Finally: moving from mechanical to SSD

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SBMongoos

[H]ard|Gawd
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Jul 22, 2001
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Running Win7 and Win10 (swap-able drive bay). Win7 is using a Seagate Hybird HDD and Win10 a Seagate HDD. I'm using a Gigabyte ep45ud3r motherboard and have been overclocking to 3.83Ghz since day one. Been watching the SSD prices drop and looking to move to a Samsung Evo 850 500Gb SSD.

I'm wondering what changes I'll need to make in the BIOS and in either OS to complete. I prefer to clone the drive and not build from scratch. Both OS's are are current with OS updates. I'm using BIOS F12 on the motherboard.

Thanks in advance..
 
No BIOS changes needed.

Only thing I change in the OS is to disable indexing and hibernation.

I also disable system restore, but I do that on all my machines.

The Samsung software will clone it over without any problem.

IF you are planning on moving both OSes over to the SSD, I don't think that will work right off the bat. You would need to change the bootloader to look at the same physical drive and a different partition for whichever OS you move over second.
 
cyclone3d said:
No BIOS changes needed.

Only thing I change in the OS is to disable indexing and hibernation.

I also disable system restore, but I do that on all my machines.

The Samsung software will clone it over without any problem.

IF you are planning on moving both OSes over to the SSD, I don't think that will work right off the bat. You would need to change the bootloader to look at the same physical drive and a different partition for whichever OS you move over second.
Click to expand...

You turn off Windows System Restore before the cloning process and then re-enable once done or you simply disable period?

I have an Icy Dock with three drive bays. So, one HDD has Win7 and another HDD has Win10. What my plan will be is to migrate Win10 only (after thinking about this) as I want to move to Win10 anyway. So, I shutdown and pull the HDD for Win7 and and put in the one for Win10 into the slot where the Win7 HDD came out using the same SATA connection.

Won't I need to enable ACHI and other settings? Thought this would need to be done and some OS hack since I'm making this change on an existing system and not a fresh install.
 
Changing ACHI and similar settings is often a no more boot change if done to an existing OS install. Don't change anything at first. Move the OS to the new drive and make sure it boots and works OK. Then start changing BIOS settings. That way, if it won't boot, you know what to change back.

Make sure things like auto defrag are turned off. Win 7 and newer normally handle SSDs correctly during the OS install but since this is a transplant, best to check.
 
If it's a GPT install there could be troubles. I had a situation where I did a GPT install on one drive, pulled it out and put in another and did a GPT install on the second drive. When I put the original drive back in it wouldn't boot without doing a startup repair.

But this GPT issue might depend on the motherboard. When the board hands off the boot process to the drive it has to be tied properly to Windows Boot Manager.
 
Let me see if I have this clear.

  • Clone my Win10 HDD to the new SSD
  • Install it
  • Boot up and see if all seems normal when I login
  • Make changes in the BIOS for SSD performance (ACHI, etc)
    • Only do one change then test it in the OS (seems like a slow process)
 
SBMongoos said:
Let me see if I have this clear.

  • Clone my Win10 HDD to the new SSD
  • Install it
  • Boot up and see if all seems normal when I login
  • Make changes in the BIOS for SSD performance (ACHI, etc)
    • Only do one change then test it in the OS (seems like a slow process)
Click to expand...
I'm quite sure the mb bios has to be set to AHCI before windows is installed/cloned otherwise the boot up will fail. There are procedures to change from ide->AHCI after windows is installed, something like this here.
 
Hmm...given the various responses maybe it's best to start over. Always fun, eh. I only have MS Office installed with some config items in Outlook. Similar issue applies though as I'm not clear on what to enable in the BIOS for the SSD. Seems there is more than ACHI to enable.
 
So, short version is:
  • Set BIOS to ACHI (no other changes)
  • Install SSD
  • Install Win 10 Pro
  • Setup/config/install software
  • Clone HD to SSD (Been using Acronis for years)
  • Set BIOS to ACHI
  • Install SSD
  • Install any additional software
Is ACHI set to each SATA port or the whole system? I assume you don't want to run a HDD with ACHI and only a SSD.
 
