Ford is Cutting Car Production Back to Just Mustang and Focus Active Models

SPARTAN VI said:
Not a tragedy, but I'm sure their competitors will happily gobble up those sales. I guess I'm outdated when I heard the Fusion and Fiestas were among their top selling models.
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There seems to be quite a few old fart nostalgia queens on the forum...







(and I'm the ORIGINAL "Olde Farte" here...)
 
Ford is run by a tribe of monkeys.

I still don't understand for the life of me why they got rid of the Crown Vic. They had the taxi cab and police cruiser market locked up tight. Why give away all those sure contract sales?
The police forces around here have just finally moved away from the old Crown Vics to Dodge Chargers. Taxis's moved to little import SUVs for the most part. Neither product owned by Ford. That was a huge customer demographic they lost...

They should have kept making the service vehciles (doubled down on them in fact), and at that point dropped everything that wasn't core sure sales. (keep F150, Mustang, Vans, Work trucks, and maybe work towards the new SUV line like the Edge/Traverse/Expedition - whatever - CHOSE one! Nobody needs 20 different models that change every 4 years and all have unique parts and problems to ferret out.) Make a very solid product, that has cheap replaceable parts year after year that runs like a top forever. Sales and repeat sales are assured!

My 2002 Pontiac Grand Prix GT and my 2000 Pontiac Grand Prix GTP were such good cars that I'd buy another one without reservation - with the same body style, and engine and tranny if one was offered new in 2018. No rust on the car, and the 3800 series engine is a 30 year + old design and was/is absolutely bullet proof. My 2002 has had one single problem all these years later - the plastic coolant elbow failed -- THATS IT - outside of regular maintenance items (oil, coolant, bets, brakes, tires). My 2000 Grand Prix GTP only had the power steering pump go out, and the A/C, and the drivers side window motor (i roll down my window every day to badge in at work) -- perfect otherwise as well.

Screw consumer reports for saying Japanese cars are more reliable. We bought a 2006 Honda Oddysey van and that thing has 10x's more problems than our American cars, shifts harder, is less 'smart' than my 2006 Dodge Ram truck. For instance the dome lights don't turn off automatically on the Honda Oddysey after x amount of time passes. How does that make ANY sense in a family vehicle? My 2000 Grand Prix GTP turned off the dome lights automatically after a few minutes if you left them on. The 2006 Honda Oddysey van has the MPG save feature where it deactivates half the cylinders and you can ALWAYS feel when it happens. My 2006 Dodge RAM truck does it too and I've never been able to tell when it does. Radio lights went out on the Van, Door hinge is busted and doesn't hold the door open on the Van, Automatic doors are both crap and won't open or close on command, the arm rest is junk and failing, the timing BELT had to be replaced while American vehicles use chains that never have to be replaced. The waterpump failed on my Oddyssey, the power steering pump failed, air bag light is on, carpets come unglued, ac is failing - etc etc etc, and it rides like a drunken buffalo. Yet look in consumer reports and the Honda Oddyssey is rated top shelf. scam.
 
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Dr. Righteous said:
Ford OWNED the police cruiser market for a long time with their Crown Vic line. But Dodge has taken a huge bite out of it with the Hemi powered Charger.
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Not really.

GM owns it with the Tahoe police cruiser; Ford follows with the Police Interceptor Taurus SHO AWD (380hp Ecoboost makes for a fast motherfucker); the rest is split between GM's caprice, the Charger, and the Explorer. Word is the charger isn't all the good, poor mpg, and wallows like a dead whale; caprice just doesn't sell for some reason.
 
DuronBurgerMan said:
The Mustang sells pretty well because they are cheap performance cars with a hefty aftermarket presence. If you want go-fast on the cheap, and are willing to wrench it yourself, it's a good enough platform. Hell, even if you just buy it stock. Hard to find that kind of go fast for the same money - save for its direct competition, the Camaro. That, and the name.
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Camaros are more expensive & make less power per unit displacement. They're also bigger & heavier. Same for the Challenger: looks good, but fat as a sideshow feature. The E-class Mercedes platform was never designed for performance.
 
