For those that think Firefox is doing so well

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SirKenin

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Firefox's share shrunk to 8.07 percent from 8.71 percent in June, while IE grew its market slice to 87.20 percent in July from 86.56 percent last month
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http://www.infoworld.com/article/05/08/12/HNfirefoxloses_1.html

Looks like Firefox isn't even a force to be bothered with, never mind reckoning with. It also explains the lack of Firefox exploits (although there have been quite a few really nasty ones). What hacker in his right mind is going to attack 8% of the market when he can inflict pain on 87%? Well, the answer is painfully obvious.
 
So? Firefox's market share goes up and up and up for several months and then takes a dip one month and you conclude that we shouldn't even bother with firefox? :confused: I'm really not sure where you are coming from. I, for one, am going to continue to support the browser that people don't want to mess with attacking. And btw, your post sounds incredibly trollish, so I'd be surprised if this thread lasts more than a day. And why is this in operating systems?
 
I still think that the only reason IE has so much market share is because it comes standard with any Windows install. I think that most people are thinking that if there's already a browser installed that appears to work ok why go and get another one (kind of like the old saying, "if it ain't broke don't fix it"). I know my dad was this way. He was complaining one day because of something that IE was having a problem with (I don't remember what now) so he asked me to see what I could do. The first thing I did was download Firefox and use it and had no problems. Since then he uses Firefox for everything except the sites that are specifically coded for IE.
 
Paithar said:
I still think that the only reason IE has so much market share is because it comes standard with any Windows install. I think that most people are thinking that if there's already a browser installed that appears to work ok why go and get another one (kind of like the old saying, "if it ain't broke don't fix it"). I know my dad was this way. He was complaining one day because of something that IE was having a problem with (I don't remember what now) so he asked me to see what I could do. The first thing I did was download Firefox and use it and had no problems. Since then he uses Firefox for everything except the sites that are specifically coded for IE.
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I can buy into this argument actually. I don't, however, buy into the thinking that to fix something broken you just go download something else. That doesn't make any sense. A good tech solves the problem.
 
jpmkm said:
So? Firefox's market share goes up and up and up for several months and then takes a dip one month and you conclude that we shouldn't even bother with firefox? :confused: I'm really not sure where you are coming from. I, for one, am going to continue to support the browser that people don't want to mess with attacking. And btw, your post sounds incredibly trollish, so I'd be surprised if this thread lasts more than a day. And why is this in operating systems?
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No, their market share dips and dives around 8%. The 8% is a force that is not worth reckoning with, especially if you are a hacker. You target the majority, just like hackers do with Windows. A very slim percentage of people are using Linux, so why target it? You target where you can inflict the most damage.
 
SirKenin- so you honestly think IE is a better browser? or that Firefox would have just as many exploits if the tables were turned and it had 87% of the market share?

The number of exploits would likely be higher, but with a browser not tied so intricately to the OS it would be no where near the current numbers of IE.

As far as I'm concerned that 87% percent deserves all it gets. It keeps my shop in business :p
 
SirKenin said:
No, their market share dips and dives around 8%. The 8% is a force that is not worth reckoning with, especially if you are a hacker. You target the majority, just like hackers do with Windows. A very slim percentage of people are using Linux, so why target it? You target where you can inflict the most damage.
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I'm so confused. Are you saying firefox sucks and we shouldn't use it because hackers don't target it? You come off sounding like you are against firefox, but all your arguments thus far seem to support firefox. :confused: The fact that hackers aren't targetting firefox as much as IE is a good thing. btw, a ton of servers run linux and a lot of them are quite high profile. Seems like a great target for hackers. But I don't even know why I am arguing with you. Are you just trying to compensate for something? You kinda sound like a kid who buys a really expensive computer then finds out that it is complete shit, so he turns around and talks bad about everyone else's computers just to make him feel better about his waste of money.
 
dx2 said:
SirKenin- so you honestly think IE is a better browser? or that Firefox would have just as many exploits if the tables were turned and it had 87% of the market share?

