Forum Warning

CommanderFrank

Cat Can't Scratch It
Joined
May 9, 2000
Messages
75,412
Now that I have your attention.....responding to numerous complaints over the past few months, the Moderators of this forum and I will be spending much more time here correcting some bad behavior. The rules on flaming, namecalling, character assassination and downright rude behavior will be enforced to the maximum. From this point forward, anyone who is guilty of breaking the Forum Rules will be subject to immediate bannings....the length will be determined by the severity of the infraction, some may be permanent. If you value your membership here, you should take some time and refresh your memory on the rules. If you think something you post will get you an infraction, chances are that it will....think before you post.

Comments are welcomed, but be warned that crapping on this warning is not a very good career move. ;)
 

djnes

Fully [H]
Joined
Mar 24, 2000
Messages
19,560
I'd love to see a cleanup, of sorts. I've had quite a few discussions move to PM or through IM because the original thread was derailed.

I'd love to see people focusing on giving the best answers and help to those answering the questions, and leaving their personal desires to argue with anyone and everyone against logic for the real world. These boards used to be all about good-natured discussions, debates, and providing help to those who need it. If this is the method for restoring the boards back to that environment, I'm all for it.

I'm also all for being challenged on any subject. That can spark a great debate, and can lead to a better understanding on a concept. I still remembered the fallout from the Great RAID0 Debate. I argued for weeks that RAID0 was awesome. Finally, a bunch of people put together some testing grounds, and lo and behold, I was sitting on the wrong side. Some people need to get over a fear of being wrong. That's what this whole FUD stuff is about. It's okay to be wrong...life goes on. Anytime I'm wrong, and shown the right answer, it's something more I've learned. Being wrong is okay. Just ask my wife. :D
 

markt435

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Aug 9, 2004
Messages
7,592
YAY

If you value your life, you should take some time and refresh your memory on the rules. If you think something you post will get you an infraction, chances are that it will....think before you post.

fixed btw ;)
 

digital_exhaust

[H]ard|DCer of the Month - May 2008
Joined
Aug 14, 2006
Messages
6,903
I think we all just need to cool off a little bit, things have been getting a little heated around here lately. Hopefully we can keep things, at the least, on a civil level. I'm all for a good discussion, but it has gotten just a bit out of hand. I have been as much a part of it as anyone, so don't think I'm saying that in an attempt to blame everyone else for it, because I'm not...

I have learned so much since I started posting here... it's amazing, actually. I hope it can stay that way.... there are so many really, really smart people here.


Oh... and what happened to the rest of the stickies?
 

CommanderFrank

Cat Can't Scratch It
Joined
May 9, 2000
Messages
75,412
odoe, Bob and I thought it wouild only be fair to let you all know that the tolerance level is way down....almost to zero. We will be issuing warnings for a few days before taking drastic actions, so practice up on being nice. Remember to stick to discussing the merits of the thread topics and not the personality or views of other posters. When you get personal, we will go after you. This will work with the help of you all. When you see inappropriate posts, report it. One of us will be on it shortly. :cool:
 

zacdl

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Feb 12, 2007
Messages
2,012
Sweetness!

I won't claim 100% purity here, but I think it's a good thing you mods are cracking down on everyone.

Everyone under a tighter reign would be much better. It will at least encourage more on-topic discussions as well as discourage threadcraps.

As djnes, I like a discussion just as much as the next guy, and I've been wrong before. It's perfectly fine. Show me where I was wrong, rather than resulting to personal insults and flaming sort of thing.

A Q for Major- does this also include threadcraps and absurd claims as well? I think that (at least IMO) has been the cause of 90% of the problems going on in here. Cracking down on it might kill the seed before it can ever grow into a tree.

I'm not saying stuff like "Windows Vista driver support stinks" really (EX if backed up with a good argument or story), I'm talking about claims like "Windows Vista sucks. It's going to die. Switch to Linux" types of claims...
 

GJSNeptune

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Mar 31, 2004
Messages
12,372
At first I totally thought the forum was about to explode and Domo wanted us to evacuate. Or that there was huge nasty virus crawling around the boards.

This is a much better reality.
 

osalcido

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Nov 10, 2005
Messages
1,481
Well I,ve just been ignoring some of the repeat offenders, but glad to see theyll finally have to answer for their actions
 

calebb

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Mar 26, 2000
Messages
8,715
A Q for Major- does this also include threadcraps and absurd claims as well? I think that (at least IMO) has been the cause of 90% of the problems going on in here. Cracking down on it might kill the seed before it can ever grow into a tree.

