HardOCP News
[H] News
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The results of a new study proves that Canadians, when compared to the rest of the world, have the same low opinion of the music industry as the rest of us. As if there were any doubt. 
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File Sharing Has Become the New Normal in Canada
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DeftonesXP
Weaksauce
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I don't think so, but there were rumors at the end of the year 2000 (not sure about the year). In a few months, the price of blank CDs went up almost 50% in small cities because of the very high demand ... then back to normal a few months later because it never went into effect.
I might be wrong, but you can take a look at newegg.com and newegg.ca, blank media is almost the same price (with change rate).
Steve, I'm pretty surprised to think your opinions of the music industry reflect the sentiments of your viewership. I work in the industry and no matter how you look at it, if you are allowing others to take and freely distribute copyrighted works you can replace the word "sharing" with "stealing" in that case.
Peer to peer file sharing in itself isn't an issue, the problem is when you take works that are copyrighted and freely distribute them (not just music, but software, games, etc...) as if that were OK. I think this topic is newsworthy but disagree with the views that some feel only the "Major" labels benefit from legal downloads. It isn't true. Not every artist wants to give away work for free, some do, and that is their prerogative.
Peer to peer file sharing in itself isn't an issue, the problem is when you take works that are copyrighted and freely distribute them (not just music, but software, games, etc...) as if that were OK. I think this topic is newsworthy but disagree with the views that some feel only the "Major" labels benefit from legal downloads. It isn't true. Not every artist wants to give away work for free, some do, and that is their prerogative.
There is no Tax on blank media in Canada, but there is a levy. The difference being that a levy is not collected by the government, instead it is collected by the CPCC (Canadian Private Copying collective). This has actually been in place since 1999.
It is my understanding that this same thing has been law, in the US, since 1994.
It is my understanding that this same thing has been law, in the US, since 1994.
For the most part, people don't have a problem giving to the artists. They have a problem giving to the greedy labels who have a problem giving to the artists. Steve's opinion on the matter is actually pretty accurate. Most people can't stand the RIAA simply because of the bully tactics that they employ.
Real Simple,
If consumers feel it's worth a purchase, they will buy it.
Do they show up to the concerts? Do they purchase the T-shirts?
Maybe the music industry has inflated the costs of a CD dramatically over the years?
Why not cell CD's for $1, it becoming more then obvious that most consumers don't put a lot of real value into them.
Would it be a real tragedy if a really sucsesful musician didn't make millions. Or had to hit the road in order to make the real money?
I don't think so.
If consumers feel it's worth a purchase, they will buy it.
Do they show up to the concerts? Do they purchase the T-shirts?
Maybe the music industry has inflated the costs of a CD dramatically over the years?
Why not cell CD's for $1, it becoming more then obvious that most consumers don't put a lot of real value into them.
Would it be a real tragedy if a really sucsesful musician didn't make millions. Or had to hit the road in order to make the real money?
I don't think so.
Remember that Artists and Labels both agree about how much / whom and when both parties get paid. Both sides have sets of lawyers who take care of that. To say that the artists don't agree to this at contract signing is naive...(And this is coming from an artists' perspective).
Just like if I feel like I want a Big Mac at McDonalds I pay for it... If I were to just take randomly at a grocery it would be called stealing and you can get prosecuted for that.
We aren't talking about a physical "CD" itself...we are talking about a product, its creative copyright that people are buying (unless given away for free)... CD's are dead, agreed.
You are under some sort of assumption that every artist out there is just making a killing on CD sales... they aren't... and I agree people need to work for money, and sometimes that involves travel.
Everyone is certainly entitled to their own opinion.
It all boils down to the old saying "Just because you can, doesn't mean you should"... if people want to steal then that is on them.... just depends on the price one is willing to put on integrity.
And to say that just because the contract is signed by both parties, it is fair compensation, is even more naive.
RedStarSQD
Limp Gawd
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"The music industry created a loophole in Canadian copyright laws when it asked for a levy on blank audio media. These $0.21 to $0.24 levies on blank media raised millions of dollars for music publishers, but also legalized copying in the digital age, to the consternation of the music industry.[2] Canadian courts have ruled that consumers have the right to copy any recording from the original copy even those they do not personally own. This consumer right has been extended by the courts to include peer-to-peer downloads.[3]"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_copyright_law
This is the way i have understood it to work for quite sometime now. If it is no longer valid...then someone needs to tell us canadians
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_copyright_law
This is the way i have understood it to work for quite sometime now. If it is no longer valid...then someone needs to tell us canadians
No one forces anyone to give up publishing.
