Ford Mustang Mach E Leak: Mustang goes Electric

odditory

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I want a Tesla 3 performance awd just for the power. I dont care about green. I know how much destruction to Earth was done to harvest and process that Lithium and Colbalt. I guess no more or less than petroleum. Thus buying a EV isn't green at all. Gotta burn more coal at the plant to charge the damn thing.
"Its just burning coal at the power plant so itz the same" is uninformed nonsense.
 

tangoseal

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"Its just burning coal at the power plant so itz the same" is uninformed nonsense.
Want my opinion as an actual Biologist? Co2 generation is green! We are releasing carbon that is essential to life. I'm gonna end there because your just gonna give me talking points. Evs are not green. They're just not dirty. But they do come in black, seafoam ,sports red, and metallic silver with leather trim.
 
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Armenius

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In insane mode a Tesla can hold with the fastest cars, problem is after one short run it has to cool off before it can do it again, while those gas powered vehicles do not. As the owner of a Hellcat Challenger and I also have driven a Tesla, I much prefer the Hellcat as I like hearing the engine. Plus you have to deal with the degradation of the battery packs on all electric vehicles and that can be quite expensive to deal with.

As for your second part I am not sure why you felt the need to post that, this isn't the Sierra club social hour.
In a straight line, and torque falls off meaning you're not hitting very high top speeds, especially with those eco-friendly low-friction tires. Cooling is getting better, but the heat soak you have to deal with in an ICE car is nothing compared to the combustible nature of li-ion when it gets a little hot. Tesla has lifetime battery replacement covered under warranty, I think, but you're looking at at least $4k to replace a battery pack (using a Leaf as an example). Engine sound is a big deal for some people. I can't tell you how many cars I've driven that are supposed to be exciting for me to only get disappointed when you can't hear the exhaust note even with the windows down.
To be fair, if Solid State batteries actually become a thing based off the lab tests being done with them gas powered vehicles are going away.

They are talking about 600 miles on the smallest batteries and up to 1500 mile trips on Tesla size batteries. If that’s even remotely possible it kills fuel injection vehicles across the board. Figure 2029 or so SSBs become mainstream which by then electric vehicles would have gotten to the point where the only thing preventing them from being entry level are SSBs.

*yes I got my information from Joe Scott .
You still have to deal with the charging times and grid demand. I, too, look forward to the future when we have legally mandated schedules of what can be done on your electric devices to keep the grid from being overwhelmed and disaster happening.
 

NightReaver

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Idk, I think everyone can agree that yeah, eventually combustion engines are going to disappear. The issue I have is people who make today's EVs out to be something they're not.
 

Lakados

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Well looks like Ford also hit the 2020 deadline for a higher end EV, probably going to see marginal sales in North America but they are going to advertise it heavily in Asia/China where it was likely designed for same for most of the EV's being launched/announced right now.
 

GoodBoy

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In insane mode a Tesla can hold with the fastest cars, problem is after one short run it has to cool off before it can do it again, while those gas powered vehicles do not....
While true for standard consumer EV's, I do not believe that was the case for the Roadster, or an EV designed to be driven like a sportscar.

As for your second part I am not sure why you felt the need to post that, this isn't the Sierra club social hour.
The second half of my post was aimed at the thread not you specifically, I do not understand your response.
 

Lakados

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Fk china. That's USA projections. Try and keep up.
China is spending large amounts of money in Canada to get new mining rigs and pipelines in place to the coast that will double their import of Natural Gas, they have also signed agreements with many of the US's largest LNG producers to license tech and resources that will let them greatly increase their domestic production. They are also in the process of converting any plant that uses coal to produce less than 50,000 kW from Coal to Gas immediatly with further plans to expand this to all plants that produce less than 100,000 once the Canadian supply starts coming in. But yeah my bad China will still be producing some 1,300 GW with coal which is still more than the US's 1,100 GW's worth. So yes US is doing a better job of decreasing their Coal plants faster, but China still vastly outpaces everybody with the install of Solar plants with their 3 newest producing a combined 130 GW which is not a small amount. To really drive home their desire for cleaner power the Chinese government is still the largest backer fo the Skunk Works Compact Fusion project which the heat exaust ports are coincidently drop in compatable with just about any Chinese coal plant built in the last 20 years.
 
