Forza Horizon 5 (Mexico)

polonyc2 said:
again what new gameplay concepts?...it's a racing game, there's only so much you can do with it
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*hard* disagree... this line of thinking is common place with the genre and imho is a big part of why it's remained somewhat niche. just because a game involves driving and driving competition (racing, drifting, rally, whatever) doesn't mean that's the box a driving game has to be put in. i could write a long essay on concepts i've come up with but suffice to say the genre could be moved forward with realistically achievable ideas.
 
Colonel Sanders said:
*hard* disagree... this line of thinking is common place with the genre and imho is a big part of why it's remained somewhat niche. just because a game involves driving and driving competition (racing, drifting, rally, whatever) doesn't mean that's the box a driving game has to be put in. i could write a long essay on concepts i've come up with but suffice to say the genre could be moved forward with realistically achievable ideas.
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Have to agree. The original GRID was considered innovative in the genre for the time and certainly influenced racers to come. Some kind of rewind mechanic is now common, career structure often looks similar, etc.
 
Colonel Sanders said:
*hard* disagree... this line of thinking is common place with the genre and imho is a big part of why it's remained somewhat niche. just because a game involves driving and driving competition (racing, drifting, rally, whatever) doesn't mean that's the box a driving game has to be put in. i could write a long essay on concepts i've come up with but suffice to say the genre could be moved forward with realistically achievable ideas.
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yet you can't name any of these new concepts you want to see...
 
polonyc2 said:
yet you can't name any of these new concepts you want to see...
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*facepalm* it's not worth the time to write it all out here, what are you going to do, incorporate them into a new racing franchise personally? lol.

racing games are in my blood and have been since i was little. trust me, this is something i think about a lot.
 
Colonel Sanders said:
*facepalm* it's not worth the time to write it all out here, what are you going to do, incorporate them into a new racing franchise personally? lol.

racing games are in my blood and have been since i was little. trust me, this is something i think about a lot.
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do you want to see the cars turn into Transformers where they fight each other mid-race?
 
Nimisys said:
I'd be happy if they actually started to model the individual suspension or engines for each car.
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Yeah, but that would require too much actual effort. Like, for example, having the correct sounds for the correct engines.

They just want to sell a $100 Ultimate Edition with minimal effort.
 
Colonel Sanders said:
*hard* disagree... this line of thinking is common place with the genre and imho is a big part of why it's remained somewhat niche. just because a game involves driving and driving competition (racing, drifting, rally, whatever) doesn't mean that's the box a driving game has to be put in. i could write a long essay on concepts i've come up with but suffice to say the genre could be moved forward with realistically achievable ideas.
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And if you look at Forza Horizon in the past, they have done Hot Wheels stuff, LEGO stuff...it could *literally be anything* and still make "sense" for the franchise.
 
Unlike many, I play Horizon not for racing, which I could care less about. I literally use the series as a leisure drive simulation to enjoy the scenaries. This iteration ups the graphic ante. And I love it for how I play the series.
 
UltraTaco said:
Mate, time we got.
Please start typing. Were all eyes nd ears, mate! Speaking of time oil, I must start deleting posts. Reaching 500 soon. Am afraid.
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don't you want to become a Gawd?

Gawd - 512
[H]ard|Gawd - 1024
2[H]4U - 2048
Supreme [H]ardness - 4096
[H]F Junkie - 8192
Fully [H] - 16384
Extremely [H] - 32768
Cat Can't Scratch It - 65536
Seek Medical After 4 Hours - 131072
 
For me, Horizon 4 already looked so good that it's tough for me to get excited about improved graphics. I mean sure, they are nominally better, but let's see some new game modes without all the battle royal or MP-only crap. I really hope they either get rid of or heavily dis-incentivize Playground Games...fucking hate that one.

Better wheel support and feedback would also be greatly appreciated. I actually did buy a wheel for FH4 and unfortunately it feels way better just playing it on a controller.
 
The whole game isn't going to be in Spanish right? That would suck.
 
UltraTaco said:
Taco think it needs hot pursuit mode! Where you smuggle illegal immigrants across border nd border patrol is chasing you!

Or have dark underground mode where you work for drug cartels!
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Can just call it "fugitive mode" or something like that. They already kind of experimented with that kind of gameplay in FH4 with its "battle royale" mode, they just need to make it about the chase and reaching checkpoints instead of just everybody hitting each other a set amount of times.
 
Not impressive AT ALL... numerous other racing/driving games have far surpassed this by now. RaceRoom, iRacing, Assetto Corsa (and ACC), Dirt Rally, etc... these are really pretty bad :/
 
I've been wanting to get into these type of games and purchase the wheel and all that jazz for awhile now, but I can never get myself to do it.
 