That still doesn't make it a valid justification.
People pirate because it's easy/convenient and free. You can make up all sorts arguments to try to justify what you're doing but that's the bottom line. People use the 'if it's good i'll pay' argument all the time, but i'm willing to bet that very few of those people go beyond just saying it. Tbh I think it has a lot more to do with convenience too. How often are you really going to think "i need to go to the store and buy this game" when you're already sitting there playing it? Most people don't give enough shit's to do anymore than just thinking about it, and you've got mob mentality assumptions on top of that.
Like when radiohead recently threw an album out there for free download, and you could 'donate'. I don't remember the exact average donation, but the # of people who gave anything was laughable.
Anyhow, I know people are pretty much going to do it no matter what anyway, and the affected companies / people just need to adapt to better compete w/ it. But being a person that makes a living off creative work myself, I couldn't help feel like I'm kicking someone in the nuts if I stole their work, regardless of how shitty their employment contract may be.
No, and I didn't say otherwise.
How this relates to how record labels enter unfair contracts with musicians, I don't know...
Who is to decide what is fair and what isn't? So what you are saying then is it is OK for the consumer to decide whether or not the contracts between the artist and label is OK or not? Being a consumer myself I certainly will decide whether or not I feel like something is worth the cost. If it isn't worth it to me, I won't pay for it. If it is, I will purchase the item. But it isn't up to me to decide the contracts between two 3rd parties.
We each come to our own conclusion on this. The majority of people I've talked to feel that typical contracts with the recording industry are unfair.
I don't know what you mean by "OK". Obviously the consumer has little control over the legality of a contract, if that's what you're asking.
Legality and fairness are two orthogonal concepts. What a bizarre world it would be if everything legal was automagically fair as well.
Fendrix
2[H]4U
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Furthermore, new and upcoming bands that are begging for a label usually take a shitty contract because they'll do anything to get signed.
The only exception to this where bands actually have lawyers and can negotiate better contracts are probably Aerosmith...
In fact, I read an article recently about Dave Grohl being sick and tired of good bands that get screwed over on contracts to greedy labels, so he created his own to try and give fair deals to them.
MavericK
Zero Cool
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The exact same could be said of the RIAA's tactics. I don't think many people feel that they have much integrity, either.
BloodyIron
2[H]4U
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Artists certainly don't have difficulty filling up concert halls and such here in Canada. I went to NIN in Q3 of 08 and holy crap was it packed. (Oh, and it was a fantastic show, definately not missing another, makes me sad I missed the with teeth tour )
I think Trent knows what really will make the money from now on, considering he's been touring now for near 2 years straight.... God damn, what a monster.
)I think Trent knows what really will make the money from now on, considering he's been touring now for near 2 years straight.... God damn, what a monster.
BloodyIron
2[H]4U
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Copyright infringement is not theft, it is copyright infringement. Theft by definition removes something from another entity, as copying is not removal it is hence not theft. Get your story straight buster.
matrix563
Fully [H]
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Steve lives in Canada?
Oh please. Spin it some more why don't you?
It's disingenuous to suggest they are the same, and it certainly doesn't help the anti-piracy movement because it ostensibly dishonest intellectually.
You wouldn't confuse murder and rape with each other, so why equate theft and copyright infringement? Let's just call things what they are.
BaronBamboo
Gawd
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that's great and all that you have your high paying job in the industry, but I'm not gonna pay $15 for a cd that'll probably have 3 good songs on it
MrGuvernment
Fully [H]
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Thank you, gets annoying when people think something is the same as another when it clearly is not! and it has been explained and even goes as far as the courts in agreement that copyright infringement is not theft, it is clearly laid out in the laws of most countries these days.
MavericK
Zero Cool
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MrGuvernment
Fully [H]
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ya, Apple charges you more for DRM free stuff..lol
lets sell you a product that is easier to make, would cost less but charge you more!
lets sell you a product that is easier to make, would cost less but charge you more!
LeviathanZERO
Supreme [H]ardness
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As someone else mentioned earlier,
This is exactly why your industry fails, and will continue to fail. You people are not the police, and have no right in incriminating ANYONE. Your definition is completely wrong, and is the exact reason why your industry continues to fail and be struck down by the courts. This is NOT stealing, and NEVER has been. Its COPYING. COPYRIGHT INFRINGMENT.