So, to be clear the only changes needed for an SSD are in the BIOS and no hacks are needed for Windows 10 since it's already installed on an HDD and running IDE (not ACHI).
 
First plan for fresh install appears fine.

The cloning plan has a potential problem, because you're trying to add the AHCI driver to Windows after flipping the BIOS switch. That can work (Safe Mode hack I linked above does this), but you might want to add the driver before changing the BIOS. Not a showstopper, but something to be aware of.
 
cyclone3d said:
Only thing I change in the OS is to disable indexing and hibernation.
Click to expand...

People still bother disabling things like indexing and SuperFetch with SSDs? Do people ever come to realize that both of those types of operations - indexing the contents of files on the storage and caching files that have been used recently in RAM - are both read-only operations that have zero effect on the lifespan of a solid state storage device, right?

Right?

SSDs have limited lifespans based on the write usage aka you can only write to the cells so many times before they'll fail but this is something that most everyone knows nowadays, especially regulars of the [H] and many other tech related sites. Still, those type of operations are read only and you can do that forever (ok, so not actually forever but it's simply a non-issue, writes are).

No matter how fast SSDs get they still pale in comparison to what RAM is capable of in terms of read operations, and write operations as well so the indexing operations - while they do store some data on the drive after the indexing is done still has the operational index data (which is created during the process) cached in RAM with SuperFetch just like most anything else that gets read into RAM from the storage device. You can verify all that happening using RAMMap yourself if you're so inclined.

I tend to agree with the other suggestion for disabling System Restore since I myself use True Image - or I did, I use OSX now and while it's available for OSX too I'm not going to bother at the moment - and do my own backups but for some folks it can actually help them if they screw something up aka the casual user who makes a booboo and needs to roll it back just a bit when they don't use full blown regular backup software with some automation or even manually when needed.

The hibernation suggestion is also a decent one if it's never actually used - most laptops just go into sleep/standby mode by default when you close the lid, and I think Windows 10 has even the power button set to put the machine in sleep/standby with a press instead of shutting down.

And a step further: as for the page file being disabled with an SSD, it's still not a recommended course of action, not by Microsoft, or Samsung, or most any other company that deals with data storage or the operating systems making use of said storage. I can see where a lot of folk will think it's a good/great idea but really, after tweaking Windows operating systems in every way, shape, form, manner, or discipline possible for 30 years now I finally gave up all that bullshit and just used it with hardly a tweak in sight for the past few years (Windows 7) and guess what? It works just fine, seriously, and I realized that if you leave the damned OS alone and let it do its job by design aka the way it was meant to operate it actually does the job very well.

YMMV, as is always the situation but honestly I think the days of tweaking this, that, and everything in between are fading pretty fast.

Not as fast as pure RAM, but fast. ;)
 
Tiberian said:
YMMV, as is always the situation but honestly I think the days of tweaking this, that, and everything in between are fading pretty fast.
Click to expand...

Are you essentially saying just enable ACHI? I get your points above. I thought there were some gains by a couple of tweaks in the BIOS when installing an SSD.

On another note: currently I put my swap file on a another HDD in my system. But, once the SSD is installed I would certainly think it would make sense to move it the SSD (C:\)

I've added two screenshots of my BIOS where adjustments might be considered. Thought I had a third screen but apparently not.

20160423_090542.jpg
20160423_090605.jpg
 
AHCI is a must, period, because without it you won't get NCQ support and the drive will be slow as molasses (or at least seem awfully slower compared to what it's capable of, especially in benchmarks). I was reading an "SSD optimization guide" earlier today and I think I agreed with maybe two of the dozen or so things they suggest(ed) people do with their SSD setups and that was AHCI (it's actually AHCI, not ACHI but it's a common error, no worries) and disabling hibernation (if you never EVER intend to make use of it because if you don't use it regularly - like multiple times a week or whatever - then there's basically no point in it over using sleep/standby which offer fast restoration anyway (and even faster with an SSD too).

