Ford Mustang Mach E Leak: Mustang goes Electric

Mchart

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What is it about the 5.3" height difference between something like a Golf and a Mach-e GT that you find so offensive? Do you really not understand the idea of "What if hatchback but higher and more upright seating position and bigger doors?" or "What if SUV but more efficient and better handling?"
Because they handle like shit, and the high seating position is shit when you're talking about a car that is supposed to be driver oriented to performance driving.

It's why I hate CUV's. Most CUV's are, in fact, even smaller in the interior compared to their hatchback counterparts. The Focus & ecosport is the perfect example of this.

Give me a good wagon any day of the week over a CUV/SUV for a daily driver. It will handle better, and has just as much if not more interior room.

But what do I know. No one cares what I think anymore anyways. It's why i'm done with modern cars. The CUV/SUV trend has killed things for people like me.

Honestly, I don't even know why I bother replying to a comment like yours. You clearly have absolutely no idea what makes for a good performance oriented car, driving dynamics, etc if you think a Mach-E is that. But again, that's the mass market at this point. No one gives a shit about a good driver's-oriented car anymore. They just want their CUV that drives itself, goes fast, makes fart noises outside, and has Netflix on the giant tablet in the center. As much bullshit as possible since they really don't even enjoy driving to begin with.
 
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Aurelius

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Because they handle like shit, and the high seating position is shit when you're talking about a car that is supposed to be driver oriented to performance driving.

It's why I hate CUV's. Most CUV's are, in fact, even smaller in the interior compared to their hatchback counterparts. The Focus & ecosport is the perfect example of this.

Give me a good wagon any day of the week over a CUV/SUV for a daily driver. It will handle better, and has just as much if not more interior room.

But what do I know. No one cares what I think anymore anyways. It's why i'm done with modern cars. The CUV/SUV trend has killed things for people like me.

Honestly, I don't even know why I bother replying to a comment like yours. You clearly have absolutely no idea what makes for a good performance oriented car, driving dynamics, etc if you think a Mach-E is that. But again, that's the mass market at this point. No one gives a shit about a good driver's-oriented car anymore. They just want their CUV that drives itself, goes fast, makes fart noises outside, and has Netflix on the giant tablet in the center. As much bullshit as possible since they really don't even enjoy driving to begin with.
Here's your solution for a wagon. Drives genuinely well (from everything I've seen), carries a lot, looks great.

4. Cataratas Iguacu_Foz Iguacu.jpeg
 

Mchart

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Here's your solution for a wagon. Drives genuinely well (from everything I've seen), carries a lot, looks great.

View attachment 431698
Oh absolutely, I give them credit for making a proper car that is electric. However, my extra money goes towards older cars. My daily driver is a $17k Hyundai.
 

Camberwell

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Precisely... and Porsche isn't going to sit there desperately holding out — I could maybe see it keeping the 911 around until there isn't much choice, but it's probably going to electrify the rest of its lineup. The Macan EV is next.
Porsche is actively developing synthetic fuel (with Shell I think?) specifically to keep their large customer base that runs classic 911's happy....

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a35577611/porsche-synthetic-efuel-clean-emissions-testing/
 

repoman0

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This is why i've given up on modern cars. I drive around a $15k Hyundai for my daily, and i've got a collection of older cars that i'm spending all my money on. I didn't see any point spending $100k-$200k on a higher-end performance car when they don't even interest me anymore. I've got a 2002 M Coupe w/ 20k miles, and a 1995 850csi w/ 15k miles. Still building my collection.

Nice choices, especially the clown shoe. I’ve got an 05 M3 and 01 M5 and would add a couple more to the collection if I had the space (E9 Coupe …). Those two cars are 20+ year old design and engineering and they’re too fast for public roads as it is, so I’m with you that we don’t need a bunch of amateurs in 3.6 sec CUVs. The cybertruck in particular is a huge joke to me, 2.x seconds to 60 and probably severely underbraked like the shitty Model S Plaid.

Don’t write off modern cars completely though — I picked up a new Miata 6-speed club last year and it’s more fun than my old BMWs. I was looking for something slower for the street and cheaper to run at the track than my M3. Straight line speed is boring.
 