Absurd claims are not absurd until you reveal them as absurd... so just continue to point out what you know from experience / research and address the claim, not the person :)
 

eeyrjmr

[H]ardness Supreme
Joined
Apr 23, 2002
Messages
4,363
^^ exactly
Someone might make an absurd claim but they may believe it (ie it is fact to them). Why punish them, enlighten
 

CommanderFrank

Cat Can't Scratch It
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Messages
75,412
If you feel someone is deliberately trolling the forum with mis-information and outrageous claims.....report the thread. If you do not feed the trolls, the thread dies and goes away. It's the responses that fuel the fire.
 

djnes

Fully [H]
Joined
Mar 24, 2000
Messages
19,560
^^ exactly
Someone might make an absurd claim but they may believe it (ie it is fact to them). Why punish them, enlighten
If only it were that easy. When you take the polite road and point out an absurd claim, even with proof, you are often rewarded with flames and personal attacks. That's why I wrote my comments about about people so afraid to be wrong.
 

XOR != OR

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Jun 17, 2003
Messages
11,549
If only it were that easy. When you take the polite road and point out an absurd claim, even with proof, you are often rewarded with flames and personal attacks. That's why I wrote my comments about about people so afraid to be wrong.
As well as that, there are many issues which are polarizing the masses ( vista, A/V, ect.. ). Polarizing issues tend to bring out the nutters, sadly.

I hope this brings back the more helpful forum of yesteryear.
 
Joined
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Messages
975
sorry off topic, but really they way this forum section has been going, I would definitely lol if this thread got closed by a mod, it would be sad, and I guess kinda ironic..... but I would giggle and be like thats the good old operating systems section. But really back on topic I hope this brings about positive change..
 

CommanderFrank

Cat Can't Scratch It
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May 9, 2000
Messages
75,412
I put a warning in the first post....this thread will stay active, however members who wish to derail this thread will not.
 

bbz_Ghost

2[H]4U
Joined
Aug 4, 2006
Messages
3,548
I knew this was coming, so for the past few weeks I didn't even bother replying to most threads. Sure, people still need help, and I have the knowledge to do it, answer most any question about any Windows issue anyone could come up with, but the sheer level of stupidity (my opinion and I'm stickin' to it) and trolling activity has reached epic proportions. I made the decision recently to not feed the trolls as evidenced by the tagline in my sig, but even that doesn't help in the long run.

One would think this would be a better place since it's considered by many to be the spot to come to anymore. Ars turned into "we are holier than thou" long ago; Anand's forum is kiddie idi0t central (my opinions again); Tom's Hardware... ugh, was never someplace to even troll if one had any brains at all.

So I'm glad to see the "hammer has been dropped," more or less. I myself simply choose to not participate that much anymore. I see that Linux vs Windows thing and I honestly have not even loaded it one time since it was created; I simply won't get into that shit anymore ever again.

My philosophy always has been and always shall be:

"To each his own..."

Maybe I should amend "... run whatever fuckin' OS you damned well please but don't preach it like gospel to the rest of us..."

I never thought of my postings as "preaching" Vista or XP or any Windows-based OS over any of the other choices available, and I've run them all and simply find that Windows is the best choice for me because I'm so familiar with it. I could get into long diatribes about OSX, Linux variants, BSD forks, UNIX, COBOL, FORTRAN, BASIC, etc etc going all the way back to the early 1970s or even earlier, but the past is just that: it's the past.

I hope things improve around here but even if that happens, I'm just an observer for the most part from now on with a little dabbling where I think I can help. To all those that offered kind words on my "MegaPosts" that have seemed to help so many, thank you.

'Nuff typed.
 

Catweazle

2[H]4U
Joined
Jan 20, 2004
Messages
2,791
I've argued that part of the problem here is the fact that, whilst Linux etc has a specific forum section there isn't a section which is specifically designated as a Windows section, and thus Windows related discussion must occur within a more general structural 'free-for'all'.

Forum admin has responded to my argument by stating that the 'Operating Systems' section IS the Windows section!

If that is the case then there is a group of people here who need to be mindful of that. People who don't favour Linux as their primary OS of choice don't go running into the Linux section thread-crapping and engaging in a crusade to discredit and belittle the Linux platform, and people who aren't really interested in the Windows platform serve little purpose by coming into this section thread-crapping and seeking to discredit and belittle the Windows platform.