Big_Rig_Stig said:
Camaros are more expensive & make less power per unit displacement. They're also bigger & heavier. Same for the Challenger: looks good, but fat as a sideshow feature. The E-class Mercedes platform was never designed for performance.
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Honestly they need to think different and build cars with lighter and better material, like aluminum and fiberglass. Also everyone should be trying to one up Tesla and go electric. This should have happened 10 years ago.
 
drdoug99 said:
I get SUV's and trucks are popular, but to me, Ford has a few too many SUV's.

You have the Escape, Edge, Explorer, Expedition, EcoSport, and the Flex. They used to also have the Excursion. I like the looks of all the SUV's mostly, but I don't see the point in having so many similar vehicles. Just have your small, mid size, and full size.

I have a used 2014 Fusion and it's been amazing for me. For a family sedan, the Fusion has plenty of room, power, looks good, etc. I for one will be sad they are getting rid of them.
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What kills me is how fucking HUGE the trucks have become. What is it with 'Murkins and their dreams of driving a Peterbilt???

When fuel hits $4-5/gal, you'll see them flooding the lots begging for more efficient cars...
 
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Big_Rig_Stig said:
My late-wife's 2012 Focus was a great car: drove well, handled well, got up and ran like a scalded cat, and had a pretty.good interior for the base-level SE. The engine was strong, and got 30+mpg on the highway; and, we both thought it was a great looking car.

My present roommate just got a 2016 Fiesta, and that's just as fun, just as quick, and gets even better fuel milage. And still looks damn good, IMHO.
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Most people have issues with the DCT because it's supposed to be driven like a manual transmission would. Blame Ford for not telling people how to do it; worse, bringing it to a country in which most have never even seen a manual transmission.

Fiesta and Focus are both damn fun to drive, but anything with a L4 here is "wimpy".
 
gunbust3r said:
Things that have worked against Ford sedans:
1: That terrible sync infotainment cluster they got into and tried to fix over and over again for years
2: Not being able to kill the Taurus. Taurus and Fusion compete against each other
3: Generic styling on the Fusion
4: Not refreshing the Taurus
5: Butt ugly Fiesta
6: The C-Max (was it solely to hit Cafe quotas?)
7: Half ass hybrids trims of whatever they could cram a battery into with the bonus of 50% trunk space disappearing and being blocked.
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1) my late wife's Mustang/Fusion/Focus all had Sync, and it worked flawlessly for her.
2) Taurus is full-sized;Fusion is mid-sized
3) guess you like Camry's
4) ... Maybe.
5) need glasses? It was THAT car that drove people to push Ford to bring it and the Focus out of Europe to America
6) C-max is everywhere as a service vehicle in multiple variations. Pretty damned successful for what it's intended.
7)...which is exactly what everyone else is doing for the same reasons. Try again.
 
Big_Rig_Stig said:
Camaros are more expensive & make less power per unit displacement. They're also bigger & heavier. Same for the Challenger: looks good, but fat as a sideshow feature. The E-class Mercedes platform was never designed for performance.
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When they completely redesigned the Camaro for the 2016 model year they made it smaller and lighter, by building off the GM Alpha platform they use for the smallest Cadillacs instead of Zeta imported from Australia. It's now slightly lighter than the Mustang (although I'm sure this will go back the other way with the next revision) and the same size. The Challenger is still the size of the moon though.

I predict that by the time Ford does this gas will shoot up in price and people will not want the giant SUVs anymore. These trends seem to be cyclical and this last happened in the late early 2000's. About time for it to happen again.
 
DuronBurgerMan said:
Crown Vic was one of the last body-on-frame cars made, IIRC. These days, only trucks are made that way. So cribbing Crown Vic parts for Truck/SUV lineups back then actually makes some kind of sense.
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Actually it doesn't at all. All full-sized SUVs were based on their truck counterparts period, except for the IRS, which was designed specifically for the Expedition/Navigator pairing. If a mechanic told him the parts were off a Crown Vic, he was flat lying.
 
My coworker: this is a good move, every one buys SUVs, and no one wants small or mid sized cars, and no one wants electric.