Until your industry figures this out, you will continue to be hated, and continue to fail in your unjust, untruthful, and ridiculous mission.
matrix563
Fully [H]
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go canada
Darrell262
Weaksauce
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You guys didn't mention NIN's free cd he gave away, or whatever.
Didn't he make 1 million off donations from it? I know I payed my 5$ for it.
So just cause radio heads album didnt make much money.
Didn't he make 1 million off donations from it? I know I payed my 5$ for it.
So just cause radio heads album didnt make much money.
Fuck yeah, eh!
I think people have no problem giving to artists. TONS of people use iTunes and similar sites. Apple's not stinkin' rich for nothing. CDs are dying because $15 for an album in not worth it. I can't name more than one or two albums a year with more than 3 good songs on them. You're wasting your money if you buy an entire album. You're better off buying the 2-3 songs you want online and saving 10 bucks.
People just don't want RIAA-style groups which practically steal money from people and it never gets to any artists. That's what people have a problem with. Had the RIAA and MPAA sued people and gave all the money to the proper artists, I guarantee you they would not be so hated.
I think people have no problem giving to artists. TONS of people use iTunes and similar sites. Apple's not stinkin' rich for nothing. CDs are dying because $15 for an album in not worth it. I can't name more than one or two albums a year with more than 3 good songs on them. You're wasting your money if you buy an entire album. You're better off buying the 2-3 songs you want online and saving 10 bucks.
People just don't want RIAA-style groups which practically steal money from people and it never gets to any artists. That's what people have a problem with. Had the RIAA and MPAA sued people and gave all the money to the proper artists, I guarantee you they would not be so hated.
Zellio2009
[H]ard|Gawd
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No, I'm sorry pirates, but you idiots who steal (And yes, STEAL) are as bad as the RIAA.
Zellio2009
[H]ard|Gawd
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Both you and the RIAA want to live your lives taking what you want. You belong in bed together, the same crooked bed.
"The music industry created a loophole in Canadian copyright laws when it asked for a levy on blank audio media. These $0.21 to $0.24 levies on blank media raised millions of dollars for music publishers, but also legalized copying in the digital age, to the consternation of the music industry.[2] Canadian courts have ruled that consumers have the right to copy any recording from the original copy even those they do not personally own. This consumer right has been extended by the courts to include peer-to-peer downloads.[3]"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_copyright_law
This is the way i have understood it to work for quite sometime now. If it is no longer valid...then someone needs to tell us canadians
You are right, I remember telling my kids that their was a levy or tax put on blank media and they had my blessing to collect their music on line. At one point they wanted to include hard drives and other hardware. They backed down on that,and left it on cd and dvd. Last time I read they had collected over 300 million but can't seem to decide on how to disburse the money. When the levy or tax when into effect you couldn't hear a peep from the other side. Privately they said it was fair. Publicly they have to rant and rave.
If they pulled that much in at 21 to 24 cents a pop just in canada, Music Cd's that are $10 to$20 dollars a pop are a printing press for money. So if your from a country outside of ours please don't belittle us because our system tries to be FAIR. At least we try, better then putting kids and granies in jail. If you want, come up and visit us, we'll welcome you with open arms,we don't bite. Buy some blank media, your guilt will vanish knowing that money is going to help feed the artist. Down load to your hearts content. Then go back home and spread the news that their are some countries that are just alittle different in the way they deal with situations. In all honesty to penalize someone with the amounts that the RIAA wants to collect says alot about the justice system. I think the people who back this shit should hang their heads in shame.
I got this from the levy act and it is very fair.
"The private copying levy is distributed as per the Copyright Board's allocation as: 66% to eligible authors and publishers,18.9% to eligible performers and 15.1% to eligible record companies."
As you can see the RIAA doesn't like the last number, but from an outsiders view they shouldn't bitch. I wish just once they would show us a standard contract, and the break down of the numbers, so we can all go home and sleep comfortably, right after I start downloading some more cd's that I am allowed to do by law.
"The private copying levy is distributed as per the Copyright Board's allocation as: 66% to eligible authors and publishers,18.9% to eligible performers and 15.1% to eligible record companies."
As you can see the RIAA doesn't like the last number, but from an outsiders view they shouldn't bitch. I wish just once they would show us a standard contract, and the break down of the numbers, so we can all go home and sleep comfortably, right after I start downloading some more cd's that I am allowed to do by law.