Mchart

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Nice choices, especially the clown shoe. I’ve got an 05 M3 and 01 M5 and would add a couple more to the collection if I had the space (E9 Coupe …). Those two cars are 20+ year old design and engineering and they’re too fast for public roads as it is, so I’m with you that we don’t need a bunch of amateurs in 3.6 sec CUVs. The cybertruck in particular is a huge joke to me, 2.x seconds to 60 and probably severely underbraked like the shitty Model S Plaid.

Don’t write off modern cars completely though — I picked up a new Miata 6-speed club last year and it’s more fun than my old BMWs. I was looking for something slower for the street and cheaper to run at the track than my M3. Straight line speed is boring.
I should say I haven't given up on modern cars, but i've given up on modern cars from big manufacturers. In 4-5 years I plan on building an Ultima RS and dropping a crate LT6 into it. I'm basically going to be building a better Z06 since i'll have stickshift and less weight. If I were mega-rich i'd already have an order in for the T.50, which is about the only supercar in the past couple decades that interests me since it's V12 + stickshift.
 
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Because they handle like shit, and the high seating position is shit when you're talking about a car that is supposed to be driver oriented to performance driving.

It's a daily driver, compromises are made. Just because people have different priorities than you doesn't mean you're right and they're wrong.

You've got two performance cars that you don't drive and a daily driver that is boring.
 

Mchart

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It's a daily driver, compromises are made. Just because people have different priorities than you doesn't mean you're right and they're wrong.

You've got two performance cars that you don't drive and a daily driver that is boring.
I don't? I guess I should let my insurance company know, I could be saving a lot of money.

And no, serious compromises don't have to be made with a daily driver if these manufacturers would be building wagons. The problem is idiots believe the CUV is more capable, when it in fact isn't. A CUV is taller, but doesn't actually lift high enough off the ground to do anything different from what a wagon could do anyways. It tries to be a SUV, but isn't, so you end up with a turd good at nothing. However, the marketing departments have done a good job in convincing the throngs of idiots that a CUV is somehow more capable than an equivalent hatchback or wagon.
 
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To be fair if I had a 27 year old BMW I probably wouldn't want to drive it a lot either. Not very safe compared to a modern car. After I careen into you at 70 mph due to my cars poor driving dynamics I'm probably gonna walk away without a scratch while they're scraping you out of the BMW with a trowel.
 
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Here's your solution for a wagon. Drives genuinely well (from everything I've seen), carries a lot, looks great.

View attachment 431698

I tried to test drive one. Literally didn't fit in it. One of the down sides of being 6'5". The front doors on the Taycan are tiny, makes it hard to get in and out. They should have used another 6" of that enormous and essentially useless hood to give it a little more passenger space imo.
 

Wade88

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You can't tell me when all electric vehicles start to become the norm in the country (USA), that the cost of electricity will not rival that of what the equivelant of gas prices? come on! Right now it may seem cost effective, but our infrastructure in the US is so behind that they are throwing incentives to reduce energy consumption in form of rebates to prevent having to upgrade structure. This is like turnpikes...oh we will only charge enough to get it built and then we will think about dropping the tolls...nope! We would need to go back with nuclear power.

I am still not sold on electric...more electronics, replacing batteries, crumble zones near the batteries can total a vehicle (looking @ Tesla and the Gigapress). I would rather have a gas vehicle for another 30 years or so.
Making people want nuclear power again is the best idea I've ever seen you posit on this board. I would be tickled pink, to know that every single electron in my array of batteries came from such fancy boilers and turbines.

It is important that we reduce the size and increase the reliability of reactor technology so that we can have proper spaceships that don't need to lurk near the Sun all the time. After that we can look at bases on dark places like moons of the gas giants et al.
 
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Gideon

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To be fair if I had a 27 year old BMW I probably wouldn't want to drive it a lot either. Not very safe compared to a modern car. After I careen into you at 70 mph due to my cars poor driving dynamics I'm probably gonna walk away without a scratch while they're scraping you out of the BMW with a trowel.