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HeadRusch

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No complaints with the Cobra's of that area in the looks department....18 horsepower but they looked suitably 70's muscle car in appearance :) Gimme dem louvers! But this Model 3 clone is not at all what I was expecting or hoping for.....and I don't think many were. Mustang...you know, make it look like one, not like a Model 3 that someone got more creative on with the modeling clay. This is truly disappointing. Someone did a comparison up top with the BMW crossover, that at least has a little bit of ass hanging out behind it's wheelbase, and we all know in 2019 we likey the ass.....
 

Lakados

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No complaints with the Cobra's of that area in the looks department....18 horsepower but they looked suitably 70's muscle car in appearance :) Gimme dem louvers! But this Model 3 clone is not at all what I was expecting or hoping for.....and I don't think many were. Mustang...you know, make it look like one, not like a Model 3 that someone got more creative on with the modeling clay. This is truly disappointing. Someone did a comparison up top with the BMW crossover, that at least has a little bit of ass hanging out behind it's wheelbase, and we all know in 2019 we likey the ass.....
Until the machines that build the frames become smaller and more agile the designs between all the companies are going to look pretty close, they are all using the same modeling software, with their aerodynamics being analized by the same simulators, being built by the robots made by the same company. Until those robots get large overhauls or the major manufacturers start using more humans to build them there is going to be very little in the way of design variations between vehicles.
 

Gideon

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While true for standard consumer EV's, I do not believe that was the case for the Roadster, or an EV designed to be driven like a sportscar.
Limitations of the Tesla for performance driving
All Tesla vehicles have intelligent battery management systems in place to not only heat but also cool the individual battery cells to ensure the longevity of the battery pack. For normal day to day fast driving on roads, you will rarely see any limitations but if you have a cold or hot battery the car will limit performance, you can tell this by a dotted yellow line on the energy graph.

After roughly 10-15 minutes of heavy driving, the battery will be at a high temperature and will require 1-15 minutes of cooling before the car will give full performance again.

Max battery mode (Performance Models only)
Turn on Insane or Ludicrous modes, below this you will see the words ‘Max Battery’ press this and a pop up window will appear, switch Max battery mode on. The car will heat up the battery to increase performance. This will increase battery use. It will take 5-60 minutes to heat the battery. After 10 – 15 minutes of hard performance you the car will showing ‘Cooling’ as the car cools the battery pack down.
 

Snowdog

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Limitations of the Tesla for performance driving
All Tesla vehicles have intelligent battery management systems in place to not only heat but also cool the individual battery cells to ensure the longevity of the battery pack. For normal day to day fast driving on roads, you will rarely see any limitations but if you have a cold or hot battery the car will limit performance, you can tell this by a dotted yellow line on the energy graph.

After roughly 10-15 minutes of heavy driving, the battery will be at a high temperature and will require 1-15 minutes of cooling before the car will give full performance again.

Max battery mode (Performance Models only)
Turn on Insane or Ludicrous modes, below this you will see the words ‘Max Battery’ press this and a pop up window will appear, switch Max battery mode on. The car will heat up the battery to increase performance. This will increase battery use. It will take 5-60 minutes to heat the battery. After 10 – 15 minutes of hard performance you the car will showing ‘Cooling’ as the car cools the battery pack down.
Pretty much only matters on the track, and only an extremely tiny minority of people actually race their cars on a track.

If Tesla (or any EV maker) wanted to engineer an EV for the track it would be simple to do so, but it would make the car heavier, and more cosly, making it a detriment to the likely >99% that won't take their car on a race track.
 

Gideon

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Pretty much only matters on the track, and only an extremely tiny minority of people actually race their cars on a track.

If Tesla (or any EV maker) wanted to engineer an EV for the track it would be simple to do so, but it would make the car heavier, and more cosly, making it a detriment to the likely >99% that won't take their car on a race track.
Sucks for them, my Hellcat has been on the track at Sonoma Raceway many times. As for the rest the car is way to underbuilt yet costs as much if not more then the cars that are built for running hard. Also dont forget it can take up to a hour to get the batteries to the correct state to even run them hard for max performance. Far to many limitations and I dont get to hear the roar of the motor on top of it.
 

Auer

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EV Stang would be cool. I dont mind one bit.

Hybrids are ruling LeMans, A VW EV has the Pikes Peak record. Good times.

When the WRC has full out EV's, then they have really arrived.
 