Colonel Sanders said:
Not impressive AT ALL... numerous other racing/driving games have far surpassed this by now. RaceRoom, iRacing, Assetto Corsa (and ACC), Dirt Rally, etc... these are really pretty bad :/
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Sounds better than the prior Forza games, at least. It still lacks that visceral feeling that newer games capture, and they still overdo the pops on every car. Not all cars are going to behave that way, but they do it on every car.
 
Armenius said:
Sounds better than the prior Forza games, at least. It still lacks that visceral feeling that newer games capture, and they still overdo the pops on every car. Not all cars are going to behave that way, but they do it on every car.
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I'll agree it sounds better than old Forza games, but I'm not hearing distinctly different notes for each motor, and some like the Miura, the huracan, the 355 make me wonder if they even used an actual car. The Sratos, the ZL1 and the BRZ sound in the ballpark at least.

The popping affect is both over played out and in the case of the carb'd cars, completely wrong .

They need to bring someone in that actually knows about about cars, or at least knows they don't know them as well as they are trying to present
 
Business6 said:
Audio has been an issue for a while now. You can very clearly hear the digital synthesizer they use and on some cars it's fucking awful
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it just irritates me to no end that this guy at Playground Games probably makes big bucks and acts like he's at the top of his game but you listen to a game like Grid Autosport from 8 years ago or whatever and it clearly sounds so much better.. this guy will probably be working at PG for years to come and his shitty work will prevent the series from having good sound for who knows how long
 
Colonel Sanders said:
it just irritates me to no end that this guy at Playground Games probably makes big bucks and acts like he's at the top of his game but you listen to a game like Grid Autosport from 8 years ago or whatever and it clearly sounds so much better.. this guy will probably be working at PG for years to come and his shitty work will prevent the series from having good sound for who knows how long
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If it's so easy, why don't you make a mod fixing the sounds?
 
GoldenTiger said:
Well, you said one guy alone was doing it, and that his work sucks. That implies you could do better
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I might not be able to do the programming the link the vehicle specific sound file to the vehicle in the game engine, but I sure as hell could coordinate getting actual exhaust sounds better than this guy has. For fuck's sake, the Huracan sound file sounds like it came from a Camaro V8 and the 355 from a sport bike.
 
GoldenTiger said:
Well, you said one guy alone was doing it, and that his work sucks. That implies you could do better as one whiny fan.
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i'm whining about it for sure, but i'm not saying i could do better.

see, when it comes to making car sounds for a driving game, there are two components that are equally important. if you can't do one well, then it doesn't matter how well you can do the other, the final result will end up sucking.

the first part is recording the sounds. this requires good equipment (though you can get surprisingly good results with nothing more than a basic Zoom audio recorder) and knowledge of how to make the car/vehicle make the sounds you need to record that can be used in the game. the biggest hurdle in this process is having access to the car/vehicle as well as permission to drive it or put it on a dyno (aka rolling road) and not just drive it but to record the full rpm range including up to the rev limit. that alone makes getting audio samples a big task, well at least for rare and expensive car.

the second part is taking those audio samples you've recorded and mixing them in a way that both recreates the real thing as accurate as possible and also sounds "pleasing" to the ear in-game (i.e. a nice full-sounding mix without too much treble, bass, looping pops, etc) and this part is where audio engineers like this PG guy tend to fuck it up. you can tell the samples he's getting are good and should make for some amazing sounds in-game, but he keeps mixing them terribly bad. way too little mid range, too much treble, RPMs not matching the simulation (i.e. car sounds like it's at 4000 rpm when the game is simulating 6000rpm) and so on. this is where real artistry and talent comes into play.

there was a mod for a GTR 2 years ago called Power and Glory that was a really good example of how you can take a severely limited group of samples (in this case, it was limited to things like Youtube videos, absolutely NO access to the real cars) and with real artistry in mixing, turn those into really, really good sound in the actual game.

and i'm not saying the PG audio engineer is uniquely bad. this happens in a lot of driving games actually. another really good example of good samples and bad mixing is the audio engineer who works at SCS Software doing the engine audio for the American Truck Simulator and Euro Truck Simulator 2 games. he goes to great lengths to get amazing samples and then completely fumbles the ball when it comes to mixing them into the game. at least the PG guy is (mostly) capable of matching RPM samples one to another, the SCS Software guy can't even do that.

btw, i actually do know a good deal about this topic as i have both extensive knowledge of car audio recording as well as mixing and i have made a popular and well-liked sound mod for a popular (but now pretty old) racing sim.

edit: i should add that there is really another layer to racing/driving game audio design as of the last few years with advanced audio engines like FMOD and WWise and that is fine tuning of things like atmospheric occlusion and distance attenuation on TOP of the car audio mixing. ACC does this really well, better than anyone else has so far, to the point that replays sound ALMOST indistingushable from a real TV broadcast, which is actually a pretty shocking accomplishment.

edit2: come to think of it, IIRC the guy who created the sounds for the Power and Glory mod went on to do the audio for RaceRoom (which also has great sound as i mentioned earlier.)
 