My basic checklist is:

- buy SSD

- hook it up to the already working installation machine and check SSD for potential errors when first hooked up (HDTune, etc)

- do a decent benchmark on it or two (to confirm it's working up to spec or damned close to it in terms of not only the drive itself but the supporting hardware, controller, drivers, OS, etc)

- do an Enhanced Secure SSD wipe on it (a lot of people will balk at this suggestion but I do it myself because it erases every cell on the drive simultaneously in a matter of seconds and gives me 100% assurance that the drive is truly "factory fresh - it sends a voltage pulse to every cell totally wiping out the contents of the entire drive at once, not a traditional "format" obviously and it uses 1 single write cycle to do it so it's not like it hurts the drive at all)

- either do a clean install (always my recommendation to be honest) or restore an image from whatever installation you've got working on the hard drive already (what most people do and why many SSDs come with a stripped down version of Acronis True Image to get it done, or some other disk cloning tool)

- once the OS is installed I will probably do another benchmark or two and make sure it's still performing as expected, and I may make some mods to the power configuration of my machine (adjusting the power profile to keep the drive working in a more high performance nature, that's a long topic that I can't get into right now but it does help on some platforms)

Least that's my process, for you I'd say things would be easier to install it, verify the AHCI is working, do a benchmark on it and see that it's working as expected, then install/clone the working OS to it and run with it. ;)

In your second pic, at the top, change the SATA control mode to AHCI (least that's where that option should be) --- BUT BUT BUT realize if you do that now it'll cause your current installation to choke and die and BSOD before getting Windows loaded.

So, if that's how things are currently configured on your working installation, that's already contributing to a slower operation platform anyway - ATA/IDE mode disables NCQ even with hard drives and it can cripple performance pretty drastically depending on what you're doing, even more so with SSDs (compared to how they perform when everything is working properly).

But definitely, if you do a new clean install, make sure you always leave AHCI enabled not only during the installation but in daily use as well. It matters, that much, definitely.

And the final tip: if you have multiple drives in your system, put a static page file (about 1-2GB in size) on every one of them because it'll help with overall system performance. The reason? Because no matter how hard drives and SSDs become, they are still limited to reading or writing at one time, they can't do both but the SATA controllers (when multiple drives are attached) can handle input and output simultaneously.

If the system needs to page some data (it does happen, even if you disable the page file, honestly, Windows will create a 128MB page file for "safe keeping") then when that happens that given drive is going to be tied up - if you have a page file on multiple drives, and one drive is busy with a read/write operation doing something else, the OS can make use of the page file(s) on other drives simultaneously.

It just makes things work smoother overall - even with the fastest SSDs out today every little bit helps.
 
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I generally agree with Tiberian on tweaking Windows here.

System Restore can be useful for quick recovery at the OS, program or file (previous versions) level. You can configure the maximum restore space.

I find hibernation to be more of a compromise, because the file is so damned big. That said, I believe hibernation is the best response when the battery goes critical. Shutting down safely isn't nearly as good as keeping all of your programs (read "work"!) as you left it. In addition, I've tried to shut down with low battery, only to have Windows say, "I'll do that just as soon as I finish these updates." Then the battery died first, of course. (One freaking IF statement, Microsoft! One IF!!!)
 
Tiberian said:
A
In your second pic, at the top, change the SATA control mode to AHCI (least that's where that option should be) --- BUT BUT BUT realize if you do that now it'll cause your current installation to choke and die and BSOD before getting Windows loaded.

And the final tip: if you have multiple drives in your system, put a static page file (about 1-2GB in size) on every one of them because it'll help with overall system performance. The reason? Because no matter how hard drives and SSDs become, they are still limited to reading or writing at one time, they can't do both but the SATA controllers (when multiple drives are attached) can handle input and output simultaneously.
Click to expand...

AHCI - So I set the BIOS to AHCI but how will it effect my secondary internal HDD? This is for file storage/data backups. I assume no impact but I don't know. Just checking.

Pagefiles - how will this effect performance if the OS is using a SSD and the secondary internal is a HDD? Won't the HDD slow it down?
 