They are not nearly that safe, in fact plenty of people still die in accidents despite modern safety standards.
 
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I was going to comment on how big a factor mass can be in car accidents just due to basic physics and EVs, of course, being quite heavy. But then I looked up how much an 850csi weighs and jesus christ, what a pig. We all know modern safety standards plus just cars becoming bigger and bigger have caused curb weights to continuously balloon for the last 4 decades or so and then you see a nearly 30 year old coupe that weighs over 4100 pounds? Surprised someone that puts driving dynamics above all else is driving such a tub. That's fat even by modern standards.
 

Camberwell

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I was going to comment on how big a factor mass can be in car accidents just due to basic physics and EVs, of course, being quite heavy. But then I looked up how much an 850csi weighs and jesus christ, what a pig. We all know modern safety standards plus just cars becoming bigger and bigger have caused curb weights to continuously balloon for the last 4 decades or so and then you see a nearly 30 year old coupe that weighs over 4100 pounds? Surprised someone that puts driving dynamics above all else is driving such a tub. That's fat even by modern standards.
To be fair it was a luxury GT car with 600lbs of V12 up front , but I've been in one and it sure as hell doesn't drive like a fat tub...
 

Mchart

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To be fair it was a luxury GT car with 600lbs of V12 up front , but I've been in one and it sure as hell doesn't drive like a fat tub...
Anyone can believe what they want. Reality is he never even knew the car existed until moments ago, and that is what puts a smile on my face. I don’t have to validate the car to the ignorant.
 
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Anyone can believe what they want. Reality is he never even knew the car existed until moments ago, and that is what puts a smile on my face. I don’t have to validate the car to the ignorant.

Totally false. I didn't know about the bloated curb weight though.

Here's another fact that will certainly violate your silly notions about me: I own 5 cars and 3 of them are manuals.

Your old man yells at cloud schtick is a lot of fun but you'd probably be happier and a more pleasant person if you realized and understood that it's okay for people to have different use cases and priorities than you it doesn't make them ignorant.

I also think it's hilarious that someone that owns an old V12 BMW is calling other peoples car purchases illogical.
 
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Maybe you'd be happier Mchart if your daily wasn't so mundane? I used to be the same way, my "good cars" stored away in the garage most of the time, and it sucks. Find something you can daily that speaks to you and is fun to drive. Being a car guy and spending 80%+ of your car time in a boring econoshitbox is no way to live. It's like you're a Mormon with two wives and one is a smokin hot supermodel and one is a 400 pound pig and you spend all your time with the pig because you don't want to wear out the supermodel.
 

Mchart

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I guess he's a CUV fan. I'd be irate constantly as well if I had one.
 
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I mean, you're the car guy that looks around and gets mad at nearly every car manufactured after 2008 or whatever, but okay, I guess I'm the irate one.
 

Darunion

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Guys, cmon. none of you are gonna change minds around here all this does is get threads closed. just let it go
 

Aurelius

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I'm just happy that the Mustang Mach-E appears to be a good EV for everyday drivers who want to move quickly. For that matter, we're seeing a wider range of genuinely nice EVs, like the Ioniq 5.

And yes, I'm in the camp where it's more important to get a daily driver you genuinely enjoy than save all the fun for a weekend/track day vehicle. Life is too short to punish yourself daily in the hopes of finding some elusive pleasure a few times a month.
 

Mchart

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I'm just happy that the Mustang Mach-E appears to be a good EV for everyday drivers who want to move quickly. For that matter, we're seeing a wider range of genuinely nice EVs, like the Ioniq 5.

And yes, I'm in the camp where it's more important to get a daily driver you genuinely enjoy than save all the fun for a weekend/track day vehicle. Life is too short to punish yourself daily in the hopes of finding some elusive pleasure a few times a month.
True, but you don’t need to spend much more than about the low $20k mark new to get something that is comfortable. I get it, I used to drive around some nice daily drivers, but when I realized a cheap Hyundai had a nice interior with heated seats, CarPlay, etc it wasn’t making much sense spending $50k+ on a vehicle that is intended to be largely disposable.
 