Me: Tesla has half a million orders for thier midsize electric car and people are willing to wait years in queue for one.
 
nutzo said:
I bought a Ford Explorer in 1995. Least reliable car I every owned.
It had more problems than every other car I owned before it (4) or since (3), Based on costs, it had more problems than all the other cars I've every owned, combined.
Luckily I bought the extended warranty, one of my best purchase decisions ever. :p
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And my late-wife had a 2002 Mountaineer that is utterly bulletproof as my mother-in-law is STILL driving it to this day.

Mid-90' were when Ford decided to go ISO9000 (iirc) and six-sigma with their production, which means they realized that they are in the car business and needed to focus on it. All of their cars got better from then on.
 
freeloader1969 said:
I have a 2006 Mustang GT and a 2009 Ford Escape. Only real problems I've had with the Escape is front end suspension issues. Never a problem with the GT besides normal wear items (brakes, clutch, etc...). I guess I'm just lucky. :)
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We had a 2004 Mariner, I wish I still had that little beastie... It REALLY loved going off road....
 
Biznatch said:
I can't see that being helpful on a mustang.... It's just a lot of unnecessary weight to a car that already has a ton of low end torque.
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It'll be I4 only, for folks who like the styling and 2-doors, but don't care much about performance.

That said, there's a couple kids in my apartment complex with 2005-2010 V6 Mustangs that they're hopping up with every power part and power adder they can stuff under the hood--reason: cheap fucking car, cheap parts, and when they blow the motors they'll drop V8s in & really go to town...
 
VirtualMirage said:
I, personally, think it is a stupid idea. Consolidate the car lineup, ok. But essentially strip it to nothing. Dumb move.

I used to own a 2012 Ford Edge Sport AWD, which I loved. But the gas mileage and maintenance costs weren't as good as it could have been, we didn't need the larger size anymore (little one didn't need a stroller and car seats didn't need to be reversed), and I wanted to lower my car payment. We ended up getting a 2016 Ford Fusion Titanium 2.0 Ecoboost AWD. Gas mileage improved, car payment went down $200 a month, and while it is a few inches longer than the Edge, it is narrower and made parking easier (both at stores and in the garage). It even costs less to maintain. The trunk is big enough to fit most of what I would stuff in a car. But if it was a hatch or wagon, I would love it even more (Come on Ford! You sell them in Europe. Bring them over here!).

Having said that, they can dump the Ford Taurus as it is in its current state. Aside from the SHO option, there is very little it brings to the table that the Fusion doesn't already have. And even that isn't entirely true now that the Fusion has the Sport mode with its twin turbo 2.7l V6. Sure, it looks bigger, but the Fusion actually has more interior volume. The Fusion also, for me, is more comfortable to sit in. The Taurus has really thick pillars and head liners. I sit tall in a car (all my height is in my torso), so my head was constantly banging against the headliner over the driver side window when I drove my mother's Taurus. The blind spots were worse too. The only thing the Taurus has over the Fusion is a larger trunk, by 4 cubic feet. Maybe if they thin out the pillars and headliner and actually increase the interior volume, it may be worth keeping as a true "large sedan". China's got the lengthened Taurus that looks decent.

As for the Focus and Fiesta, ditch the sedans and keep the hatchbacks. For the Fiesta, only sell the 2 door hatchback and for the Focus keep the 4 door hatchback. The sedans versions are a waste and offer nothing over what the hatchbacks have to offer. Not sure that Focus Active is going to appeal to as many people as the standard hatchback does. Both of these cars have their place in the market that a CUV is not going to fill, both in size and economy. If they only had to keep one, I would say then say to dump the Fiesta and keep the Focus Hatchback as it is more universal in capability while economy differences are not huge.

As for the CUV/SUVs, I think there are too many and not enough to differentiate between them: EcoSport, Escape, Edge, Explorer, Expedition. I think the EcoSport and Escape can be combined to fill the small CUV lineup. The Edge I think is a perfect mid-size CUV. The Explorer and Expedition should be combined to fill the large CUV/SUV lineup. Combining models may result in the need to create a new/updated model, but I think it would make more sense economically (for both business and buyer). It may require offering some additional powertrain options or packages to help fill the niches, but I think it would be better in the long run. Otherwise, the lineup choice is just too oversaturated.
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Europeans are much smarter than we are, and they get diesels.

