Getting 7 to work is definitely the intention. If it does, I'll report back with the problems/solutions to getting there. And if it doesn't, I guess it's the start of a long process of trying to make 10 as best I can. I'll try to remember to get a pic of the build. I have to say though, it'll probably be inept compared to the standards of what I've seen here in the case forum. I'll be thrilled if I can just get the thing working the way I want. Things like optimal cable management? Hmmm. wouldn't know where to start. But I have time to watch videos before the parts get here.
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First new build in 11 years... Will this work?
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Getting 7 to work is definitely the intention. If it does, I'll report back with the problems/solutions to getting there. And if it doesn't, I guess it's the start of a long process of trying to make 10 as best I can. I'll try to remember to get a pic of the build. I have to say though, it'll probably be inept compared to the standards of what I've seen here in the case forum. I'll be thrilled if I can just get the thing working the way I want. Things like optimal cable management? Hmmm. wouldn't know where to start. But I have time to watch videos before the parts get here.
Sometimes, true. but that's a general philosophical perspective that doesn't take into account of the specifics of a given situation - and worse, I hear that sentiment often used to advocate acceptance for changes for the worse. Some change is great, some is not. In this case, it's not some vague notion of "the past," it's superior functionality and pleasing aesthetics for something I spend hours a day using. That matters.
But Oprah is our queen, so there's that, and heaven knows I'd feel better about embracing all sorts of change if I had her billions.
The answer to the thread title is a big yes. As you can see, the build got delayed much longer than expected, but once I got the parts, everything went smoothly and it's been up and running for over a month now, so I thought I'd say thanks to those who helped with advice and give an update on it in case anyone else is curious about using Windows 7 on the recent Intels. I can confirm that with my setup, Win 7 works perfectly with Coffee Lake. It's really not that difficult to do. If you have a Z370 motherboard and a video card, all you need to do is use the MSI tool to slipstream USB drivers into the OS installer on a bootable flash drive. Boards with other chipsets may work, but I've read mixed accounts about that.
The Cooler Master hyper 212 is kind of a pain to install, mostly because the procedure and parts are unclear. They've changed the standoffs from what you see in the youtube videos. But the performance has been excellent. Fan is almost silent, and when encoding h264 video at 100% cpu the core temps are about 42 C (with an open case). Using Arctic MX-4.
The Corsair case is excellent -- with 2 nagging exceptions: The HDD ventilation doesn't seem adequate if you have more than 2 drives. 3/4 of the entire top is an open vent with no dust filter. I think I'll just cover it, and I only have 2 drives at this point.
Is it much faster than my E6750? Well, yeah. A sample 1080p video encoded with ffmpeg h264 took 27:03 on the old system, and 3:22 on the i5-8400. That's the ideal scenario because it will use all 6 cores at 100%. h265, only uses about 60%. I'm a little disappointed with some software though. With Photoshop every operation is faster of course, but some of them use all the cores while a few use only one. The newer versions of PS are better at core utilization but the interface is worse and often requires 2 or 3 more clicks for common procedures, won't remember the last file save location etc. PT-gui is the same: newer version = faster, but the interface takes much more time and the stitching is of lower quality. Frustrating that hardware gets better and software gets worse.
The 32gb of RAM is like being freed from a prison. I'm shocked at how much RAM is used when it's actually available to the OS. Photoshop, Nikon NXD and Firefox eat it like crazy, then there's the PS scratch disk that grows fast on the Ramdisk. All this stuff would otherwise be swapped to a pagefile/scratchdisk on the SSD. I may eventually upgrade to 64gb
Some issues:
The video card may eventually get upgraded. I'm running a 2nd monitor on its VGA output, and at 60hz text is fuzzy. When I go to 75hz it gets sharp, but supposedly the monitor, a Dell P1914S, only supports 60hz. I wonder if I'm hurting anything by running it at 75hz. I'm using the latest NVIDIA drivers. The same monitor worked fine at 60hz VGA on my last card. Both monitors accept VGA, DP, & DVI but the card is VGA, HDMI & DVI. I wonder if it's worth it to try a converter. I guess I'll leave it at 75hz unless there's a problem.
When I first got into the BIOS I noticed that the CPU frequency was always at 3800mhz. I thought this was odd since the OS wasn't even installed and the system wasn't doing anything. I played around with settings and finally tried disabling "intel turbo boost technology" and the CPU frequency dropped to 2800mhz which is where I thought it was supposed to be. Is this the correct setting? I'm not sure why it would be set so that it runs so high by default. And then there's "Enhanced Multi-Core Performance"?