Sure, there is point and purpose to threads which explicitly compare and examine different OS platforms, but such comment should be restricted to those threads rather than injected into every thread ever created in the section. Sure, it's undesirable to see people attacked as being 'FUD mongers', 'Trolls' and the like. But it shouldn't be forgotten that those unsavoury comments have most often followed exhibited behaviour. They haven't randomly appeared out of the blue. If peoiple want to express strongly held views about the faults and inadeuqacies of Windows, the failings and intentions (dishonourable or otherwise) of Microsoft, or the technologies which the Windows platform embraces then that's fine. But such comment should be restricted to relevent threads, and not trotted out in response to every expression of woe about a Windows install or every comment which is in some way positive toward the Windows platform.


And same thing goes for the people actually seeking to make positive contribution to discussion about and support of the windows platform. Don't go 'attacking' the main proponents of the anti-MS, anti-Windows stance every time you see them post! Attack the ideas and arguments, not the people! Fair dinkum, I cringe quite often when some specific people quote my posts or part of my posts! The quotes are sometimes presented in such a way as to suggest some sort of canmaraderie and group-inclusiveness, and to be quite honest the thought of being categorised as part of a 'group' which includes some of you is abhorrent to me!

I can probably take (and am happy to accept) responsibility for sparking the resurgence of "Troll" comments of late. I have called a few people (quite few actually) here out as a result of their comments, and used that term in doing so. If I make apology for doing so it is only in the context of having made the comment as a public utterance rather than as a private message of complaint to forum administration or the poster concerned. I certainly don't make apology for identifying certain posting behaviour for what it actually was, and objecting to that behaviour!

But it has disappointed me to see what I'd consider to be excessive 'copycat' behaviour follow my initial utterances. I thought long and hard before deciding that "enough is enough" and that some people needed to be called out for what was occurring. I'd never have taken a decision to casually use such terms, and trot them out in response to every appearance of any particular member, yet that is what some of you have been doing.



Then there's the matter of 'language used'. It's perfectly true that some people have been making utterances which are offensive to and insulting of other people. It's also perfectly true that some people have been taking offence where no offence really exists.

That's a rather simple thing to avoid, and we don't need to designate specific words as 'taboo' to avoid it.

If I say, for example "That's an idiotic thing to do!" amidst a comment made in response to a problem or proposed action then I am not referring to an action and not to a person. If instead I say "You're an idiot!" then I am attacking the person and not the action. Whoever had that second comment directed at them has cause for complaint. the person who had the first of those comments directed at him doesn't have such cause, and if offense is taken then it is that person being overly 'precious' and seeing offense where none exists. That's a rather extreme example used there to illustrate a point, but the principle exists no matter what specific word is used in a post. The context in which it is uttered determines whether or not the comment is a personal attack, not the mere presence of a word.

If somebody comes into a thread and then goes ballistic because a specific word has been used, taking personal offence despite the fact that the comment didn't actually attack the person, then it isn't the bloke who made the intial utterance who has sent things astray!


Then there's the so-called 'protection of people's right to air their opinion'. That'n has bee misused to the max here of late!

It's technical forum which has supposedly competent contributors, for goodness sake. When somebody pops in making a "Vista/Ubuntu/whatever sucks dog's balls and I know because it crashed on me/wouldn't run my sooper-dooper-soundcard/whatever" type thread they've already aired their opinion. The thread didn't get deleted. And if others, in the interest of accuracy and in consideration for others reading, respond with comments to the effect of "No, that's not actually correct. It works for most people and the likelihood is that the problem is caused byomething specific to your system so let's find out what's really wrong!" then they should be able to do so without being attacked for taking the approach. All of this can be avoided if people adopt three simple principles for their comments. Honesty. Integrity. Accuracy. Those should be paramount, and if they aren't allowed to be so on a technical forum then the forum suffers by becoming mediocre.

Objecting to such comments isn't an exercise in "feeding the trolls". Those comments aren't generally made because the person making them is intentionally trolling. They are made because there is a refusal to accept responsibility for one's action and a readiness to point the finger of blame at whatever target seems convenient. And they deserve to be called for what they are, in the interests of everybody. If we didn't object to them then we'd end with with index pages full of such silliness, and the decent content difficult to find amongst it. Anybody who has been involved with user support should well know that most 'problems' are actually the result of either hardware/software incompatibilities or of some incorrect procedure which has been undertaken on the machine in question.