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lastly i just want to add this. to me, the best way to judge car audio in a game is to ask yourself, "is this satisfying to listen to in the same way that the real thing is?" or in other words, is it fun to drive the car in the game just listening to the engine, appreciating its uniqueness, etc? very few games leave me with a "yes" answer to that question. and even in the games that do, it's usually a yes on some cars and a no on others.

see, in real life, sometimes something as basic as the 4 banger in a Fiesta ST can be pleasurable to drive because it's pleasurable to listen to. it's satisfying and makes rowing through the gears, whether at wide open throttle or just cruising around, an enjoyable experience. if that doesn't translate to the game at all, than the spirit of the audio wasn't captured.

take for example this MkIV Supra video:




it sounds so good. i could drive that car endlessly and never tire of it, just from the beautiful exhaust notes alone. yet listening to the MkIV Supra in the Horizon 5 video above, i get NONE of that satisfaction or enjoyment. you can tell the samples are from a real MkIV, and respect for the work that went into getting those samples, but the end result fails to capture the beauty of the real thing even a little bit.
 
Considering they did all mixing on the fly in the game engine did it and they used to mix different engines together to give standard selections like V8, I6, V16, I4, etc. on most cars. There are signature-esque cars that they didnt do this on. This was in both FH and FM. They are completely redoing this from the ground up and doing it differently and actually re-sampling the cars to do so. Is it perfect? No. Is at as good as some other games? No. Is it better then any previous forza title? Yes by alot.

You also have to realize that PG is a dev who relies on another dev. Its very much like Infinity Ward and Treyarch. IW makes the game engine and the game, then Treyarch gets the core engine and builds upon that. In this case IW = Turn10 and Treyarch is Playground Games. They also put out a semi polished game and then once its out they literally just fix bugs and make the game look better and add more cars/content. Ive watched both FH3 and FH4s visuals get way better over the games life.

This is an always online open world multiplayer racing game. Its one of just a few games in its category. So comparing it to all of the closed world racing sims is king of an apples to oranges comparison. While PG doesnt have to code the engine itself there is ALOT more to do in story writing, etc for this game that doesnt exist in closed world sims that takes just as much time. Ive had my hands very deep in the FH3 game engine and its database that it uses for everything in the game. Its very intensive work. We made addons that made the game better or more closer to what it should have been including altering car sounds.

Could they do better? Yeah sure. But i also could pick out car sound flaws in just about every other racing game to. No game is perfect.
 
German Muscle said:
Considering they did all mixing on the fly in the game engine did it and they used to mix different engines together to give standard selections like V8, I6, V16, I4, etc. on most cars. There are signature-esque cars that they didnt do this on. This was in both FH and FM. They are completely redoing this from the ground up and doing it differently and actually re-sampling the cars to do so. Is it perfect? No. Is at as good as some other games? No. Is it better then any previous forza title? Yes by alot.

You also have to realize that PG is a dev who relies on another dev. Its very much like Infinity Ward and Treyarch. IW makes the game engine and the game, then Treyarch gets the core engine and builds upon that. In this case IW = Turn10 and Treyarch is Playground Games. They also put out a semi polished game and then once its out they literally just fix bugs and make the game look better and add more cars/content. Ive watched both FH3 and FH4s visuals get way better over the games life.

This is an always online open world multiplayer racing game. Its one of just a few games in its category. So comparing it to all of the closed world racing sims is king of an apples to oranges comparison. While PG doesnt have to code the engine itself there is ALOT more to do in story writing, etc for this game that doesnt exist in closed world sims that takes just as much time. Ive had my hands very deep in the FH3 game engine and its database that it uses for everything in the game. Its very intensive work. We made addons that made the game better or more closer to what it should have been including altering car sounds.

Could they do better? Yeah sure. But i also could pick out car sound flaws in just about every other racing game to. No game is perfect.
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you're apologizing for sub par work when you don't need to.

effort that goes into sound should not matter whether it's a closed circuit racing simulation or an open world driving game. why should it?
 
I'm not sure if this is part of the same video that German Muscle posted earlier...if it is I'll remove it...

Forza Horizon 5 will have ray traced audio

ray traced audio sounds like a real game changer: It means vehicle sounds will dynamically change based on the surrounding environment...Traffic sounds will change depending on whether you're in, say, a town, an underpass or on a plain...There's also a thing called granular hybrid looping...It appeared in Forza Horizon 4 for only 15% of the vehicles, but it'll apply to all vehicles in FH5...This tech draws from "thousands of little audio files" to react precisely to how the player is driving, and this is achieved at 90 fps...

 
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