“Fortnite” Publisher Epic Is Suing Two Alleged Cheaters

Discussion in '[H]ard|OCP Front Page News' started by Megalith, Oct 12, 2017.

  1. Megalith

    Megalith 24-bit/48kHz Staff Member

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    Epic filed civil complaints against two alleged associates of Addicted Cheats, a website that provides aimbotting services to players. An "aimbot" gives an unfair advantage in competitive online shooters by automatically targeting opponents. The two defendants apparently used this service to kill Twitch streamers (a.k.a. "stream sniping") during matches in Fortnite's new PvP mode, Battle Royale. Epic Games claims they had to reverse-engineer and modify Fortnite's source code to do this, creating an unauthorized derivative work that's in violation of the Copyright Act. Thanks cageymaru.

    One defendant was banned from Fortnite nine times, according to the complaint, but he registered other accounts under different names to continue playing. When asked why he stream snipes other players, he allegedly said, "Because its [sic] fun to rage and see streamers cry about how loaded they are and then get them stomped anyways." In a statement to Kotaku, Epic Games says, "When cheaters use aimbots or other cheat technologies to gain an unfair advantage, they ruin games for people who are playing fairly. We take cheating seriously, and we’ll pursue all available options to make sure our games are fun, fair, and competitive for players."
     
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  2. captainyarr

    captainyarr n00bie

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    This story is such an amazing collection of things that shouldn't exist.
     
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  3. Meeho

    Meeho 2[H]4U

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    Well, he's not wrong on that :) Any links?
     
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  4. Gigus Fire

    Gigus Fire [H]ard|Gawd

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    I'm sure bad precedence will follow in the courts.
     
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  5. Exercate

    Exercate n00bie

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    Also said "Epic Games claims they had to reverse-engineer and modify Fortnite's source code to do this" Modify the SOURCE code??? Really!!!
     
  6. JosiahBradley

    JosiahBradley [H]ard|Gawd

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    The source code of UE4 is open source so highly likely it was an engine hack not the proprietary game code itself.
     
  7. RogueTadhg

    RogueTadhg Gawd

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    Sounds like a stretch...

    Why go after the individual player and not the creator of the hack with a C&D? Not that I know too much about this story or the angle that the lawyers are trying in court.

    I think the whole "Stream Sniping" is pretty shitty and poor sportsmanship but what can streamers realistically?
    Should they delay their "Live" video feed by a minute, 2, 5, more?
    Auto Kick/Ban (non-exempt) players from their live stream channels if they have a duplicate / in-game IP Address?
     
  8. Chunder

    Chunder Limp Gawd

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    I see people here think this lawsuit is an overreach, but sorry, as a long time PC gamer, the hacking epidemic has gotten noticeably worse and worse every year in every game. ALL anti-cheat systems can easily be by-passed, and as we seen with the CSGO competitive scene, even so called "pros" have been caught using cheats at LAN tournaments, which use to be considered "hack free environments". We even have apologist that defend these people, like those that claim "its just a script" that controls their otherwise terrible aim, and try to differentiate between a full fledged aimbot that auto-targets, vs one that adjust recoil (we use to call this recoil hacks back in the day)... Cheating is cheating, and they all, both makers and users, deserve to be punished with fines for breaking TOS of the products they abuse. I hate when judges try to make examples of people or hand out excessive punishments, but the gaming community needs a shake up that makes these kids afraid to hack. Big legal fines being handed out regularly would be a good deterrent.
     
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  9. SighTurtle

    SighTurtle Gawd

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    I hate cheaters. Regardless of the situation, I dont mind them sweating.

    Did you read the article? Aside from banning the players for using the hacks, they are going after the creators with the lawsuit.
     
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  10. RogueTadhg

    RogueTadhg Gawd

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    A lawsuit like this won't put a dent into the problem. All you could do is ban the player so many times that it becomes more of a chore than anything else. If the player streams, you could ban the player as soon as jumps into another game. But otherwise the only thing I could see is deliberately make the Live stream not "Live" in games like these. So no matter what game, if it's got any PvP element at all, you can deter stream sniping.

    As far as hacking goes that's a whole different issue. One that doesn't effect just Streamers but also players. The only recourse for this are kill cams, where you can see what the enemy sees.
     
  11. viper1152012

    viper1152012 Limp Gawd

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    Can't stand excessive cheating, makes me drop games
     
  12. bsbllclown

    bsbllclown n00bie

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    I'm not sure why people in this thread are bent out of shape about this. Personally i think its fricken fantastic. If you are playing a multiplayer game and you are using cheats/hacks such as aimbots, wallhacks, maphacks, etc etc. I think its really cool the devs are going after these a$$hats. Its cival court so its pretty much just money on the line if I understand it correctly. I would love to see Epic sue these people into financial ruin or at least bankruptcy and make an example of them. Maybe that would limit these types of people in the future.
     