I'll repeat them:

  • Honesty
  • Integrity
  • Accuracy
Let those underpin your contributions, and ensure that you aren't careless with your comments by allowing them to be directed at the person rather than at the action or opinion, and it shouldn't really matter WHAT specific words are in your posts.



I'm quite happy with my performance on thise counts. Honesty, integrity and accuracy are concepts I use to direct all of my activity, not just my tech forum contributions. And I'll quite possibly become a casualty of this 'clean-up campaign'.

Why? Because I'm also a colourful and sometimes controversial character. Underneath it all I'm basically an 'ocker Aussie' working class bloke who calls a spade a spade, isn't backward at coming forward, and who often uses colourful idiom in making comments. There is always going to be some people who object, and bugger me dead but I'm not about to, at this late stage of life, change who I am just to appease the overly 'precious' amongst you. My tech info. is good and accurate, and despite the colourful way in which I sometimes couch comments the feedback I receive from people I've given advice or assistance to is predominately quite good.

Of late I've had quite a bit of quite outrageous comment directed at me which is of a personal natuture. Accusations that I am a 'M$-lover' or an abusive person who insults others, or a member of some supposed 'gang' of people who seeks to subvert all opinion other than my own. Outrageous accusations which obviously come from people who aren't actually reading and digesting the comments I've made. Sobeit. And if I end up dumped from this forum because the noise created by those people has contributed toward an intolerance for me here then sobethat too! I'm happy enough that my intentions are always honourable, my integrity remains unquestionable, and my accuracy in providing information and assistance remains consistent.


Simple enough to ensure that the forum remians friction-free as far as is possible, and my suggestions to others here would be:

  • Remember that administration has indicated that this forum section is considered to be the 'Windows section'. Respect it as such, and don't try to inject your pet peeve into every topic where you can find a hook to hang it on. Keep your pet peeves to the topics where relevent discussion is warranted!
  • Don't accept mediocrity and responsibility-avoidance in the name of 'freedom of speech'. People definitely have right to air their views, but that doesn't extend to a right to have them aired unchallenged. Accuracy is far too important, and if somebody is presenting a problem in the foprm of the suggestion that the problem is some sort of inherently inevitable quality of an OS when in fact it isn't then it is important to say so. It's in the interest of everybody reading for that to occur.
  • Don't be careless with your phrasing, allowing yourself to make personal comments about the qualities of others. Doing that isn't always intentional, but it's always offensive!




In closing.

I suggested above that it was probably me who started off the slinging about of the word 'troll'. I don't recall seeing it much at all until I used the word recently anyway. There are 9 of my posts which contain the word. In only two of those is the word used in any directed sense. One of those two is a comment challenging the nature of another comment, rather than attributing a label to some specific person. The other is a comment where I've acknowledged the accusation that people were intentionally trolling a thread, and it was made in a non-specific manner. I never accused any individual of being "a troll". All other instances of the word to be found in my posts are contained in quotes of other people's posts, usually where I've disagreed with their accusation, or in discussion about what is or isn't 'trolling'.

Yet, despite this, after I used the word its use exploded on here, first with people throwing it about willy-nilly as directed comments, and then amidst accusations about a supposed 'gang' of people who label others with derogatory stereotypes!


hmmmmm???????
 

Catweazle

2[H]4U
Joined
Jan 20, 2004
Messages
2,791
It is NOT "very well written"! It is filled with typos, clumsy grammatical structure, and repetition.

I sometimes write for payment, and when I do so the work I produce gets revised to ensure that it is good product. When I write for free, as is the case in forum posts, my work doesn't get accorded that treatment. The point is, though, (and on-topic) I'd expect that people will read my contributions for what they are and what they say, and call me out only where they can convincingly demonstrate an innaccuracy, or indicate a passage where my language construction has been misleading.
 

bbz_Ghost

2[H]4U
Joined
Aug 4, 2006
Messages
3,548
Bleh... it was fine. But longest? Should I link to a MegaPost? HEHEHE Just kidding, Cat. Nicely done, and the kind of posting I considered doing but decided against it. I've been a grammar/spelling Nazi for nearly 3 decades now - been online since 1978 at a whopping almighty fast 50 baud no less - and I will always believe that people should use proper grammar and spelling online regardless of the situation.

