First Rule of GPP: Don't Talk About GPP

[magoo]

Does any of this matter at this point?

Unless you want a Titan V, you simply can't buy/find a "reasonably" priced GPU from either side.

To me, it's brilliant albeit shady......you absorb a company's highly recognized branding and marketing without doing anything......(legal).........

 

[FrgMstr]

Does any of this matter at this point?

Unless you want a Titan V, you simply can't buy/find a "reasonably" priced GPU from either side.

To me, it's brilliant albeit shady......you absorb a company's highly recognized branding and marketing without doing anything......(legal).........

And looking at GPP through a lens of "right now" is one of the reasons it is being put into action right now. No biggy since you can't buy GPUs anyway, so what difference does it make? What about next year when Navi is in GPU contention and the minging craze has stopped. If you think GPP is no big deal, look at its probable impact over the next decade. GPP is a long term play by NVIDIA to control the market. Don't let concern for its impact die off because it is not a big deal today.

 

[FrgMstr]

Can you definitively (or non-definitively) answer two questions: will AIB's be allowed to create separate sub-brands for AMD products if they choose to use their current brands for Nvidia?

If they can create separate sub-brands (or reorient secondary labels/brands i.e. Strixx versus ROG), can those other sub-brands be 'gaming' brands that simply bear no relation to Nvidia?

Yes.
Unclear.

 

[IdiotInCharge]

That 'unclear' is basically what we need to know- and we may only learn from watching AIB behavior, unfortunately.

 

[Jorona]

Great argument. It does nothing to address what I wrote.

I've been on these forums longer than you have. I lost my old account because my ISP shut down.

And, no, they're not all scarce. I just looked up the stock in my local stores and every one of them has 1070/1080/1080Ti cards in stock. Not a single one of them has Polaris cards.

Just because your store has them doesn't mean everyone has them available. The Microcenter and BB by me never have anything. I'm also not paying more the MSRP. I bought my wifes 1070 when they first came out, and it's worth more now. Sounds like Nvidia should increase production too.

And I TOTALLY BELIEVE YOU. /sarcasm

 

[renz496]

You dont look back far enough/at the larger picture. The 4000 and 5000 series were home runs knock-it-out-the-park good. The 6000 series was just plain old solidly good. At all but the top top end they had the best offerings, or being *harsh* equally as good as Nvidia offerings. There was like 2% in it by anyones measure. Hell the entire Nvidia 400 series was just a diesel powered cludge of large as ass dies sold at cut down prices to make the range sit up and work in that market. People still bought Nvidia. Lo and behold, a 3 streak winning run didn't get them to 50% market share. Only 1 reason really sticks, blind allegiance to Nvidia. That's the mindset, that's how the rump of the buying public are. My god man I know people that only buy Nvidia, you must know people like that and Im sure everyone here does to.

On a more general note I think what people plugging the morality in buying decisons line are saying is that if you cant get 95% of the nvidia performance for the same money with amd, then buy amd. Take a truly miniscule hit *now* to battle for a better market *tomorrow*. The dawn of an era of epic nvidia shenanigans is really here gentlemen. You buy nvidia for anything less than 1080ti performance and you are handing money to a guy for pushing a certain appendage into your certain waste chute.

This is the crypto distorted market so it's all a moot point anyway.

lol i know that. i often see people said despite how terrible nvidia 400 series are compared to AMD 5k series and yet people only buy nvidia. those who said this did they really aware what happen back in 2009-2011 period? sure the 400 series especially GF100 have terrible power consumption but performance wise they still very competitive. the 480 still end up faster than AMD fastest single GPU at the time. now compared Fermi to AMD Vega that can't even come close to nvidia third fastest GPU on the market right now. suddenly fermi is not that terrible vs AMD Evergreen. on the mid range nvidia is very competitive back then with GTX460. faster yet cheaper than 5830. with overclocking can almost match 5850 performance. to defend themselves AMD have to release 6800 series ahead of 6900 series which is not a norm move for AMD at the time. and there is also issue about support. AMD in general drop support much faster than nvidia. HD4k series for example only supported by AMD roughly three years on the main driver. and while AMD can be very competitive on new/popular games they tend to have issues on others. just look at the recent issues with DX9 based games. and then remember back in 2012 where 7k series have flickering issues on many DX9 based games? gamer did not only play new/triple A games, they play many types of games. and for those that play MMO type of game a lot they have some of weird unspoken rules for over a decade: if you want your games to work without too much issue then but nvidia GPU. we see AMD work a lot with triple A developer but when it comes to MMO type of games their effort is almost none existent. back in 2011-2013 period Square Enix partnered with AMD on several games (Hitman, Tomb Raider, DXHR) but then suddenly on FF A Realm Reborn SE doing partnership with Nvidia instead. i myself was quite surprise back then about it looking how close SE and AMD at the time.

this GPP thingy it will be interesting where it will go. if what nvidia has been doing really is anti competitive then AMD should directly bring this issue to the court.

