Follow the Law, China Tells Internet Companies

Iran: Their country, their rules. Plain and simple.
Nazi Germany: Their country, their rules. Plain and simple.


You understand then. This is not about human rights or what you or I believe is just. This is about a company that wishes to do business in a country that has certain laws they must abide by to conduct said business. They can abide by those rules or leave. I guess they could invade and attempt a regime change by gunpoint if they like, (that is the way of the world after all), but I was not aware Google had a private army capable of taking on China.
 
You understand then. This is not about human rights or what you or I believe is just. This is about a company that wishes to do business in a country that has certain laws they must abide by to conduct said business. They can abide by those rules or leave. I guess they could invade and attempt a regime change by gunpoint if they like, (that is the way of the world after all), but I was not aware Google had a private army capable of taking on China.

Haven't read the EULA for using Google search? You implicitly volunteered to be a conscript when the need emerges :p
 
wtf does global warming have to do with nuclear holocaust?

RTFA

article said:
This end-of-the-world clock, set up in 1947, is meant to convey how close we are to the end of the world via catastrophe caused by nuclear weapons or climate change, among other factors.
 
You understand then. This is not about human rights or what you or I believe is just. This is about a company that wishes to do business in a country that has certain laws they must abide by to conduct said business. They can abide by those rules or leave. I guess they could invade and attempt a regime change by gunpoint if they like, (that is the way of the world after all), but I was not aware Google had a private army capable of taking on China.

I was being a little sarcastic about Iran and Nazi Germany. Aside from war, public pressure is a great tool that can be used against the Chinese. China cares greatly about their image in the world. The Olympics showed that. I believe they even gave up disputed land with Russia so that Russia wouldn't boycott their Olympics.

If google leaves, China will be fine. But doing so is a big slam to China's image. A few more slams, and China won't be able to save face. They will eventually make concessions if they want to look better than other countries with dictatorships.

Whether or not you believe in manmade global warming, do you think China really has big concerns about global warming ... enough to restrict their industry's production? I'm sure China thinks they have far more important matters than global warming. Despite that, they will still go to Copenhagen and "talk" about global warming. They do want to put on the happy face to the rest of the world. They don't want to look bad. They will play the "we care" game. And to play it they need to back up their words with positive action, at least sometimes.

If google and others (not google alone) slapped them in the face several times. China would look like the dirty hairy bastard. They don't want it. Public pressure can move them, albeit slowly.
 
I was being a little sarcastic about Iran and Nazi Germany. Aside from war, public pressure is a great tool that can be used against the Chinese. China cares greatly about their image in the world. The Olympics showed that. I believe they even gave up disputed land with Russia so that Russia wouldn't boycott their Olympics.

If google leaves, China will be fine. But doing so is a big slam to China's image. A few more slams, and China won't be able to save face. They will eventually make concessions if they want to look better than other countries with dictatorships.

Whether or not you believe in manmade global warming, do you think China really has big concerns about global warming ... enough to restrict their industry's production? I'm sure China thinks they have far more important matters than global warming. Despite that, they will still go to Copenhagen and "talk" about global warming. They do want to put on the happy face to the rest of the world. They don't want to look bad. They will play the "we care" game. And to play it they need to back up their words with positive action, at least sometimes.

If google and others (not google alone) slapped them in the face several times. China would look like the dirty hairy bastard. They don't want it. Public pressure can move them, albeit slowly.

Yeah because it shows historically. Tibet, Tienanmen Square, blocking TV network broadcasting on the Olympics.

And it was Russia who gave China back their land, not the other way around.

China has been warned time and time again of their actions against world economy and yet they remain the way they are. Piracy, human rights violation, unsafe workplace, and so on. There's slow, and there's China.
 
We can find someone else to manufacture stuff. We should invade China, like Iraq, and overthrow an economically aggressive nation. It would help get rid of our national debt also.
 
Yeah because it shows historically. Tibet, Tienanmen Square, blocking TV network broadcasting on the Olympics.

And it was Russia who gave China back their land, not the other way around.

China has been warned time and time again of their actions against world economy and yet they remain the way they are. Piracy, human rights violation, unsafe workplace, and so on. There's slow, and there's China.

I'm not 100% but I could have sworn China gave up some land too.

They ignore us most of the time, but still, they do listen and put in at least fake effort. And lately they have tried to look more and more legit as time progresses. It's taken a lot work, but they are moving. (though slowly)
 
We can find someone else to manufacture stuff. We should invade China, like Iraq, and overthrow an economically aggressive nation. It would help get rid of our national debt also.