Camberwell

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I paid $5k for my 2000 E46 330Ci in Titanium Silver, 80,000 original miles and every option they had at the time apart from heated seats (auto airconditioning, electric memory leather sports seats, one touch electric windows including the rear quarterlights, cruise control, automatic windscreen wipers, self leveling xenon headlights, sat nav, 6 cd changer, headlight washers etc). I've refreshed it mechanically from the motor to every suspension bushing but kept it factory and it drives like new. Sure it's slow compared to modern cars but it has modern creature comforts combined with analogue driving and it will hold it's own in fast corners with most things on the road. Current EV's are one trick pony's and have no soul whilst costing silly money. The sooner synthetic fuel become available the better :D
 

Mchart

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Pretty much. While those above say "this is the future we need to embrace!"
It's all part of the plan, and the manufacturers love the idea of it. Cars that no one but them can repair, and no one will actually own them anymore. Couple that with the recent bill passed this summer that mandates all cars will have remote tracking/control by 2026.. Yeah, i'm not too keen on the future personally.
 

Mchart

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I paid $5k for my 2000 E46 330Ci in Titanium Silver, 80,000 original miles and every option they had at the time apart from heated seats (auto airconditioning, electric memory leather sports seats, one touch electric windows including the rear quarterlights, cruise control, automatic windscreen wipers, self leveling xenon headlights, sat nav, 6 cd changer, headlight washers etc). I've refreshed it mechanically from the motor to every suspension bushing but kept it factory and it drives like new. Sure it's slow compared to modern cars but it has modern creature comforts combined with analogue driving and it will hold it's own in fast corners with most things on the road. Current EV's are one trick pony's and have no soul whilst costing silly money. The sooner synthetic fuel become available the better :D
Yeah, the E46 330Ci's are great cars. Great styling, handle well, and just the right amount of features. Nor do you have to deal with having the S54. Sure, it has 100HP less, but low 200HP/TQ is still decent.
 

Randall Stephens

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Pretty much. While those above say "this is the future we need to embrace!"
Oh the average joe will get an EV, but it’ll be used. The idea that people making $30 an hour with 2 kids can afford the average priced new car doesn’t pan out today, and it won’t pan out tomorrow or next year or next decade. If you’re not pulling in much more than an average wage, you’re shopping the used portion of the lot or financing for 7 years.
 
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"This car really has soul, feel those handling dynamics" I say as I get passed at VIR by a 4 cylinder Mustang.

"Listen to the beautiful melody of that V12" I say, as I get beat at the drag strip by a plug in hybrid RAV4.

You know some people like to have actual performance in their performance car like it's not all about feelings and emotions and sounds to everybody some people actually like to go fast.
 

CaptNumbNutz

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I still believe this thing should have been a Focus and not a Mustang regardless of the choice of propulsion system.
 

Mchart

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"Listen to the beautiful melody of that V12" I say, as I get beat at the drag strip by a plug in hybrid RAV4.

You know some people like to have actual performance in their performance car like it's not all about feelings and emotions and sounds to everybody some people actually like to go fast.
Performance cars are all about emotion. The reality is even a Miata has enough power for fun on public roads.

Sure, if I was building a drag car and chasing 1/4 mile times I’d just buy a Plaid. However, I’m not doing that anymore. That’s why I have no issue with EVs. It doesn’t change the fact that they do absolutely nothing for me emotionally though, which is why I’ll never buy one as one of my fun weekend cars.

I’ll drive the latest Tesla once, punch the throttle to feel how fast it is, say “that sure is fast”, and then immediately move on with my life because it’s not something that I have any attachment to.

The curious thing with EVs is that they seem to attract a completely different type of person compared to sports cars of old. The people I know that LOVE EVs never gave any care about something like a F40, Terminator Cobra, etc
 
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repoman0

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"This car really has soul, feel those handling dynamics" I say as I get passed at VIR by a 4 cylinder Mustang.

"Listen to the beautiful melody of that V12" I say, as I get beat at the drag strip by a plug in hybrid RAV4.

You know some people like to have actual performance in their performance car like it's not all about feelings and emotions and sounds to everybody some people actually like to go fast.

Sounds like you need to work on driver mod.
 
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