 

[R_Type]

lol i know that. i often see people said despite how terrible nvidia 400 series are compared to AMD 5k series and yet people only buy nvidia. those who said this did they really aware what happen back in 2009-2011 period? sure the 400 series especially GF100 have terrible power consumption but performance wise they still very competitive. the 480 still end up faster than AMD fastest single GPU at the time. now compared Fermi to AMD Vega that can't even come close to nvidia third fastest GPU on the market right now. suddenly fermi is not that terrible vs AMD Evergreen.

You're comparing now vs then. The whole point is what happened during the 'then', which was a multi year 'then' in which the rump of the market bought nvidia regardless. It's 6 years of solid evidence right there before your eyes. Case closed.

on the mid range nvidia is very competitive back then with GTX460. faster yet cheaper than 5830. with overclocking can almost match 5850 performance

The competition was the 6850 and 6870.There was no reason to buy a 460 ahead of either of those (except for sli I remember the article on here about that) overclocking and pricing included. How does the 5 series come into this? Outdated tech going EOL at that time.

AMD in general drop support much faster than nvidia.

Then I gotta mention the 7970.

just look at the recent issues with DX9 based games. and then remember back in 2012 where 7k series have flickering issues on many DX9 based games?

That's highly selective memory there. Go and look on nvidia forums for weird game issues between driver releases. Spoiler alert: there are some

but when it comes to MMO type of games their effort is almost none existent.

This is about World of Warcraft. I'll give you that it wasn't a good showing. Then again I had to fall back onto a 4890 recently as my main card died. No fps in MW:O, Dota 2, drivers years out of date, but no rendering errors. Guess it can only be luck...

 

[IdiotInCharge]

You're comparing now vs then. The whole point is what happened during the 'then', which was a multi year 'then' in which the rump of the market bought nvidia regardless. It's 6 years of solid evidence right there before your eyes. Case closed.

You're not proving your case here, you're proving your bias- you have to prove that AMD not just had the potentially faster card, but had the better card. Hint: that's exceedingly rare.

The competition was the 6850 and 6870.There was no reason to buy a 460 ahead of either of those (except for sli I remember the article on here about that) overclocking and pricing included. How does the 5 series come into this? Outdated tech going EOL at that time.

So an anecdote: I traded a [faster!] GTX570 for a HD6950 straight up, and put in a second HD6950. The experience was horrible all around, and AMD later got rightly called on their bullshit. Proving how terrible their products were at the time led to GPU reviews (and game reviews in general) moving from an emphasis on frame rates to an emphasis on frame times.

Then I gotta mention the 7970.

Which was hot, loud, and faster for like a week?

That's highly selective memory there. Go and look on nvidia forums for weird game issues between driver releases. Spoiler alert: there are some

And if you were being honest rather than selective yourself, you'd admit that there's a significant and pervasive body of issues behind quips like 'we're waiting for AMD's driver guy to get around to supporting game x that just released' or 'to release a hotfix for what they broke in the last driver release'. Nvidia has had significantly better driver support historically; only in the last few years has AMD made a real, visible effort to match them.

This is about World of Warcraft. I'll give you that it wasn't a good showing. Then again I had to fall back onto a 4890 recently as my main card died. No fps in MW:O, Dota 2, drivers years out of date, but no rendering errors. Guess it can only be luck...

If any card in the last decade or so cannot at least play WoW, it's broke. I cannot imagine using that as a benchmark for anything. My Intel integrated graphics setup in my ultrabooks play WoW. I don't play WoW, so whatever, but I do play League of Legends on occasion, and those iGPUs are certainly capable of playing that game well.

 

[R_Type]

For starters, re read what you're quoting here if you want to get into a trench war, I really don't. The third quote you used is going off on a tangent somewhere. What has the 7970 being hot got to do with its driver support in 2018.

Then there's this

You're not proving your case here, you're proving your bias- you have to prove that AMD not just had the potentially faster card, but had the better card. Hint: that's exceedingly rare.