AHCI will only cause problems for an operating system during the loading process - if the OS was installed without AHCI enabled, enabling it will cause it to bork during the load process. It is possible to do some Registry edits to get AHCI working on a non-AHCI enabled installation but I won't get into all that, there are other sources for that procedure and it's not particularly simple to do and can hose an install if you're not careful.

As for page files, if you have ample RAM the actual necessity for paging will be drastically reduced overall but that is not saying "ok, I have a metric shitload of RAM here, I don't need a page file so I'm disabling it..." because in some instances that can cause rather severe resource issues even on the best hardware configs. Windows and most other modern OSes are designed since almost day one to have a virtual memory subsystem in place and part of that - but not the entirety of it - is a page file, just one component in that subsystem, and it matters more often than most people realize for performance considerations. Just turning it off/disabling it is not always the best solution or even close to it.

Having said that the suggestion for multiple page files, one per physical drive regardless of whether it's a HDD or an SSD, is still one I always make. A silly analogy would be some guy (the main operating system drive) moving boxes (data) up and down a set of stairs - he's either going up (reading) or going down (writing) but he can't do both at the same time. Now, add a second guy or third or whatever to the mix (the additional page file or files) and now you've got multiple possibilities to move stuff (aka data) around more efficiently keeping things moving along smoothly.

I did say it was a silly analogy. ;)

The speed difference won't be relevant - what matters most is the parallel style operation of Windows being able to access multiple drives simultaneously when necessary. Even with NCQ you're still limited one basic operation per drive at any given time: you're either reading or writing, but not both, not on a single storage device. But multiple devices operating simultaneously means everything happens with vastly increased efficiency.
 
Got the Samsung EVO 850 500Gb. Is it worth using the Samsung Magician to update the F/W, etc? What do you use to do the Enhanced Secure SSD wipe?

Which to do, GPT or MBR? Can it be changed?

I don't really want to start over but I know the optimal way is to do a fresh install of Windows 10 on the SSD so that's going to be my path. I don't have that much setup or tweaked yet.
 
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Yikes...my fonts in Win10 look bad. Some are bold, some are not...some are fuzzy. WTH.
 
Yep.... actually scored a Samsung 850 EVO 500Gb as doing some labor for someone.
 
SBMongoos said:
AHCI - So I set the BIOS to AHCI but how will it effect my secondary internal HDD? This is for file storage/data backups. I assume no impact but I don't know. Just checking.

Pagefiles - how will this effect performance if the OS is using a SSD and the secondary internal is a HDD? Won't the HDD slow it down?
Click to expand...

Your worrying is unnecessary.
Enabling AHCI is a pretty big change, Windows will detect the AHCI controller portion and possibly re-detect your existing drives. Any unique identifiers or hardcoded paths to disc volumes might break. Some software might behave oddly when it will try to pick up where it left and, alas, no drive.
So, just try enabling AHCI right now. Let Windows boot, detect stuff and install. Reboot religiously after each driver change Windows makes.
Run some benchmarks like crystaldiskmark to see if performance changed.
Insert SSD into system.
Check if your regular Windows still boots and detects the SSD properly. Reboot.
Now do the cloning.
Remove old drive and let the SSD copy boot itself and reconfigure itself for optimal use of the new drive.
Services wise, you don't have to do anything, maybe disable defragmentation software if you have any.
C:\Windows\Media\tada.wav.

SBMongoos said:
Yikes...my fonts in Win10 look bad. Some are bold, some are not...some are fuzzy. WTH.
Click to expand...
Sounds like a compatibility mode run. You might be missing OS updates.
 
AHCI may force you to reinstall Windows is the only thing I can say on this. Mine always defaults to RAID and has an annoying message when I first boot up on my laptop, forcing me to resinstall Windows if it ever occurs. With your cloning, you should be able to handle that much easier, just be aware any BIOS updates will likely revert back to whatever the initial option was.
 
A while back I opted to do a fresh install of Windows 10 on a new SSD.


Edit: Below was solved. There's service running from AMD to check drivers that I disabled. Sleep seems to work fine now.

However, I'm someone who likes to put the PC into sleep mode. But, when I come back to my PC it's always off instead of in sleep. Apparently this is some sort of driver issue?
 
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