Somehow, I don't think this would have the outcome you think it would.
 
not that whole all out nuclear war with some heavy winter months thing?
 
Gawd if the Chinese people ever wake up and say enough is enough that will be a sight to see.
 
We can find someone else to manufacture stuff. We should invade China, like Iraq, and overthrow an economically aggressive nation. It would help get rid of our national debt also.

Sounds like someone is volunteering for a draft, and a very very painful war.
 
Open war with another nuclear power would end well.......Sounds like a good road to a nuclear winter and making the northern hemisphere uninhabitable for a while.
 
Let's pull that scab off, get the pain over with. Better than a slow toxic censored death! South Koreans, and Taiwanese are cooler anyways!
 
Let's pull that scab off, get the pain over with. Better than a slow toxic censored death! South Koreans, and Taiwanese are cooler anyways!

taiwan in particular is a great example that an open and honest democratic government is NOT incompatible with chinese people and society....

and for the record, i agree, fuck china, we should bring our business to the other asian countries, and of course india, eastern europe, and even africa and latin america....

we dont need china for low prices or cheap labor....
 
Let's pull that scab off, get the pain over with. Better than a slow toxic censored death! South Koreans, and Taiwanese are cooler anyways!

You all sound every thing so simple. Its not like get up and walk away.

They still need cheap Chinese labor to produce the good.
 
taiwan in particular is a great example that an open and honest democratic government is NOT incompatible with chinese people and society....

and for the record, i agree, fuck china, we should bring our business to the other asian countries, and of course india, eastern europe, and even africa and latin america....

we dont need china for low prices or cheap labor....

You must be very naive. You can not set up shop in a year or ten and produce the volume Chinese produce.

You need to build infrastructure. The Indian having try for almost 20 years and still not there.

The average person on this planet shop at Walmart not Sak.
 
No, I already said this. You cannot negotiate with Communists. Period.
And the cries when people have to pay full price for stuff not made in China will make everyone move the production back there again.

Google moving out of China is a loss for Google, not China.

Should be an interesting next few days. Will there be an exodus of other foreign businesses in China?
.
You can be sure India's rather excited about this prospect. They're going to be picking up the slack if an exodus occur.
@mashie: You need to learn from Azhar, there's not scarcity and China is not undispensable
Their country, their rules. Plain and simple.
Oh really?!!! Because I don't see that happening here in the U.S.? Or was it that the U.S. didn't took out the Islamic fanatic mediocre Psychiatrist Murderer terrorist out of the Army because they were afraid of being Tagged as Anti-Islamic? Oh man, are you one of those that criticizes your own country at every turn and wished we turned Communists? Either that or you aren't thinking what you're saying.
 
The authoritarian ultra-capitalist wolves in the skin of Communism that runs China today that the grievances should be directed to. There's NOTHING communist left in the Chinese Communist Party save in name, if we want to go on about hypocrisy.

In short, China's more like what Charles Dickens wrote about of England in the Industrial Revolution than Communist Russia.

Even amongst the ranks of those that can hit the Internet in China, there are voices of discontent over their extent of state censorship as well as the bureaucratic meddling in every aspect of the net culture. I have seen some interesting flame wars with some of their fenqing (rabid patriotic trolls) stating that it's Tibetan separatists that were 'targeted' and yet having others going 'ORLY?'

As for Taiwan, it took them from 1949 till 1980s before people can vote in lawmakers, and 1996 before their president can be directly elected by the people (something that the United States still doesn't have really...), with the latter 20 odd years being where the real action happened. Should CCP want to introduce a more democratic system (which they're not really convinced of at all), it will perhaps take just as long, if not longer to implement.

A real sad truth though is that democracy is a fragile thing. Taiwanese democracy was rocked to the core by the massive collusion/graft of its former president Chen Sui-Bien, and its legislative assembly is known to be a physically combative arena. Chinese patriotic trolls tend to look at those facts as fuels of their ammunition when they talk of democratic to the moderate posters online within China.
 
+1

People calling China Communist are stuck in the 70s. The China right now is more capitalist than the U.S. It is like the U.S. in the 1920s where money does all the talking and regulations are easily bypassed by bribery etc. Seriously when people are putting melamine into milk to make an extra buck that is not communism that is capitalism without any morals.
 