You told me I had my bias then tacked your own on at the end. After just 32 words, 2 of them 'bias', did you forget what you were talking about?

And then this

"So an anecdote: I traded a [faster!] GTX570 for a HD6950 straight up, and put in a second HD6950. The experience was horrible all around, and AMD later got rightly called on their bullshit. Proving how terrible their products were at the time led to GPU reviews (and game reviews in general) moving from an emphasis on frame rates to an emphasis on frame times."

Where did I even mention making side grades? I didn't even mention the 500 series directly. It's not even remotely what I was on about. I didn't say anythign about getting rid of any nvidia equivalents to amd cards of that era. I even said you'd go nvidia for multi gpu. You actually talk about going from frame rates in multi gpu to frame times without mentioning the work the [H] did, the very site your posting this jumble of words on. If you're not going to try with what you're saying then neither am I basically. Ignoring, good day to you, good bye.

 

[IdiotInCharge]

I'd keep the 'discussion' going, but since you seem to go from zero to nuclear at the first sight of disagreement, I'll just say glad to miss you!

 

[Ranulfo]

If any card in the last decade or so cannot at least play WoW, it's broke. I cannot imagine using that as a benchmark for anything. My Intel integrated graphics setup in my ultrabooks play WoW. I don't play WoW, so whatever,

Then I wouldn't speculate on WoW performance if I were you. The game has run fine for most on AMD cards for years but its long been clear that Blizz has favored intel and nvidia for whatever reasons. Except for Starcraft2, which has run like dog shit when pushed to the unit limit on pretty much everything since it was released in 2010. WoW can be played on igpus but they won't run well at all beyond solo play.

WoW had a graphics revamp/system change as it were in MoP expansion where AMD cards gained performance in general. The game has run worse in Legion on most cards and supposedly the BfA expansion due later this year will have improved dx11 support and actual dx12 support. We'll see, but I may actually take the time in the alpha and beta to test it on my several systems. On top of that Blizzard a couple of months ago put out a patch that killed almost everyone's fps in the game and it took them two weeks to fix for most people. The irony there was my FX system with a rx 480 actually did better there than people with i7's/Ryzen/1080ti's for some esoteric reason. Point being, WoW is not so stable these days on a number of fronts. In a raid, your igpu will be lucky to hit 5fps. 5 man dungeon, 15fps. Low settings.

 

[IdiotInCharge]

Then I wouldn't speculate on WoW performance if I were you. The game has run fine for most on AMD cards for years but its long been clear that Blizz has favored intel and nvidia for whatever reasons.

'Whatever reasons' very likely includes what their customer base actually uses. I feel absolutely fine speculating on that.

 

[joyzbuzz]

Nvidia is looking at the minigun AMD is likely to bring to the knife fight in 2019 and is busy sandbagging and moating the joint.

A modular scalable gaming optimized architecture vs a monolithic architecture on 7nm provides, what, a Zen like 30 to 40 percent cost to manufacture advantage? Maybe more if AMD only needs one die vs Nvidia's 3 to cover the GPU market segments.

AMD can regain a lot of market share with that kind of pricing leverage.

 

[N4CR]

I

Nvidia is looking at the minigun AMD is likely to bring to the knife fight in 2019 and is busy sandbagging and moating the joint.

A modular scalable gaming optimized architecture vs a monolithic architecture on 7nm provides, what, a Zen like 30 to 40 percent cost to manufacture advantage? Maybe more if AMD only needs one die vs Nvidia's 3 to cover the GPU market segments.

AMD can regain a lot of market share with that kind of pricing leverage.

I Hope for AMDs sake they will achieve this. Been awfully quiet, just like before Ryzen. Entertaining as Raja is he was a fuck up and with him leaving before navi, says enough.

 

[Lakados]

Nvidia is looking at the minigun AMD is likely to bring to the knife fight in 2019 and is busy sandbagging and moating the joint.

A modular scalable gaming optimized architecture vs a monolithic architecture on 7nm provides, what, a Zen like 30 to 40 percent cost to manufacture advantage? Maybe more if AMD only needs one die vs Nvidia's 3 to cover the GPU market segments.

AMD can regain a lot of market share with that kind of pricing leverage.

Hopefully AMD's minigun isn't as hot, or loud, and does better than 15s burst.
I hate nVidia's recent business practices but I can fit a 1080TI in mITX form factor with out worrying about heat and power issues. I really really want AMD to step up to plate in 2019.