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  13. Simmonz

    Simmonz 2[H]4U

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    This world is too sue happy. Cheating sucks but at the end of the day show me one online game without it.
     
  14. lcpiper

    lcpiper [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Maybe be, but I used to have great fun doing two things;

    Killing the cheaters until they rage quit, and being accused of cheating when I am not, and just changing everything up over and over to finally make it clear to the other person that one, I'm not cheating, and two, I am just better then they are.

    Calling an honest player a cheater is truly a compliment.

    But compliment or not, I'm hunting that ass.
     
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  15. freeloader1969

    freeloader1969 2[H]4U

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    About fucking time someone took these cheats to task! I wish someone would go after the cheaters on BF1. I played a game yesterday and we were only 4 minutes in and some asshole was already at 60 and 0. They can nail all the cheaters to a cross as far as I'm concerned.
     
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  16. EODetroit

    EODetroit [H]ard|Gawd

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    A hilarious as it is to stream-snipe e-"famous" streamers in shit games, I hope the two cheaters get taken for everything they're worth. Cheaters and those who enable cheating need to have a chilling effect moment in the courts. Also, they need to die in a fire.
     
  17. twonunpackmule

    twonunpackmule Gawd

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    Nintendo tried to state this with Game Genie. Nope.
     
  18. htpc_user

    htpc_user [H]ard|Gawd

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    I just don't understand cheating in online games. I don't see what anyone could get out of it. If you did it in a real sport then I could understand it. I'm not saying it would be OK but I could understand the point. Sitting at my desk playing a game where my skills are not really doing anything is a complete waste of time. I played the Battlefront 2 beta, and I'd get 2 kills max on any game I played in. But at least they were my own 2 kills, and I was trying different things and trying to make adjustments.
     
  19. Snowdensjacket

    Snowdensjacket n00bie

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    Cheaters ruin games. They make them not fun to play, causing people to quit playing them or never even start anymore, hence they cost game devs a lot of money. Good for them to try to recoup their losses from the asshats who are ruining their businesses.
     
  20. spinach_chin

    spinach_chin n00bie

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    Fortnite is nice in that respect, as you get to spectate the player that killed you. I was in a game in top 6,and I immediately witnessed the eventual winner shooting through haystack, and go on to kill the last 4 by auto-aiming and shooting through solid objects and hillsides.
     
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  21. DeathFromBelow

    DeathFromBelow [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Cheaters ruin games. If financial damages wont scare them maybe we need one of those hand chopper-offer machines they have in Iran...
     
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  22. oldmanbal

    oldmanbal Gawd

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    I wonder how they are going to determine the punative value for the case.

    Would it be equal to a standard licensing fee for the cost of the game engine (UE4)? Most likely.

    Would there be a way to determine a potential loss from the bad effect of the cheating? I doubt it.


    It is however comical that the actual game fortnight, turned out to be so much of a dud that they decided to just turn it into the current popular twitch leader PUBG. I'm not saying that they don't have the right to duplicate other companies hard work and direction, but we are looking at a reasonable case of hypocrisy. Using someone elses work to improve your own situation seems to be how EPIC runs its game division now. Paragon went from a fun, vertical, balanced 3d moba shooter, to a mess of a cookie cutter moba that took out all the skill and devolves into a 5v5 team deathmatch after 5 minutes. Aside from the cheating in the article, I feel like EPIC is really struggling to define their vision. Keeping games in an 'open beta' type of bullshit development purgatory is a way to pretend that you are creating something unique, while you slowly use stats to make a game that caters to the largest audience, despite your vision and integrity.

    Regarding the cheaters, yeah I hope they at least get something strong enough to deter future iterations, however I don't believe any sort of substantial settlement is inbound.
     
  23. mbelue

    mbelue n00bie

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    There are many kinds of open source. Epic may still be within their rights. Especially if they can convince a court the exploit was "malicious code."
    Likely the judge is older than your Grandfather that decides to rule on this.
    Hell my grandfather didn't believe solar energy is real, I have no greater expectation of most American judges.
    This could only end up poorly.
     
  24. umeng2002

    umeng2002 Limp Gawd

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    What a waste of the Court's time.
     
  25. danny_discus

    danny_discus Gawd

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  26. RogueTadhg

    RogueTadhg Gawd

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    Does the RIAA / MIAA stop pirating?

