From ATI to AMD back to ATI? A Journey in Futility @ [H]

I don't think they were blacklisted--I'm sure that if next week AMD released a product that didn't need to be heavily spun in order to be looked upon favorably then they would absolutely source it to [H] and give them access. This isn't personal--AMD needs outlets like [H]ardOCP more than [H]ardOCP needs AMD (since they can always buy hardware should they need to so the worst case is that their reviews are published a few days later than everyone else) because AMD needs to reach the very community that reads sites like this in the first place in order to get sales. The fact that they are going for friendly journalists is a bad sign because it means that they don't feel confident that their product can stand up to impartial analysis and AMD has a history of doing this when their product launches are really troubled (Tunis as Kyle mentioned as well as Tahoe on the Phenom side).

[H] is pretty much the only ones who didn't get an invite. Even Linus was invited.
 
So you wrote an entire article on how a 232mm² GPU running at the clock speeds to match the power of a 314mm² GPU, would run hotter, and how a 232mm² GPU would be cheaper than a 314mm² GPU? Who are your sources? They should be given an award for being masters of the obvious.

16nm is roughly 30% bigger than 14nm node (which NVIDIA is using) (16*16 - 14*14)/14*14). So you get about 301.6nm on an equivalent node. That's not to far off from nvidia. But you also have power density issues. Power leakage is does not decrease at the same rate as a node shrink and because you have to handle similar current in the same transistor level the heat generated/sq mm is much higher. This is one of the reasons why Intel is having problems with speed increases despite the node shrinks. Given the characterisitics of FinFET trigate, (which runs very efficiently at a given power envelope, yet ramps horribly) I can see this being an issue. It might explain why they went back to "gate" everything (Shut down not in use transistors to save power)
 
Not satisfied having burned the AMD bridge, Kyle drops a nuke on the ashes. The internet feedback on this article is going to be interesting.....

As far as AMD's future, one only need watch their stock performance for the remainder of the year.

Stock performance does not indicate the health of a company but more of investor confidence of the future.
 
Again, I'm not fanboying here which I know it looks like especially with my sig but these constant negative opinion pieces are making [H] look petty.
Give me a source or two on a great AMD IS THE AWESOME story and I will start doing interviews to flesh it out.
 
[H] is pretty much the only ones who didn't get an invite. Even Linus was invited.

That doesn't mean they are blacklisted from future events, even after publishing this article. Again this is not personal: if AMD has gear to show that is going to compare favorably they will be falling over themselves to get [H] to review it--it's only when they don't that they want to try to control the narrative better.
 
How is this for speculation? Amd sells the RTG to intel and then "buys" nvidia (like Kmart after bankruptcy bought Sears.) All of a sudden Amd has money for R&D and nvidia has the x86 license. Amd exists in name only per the agreement with Intel and nvidia management takes over.

I would laugh my ass off.
 
That doesn't mean they are blacklisted from future events, even after publishing this article. Again this is not personal: if AMD has gear to show that is going to compare favorably they will be falling over themselves to get [H] to review it--it's only when they don't that they want to try to control the narrative better.

[H] wrote an entire article bad mouthing Roy Taylor. At that point, the bridge between them no longer exists. Sorry, but [H] is not alone in being overly critical of AMD, and those others were invited.
 
There's ABSOLUTELY 0 benefit for Kyle to make this stuff up. IF Polaris does become the holy grail of AMD then Kyle will have a little egg on his face. And I know Kyle will not set himself up for that bit of hubris.

I'm not saying Polaris will be a bad part. It's likely priced where it should be in today's card lineups. But it's too little, too late to be an effective seller for AMD IMHO. Middle of the road P10 AIB video cards appeal to prepackaged desktop systems (Minus P11) And desktop system sales have been crap of late. How many want to spend $300 on 3 year old performance when NVIDIA is around the corner offering significantly better for what around 40% more? (Give or take for the 1070)
 
There is only one word for AMD and it is.......HALF ASS.. I built an A10-7870 system in Jan even buying an R7 250 card to use hybrid crossfire. But I ended up using a 2012 GTX660Ti because of lackluster graphics performance. That to me seems Amd's problem Half ass products, performance, drivers and yes management.. I hope Amd gets it together but it is getting obvious it not going to happen. My next system WILL be Intel......
 