The Fiesta/Focus sedans were a focus-group manager's wet dream, and should stayed there. They take the euro F/F, cut the hatch out, and replace it with a trunk, which actually weakens the unibody. Seriously dumb decision; but most American buyers are idiots these days, so...
 
DigitalGriffin said:
You would be incorrect. Trucks are NOT exempt. There's a truck target MPG and car target MPG and they combine into the Fleet Average MPG and that is weighted based on sales numbers. So yes truck MPG matters. They have to meet ALL 3 numbers.
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Only the ones classed as "light trucks" have to meet mpg/emissions standards. The bigger trucks (F250 and up) don't have to meet MPG, emissions, or crash standards.
 
_l_ said:
Ford's sedans and luxury vehicles started going down hill after the release of the 1972 Lincoln Continental Mark IV. Talk about a comfy car that could blast through any snow mound
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Yeah, I had a '73 Tbird with the same 460 in it, 6 mpg on a good day just doesn't cut it.
 
cdr_74_premium said:
Absolutely. Unfortunately, they seem to be sitting on that since 2013 or so.

Ford is the American manufacturer that gets design right, that's for sure.
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Every couple of decades, Ford turns over in the ivory tower, a few marketing/accounting types get in power, and they fuck over the company. They ditch them soon enough and put engineers back in control who are smart enough to bring in exciting and smart designs.
 
Archaea said:
Ford is run by a tribe of monkeys.

I still don't understand for the life of me why they got rid of the Crown Vic. They had the taxi cab and police cruiser market locked up tight. Why give away all those sure contract sales?
The police forces around here have just finally moved away from the old Crown Vics to Dodge Chargers. Taxis's moved to little import SUVs for the most part. Neither product owned by Ford. That was a huge customer demographic they lost...

They should have kept making the service vehciles (doubled down on them in fact), and at that point dropped everything that wasn't core sure sales. (keep F150, Mustang, Vans, Work trucks, and maybe work towards the new SUV line like the Edge/Traverse/Expedition - whatever - CHOSE one! Nobody needs 20 different models that change every 4 years and all have unique parts and problems to ferret out.) Make a very solid product, that has cheap replaceable parts year after year that runs like a top forever. Sales and repeat sales are assured!

My 2002 Pontiac Grand Prix GT and my 2000 Pontiac Grand Prix GTP were such good cars that I'd buy another one without reservation - with the same body style, and engine and tranny if one was offered new in 2018. No rust on the car, and the 3800 series engine is a 30 year + old design and was/is absolutely bullet proof. My 2002 has had one single problem all these years later - the plastic coolant elbow failed -- THATS IT - outside of regular maintenance items (oil, coolant, bets, brakes, tires). My 2000 Grand Prix GTP only had the power steering pump go out, and the A/C, and the drivers side window motor (i roll down my window every day to badge in at work) -- perfect otherwise as well.

Screw consumer reports for saying Japanese cars are more reliable. We bought a 2006 Honda Oddysey van and that thing has 10x's more problems than our American cars, shifts harder, is less 'smart' than my 2006 Dodge Ram truck. For instance the dome lights don't turn off automatically on the Honda Oddysey after x amount of time passes. How does that make ANY sense in a family vehicle? My 2000 Grand Prix GTP turned off the dome lights automatically after a few minutes if you left them on. The 2006 Honda Oddysey van has the MPG save feature where it deactivates half the cylinders and you can ALWAYS feel when it happens. My 2006 Dodge RAM truck does it too and I've never been able to tell when it does. Radio lights went out on the Van, Door hinge is busted and doesn't hold the door open on the Van, Automatic doors are both crap and won't open or close on command, the arm rest is junk and failing, the timing BELT had to be replaced while American vehicles use chains that never have to be replaced. The waterpump failed on my Oddyssey, the power steering pump failed - etc etc etc, and it rides like a drunken buffalo. Yet look in consumer reports and the Honda Oddyssey is rated top shelf. scam.
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Somebody needs a time machine....
 
