this is gonna be. If it's a premium product like razor said, marketshare won't rise too highly for AMD. (Unless Apple joins in, those laptops sell like fire). Wider deployment, unlikely cause of HBM2, and Ryzen Mobile, would make it rise much higher.
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I would not be surprised if Apple was a big motivation for Intel to build these. There have been rumblings Apple might move off Intel for devices running OSX but this might be sufficient appeasement
 
Funny how many were wrong on here about Intel using a AMD gpu, even using HBM on the chip as well, yet something else so many arm chair engineers thought would not happen. Will be interesting to see how these chips benchmark.
 
Depending on actual performance and where is this product is going towards, this indeed may pose a threat to Nvidia. Heres the deal, if AMD had simply managed to create a APU or do whatever is Intel is doing with a dGPU, it would still face a massive barrier in the form of Intel's dominance on the CPU and low-end GPU mobile side, and a stranglehold by Nvidia on its mid-high-end mobile GPU side. Marketshare gains here would be hardfought for good reason. Its a growing market, a light in the darkness that is the PC market.

This is way different. Its in intel's interest for these products to sell. They are directly interfering with Nvidia's GPU hold in the mobile market. Intel's marketing will now compete against Nvidia. Of course this assumes that performance will pan out, and this depends on where this product is headed towards. If its for OEMs like Acer or Dell, big problem for Nvidia. If its just for Apple, not a problem.
 
I just want to say kudos to Kyle for getting this info so long ago and sticking to his guns when all the haters were calling him a liar. Good job Kyle. :)
 
Actually, Kyle, do you know which Radeon chip is in this product? It says it is custom but it must be closest to some family of chips (Vega maybe)?
 
Doesn't need to beat a 1060 (but it will beat a *mobile* 1060), just needs to shave 0.64mm thickness off the next MacBook and let them stuff in a larger battery
 
Not even the 1050, have you seen the Ashes of Singularity scores for this thing? Low and 1080p and barely scores 62fps!
 
Yeah, I wouldn't pay much mind to the scores on those leaks. Who knows what driver they were running. I was merely going by the rated throughput to ballpark it against current AMD designs.
 
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