The fanboys on other sites are already all spun up. How soon they forget Kyle standing up there on stage with AMD just a short while ago. They simply don't want to admit it, but with the leaks we've seen so far (which have been pretty accurate in the past) P10 isn't going to compete with GP104 by a pretty big margin, so why should we expect Vega to compete with GP100? The only option left is pricing the margins into oblivion.

Personally I favor AMD over the other two even though they have let me down time and time again, maybe its the underdog thing. This kind of stuff just gets old.
 
I don't think they were blacklisted--I'm sure that if next week AMD released a product that didn't need to be heavily spun in order to be looked upon favorably then they would absolutely source it to [H] and give them access. This isn't personal--AMD needs outlets like [H]ardOCP more than [H]ardOCP needs AMD (since they can always buy hardware should they need to so the worst case is that their reviews are published a few days later than everyone else) because AMD needs to reach the very community that reads sites like this in the first place in order to get sales. The fact that they are going for friendly journalists is a bad sign because it means that they don't feel confident that their product can stand up to impartial analysis and AMD has a history of doing this when their product launches are really troubled (Tunis as Kyle mentioned as well as Tahoe on the Phenom side).

Seems like AMD doesn't see it that way. Probably in AMDs mind, review sites are a dime a dozen. There are dozens of reputable sites, and hundreds of bloggers, youtubers and the like, most of which are eager to get free hardware to try out.
 
[H] wrote an entire article bad mouthing Roy Taylor. At that point, the bridge between them no longer exists. Sorry, but [H] is not alone in being overly critical of AMD, and those others were invited.

Believe what you want but I'm telling you that permanent blacklisting of media outlets the size of [H]ardOCP simply doesn't have any historical precedent. There's no upside for AMD to do that (unless they never release a competitive enthusiast product again).
 
Seems like AMD doesn't see it that way. Probably in AMDs mind, review sites are a dime a dozen. There are dozens of reputable sites, and hundreds of bloggers, youtubers and the like, most of which are eager to get free hardware to try out.

If [H]ardOCP was a tiny site with a small readership you would be correct but they aren't--they have one of the biggest audiences in the tech news community and that's public knowledge. AMD can't afford to just discount all those readers and the sales that will be generated because they are upset about the content of an article that was critical of them.

Apply some logic here: does the LA Times get blacklisted by the White House when they publish a story critical of the president? Come on people use your heads. There is no love lost between tech companies and the media but they need each other even if in the short term it might cause some pain.
 
I never said [H] was blacklisted from AMD. I simply said we were not invited to Macau. Now if there is a blacklist, it would not be privy to me, but as it is now, I just take it as it comes. Nano.....no soup for your. Radeon Pro Duo....no soup for you. Polaris 10...dunno yet, time will tell.
 
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Seems like AMD doesn't see it that way. Probably in AMDs mind, review sites are a dime a dozen. There are dozens of reputable sites, and hundreds of bloggers, youtubers and the like, most of which are eager to get free hardware to try out.

Well when your product has issues would you rather give it to fanboy youtuber like AdoredTV or professional review site?
 
How is this for speculation? Amd sells the RTG to intel and then "buys" nvidia (like Kmart after bankruptcy bought Sears.) All of a sudden Amd has money for R&D and nvidia has the x86 license. Amd exists in name only per the agreement with Intel and nvidia management takes over.

Funny if that happen!
 
The fanboys on other sites are already all spun up. How soon they forget Kyle standing up there on stage with AMD just a short while ago. They simply don't want to admit it, but with the leaks we've seen so far (which have been pretty accurate in the past) P10 isn't going to compete with GP104 by a pretty big margin, so why should we expect Vega to compete with GP100? The only option left is pricing the margins into oblivion.

Personally I favor AMD over the other two even though they have let me down time and time again, maybe its the underdog thing. This kind of stuff just gets old.

Yep, and some of those idiots call him all kinds of names and then have the gall to post over here. Anandtech is probably the worse of the bunch. That place is full of rabid fanbois. Anyway, who cares what they think? Kyle brings a truth hammer to all companies. Long live Odin!
 
