[Freesync] Benq XL2730Z -- 144 Hz, 1440p, 27 inches.

TroyX

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TN is for gaming. I would never buy an IPS panel for gaming. Why are you people so concerned with perfect color reproduction? Get a real IPS if that is what you want. Overdrive is a gimmick for IPS panels.

when that new Acer is faster than all TN monitors except the Asus Rog then why not have best of both worlds? :rolleyes:
 

bigbeard86

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when that new Acer is faster than all TN monitors except the Asus Rog then why not have best of both worlds? :rolleyes:

because it is not the best. It is physically impossible, from a physics standpoint, for the best ips to be faster than the best tn. no gamer cares about color reproduction as long as it is not horrific.
 

MistaSparkul

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TN is for gaming. I would never buy an IPS panel for gaming. Why are you people so concerned with perfect color reproduction? Get a real IPS if that is what you want. Overdrive is a gimmick.

It wasn't the color reproduction that was the selling factor for me. In fact the Swift's color is about on par with some IPS monitors. It was mainly the less grainy AG coating on the Acer and the IPS viewing angle advantage that got me on board. yeah yeah I know some people will just tell me to look straight ahead at my monitor to avoid the viewing angle problem but on a screen size this big it's still an issue when looking straight at it. I notice it on my 28 inch 4k TN.
 

Michaelius

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Sounds like Asus marketing on here. Can't believe mods on here allow such practices. I happen to own this monitor and this is a PURE lie. The OD on this monitor is called (Instant Mode) found in Game Settings and works perfectly fine with FreeSync Enabled. I even used special software that shows 144hz while gaming with FS enabled. Who's the moppet head now?

Provide me substantial proof/thorough testing on this matter aside from Asus based forums. Otherwise get the door out of here.

Instant mode is for input lag - overdrive is AMA settings on Benq but don't let lack of knowledge stop you

http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showpost.php?p=27936113&postcount=569

http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showpost.php?p=27938011&postcount=580

PS. Try googling overclockers.co.uk you might be suprised if you think they are asus forum.
 

igluk

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Yep, and I thought at first the other freesync monitor (Acer XG270HU) doesn't have this problem but it is the same with that, it also can't use freesync and overdrive at the same time.
Growing pains of a new technology...this will be fixed in drivers and all monitors to come (not only the ASUS) I'm sure.
But IF a firmware update can only be done via sending screen to manufacturer I would hold off on getting one of these monitors for now. (why don't they give consumers the option to flash new firmware themselves??)
 
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TroyX

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Yep, and I thought at first the other freesync monitor (Acer XG270HU) doesn't have this problem but it is the same with that, it also can't use freesync and overdrive at the same time.
Growing pains of a new technology...this will be fixed in drivers and all monitors to come (not only the ASUS) I'm sure.
But IF a firmware update can only be done via sending screen to manufacturer I would hold off on getting one of these monitors for now. (why don't they give consumers the option to flash new firmware themselves??)

when you say overdrive, you mean ULMB?

can someone clarify that for me.
 

igluk

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The overdrive impulse.
Most panels, no matter if IPS, TN or VA have native response times with some slower transitions that can cause increased ghosting.
So an overvoltage (overdrive impulse) is sent to the liquid crystal molecules, then they change their orientation quicker and this increases responsiveness and reduces ghosting.
Too much of the impulse however can cause inverse ghosting (overshoot, coronas, bright ghosting..) so the balance has to be found.
Monitors usually have an overdrive function, it has different names depending on manufacturer. On BenQ monitors it is called "AMA", Asus refers to it as "TraceFree" others may call it "Overdrive", "OD" or "Response Time"

Here is an example picture of what overdrive does to an object in motion at different settings. The monitor in this case is AOC U3477PQU, one of the faster 60hz IPS panels

At Off you can see slight ghosting trails behind the Ufos, the middle one is a pretty balanced setting with mild inverse ghosting and the rightmost shows how stronger inverse ghosting looks like.

edit:
Here is another one from a 144hz monitor (XB270HU), might show better how this looks like on a high refresh rate panel (the source is sweclockers.com)
The Ufo is sharper in these shots, because of the higher refresh rate - a high refresh rate reduces the so called "sample and hold motion blur" of LCD panels. The sample and hold motion blur and ghosting are seperate phenomena.
ULMB as you can see completely eliminates the sample and hold blur but there are some inverted phantom images ("cross-talk") remaining in the case of this monitor, apparently overdrive is set at maximum when ULMB is enabled on the XB270


edit 2 - BenQ pics, its not so bad with AMA Off


Review: http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/benq_xl2730z.htm
 
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TroyX

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Then we have to be careful here with this monitor because BenQ calls ULMB as "overdrive", which is stupid.