A pic from before I added the hard drives
The Cooler Master hyper 212 is kind of a pain to install, mostly because the procedure and parts are unclear. They've changed the standoffs from what you see in the youtube videos. But the performance has been excellent. Fan is almost silent, and when encoding h264 video at 100% cpu the core temps are about 42 C (with an open case). Using Arctic MX-4.
The Corsair case is excellent -- with 2 nagging exceptions: The HDD ventilation doesn't seem adequate if you have more than 2 drives. 3/4 of the entire top is an open vent with no dust filter. I think I'll just cover it, and I only have 2 drives at this point.
Is it much faster than my E6750? Well, yeah. A sample 1080p video encoded with ffmpeg h264 took 27:03 on the old system, and 3:22 on the i5-8400. That's the ideal scenario because it will use all 6 cores at 100%. h265, only uses about 60%. I'm a little disappointed with some software though. With Photoshop every operation is faster of course, but some of them use all the cores while a few use only one. The newer versions of PS are better at core utilization but the interface is worse and often requires 2 or 3 more clicks for common procedures, won't remember the last file save location etc. PT-gui is the same: newer version = faster, but the interface takes much more time and the stitching is of lower quality. Frustrating that hardware gets better and software gets worse.
The 32gb of RAM is like being freed from a prison. I'm shocked at how much RAM is used when it's actually available to the OS. Photoshop, Nikon NXD and Firefox eat it like crazy, then there's the PS scratch disk that grows fast on the Ramdisk. All this stuff would otherwise be swapped to a pagefile/scratchdisk on the SSD. I may eventually upgrade to 64gb
Some issues:
The video card may eventually get upgraded. I'm running a 2nd monitor on its VGA output, and at 60hz text is fuzzy. When I go to 75hz it gets sharp, but supposedly the monitor, a Dell P1914S, only supports 60hz. I wonder if I'm hurting anything by running it at 75hz. I'm using the latest NVIDIA drivers. The same monitor worked fine at 60hz VGA on my last card. Both monitors accept VGA, DP, & DVI but the card is VGA, HDMI & DVI. I wonder if it's worth it to try a converter. I guess I'll leave it at 75hz unless there's a problem.
When I first got into the BIOS I noticed that the CPU frequency was always at 3800mhz. I thought this was odd since the OS wasn't even installed and the system wasn't doing anything. I played around with settings and finally tried disabling "intel turbo boost technology" and the CPU frequency dropped to 2800mhz which is where I thought it was supposed to be. Is this the correct setting? I'm not sure why it would be set so that it runs so high by default. And then there's "Enhanced Multi-Core Performance"?
A pic from before I added the hard drives
engiNURD
Fully [H]
- Joined
- Jul 17, 2006
- Messages
- 21,828
You can still get updates for Win7, you just need a patch.
Wow, thats an old monitor. If it runs at 75hz, i guess its fine. if not, you'll just be upgrading your monitor sooner rather than later.
you should enable turbo. also, check your c-states - they should be enabled.
Thanks for the pic!
Wow, thats an old monitor. If it runs at 75hz, i guess its fine. if not, you'll just be upgrading your monitor sooner rather than later.
you should enable turbo. also, check your c-states - they should be enabled.
Thanks for the pic!
I actually got that monitor refurbed last year because I like the 4:3 ratio and pixel pitch since it's used mostly for text and file organization and doesn't take up a lot of room on the desk.
I'll experiment some more with the bios next time I reboot and have enough time. With turbo enabled, is it really supposed to show 3800 without even the OS loaded? I thought it was just kind of an overclock on demand. Since this is a non-K processor, does turbo really apply to the 8400?
I'll experiment some more with the bios next time I reboot and have enough time. With turbo enabled, is it really supposed to show 3800 without even the OS loaded? I thought it was just kind of an overclock on demand. Since this is a non-K processor, does turbo really apply to the 8400?
TheFlayedMan
Limp Gawd
- Joined
- May 29, 2015
- Messages
- 410
I think it will boost up to 3.8Ghz with sufficient cooling
Didn’t read all the posts so sorry if it was covered, but You can find mobos to support 2 monitors and more now so that gpu isn’t needed and the intel gfx is sufficient.
If you want the gfx for photoshop support, I don’t have experience to say for sure, but my gut says the 710 is going to be disappointing.
Also for all all the sneaky ads I’ve been getting in windows 10, I’m starting to sympathize with windows 7/8 hold outs.
If you want the gfx for photoshop support, I don’t have experience to say for sure, but my gut says the 710 is going to be disappointing.