They also blocked World of Warcraft. You can take my freedom, but you cant take my god damn purples!
 
Come on, Steve, if someone came up to you and Kyle from an ISP and said we're going to take 20% of your readers/profit if you don't censor this article, you would think carefully about what you did next.

Twenty percent is a huge fraction of your audience, and, to put it good ole American terms, it's just bad business to turn them down completely. If you were to turn them down, you'd have cutbacks at the office for sure, maybe you'd lose a few employess, and all for people that will be censored anyways, the best thing you can do is at least put your spin on other things so they can get an external view point.

Similarly, boycotting China would do nothing, their massive population and cheap workforce makes them realistically immune to embargoes or any large scale boycott.

Google and other international companies like them are stuck between a rock and a hard place.
To clear out things first I KNOW putting an embargo is the most stupid thing ever. I do because my country has lived over it for more than 50 years now and still is just an excuse to keep the regime going while those in power live as what they are: Millionaires.

Isn't it amazing how the total lack of moral principles abound these days? It's no wonder the U.S. economy is in such bad shape. Just a bunch of lobbyist and short sighted leeches that go around doing nothing but ruin the country. Thank you for putting on an example of that trend. Oh, and btw. China was Estranged back in the 19th and no one around here cared, also it was conquered and ravaged by a bunch of horse raisers called The Mongols, while they were the biggest empire still around(while Rome fell due to disease and decadence). So what you say has no argument, China is Not untouchable. It is all a matter of contrasts. The other side is filled with Wussies, Pussies and followers, not a single leader to go around.
 
+1

People calling China Communist are stuck in the 70s. The China right now is more capitalist than the U.S. It is like the U.S. in the 1920s where money does all the talking and regulations are easily bypassed by bribery etc. Seriously when people are putting melamine into milk to make an extra buck that is not communism that is capitalism without any morals.
Then you have no idea what Communism is in essence. Keep reading, and I know for sure. You will never get it that way. Please don't try to make yourself look like an expert when all you have is textbook. Unless that, well you want to sound like real experts. Like the ones that denied a machine gun for the F4 Phantom back in the Vietnam wars. Because what you said resembles basically a guy seating at a desk not having a clue of what he's talking about. And I'm quoting an American Vietnam Pilot.
 
The authoritarian ultra-capitalist wolves in the skin of Communism that runs China today that the grievances should be directed to. There's NOTHING communist left in the Chinese Communist Party save in name, if we want to go on about hypocrisy.

In short, China's more like what Charles Dickens wrote about of England in the Industrial Revolution than Communist Russia.

Even amongst the ranks of those that can hit the Internet in China, there are voices of discontent over their extent of state censorship as well as the bureaucratic meddling in every aspect of the net culture. I have seen some interesting flame wars with some of their fenqing (rabid patriotic trolls) stating that it's Tibetan separatists that were 'targeted' and yet having others going 'ORLY?'

As for Taiwan, it took them from 1949 till 1980s before people can vote in lawmakers, and 1996 before their president can be directly elected by the people (something that the United States still doesn't have really...), with the latter 20 odd years being where the real action happened. Should CCP want to introduce a more democratic system (which they're not really convinced of at all), it will perhaps take just as long, if not longer to implement.

A real sad truth though is that democracy is a fragile thing. Taiwanese democracy was rocked to the core by the massive collusion/graft of its former president Chen Sui-Bien, and its legislative assembly is known to be a physically combative arena. Chinese patriotic trolls tend to look at those facts as fuels of their ammunition when they talk of democratic to the moderate posters online within China.
Again, another person who only reads textbooks and has no clue or historical conscience of what Communism is. Only third hand experience. But hey, this is a tech forum and that's actually the default behavior at Social Science Faculties all around the world, the ones that are supposed to know about these issues. All theory, no practice. No historical conscience, condemnation to repeat it. The truth is, the system does not make the man, which should be pretty obvious to anyone with a little bit of common sense. Men make men and Corruption is not in the system is in the men. But guess what. You said it yourself, HYPOCRISY. Please find me a Communist government in history that has worked by the textbook rules(The Capital) in actuality and I'll buy you the ticket to China myself. BTW COMMUNISM ISN'T SUPPOSED TO BE IMPLEMENTED IN BIG INDUSTRIALIZED COUNTRIES to begin with. And that's a rule, from Karl Marx himself.
Second thing Jose Marti said it in the 19th century. Communism will never work, simply because men are men. When you force men to become what they aren't they transform into hypocritical beings which end up being much more corrupted and evil than if they had never pretended to be what they aren't on the first place. If you don't know that simple truth, from the get go, then you have never lived through Communism.
 