Big_Rig_Stig said:
I think a bigger part of this is the 5-year buy cycle that's gotten longer (6-7 years now), and the industry is in the middle of the cycle, meaning sales are seriously depressed.
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Because cars have gotten more expensive, many people drive them longer. The overall increase in reliability also helps.

My last car was 11 years old when I replaced it. My current one is 5, but I plan to drive it for at least another 7 years.

My wife's car is almost 12 years old, and we are planning to keep it until our kid goes to/completes college, about 6 more years.
It's low mileage and garaged, so hopefully it will last that long.

Easier to afford college when you don't have any car payments. (y)
 
Quix said:
When they completely redesigned the Camaro for the 2016 model year they made it smaller and lighter, by building off the GM Alpha platform they use for the smallest Cadillacs instead of Zeta imported from Australia. It's now slightly lighter than the Mustang (although I'm sure this will go back the other way with the next revision) and the same size. The Challenger is still the size of the moon though.
.
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"Slightly" meaning about 50lbs...
 
nutzo said:
Because cars have gotten more expensive, many people drive them longer. The overall increase in reliability also helps.

My last car was 11 years old when I replaced it. My current one is 5, but I plan to drive it for at least another 7 years.

My wife's car is almost 12 years old, and we are planning to keep it until our kid goes to/completes college, about 6 more years.
It's low mileage and garaged, so hopefully it will last that long.

Easier to afford college when you don't have any car payments. (y)
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Not just that, but the payment plans are now extending into 6 and 7 years, meaning the cycle got that much longer.

My 2001 F150 Lightning just turned over 100k, and I'm NEVER getting rid of it...
 
Archaea said:
Screw consumer reports for saying Japanese cars are more reliable. We bought a 2006 Honda Oddysey van and that thing has 10x's more problems than our American cars, shifts harder, is less 'smart' than my 2006 Dodge Ram truck. For instance the dome lights don't turn off automatically on the Honda Oddysey after x amount of time passes. How does that make ANY sense in a family vehicle? My 2000 Grand Prix GTP turned off the dome lights automatically after a few minutes if you left them on. The 2006 Honda Oddysey van has the MPG save feature where it deactivates half the cylinders and you can ALWAYS feel when it happens. My 2006 Dodge RAM truck does it too and I've never been able to tell when it does. Radio lights went out on the Van, Door hinge is busted and doesn't hold the door open on the Van, Automatic doors are both crap and won't open or close on command, the arm rest is junk and failing, the timing BELT had to be replaced while American vehicles use chains that never have to be replaced. The waterpump failed on my Oddyssey, the power steering pump failed - etc etc etc, and it rides like a drunken buffalo. Yet look in consumer reports and the Honda Oddyssey is rated top shelf. scam.
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While Honda's are generally good, the Oddysey is probably one of their least reliable vehicles.

I was looking at minivans for the wife back in 2006, and decided on the Toyota, largely based on the less than average reliability of the Honda.
The Toyota (made in America) has been solid. Only problem we had was an airbag that failed and was covered under warranty. (light on the dash came on to warn us)

They rated my Ford Explorer as average. With all the problems it had, I will never buy a vehicle that is only rated average.
 
Big_Rig_Stig said:
Ford at one point tried to drop the Mustang (during the Probe years), but the fans saved it. Now.its not only the hottest pony car out there, it looks damned good doing it.

GM & Chrysler totally fucked themselves with the camaro/firebird and charger/challenger failures (meaning they didn't make something that could compete with the mustang and be viable). But this is what happens when marketing and accounting wonks run a company.
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Umm.. https://www.torquenews.com/106/dodge-challenger-beats-ford-mustang-chevrolet-camaro-february-sales
 
Big_Rig_Stig said:
Not just that, but the payment plans are now extending into 6 and 7 years, meaning the cycle got that much longer.
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If you need a 6 or 7 year loan to buy a car, you need to buy something cheaper that you can actually afford.