The number of exploits would likely be higher, but with a browser not tied so intricately to the OS it would be no where near the current numbers of IE.

As far as I'm concerned that 87% percent deserves all it gets. It keeps my shop in business :p
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Some shop it must be if you don't even know that the reasons IE is getting attacked are 1) the market share and 2) Not that it is tied with the O/S, that has nothing to do with it whatsoever. Rather it has to do with the fact that Microsoft is balancing functionality with security, a deadly game that the ladies at Firefox do not play. Firefox lacks key browsing functionality in the interest of "safety". Even still, they get attacked succesfully.

Microsoft then attacked the security issue by providing Microsoft Antispyware to beef up their browser. So, now they have the best of both worlds while Firefox at it's whopping 8% has to claim they lack functionality to browse half the websites on the Internet.

Heh.
 
jpmkm said:
I'm so confused. Are you saying firefox sucks and we shouldn't use it because hackers don't target it? You come off sounding like you are against firefox, but all your arguments thus far seem to support firefox. :confused: The fact that hackers aren't targetting firefox as much as IE is a good thing. btw, a ton of servers run linux and a lot of them are quite high profile. Seems like a great target for hackers. But I don't even know why I am arguing with you. Are you just trying to compensate for something? You kinda sound like a kid who buys a really expensive computer then finds out that it is complete shit, so he turns around and talks bad about everyone else's computers just to make him feel better about his waste of money.
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If you note, I targetted Linux desktops specifically.
 
SirKenin said:
If you note, I targetted Linux desktops specifically.
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No you didn't. You were talking about people using linux, and I do believe linux servers get used by people.
 
jpmkm said:
No you didn't. You were talking about people using linux, and I do believe linux servers get used by people.
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Look at the context. Jeeeez.
 
SirKenin said:
Some shop it must be if you don't even know that the reasons IE is getting attacked are 1) the market share and 2) Not that it is tied with the O/S, that has nothing to do with it whatsoever. Rather it has to do with the fact that Microsoft is balancing functionality with security, a deadly game that the ladies at Firefox do not play. Firefox lacks key browsing functionality in the interest of "safety". Even still, they get attacked succesfully.

Microsoft then attacked the security issue by providing Microsoft Antispyware to beef up their browser. So, now they have the best of both worlds while Firefox at it's whopping 8% has to claim they lack functionality to browse half the websites on the Internet.

Heh.
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You can't keep hiding behind market share. Market share is a large part of why IE is attacked so much, but market share didn't make IE vulnerable. Being tied to the OS doesn't have anything to do with IE getting attacked, but when those attacks can potentially bring down the OS then that is bad. And on a side note, again, why did you put this post in OSes? I've been using firefox forever and it really doesn't seem to be lacking any functionality, let alone key browsing functionality. If anything, I'd say firefox has more functionality than IE. Hell, with extensions, firefox essentially has unlimited functionality. Firefox can browse a lot more than half the websites on the internet. Please stop with the flamebait. It really hurts your entire argument when you post stuff like that.

And you still haven't said why IE is good and why firefox is bad. The only thing close was a very vague opinion. So far, from what I can gather from your posts, it seems like you are saying firefox is bad because it gets attacked less. Right? And IE is good because it gets attacked more.
 
I'll stick with FF. Aside from security issues, proper CSS renderings are still a bit iffy with IE.
 
SirKenin said:
Look at the context. Jeeeez.
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No, their market share dips and dives around 8%. The 8% is a force that is not worth reckoning with, especially if you are a hacker. You target the majority, just like hackers do with Windows. A very slim percentage of people are using Linux, so why target it? You target where you can inflict the most damage.
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I'm sorry, I'm just not seeing it. You were talking about market share of windows vs linux, not in any specific context. The only possible way I could have known that you were talking about desktops was that you briefly talked about firefox's market share. Jeeez.