    MPIAA? Those movie and record labels that sue everyone and the dog's flea for money. I don't even know their names now.
     
  27. MRAB54

    MRAB54 Gawd

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    Just ban by key and fork out some money for a support team to wade through any false bans. Pretty simple if you are serious about stopping cheating. Dedicate some development resources to combat cheating, likely cheaper than lawyers and letting cheaters run havok on your game. Can't take shortcuts and hope for the best.
     
  28. [21CW]killerofall

    [21CW]killerofall [H]ard|Gawd

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    You aren't a good player until a server admin bans you for "cheating" but the real reason is that you are just too good. Myself and 2 other friends got banned from a Battlefield 2 server about 10 years ago because we were actually using teamwork to kill people. I also have played with people who I thought were cheating at first, but later found out that they really were just that good.
     
  29. Tak Ne

    Tak Ne [H]ard|Gawd

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    I'm not sure if ruining a person is justifiable over simply cheating in a game but I do agree that more should be done to stop people cheating.
    Whats funny though is that Epic's dev team had financial problems making Fortnite and turned to Tencent with a big bag of money and list of changes. Maybe a repayment is due :D
     
  30. DeathFromBelow

    DeathFromBelow [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Hard to say because free and paid streaming services have largely supplanted the old piracy market. It's still there obviously, but it's not like when I was in high school and every teacher was running limewire or whatever.

    Regardless, what does that have to do with cheating in games? If you steal music I like you don't effect me directly, you might even help popularize it. Cheating in a game that people paid for has no positive effects and directly harms the experience of other people. Its clearly a form of unwanted antisocial behavior and it needs to be punished.
     
  31. gamerk2

    gamerk2 Gawd

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    Simple solution: Ban the hackers PC MAC Address across all titles the company has.

    Oh right, that affects sales. Nevermind then.
     
  32. lilbabycat

    lilbabycat 2[H]4U

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    To everyone saying "ban by key": Fortnite's Battle Royale mode is free.

    The meat of their paid game is PvE grindy stuff (i'm neck deep into it right now, its fun but teeters on must-buy-loot-boxes-progress vs grind enough to be viable)
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2017
  33. Incontentia Buttocks

    Incontentia Buttocks n00bie

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    Cheaters should have their ballsack slit open letting their balls drop free then be made to sit on salt with a spritz of lemon juice.

    No, I'm not kidding.
     
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  34. B00nie

    B00nie [H]ardness Supreme

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    I agree. Hackers should get prosecuted every time someone can prove they did it. I haven't bought any new FPS games anymore because of the rampant cheating in every popular item - and I'm 100% sure I'm not alone. That means direct damages to the gaming companies - and damages to me because I can't play the games I want.
     
  35. B00nie

    B00nie [H]ardness Supreme

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    Those cases are extremely rare. In vast majority of cases being 'good' means you have a cheat running. Of course it's possible to gain unfair advantage 'legally' by using out of game communication and ghosting for example. Very unfair and not fun for the others but some folks need to win regardless of means I guess.
     
  36. Nukester

    Nukester Gawd

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    I'm going to sue you.
     
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  37. Verge

    Verge [H]ardness Supreme

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    #ps4
     
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  38. 0neTwo

    0neTwo Limp Gawd

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    Hearthstone :ROFLMAO:
     
  39. Gigus Fire

    Gigus Fire [H]ard|Gawd

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    It's just kinda mixed.
    On one hand, i should be able to run whatever i want to on my computer. If i want to run a special driver that allows for wall hacking by not rendering some walls, then that's up to me. You have zero right to legislate what i can do or can't do on my computer. I don't think running a cheat is illegal.
    What the company has a right to do is to deny service if cheating is found. They should refund and say the person isn't welcome, that's perfectly fine. Suing over a violation of terms of service is kinda odd. If the company isn't proactively protecting their own service from what they consider violations, then they're at fault, not the person who's cheating.

    Basically i feel as if they're utilizing the legal system to scare people into not cheating, which won't work since i'll assume that most cheaters are teenagers who don't quite think through the consequences of their actions. It's the same kind of strategy utilized by the RIAA to scare mp3 torrent users who get caught to stop sharing music. Even for cheat makers, it's a lucrative business, especially when the exploits they use is from a generic engine and has been available for a long time. You don't have to make anything new, just wrap it for the game and market it.
     
  40. Inu

    Inu [H]ard|Gawd

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    These payed for hacks have existed for a long time. People will continue to pay for them.
    If a hack company gets sued, another will pop up in it's place.

    I try to stick to single player games now if i can help it.