I see people say things like "I do that shit all day in my real life and at work/etc, I don't give a flying fuck about grammar or spelling when I'm chatting or posting on forums" and I typically dismiss the comment as stupid and childish - but not in that particular case above. Why?

Considering this is a text-based communication medium and the only thing people can "get" from you as far as a read or bead or heads up feeling is how you present your thoughts and express your feelings with the words and the language you have at your disposal. I already know enough about you from reading your posts, a few PMs from you, and reading some content at your website to know you're not Joe Average, computer owner that doesn't give a flying fuck - you're just the opposite and I can appreciate and respect that absolutely.

Anything less than a person's best in any given moment is not only uncivilized, it's just downright stupid in my opinion.

I'll shut up now...
 

djnes

Fully [H]
Joined
Mar 24, 2000
Messages
19,560
Anything less than a person's best in any given moment is not only uncivilized, it's just downright stupid in my opinion.
It's also tough to take someone seriously, or even understanding what they are saying in a debate, when the other person is typing like a high school using a cell phone to send text messages. Like that annoyin commercial on TV with the little girl who argues with her mom over her cell phone bill in "textual" language.
 

CommanderFrank

Cat Can't Scratch It
Joined
May 9, 2000
Messages
75,412
The main forum of OS is for Windows since is far and away the most popular and most used. We broke of the Linux and free/alternative operating systems in it's own sub-forum. Mac OS is discussed in the Mac forum. If you see a post that needs to be moved to the proper forum, report the thread and it will be moved....simple, no?

If we all cooperate here, the problems will minimize and the isolated pockets of resistance to civility will be removed. :cool:

Forum admin has responded to my argument by stating that the 'Operating Systems' section IS the Windows section!
 

jimmyb

2[H]4U
Joined
May 24, 2006
Messages
3,165
I think it's also important to remember that when discussing subjective issues, it is quite reasonable that people will come to different conclusions, even after being presented with all the information.

My main concern is that there are some legitimate discussions that are getting locked merely because people aren't posting their point of view nonconfrontationally. I'm quite certain that it is possible to debate for pages and pages without getting locked, so long as it's kept civil.
 

calebb

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Mar 26, 2000
Messages
8,715
On fanatics and trolls...

6. You are anti-fanatic

Don't get me wrong -- no one likes a troll. But if you've made it your life's work to counter and antagonize fanatics, you're only adding to the problem. Anti-fanatics regularly accuse others of being fanatics in derogatory fashion. It's a vicious cycle. The name gets loosely thrown around yet tells more of the individual using the term than the person it's directed at. Calling someone a fanatic without proper cause is merely evidence of a weak mind trying to get noticed.


(lol - the other word is banned, so I replaced it with fanatic)
 

zacdl

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Feb 12, 2007
Messages
2,012
The main forum of OS is for Windows since is far and away the most popular and most used. We broke of the Linux and free/alternative operating systems in it's own sub-forum. Mac OS is discussed in the Mac forum. If you see a post that needs to be moved to the proper forum, report the thread and it will be moved....simple, no?

I think therin lies the problem.

Take the recent Linux vs. Windows thread. It deals with both Windows and Linux, so a move isn't really possible. I would think the majority of people here would agree it was headed to the can the minute it was created. It just took 8 pages to finally become bad enough to get there, but it happened.

The OP included this comment in his post: "So flame away."
I pointed this out when I reported it when it still had no replies.
If the OP is expecting it to turn nasty, shouldn't that raise a red flag? Correct me if I am wrong, but it almost falls under baiting.

I guess my whole thing is preventing problems before they happen. In this case, I think closing the thread would have prevented all that went on. You wouldn't have had to deal with the problems that eventually closed it. I think stopping some of the threads that are obvious problems would cut down on 95% of the stuff in here.

It would require the moderation to use more judgement than what, I feel, is more of just a "by the book" approach. If someone throws up a far-fetched, or unfounded idea, with nothing more than personal opinion, and no factual backup... it needs to be looked at.
If someone is presenting an argument of "Linux speed vs. Windows speed" (for example), factual data is provided, and opinions such as "Well, I just know that Linux is faster, I don't care what this data says. You are wrong." are not included, it would be a great thread to leave up.
 

odoe

[H]F Junkie
Joined
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Messages
9,798
Just because a thread may turn bad, doesn't mean I'm going to shut it down. If I shutdown every thread based on whether or not a few people might take it downhill, you wouldn't have any threads to post in. They're all judgement calls. I put faith into the fact that some good info can come out of otherwise controversial threads, which many in this forum can attest to as it has happened before. Even some sour threads can make a turn around and become a wealth of information. That particular WinLinux thread was great on info and discussion for a while. I gave it a chance, it faired well for a bit, but lost in the end. No biggy.
 

msny

2[H]4U
Joined
Sep 5, 2001
Messages
2,197
Rant on...