So lets get this straight here, we all know that Gsync monitors don't work with ULMB and FreeSync monitors don't work with ULMB either, is that right? or is there more about this BenQ monitor?

like Overdrive(ULMB) and AMA doesn't work with Freesync?
 

Michaelius

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Then we have to be careful here with this monitor because BenQ calls ULMB as "overdrive", which is stupid.

So lets get this straight here, we all know that Gsync monitors don't work with ULMB and FreeSync monitors don't work with ULMB either, is that right? or is there more about this BenQ monitor?

like Overdrive(ULMB) and AMA doesn't work with Freesync?

Yes strobing doesn't work with variable refresh because you would have screen that changes brightness all the time. So unless someone finds solution to this problem it's not happening.

But first batch of freesync displays also has bug which prevents overdrive from working when connected to amd card through DP - from that post of TFTCentral reviewer it will have blur similar to standard 60Hz panel.
Also Asus seems to be aware and promises to ship their freesync screen with this issue corrected (altrough it'll likely also need updated drivers from AMD).
 

Psych0

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Yes strobing doesn't work with variable refresh because you would have screen that changes brightness all the time. So unless someone finds solution to this problem it's not happening.

The guy who started this whole motion strobing buzz did find a solution to this problem but I haven't read anything to indicate anyone is working on implementing it.

The article, "Strobing on Variable Refresh Rate Displays" here:

http://www.blurbusters.com/faq/creating-strobe-backlight/#variablerefresh
 

Elderblaze

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Looks like the Asus will have a nearly useless 35-90 Freesync range. A pity. Also no strobing at all. At least with the BenQ you can turn off freesync and enable Strobe + AMA. BenQ is working on a fix for AMA, will likely require a monitor ship back tho.
 

Michaelius

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Looks like the Asus will have a nearly useless 35-90 Freesync range. A pity. Also no strobing at all. At least with the BenQ you can turn off freesync and enable Strobe + AMA. BenQ is working on a fix for AMA, will likely require a monitor ship back tho.

I just saw that today - really insane.

Altrough there's no warranty that once benq makes fix it will work in whole range too.

IMHO it doesn't make Benq better it simply moves Asus into same "lol they want 500 pounds for it" tier.
 

NukeDukem

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35-90Hz VRR range on the Asus? Is this a late April fool's joke?

Unbelievable. And still no FreeSync Crossfire support.

Looks like I'm going with team Green this summer. AMD is all sizzle, no steak.:mad:
 

Elderblaze

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Then we have to be careful here with this monitor because BenQ calls ULMB as "overdrive", which is stupid.

So lets get this straight here, we all know that Gsync monitors don't work with ULMB and FreeSync monitors don't work with ULMB either, is that right? or is there more about this BenQ monitor?

like Overdrive(ULMB) and AMA doesn't work with Freesync?


OverDrive
Motion Blur Reduction
Freesync

3 different things. Overdrive is not the same as ULMB/Motion Blur Reduction.

You can run the BenQ @ 144 HZ with AMA (overdrive) and Motion Blur Reduction, which would result in a perfect sharp image in the UFO test, Similar to the Acer's ULMB mode in the above post by igluk. But you do lose Freesync in this mode. (NVidia's solution also loses GSYNC in their ULMB Mode)

If you are using a different port from displayport, or a non Freesync driver you can also run the monitor @ 144 /w Overdrive and No Motion blur reduction. So the options look like this:

144@ Freesync, no Strobe/ULMB/MotionBlurReduction, NO overdrive/ama/tracefree/turbo240
144@ Overdrive Only, no Strobe, No Freesync, no freesync drivers installed
144@ OverDrive + Motion Blur Reduction (strobe)
144@ No overdrive, No Motion Blur Reduction, No Freesync

Obviously the 2 best modes are going to be Strobing with Overdrive and Freesync. Freesync for modern heavy games, and Strobe/Overdrive for lighter titles (CS:GO, etc)

on benq monitor they are called
Freesync, AMA, and Motion Blur Reduction
 
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Falkentyne

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I'm going to copy and paste what I wrote on various forums because it seems that NO matter how many times I write it, either no one wants to bother to test it or no one cares. They just complain about 'xxx not working'.