There's ABSOLUTELY 0 benefit for Kyle to make this stuff up. IF Polaris does become the holy grail of AMD then Kyle will have a little egg on his face. And I know Kyle will not set himself up for that bit of hubris.

I'm not saying Polaris will be a bad part. It's likely priced where it should be in today's card lineups. But it's too little, too late to be an effective seller for AMD IMHO. Middle of the road P10 AIB video cards appeal to prepackaged desktop systems (Minus P11) And desktop system sales have been crap of late. How many want to spend $300 on 3 year old performance when NVIDIA is around the corner offering significantly better for what around 40% more? (Give or take for the 1070)

Right now AMD is yelling "ICEBERG STRAIGHT AHEAD" and telling everyone that all is well don't panic...after all no one can sink this ship

The problem is that he's not completely making stuff up, it's twisting stuff to be negative and throwing in some bs in the mix. Polaris 10 is a 232mm² part, of course it would run hotter if they actually tried to get the thing to power levels of the 1080 because it's a smaller GPU. Except it was never meant to compete with the 1080. They said it was a mainstream part from the outset. It's design was obviously chosen to be released first because they needed something for their semicustom market hence why it's going to be in the new PS4 and Xbox One.
 
Oh the idea that Intel actually using RTG if acquired is laughable, probably would just be sold or sit on a shelf.....
 
you guys fail to realize you will get less and less. Even if there are options at different prices, they can milk for the most profit with the least performance gains. a 970 card in a generation would cost $600. Sure you could get a card that is decent for $300, but you would not get as good as you would have with competition. When you are a monopoly you create the landscape.

This idea that they would have to compete with themselves is also silly. If you are the only option, you think that is as big a factor?

Lol, yes they will need to compete with themselves (their past offerings, what consumers currently have/own) if they want to keep bringing in sales to keep YOY profits up. Or are you suggesting Nvidia doesn't like money and wants their company to go broke and die?
 
One word only Kyle.... Butt hurt
To everyone saying this, I wonder if you guys actually read the entire article.

The main point of the article wasn't to criticize AMD or their product, it's about what info Kyle have gathered about what's going on inside the company. Things that affects the future of AMD/RTG beyond Polaris product cycle.
If you don't like what you read, you should take it up with the person running the company and ask her how the hell did she let things got this bad.
 
Intel has gotten away with it, why do you think Nvidia would be any different?

Intel has said they are hitting technological limitations. It's hurting them and they're laying people off. Are you suggesting they could come out with better products, but don't because they want to not sell products and lose money and lay people off? Why? They hate money or something? Are they allergic to money?

Or are you comparing apples to oranges to suit a narrative? Hitting a technological wall and not being able to increase performance as much vs just not wanting to increase performance?
 
its funny how u guys dont even realize u are as much fanboys as you think others are. Any sensible person would take this article with a grain of salt. Given history and lack of sources etc.

History wise you are wrong: the fact that AMD is doing Macau in the first place has historical precedent in Tunis and Tahoe. We all know how that turned out.

And sources...are you kidding? Business journalism can't cite sources for stories like this--it would completely destroy any future job opportunities for anyone who went on-record giving this information. There are certain fields of reporting that must rely on hidden sources but that doesn't mean that the sources don't exist or are wrong, it just means they aren't willing to trash their ability to feed their families just so that a story can be written.
 
If you are the only option, you think that is as big a factor?

It is...it isn't the old days. nVidia is a publicly traded company and big investors expect growth (profits are a nice bonus but not essential). If nVidia would just milk the cow the investors will go elsewhere. While they might be able to let off the gas a little...they still need to keep pushing pretty hard or be relegated to the space of "commodity item" which any CEO with a modest amount of ego would be sick to death over.
 
History wise you are wrong: the fact that AMD is doing Macau in the first place has historical precedent in Tunis and Tahoe. We all know how that turned out.

And sources...are you kidding? Business journalism can't cite sources for stories like this--it would completely destroy any future job opportunities for anyone who went on-record giving this information. There are certain fields of reporting that must rely on hidden sources but that doesn't mean that the sources don't exist or are wrong, it just means they aren't willing to trash their ability to feed their families just so that a story can be written.

Exactly - no one would want to hire whistle blower after the fact.
 