And btw, I don't know if I've mentioned it yet or not, but I'd just like to say that the hackers didn't put the vulnerabilities in windows and IE.
 
SirKenin said:
Microsoft then attacked the security issue by providing Microsoft Antispyware to beef up their browser. So, now they have the best of both worlds while Firefox at it's whopping 8% has to claim they lack functionality to browse half the websites on the Internet.
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If by this you mean that Firefox doesn't have ActiveX controls, I do just fine without that, which is the only thing "missing" from Firefox. By "missing", I mean that Firefox doesn't come with a gaping open wound of a security problem for which they have been reusing the same band-aids and water out of a toilet to fix up.

Also, I can turn all my icons into teddy bears under FireFox. Can you do that with IE? I think not. If you use IE, that means you're against teddy bears. In case anyone missed it, I think this entire argument is silly and makes no sense. Just like teddy bear icons.
 
jpmkm said:
I'm sorry, I'm just not seeing it. You were talking about market share of windows vs linux, not in any specific context. The only possible way I could have known that you were talking about desktops was that you briefly talked about firefox's market share. Jeeez.

And btw, I don't know if I've mentioned it yet or not, but I'd just like to say that the hackers didn't put the vulnerabilities in windows and IE.
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Whatever.... Go back to smoking whatever it is you're smoking. You're not worth the trouble.
 
SirKenin said:
Firefox lacks key browsing functionality in the interest of "safety".
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I can't play ActiveX games in Firefox? Oh no!

I'm noticing a rise in Microsoft shills in forums I visit. Coincidentally, they all say the exact same things using similar-sounding phrases. The pay must be pretty nice.
 
SirKenin said:
Whatever.... Go back to smoking whatever it is you're smoking. You're not worth the trouble.
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Please don't tell me that's your final argument. As trollish as every one of your posts have been, I've been willing to have an intelligent discussion. I've tried being civil, but your replies have mostly been hostile. If hearing a counterargument is not worth the trouble then why are you here? Why did you post here if people like me weren't worth the trouble. As far as I'm concerned that just shows that your original post was 100% flamebait.
 
dx2 said:
SirKenin- so you honestly think IE is a better browser? or that Firefox would have just as many exploits if the tables were turned and it had 87% of the market share?

The number of exploits would likely be higher, but with a browser not tied so intricately to the OS it would be no where near the current numbers of IE.

As far as I'm concerned that 87% percent deserves all it gets. It keeps my shop in business :p
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Very true.
 
SirKenin, I give you a 4/10 on your troll post.

You'd have gotten the extra 1 point, but you just had too many illogical conclusion jumps and you were a bit too rabid in your ramblings. Keep trying tho, you show promise.

To everyone else: Don't feed the trolls.
 
If you stay away from the pr0n sites, and warez sites IE isn't that bad.. I have not had to clean any spyware out of my machine in months.. (I use FF when pr0n sufing ;) ) IE for everything else..
Of course that doesn't make IE any more secure..

But liken the Internet to a large city, muggings can happen anywhere, but they happen alot more often in certain parts of the city.. Many people avoid those parts of the city.. Other can't avoid them or are too ignorant of the dangers to avoid them, (and some people are just plain stupid).. It shouldn't be that way, but it all too often it just is..

Is anyone getting what I'm saying? I'm not very eloquent, sorry.
 
I use FireFox and IE. If you keep up-to-date on your protection then you will never have a problem, at least I have never had a problem.

Anyway, use both and then no one has to bicker over either.
 
compslckr said:
i agree with that conclusion
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That may be so, but I have no reason to switch back to IE. I am one of the people who has the "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" mentality. IE wasn't literally broken, but it was vulnerable, and my computer turned to shit because of it a couple of times. I use FireFox now, and it has proven itself to be a reliable and customizable browser. FF isn't 'broke' so why fix that?
 