Guys,
Have you tried entering the SERVICE MENU and forcing overdrive ON when freesync is enabled?

This could be done on the Old Lightboost monitors to change overdrive (tracefree) in Lightboost mode on the VG248QE and VG278H.


This is a screenshot from VG248QE's service menu. Notice that OD can not actually be 'disabled", rather it simply is set to a gain of "00" (same as disabling it).
Not a *SINGLE* Person who had the VG248QE even knew about this. People knew about the service menu, yes, but no one knew that Lightboost's overdrive (which is supposed to be locked out and unchangeable) could be changed in this manner (yes I tested it and yes it works. But there was no benefit from changing the default 0F (15 decimal, corresponds to "100" tracefree)to under 0C (12 decimal; corresponds to Tracefree=80). Changing from 0F to 0C in lightboost mode basically sort of (in a way) 'reversed' the quality of the top and bottom of the screen (ghosting wise), removing the inverse ghosting around the bottom of the screen. Anything lower just added more normal ghosting.

Service_menu_ASUS_VG248QE.png


Notice the "NA" on OD gain?
P.S Even Chief Blur Buster didn't know that this was possible at the time!

Now, look at the Benq XL2730Z service menu.

20150313_114709.jpg


You guys have some testing to do :)

And why hasn't anyone tested Vertical total tweaks with this monitor to reduce/eliminate the bottom strobe crosstalk in blur reduction mode (like the VT 1500 tweaks did with the older Z series; the 1440p panel would need a higher and different VT, and definitely pixel clock patchers for NV/AMD if under DVI).

BTW, Vertical total tweaks at 100 hz would FIX the strobe problem at 100 hz, if (and only if) this panel responds to VT tweaks the same way as the XL2720Z did. If it defaulted to the 60 hz backlight pulse widths, then it works.
Also, 60 hz strobing works also. you need to enable SINGLE STROBE in the other service menu first. There are TWO Service menus on the benq Z monitors!

(some explanation about Vertical total tweaks and 60hz backlight pulse widths here:
http://display-corner.epfl.ch/index.php/BenQ_XL2411Z )

Service menu #1 (strobe settings, internet café, HPD settings): Power off, Hold menu for 5 seconds, power on+menu, release power then release menu.
Service menu #2:(factory menu/burn in/color calibrations / Overdrive/i2c address bank stuff: MOST of these options are NOT in XL2720Z):
power off, enter +menu (button 3 and 4 on XL2720Z, should be the same on 30Z) for 5 seconds, power on +menu+enter, release power, then release menu+enter.

*UNRELATED*:
Version 4 firmware is out for older Z series (XL2411Z/XL2420Z/XL2720Z), but Benq won't put it on their website. it's only available from dumped files on blur busters' forums.
It improves the default AMA settings for blur reduction on XL2720Z (27") massively and makes it identical to XL2730Z and XL2430T's overdrive, as well as adds a new AMA high (and AMA premium) extra setting, which is accessed by enabling MBR, going to AMA high, and either toggling off/premium and back to high, or pressing enter once on high IF it's already checked, then instead of pressing enter again to confirm, pressing "Back" (Menu). This toggle removes ALL inverse overshoot ghosting (it basically lowers the entire overdrive gain) but adds normal ghosting as a result 90% of this normal ghosting can be removed by setting contrast to 0 (best quality; best you will EVER see on any current LCD a the expense of contrast, EXCEEDS lightboost quality) or 10 (very good). Changing any strobe settings or brightness will revert to default AMA high (still massively improved over V2).

"hidden" AMA premium (same type of toggle) is the old V2 default AMA high (XL2720Z only).

Due to differences in the 24" and 27" panels, XL2411Z and XL2420Z's hidden AMA high setting equals the new XL2720Z's default V4 AMA high setting. Default AMA high on XL2411Z and XL2420Z V4 appears to be unchanged from V2. Toggling gives you the XL2720Z V4 quality.
 
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Falkentyne

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Someone said "single strobe" option is missing from the first service menu.
Can someone please confirm or deny?
The other blur reduction 2.0 monitor (the 2430T) had it.
If it's gone, this is a no purchase for me.

40qXABV.gif
 
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