Snowdog

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Sucks for them, my Hellcat has been on the track at Sonoma Raceway many times. As for the rest the car is way to underbuilt yet costs as much if not more then the cars that are built for running hard. Also dont forget it can take up to a hour to get the batteries to the correct state to even run them hard for max performance. Far to many limitations and I dont get to hear the roar of the motor on top of it.
I am sure many people stayed with their horse and buggy when the world switched over to the automobile. Congrats on being stuck on the past.
 

Snowdog

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On the more Truck side of the Coin. A nice interview with Rivian:

The amazing things you can do with 1 EV motor per wheel. The can optimize torque individually for each wheel, and accurately measure the torque per wheel. Really excellent torque vectoring, to the point of doing "Tank Turns".

EVs are just going to leave the ICE in the dust.
 

1_rick

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But the EV revolution is here now and gaining momentum.
How do you propose going from, say, Dallas to Chicago with an EV, without it taking much longer than going by car? I did some checking a year or so ago and it looked like Tesla didn't have enough Superchargers yet to make it, and without those, IIRC you can get about 3 hours of highway driving on an hour of charge. I'd hate to have long-distance trip times increase by a third.
 

Private_Ops

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To be fair, if Solid State batteries actually become a thing based off the lab tests being done with them gas powered vehicles are going away.

They are talking about 600 miles on the smallest batteries and up to 1500 mile trips on Tesla size batteries. If that’s even remotely possible it kills fuel injection vehicles across the board. Figure 2029 or so SSBs become mainstream which by then electric vehicles would have gotten to the point where the only thing preventing them from being entry level are SSBs.

*yes I got my information from Joe Scott .

That sounds great even for a solar systems, assuming we actually see them and the tech doesn't get thrown in a vault.
 

Snowdog

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I thought mostly they try to avoid that, to minimize unsprung weight.
The are not unsprung weight. It's one motor per wheel, but that doesn't mean the motor is in the wheel.

Each Motor is centrally located in the axle space, and a half shaft connects each motor to it's wheel.
 

Auer

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Most racing applications still use a very traditional power train setup.

Here's some pretty neat Formula E info:

 

Snowdog

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Most racing applications still use a very traditional power train setup.

Here's some pretty neat Formula E info:

I like that they get to use different gearbox and motor configs.
 

Mchart

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I am sure many people stayed with their horse and buggy when the world switched over to the automobile. Congrats on being stuck on the past.
Fairly uneducated comment.

A more valid comparison would be the move from steam power to the gasoline ICE. However, for many years the Stanley steamer, among other steam powered vehicles, were still the fastest in the world. It took a V8 on a motorcycle to beat it.

Generally, i'm not a fan of any of the current electric vehicles because they are 100% built to be disposed of, and a normal person can't work on them. It'll only get worse as time moves on as well. These things will be so locked down in the software that even if you could replace key components on your own the software will just brick the vehicle anyways.

I'll stick with my Hellcat Charger, and 95 Accord that I still use as my daily driver. If folks really cared about the environment they'd just stick with an old vehicle. The reality is, however, that most folks driving these current electric vehicles only say they care about the environment to win brownie points. They don't give a shit that the lithium in their batteries was mined via slave labour in Africa, that they could just be driving around a 20 year old vehicle that still makes 40+ MPG anyways, or that just a single supercontainer ship carrying everything that made their fancy electric vehicle outputs more carbon in one trip than they'd use alone in their entire lifetime. I'll get an electric vehicle as a daily driver if/when my 95 Accord rusts into the earth, but i'll always keep the Hellcat, just as some folks always held onto their Stanley Steamer.

Anyways, to get back on topic - This thing is fugly, and I honestly don't see it lasting longer than one automotive generation/cycle which is about four years.
 
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Snowdog

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Fairly uneducated comment.

A more valid comparison would be the move from steam power to the gasoline ICE. However, for many years the Stanley steamer, among other steam powered vehicles, were still the fastest in the world. It took a V8 on a motorcycle to beat it.
No the comparison is Automobiles displacing Horses. Around the turn of the 20th century there were only few thousand automobiles of multiple types, and tens of millions of horses. Used primarily for Horse and Carriage for personal transport, and horse and cart for local goods transportation.

A few decades later there were tens of millions of automobiles, and horse carriage sales had fallen to a few thousand. They were NOT displaced by Steam vehicles. They were displaced by petroleum powered cars, mostly Fords.

Not sure what speed records have to do with any of this, but early automotive speed records changed hands almost daily among Petroleum, Alcohol, Steam and even Electric:
https://newatlas.com/worlds-fastest-production-cars-1894-1914/46196/
 
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