Tabs and speed is the only reason I'm on FF... and some of those optimized builds are just blazing fast.
 
ff being standards compliant is nice, but i'd say tabs is it's best feature. the other nice thing is that with extensions, new features can be added on at any time. i think that with sp2, ie became a good browser and blocked most problems (pop-ups, activex). i just find tabbed browsing to be more functional and a really good organizational tool. on my laptop without the middle mouse button it's a toss up but with middle click being "open in new tab" and "close tab", it makes tabbed browsing really easy and i got used to it very quickly
 
i love FF, thats what i use on all my home computers

but i just recently became "aware" of the IE7 beta floating around
 
You know, i dont use any browser because its popular, All this marketshare junk means NOTHING to me. Why? because untill i find something better, im using FireFox.

Here are some facts from me you can chew on:
1. For over a year, i have not had to deal with spyware on my computers
2. for over a year, i have not had a need to use IE, in my normal use i have no sites that use activeX
3. For over a year, i have yet to find a website that i couldnet view normally if not better than Firefox.

So simply, untill i find something better, FireFox is my browser.
 
SirKenin said:
No, their market share dips and dives around 8%. The 8% is a force that is not worth reckoning with, especially if you are a hacker. You target the majority, just like hackers do with Windows. A very slim percentage of people are using Linux, so why target it? You target where you can inflict the most damage.
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i don't get your point, i mean if it is not targeted by hackers, its better for us i think?

i mean i don't mind if ie has got a greater market share or is more popular

i'm concerned about myself, my needs and the effect of the action i imply

using ie [wow i'm using the most popular browser -_-] - slower / no tabbed browsing with mutiple windows opened / popupssssssss / spyware!!

using ff [i'm so dumb] - faster / tabbed browsing / average rate of one pop-up per month? [lol] / spyware? ... nevermind + bookmark toolbar + a better history managment [imo]

actually i used netscape browser a while ago the new one which features both ff and ie engines - was pretty good with great funnctionality etc but not stable [crushed at least once every-day] :( so went back to firefox altough it requred some more eneergy for my fingers lol netscape really spoils yu lol
 
jpmkm said:
I, for one, am going to continue to support the browser that people don't want to mess with attacking.
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The thing is though, if Firefox ever becomes as popular as IE, it WILL be attacked as much. Personally, I don't care at all for Firefox and will continue to use IE.
 
Rombus said:
3. For over a year, i have yet to find a website that i couldnet view normally if not better than Firefox.
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You wouldn't know. You don't use IE, so you don't realize how it's supposed to be viewed until you compare. I've done quite a few comparisons personally.
 
Everyone is entitled to their opinion. You are also entitled to ignore it.

You are also entitled to post threads in the correct forum.
 
SirKenin said:
You wouldn't know. You don't use IE, so you don't realize how it's supposed to be viewed until you compare. I've done quite a few comparisons personally.
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How about some links with screenshots? Besides, the only website I visit is the [H] anyway, and that works just fine! :D

Seriously, there are a mountain of features in FF that I find incredibly useful, and would miss a great deal if I switched back to IE full time. Market share means nothing in this arguement. While it's incredibly important to Mozilla, and those of us who want to see FF grow, it's lack of awareness more than anything else, holding FF back. Most home users can't locate the control panel in less than five minutes, let alone change their browser.

Think about Apple, OSX has a LOT of features that kick XP's butt. If you look at it strictly from a market share perspective, you would assume it sucks, since next to no one is using it. Now seriously, this can be a nice discussion if you like. Let's keep it that way?




 
Max Power said:
Tabs and speed is the only reason I'm on FF... and some of those optimized builds are just blazing fast.
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Then try IE7. Do a Google search for it. It's nice. I hate tabs though.
 
cuemasterfl said:
The thing is though, if Firefox ever becomes as popular as IE, it WILL be attacked as much. Personally, I don't care at all for Firefox and will continue to use IE.
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I'm actually looking forward to the day when firefox is attacked as much as IE. I think it'll be interesting to see how things go if IE and firefox ever have equal market sahre.
 
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