I've always saved up before buying a car, and when I did take a loan, I paid it of early, usually in less than 2 years.
Only exception is my current car. They had a 5 year 0% loan deal (no rebate or I would have taken that instead).
They also financed the complete cost of the car, taxes and everything. Drove off putting 0 down. No reason to pay it off early when it's 0%.
 
I can't blame them. The market with these kids growing up is changing a lot. I see a lot of kids not at all interested in driving or even learning to drive. Half of them even seem to ave anxiety issues when it comes to the concept.
Then there are the kids that will drive but have no desire for any kind of sedan. Gone seem to be the days of picking up all your friends and going out to the mall or whatever. They seem content with just being on social media 90% of the time. The males would much rather spend their money
on the latest video game, the females want the latest phone and handbags. Nobody wants to spend much at all on a car. With the rise of Uber and services like it, these kids have options.
 
Gideon said:
Umm.. https://www.torquenews.com/106/dodge-challenger-beats-ford-mustang-chevrolet-camaro-february-sales
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One month does not a trend make. Since the refresh, the mustang has won the pony car sales battle every year, and still leads this year.

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(source - goodcarbadcar.net)

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Big_Rig_Stig said:
Camaros are more expensive & make less power per unit displacement. They're also bigger & heavier. Same for the Challenger: looks good, but fat as a sideshow feature. The E-class Mercedes platform was never designed for performance.
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Who cares about power per liter, it's a meaningless metric, especially across different engine types. Weight, efficiency, size, hp and torque curves, and reliability are what matter, regardless of whether it comes out of 5L or 6.2L.

Big_Rig_Stig said:
Um, they did: it was called the Police Interceptor (not the V10 version).
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No they didn't. For such a big Ford fanatic, you sure are lacking knowledge on the CVPI. The reason a CVPI can accelerate faster than a standard CV is due to the 3.27 rear gear ratio (3.55 optional). Standard Crown Vics had a 2.73 gear. They all had the same dinky 4.6 L 2V engine. The only Panther to come with a more powerful engine was the Marauder with the 4.6 L 4V from the Cobra.
 
Big_Rig_Stig said:
Camaros are more expensive & make less power per unit displacement. They're also bigger & heavier. Same for the Challenger: looks good, but fat as a sideshow feature. The E-class Mercedes platform was never designed for performance.
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From what I see the camaros and mustangs are very closely matched on the track. The dodge top teir stuff owns the strip.
Camaros/LS/LTx make more hp and torque per engine size/weight/volume than equivalent SBF/coyote etc and have half the valves and smaller size making it easier to work on at home. You're trying to shit on the most widely supported and produced performance engine range of all time. Hell, I run one I my Honda because it's better than a little 2l 4 banger that had most hp/L for 12 years until the 458 Italia. Hp/L is almost meaningless in real world.
Capacity of the engine is nearly irrelevant unless you're from samurailand or Bongland where insurance laws are used to protect local industry so they can shit out 100cc deathboxes.
 
koolaidkitten said:
I can't blame them. The market with these kids growing up is changing a lot. I see a lot of kids not at all interested in driving or even learning to drive. Half of them even seem to ave anxiety issues when it comes to the concept.
Then there are the kids that will drive but have no desire for any kind of sedan. Gone seem to be the days of picking up all your friends and going out to the mall or whatever. They seem content with just being on social media 90% of the time. The males would much rather spend their money
on the latest video game, the females want the latest phone and handbags. Nobody wants to spend much at all on a car. With the rise of Uber and services like it, these kids have options.
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i mean we live in a society where we no longer have to go meet some one face to face to talk to them, welcome to technology. for the most part young people aren't buying new cars, they're buying what ever will get them from point A to point B as cheaply as possible. i can't remember the last time ford's released a sedan that actually made me ever think about considering buying it so i have no real problem with them dropping them. but ultimately i think crossovers have finally put the nail in the coffin for sedans, crossovers get almost the same mileage, they carry more, they hold the same amount of people way more comfortably.

either way i'll stick with my 20 year old SUV.. i don't need all this fancy crap they're adding to cars.
 
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