Agree with the admin. A lot of discussions get out of hand and disintegrates into arguments over sometimes very trivial issues. Also, I see a lot of threads get sidetracked over who has the "good,better,best" argument.

We need to remember that there are many people here just starting out being an enthusiast. I've been at it since the very early 80's. Having experience doesn't make me an expert, in fact it might make me an old timer unwilling to suggest a change to a better way. If we do and know the answer there is a way to approach people and get them to listen, being antagonistic never works. If they reject it please note that there not rejecting you, just your answer. This is an unforgiving medium, I can't look into someone's eyes and know for sure what the motivations are, but I can choose to put the best face on it.
If others want to get personal with attacks, that is a good cue that they don't want to listen anyways. Normally I just leave them in there own waste.

Not seeing the forest through the trees mentality can set in. We have a very nice resource here and I want... NO we all need to pick on each other for help to tap this resource.

Being polite and helpfull is a choice we can all make.

Rant off...
 

BIGJ

Gawd
Joined
Dec 19, 2006
Messages
858
Good deal, things have been getting kinda heated around here, luckily I have been only posting on the FS/T thread and keeping my hand out of the boiling pot of water. :D
 

Phoenix86

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Mar 28, 2002
Messages
6,653
Comments are welcomed, but be warned that crapping on this warning is not a very good career move. ;)

Step in the right direction.

Two things stopped me from posting here a while back, those auto-link thingies I'm not seeing and mountains of thread crapping.
 

Catweazle

2[H]4U
Joined
Jan 20, 2004
Messages
2,791
I think therin lies the problem.

Take the recent Linux vs. Windows thread. It deals with both Windows and Linux, so a move isn't really possible. I would think the majority of people here would agree it was headed to the can the minute it was created. It just took 8 pages to finally become bad enough to get there, but it happened.
Thoroughly and completely disagree. That particular thread lockage occurred whilst I was watching some TV yesterday evening (my time) and left me quite disappointed as I had a substantive post almost completed which I'd planned to post to the thread. eeyrjmr's comments in particular had raised matters which were getting the thread back on track, and I was planning to address his concerns particularly those about market research) in a manner which indicated that an accurate acknowledgement of market share provides a frame of reference from within which to gain better understanding of and insight to many of the other concerns and issues which had been raised in the discussion previously.

Positive stuff, in other words.

There is always a place for cross-platform discussion. The whole point of my earlier comments about having a Windows-specific section was to ensure that cross-platform issues and other matters of debate had a place of their own in which to have prominence. Debate is a healthy thing to see.


My main concern is that there are some legitimate discussions that are getting locked merely because people aren't posting their point of view nonconfrontationally. I'm quite certain that it is possible to debate for pages and pages without getting locked, so long as it's kept civil.
Quoted for emphasis.

Quite often threads need to go on for pages and pages, as the issues being discussed are complex ones which require quite a deal of consideration, and because people participating in those discussions aren't even on the same page early in the discussion. An appreciation of the stance and frame of reference of participants grows as the discussion progresses.




Leads me to another matter, though. This whole "Where are your links?????" business.

A polite "Got links?" is one thing. It's nice to have links to supportive argument, but it's not a mandatory requirement for everybody participating in a discussion/debate to write up their every comment as if it were an academic dissertation. And whilst people shouldn't blindly accept the claims of others at face value, they should also do their own homework if they want to challenge those claims.

But a belligerent and/or sustained attack on the credibility of somebody else's contribution, launched purely on the basis of "You didn't provide a link so your comment is meaningless" is another matter entirely. It is your own responsibility to do your own homework! People participating in discussions/debates should make effort to check and ensure the claims they are making are accurate ones.
 

CommanderFrank

Cat Can't Scratch It
Joined
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Messages
75,412
This is not a debate thread, it is your run of the mill warning thread. We are not looking for discussion, just positive actions in your future posting.
 
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