Again, another person who only reads textbooks and has no clue or historical conscience of what Communism is. Only third hand experience. But hey, this is a tech forum and that's actually the default behavior at Social Science Faculties all around the world, the ones that are supposed to know about these issues. All theory, no practice. No historical conscience, condemnation to repeat it. The truth is, the system does not make the man, which should be pretty obvious to anyone with a little bit of common sense. Men make men and Corruption is not in the system is in the men. But guess what. You said it yourself, HYPOCRISY. Please find me a Communist government in history that has worked by the textbook rules(The Capital) in actuality and I'll buy you the ticket to China myself. BTW COMMUNISM ISN'T SUPPOSED TO BE IMPLEMENTED IN BIG INDUSTRIALIZED COUNTRIES to begin with. And that's a rule, from Karl Marx himself.
Second thing Jose Marti said it in the 19th century. Communism will never work, simply because men are men. When you force men to become what they aren't they transform into hypocritical beings which end up being much more corrupted and evil than if they had never pretended to be what they aren't on the first place. If you don't know that simple truth, from the get go, then you have never lived through Communism.

Almost forgot. You see the conclusion is we have this little limitation or "defect" called Free Will which no one can take away from us, not even ourselves(Even when we believe the contrary). And that little tiny thing will always prevent us from realizing Communism. Period. So don't talk about hypocrisy, hypocrisy is simply a consequence of not admitting we have free will. Talk about free will.

"If You Choose not to decide You still had made a Choice". I will choose Free will.
Neil Peart.
 
To clear out things first I KNOW putting an embargo is the most stupid thing ever. I do because my country has lived over it for more than 50 years now and still is just an excuse to keep the regime going while those in power live as what they are: Millionaires.

Isn't it amazing how the total lack of moral principles abound these days? It's no wonder the U.S. economy is in such bad shape. Just a bunch of lobbyist and short sighted leeches that go around doing nothing but ruin the country. Thank you for putting on an example of that trend. Oh, and btw. China was Estranged back in the 19th and no one around here cared, also it was conquered and ravaged by a bunch of horse raisers called The Mongols, while they were the biggest empire still around(while Rome fell due to disease and decadence). So what you say has no argument, China is Not untouchable. It is all a matter of contrasts. The other side is filled with Wussies, Pussies and followers, not a single leader to go around.

I think your English fails you, you don't seem to have understood my post.
 
Then you have no idea what Communism is in essence. Keep reading, and I know for sure. You will never get it that way. Please don't try to make yourself look like an expert when all you have is textbook. Unless that, well you want to sound like real experts. Like the ones that denied a machine gun for the F4 Phantom back in the Vietnam wars. Because what you said resembles basically a guy seating at a desk not having a clue of what he's talking about. And I'm quoting an American Vietnam Pilot.

Well want to enlighten me as to what is Communism? What does Vietnam have anything to do with what is Communism? Just because a country calls itself Communism does not mean it is Communist. I am not a political science major but I've taken my fair share of classes.

Of course you may well be more knowledgeable than those professors so please enlighten me as to what is the correct definition of Communism. What I was told from both lectures, books (hey I think the Communist Manifesto would be a good judge, a dull book though), is that Communism at the most basic level is the goods that workers produce should benefit the workers and going by that alone the present day China is not Communist. Not when people are making a killing using cheap labor to benefit a few. Care to point out my error in my reasoning?

p.s. Sorry I am not sure what "denied a machinegun" mean.
 
p.s. Sorry I am not sure what "denied a machinegun" mean.

A reference to the idiot leather armchair behind a mohagany desk warriors that decided the F-4 did not need a cannon/machinegun, while at the same time instituting rules of engagement that practicaly required cannons/machineguns and not missles be employed . It cost us a few pilots lives during Vietnam. Though, I am with you on not knowing what that has to do with China and Google.
 
Piracy, human rights violation, unsafe workplace, and so on. There's slow, and there's China.

At least they're headed in the right direction, unlike US. We have new laws every year that take away rights and restrict what we're free to do. Lawmakers put them in like it's their job (it is). Compared to 50 years ago, US citizens have far less freedom.
 
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