A person just has to read Roy's twitter feed or Huddy's interviews to know Polaris might not be such a great product.

The louder both asshats get the more disappointing the new cards are. Happened last gen and it will happen with this launch too.
 
As an AMD/ATi fanboy from waaaay back, I am hoping for the best, but preparing for the worst.
 
I get the feeling from these articles you guys really are butt hurt over AMD. But at the same time, I'm going to be full sad panda if this is remotely true, cause I just bought into Freesync in a big way.

More like AMD gave no incentive to give them the benefit of the doubt and removed ties.
With less ties, they can report earlier and are less limited in what can be posted.
For a site that posts the [H]ardcore truth, AMDs strategy backfired.
That must [H]urt.
 
Wasn't really thinking when I said one word describes half ass you all know what I meant.....Amd is getting ready for it's death spiral....
 
Seems the AMD shills/fanboys over on Anandtech are going nuts over this story and especially attacking Kyle: Polaris not so bright [Hardocp]From ATI to AMD back to ATI? A Journey in Futility - AnandTech Forums

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richaron
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Lul this muppet it so salty about being left out to dry.



Silverforce11
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Sounds like typical mud slinging for being skipped out on.


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raghu78
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this is a pathetic piece of trash written by a guy with big ego and zero brains.
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raghu78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arachnotronic
How do you know it's trash? Just because somebody doesn't like it doesn't mean the article is trash.

I am sure he will buy his own card and review it, just like he did with the Nano -- a product that got a GOLD award from the site.
It is trash because its based on hearsay. If Kyle were a professional journalist he would just wait for the product to launch and do a thorough review without prejudice and published it. If the product were bad he could call out in the review and if good he would acknowledge it. Then he would gain a lot of credibility. Instead he writes a useless piece of trash because he is pissed off that he did not get an invite to Macau. pretty sore loser.
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>>Hey isn't raghu78 a member here on Hard forums? I think I saw him post in this thread.

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flopper
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Kyle isnt professional.
simple as that.


f2bnp
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Lol. Kyle being butthurt once again. The depths to which that website has fallen are just huge.

The guy is mentally unstable, I still crack up everytime I remember that article he published about Nano last year. Anybody else remember the forum posts? I remember him saying that he was talking to AMD PR and they told him the price of the Nano and he just hang up the phone.

How does anyone expect this guy to act like a professional anymore?


Despoiler
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arachnotronic
Wow, you think any well known journalist is going to throw his/her credibility out the window for a free $699 video card?

The bashing of a well respected journalist like Kyle, or the insinuation that a couple hundred bucks is enough to "buy him off" is absolutely ridiculous.
He isn't well respected. Hasn't been for a number of years. He has a now several year history of writing completely unsubstantiated or over sensationalized claims. In some cases claims that his own data debunks in the very same article. He will call out AMD for something on a whim, but when Nvidia does the exact same thing there are no sensationalist articles to be found. Any time he is called out on his forums he either dodges or outright deletes the questioning post.

Also, his behavior is precisely over a couple of hundred bucks for a video card. Ever since AMD cut him off he has been in tantrum mode.
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AnandThenMan
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[H] bashed Nano upside backwards and sideways, everyone on their forum said yea what a piece of garbage terrible terrible. [H] then gives Nano a gold award. So why does the site have any credibility exactly?

And it just goes on and on over there, practically 6 pages dedicated to it LOL! And of course the mods there are perfectly content to let it happen. That forum is a joke.
 
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like i said, as a monopoly you control the market. You can relax more. They would still be releasing new GPUs of course, but they can easily keep selling older cards with rebrands etc. The effects of a monopoly are not new, not sure why you guys are so bent on denying it for nvidia's sake

Effects of a monopoly can also include/result in lower cost to the consumer from economies of scale. Again, knock it off with the fear mongering. Less choice is the only thing I will not argue. Yes, that will occur and is a negative. Undeniably, I feel. The positive trade off to that though is standardization then occurs, just to make that also clear (but choice is still better IMO). But insinuation that Nvidia will start forcing you to take out a loan to buy the next GPU is just fear mongering; especially when there's more to indicate that would be bad for them to do to themselves (even if the only game in town) than there is to indicate that is exactly what they'll do as you imply.
 
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