Also for all all the sneaky ads I’ve been getting in windows 10, I’m starting to sympathize with windows 7/8 hold outs.
Nice-looking build. Although I have to wonder, "Why a cheapo discrete GPU which may be slower and weaker than your CPU's integrated Intel iGPU?" You see, content creeation apps such as those that you're planning to run rely heavily on the GPU's available memory throughput. In the case of that GT 710, the card that you chose actually has a memory throughput that's actually MUCH lower (only 14.4 GB/s) than that of your system's RAM (38.4 GB/s)! That mismatch would drag down the performance of the entire system, even in apps that make no use whatsoever of the discrete GPU - that is, the performance would be significantly slower than the sum of its other parts outside of the GPU is capable of. In other words, your system, although faster overall than your old system, is substantially slower than the average system with the exact same CPU and system RAM actually delivers.
The above, however, assumes that you'd be running Windows 10. But since you're running Windows 7 (which now has only eight months left before its support goes EOL - after January 13, 2020, you will not receive any more security patches for that OS, leaving your system completely vulnerable to any new spyware and malware that pops up after that date), then I can understand you getting a relatively archaic GPU.
If this were my build, I would not have chosen the GT 710 at all. In fact, if I didn't have enough room in my total system budget for a GPU that's of at least GTX 1050 Ti level, then I would have just omitted a discrete GPU altogether and just stuck with the Intel iGPU.
And speaking of the iGPU, in my Premiere Pro rendering tests the one in my 7th-generation i7-7700 is only slightly slower than a GT 730 (the latter with 384 CUDA cores and GDDR5 RAM at that!). The GT 710 is only half of a GT 730 but with the exact same fully-enabled (64-bit single-channel, with DDR3 {14.4 GB/s} or GDDR5 {40.1 GB/s} support) memory controller. iGPUs have come a long way, but still have a ways to go before they'll catch up to even current midrange GPU levels of performance.
And to answer the last sentence of the post that I quoted directly:
The Turbo Boost also applies to even non-K CPUs. The maximum sustainable Turbo speed depends on your CPU and case cooling. If your cooling is good enough, you should be able to sustain its maximum all-core Turbo speed of 3.8 GHz.
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The main goal with the build was to get it working with Windows 7, which means that I can't use the onboard video - no drivers. So far this card has been fine for anything I've asked it to do except for the 60/75hz oddity with the vga connected monitor. I only spent $38 on the GPU, so I'm not out much if I want to upgrade at any time (which I will consider).
As for the updates/support thing, I've run Windows 3.1, 95, ME, 2000, XP & 7, and have never been in a habit of getting regular Win updates. In fact I never once updated XP since it was the FCKGW version. I've run an AV maybe 25% of the time. And in all those years I have never gotten a virus. Not having Microsoft "support" is is irrelevant for me because I discovered in 2017 that updates were breaking the interface in important ways and creating other problems, so I stopped even considering updates - and I backup important data. That said, I'll quote myself from post #8: "Bottom line: I'd rather reinstall Windows 7 ten times a year after virus infections than spend that year staring at Win 10." For anyone who missed it earlier in the thread, post #39 covers why I prefer Win 7 so strongly.
As for the updates/support thing, I've run Windows 3.1, 95, ME, 2000, XP & 7, and have never been in a habit of getting regular Win updates. In fact I never once updated XP since it was the FCKGW version. I've run an AV maybe 25% of the time. And in all those years I have never gotten a virus. Not having Microsoft "support" is is irrelevant for me because I discovered in 2017 that updates were breaking the interface in important ways and creating other problems, so I stopped even considering updates - and I backup important data. That said, I'll quote myself from post #8: "Bottom line: I'd rather reinstall Windows 7 ten times a year after virus infections than spend that year staring at Win 10." For anyone who missed it earlier in the thread, post #39 covers why I prefer Win 7 so strongly.
That was not the case at all with a friend of mine:
Just after his Windows XP reached end of support, he immediately got hit by tons of spyware even though he had an antivirus app. Problem is, the publisher of that antivirus app had ceased support and updates completely for that OS immediately following the end of OS support. This could have potentially wiped out his entire gross total wealth completely if he didn't upgrade his hardware and software to something more modern.
So, I'd advise that you be careful if you're going to stick with that OS.
By the way, I am already running Windows 10 myself - if only because of performance. Windows 7 does not take full advantage of USB 3.0 at all. In fact, even with a Windows 7-compatible driver for USB 3.0, its maximum sequential read and write speeds on that OS are capped to only about half of what the interface itself is really capable of.