File-Sharing Doesn’t Hurt Box Office Revenue

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How many studies like this do we need before the industry gets it? Pirates weren't going to pay for your product in the first place, so you can't count it as "lost" revenue.

New research by economist Koleman Strumpf shows that there is no significant effect of movie piracy on box office revenues. This conclusion is based on data from 150 blockbuster movies that were released over a period of six years, using the popular Hollywood exchange as an indication for the revenue impact.
 

MavericK

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Movie tickets are too goddamn expensive, that's the real problem. Coupled with insane concession prices, it's a wonder that anyone actually goes to the theater these days.
 

morgwon

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Movie tickets are too goddamn expensive, that's the real problem. Coupled with insane concession prices, it's a wonder that anyone actually goes to the theater these days.

The real problem is that movies they green light way too much junk. And now that actors are willing to take smaller money up front for a bigger cut of the backend they are making the risk even smaller.
 

BOTA:49

Limp Gawd
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Oct 5, 2013
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155
Just legalize it!

Wrong topic. Colorado is thattaway.

I don't condone piracy in any form, but this news is hardly surprising. I have a buddy who pirates movies like crazy. He had some deal at a Hollywood video years ago where he could take like 2-3 movies at a time for a monthly fee, kind of like Netflix. He did nothing but burn copies of the DVDs for himself. It was insane. The messed up part is that he hardly watched those movies, and instead saw about 3 or 4 movies a month at the theater.

I laughed at him when he finally realized how much time he wasted burning movies and how much money he spent on a membership and blank DVDs that he never used. Now he downloads everything, yet he STILL goes to the theater. He thinks spending $150 for a 4TB drive is worth it to have a copy of a movie he complains sucked ass and he'll never watch again.

Still, the industry makes far more money off of this pirate than they do from my measly 2 movies a year.
 

alamox

Gawd
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Jun 6, 2014
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yea tickets are expensive here in france it's 10€, something like 14$
beside no one has time anymore, or need more political propaganda for X or Y Gov, there are plenty of TVshows doing that already.
USA is strong, israel is legitimate state, being gay is good, being muslim is bad, north korea is retarded, ok we get it move on to something else plz...
 

Deezus

Gawd
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I just hate dealing with most of the other patrons in the theater itself.
 

Scythe

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How many people actually go to a movie theater anymore? Don't get me wrong, I like going to the movies, but......

Most movies are pure shit, so I am VERY selective about what movies I want to see IN a cinema. Next, the prices are way too high for what you get. If you want water, soda, snacks, etc. then the price quadruples.

Meanwhile....I still get to see the movie if I wait to catch it on HBO (or other) or PPV it and STILL save loads of money.

The studios are killing the movie houses because of their greed. The cinema's are killing themselves by charging outrageous prices for snacks, etc.

Bottom line: either make good movies and price shit accordingly or die a slow death.

In the real world....people who have an interest, but do not feel like getting raped at the box office will pirate.
 
D

Deleted whining member 223597

Guest
I think most people go to movies as a social experience rather than enjoying the movie itself. The price isn't terrible if you only watch the movie once (Blu-rays are like $30 for new movies and most movies you only watch once). Personally, if there's a movie I actually want to watch I'll usually wait until it comes out on cable or Netflix. The movies I actually watch with my friends usually aren't the most interesting, but I still enjoy going.
 

Red Squirrel

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Just legalize it!

This. Pot and piracy are two wars that need to just end, they serve zero purpose.

I only really go to the movies as a social experience but typically I wait till a movie comes out on [insert home viewing method of choice].

In fact sometimes I'll just have friends over and watch a movie at my house.
 

d_stilgar

Limp Gawd
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Just legalize it!

This. Pot and piracy are two wars that need to just end, they serve zero purpose.

I only really go to the movies as a social experience but typically I wait till a movie comes out on [insert home viewing method of choice].

In fact sometimes I'll just have friends over and watch a movie at my house.

No. I would agree with the issues around legalizing pot, but piracy is still theft and wrong. It doesn't matter if studies show that it isn't doing any harm to the industry, it's still their product and their choice how to monetize it, distribute it, never show anyone and destroy it, whatever.

I agree that it does marginal harm if any, and that the majority of downloads are not lost sales, but a person's property, even the intellectual variety, is still theirs and should be protected.

Now, crazy $250,000 fines and 10 years in prison is ridiculous. That needs to cease. It shouldn't be charged any worse than say, stealing a copy from a store, or heck, stealing ten copies, but all those are still just misdemeanors.
 

Red Squirrel

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Piracy is not really any different than letting someone borrow your truck though.

Hey I just bought this truck, you might not want to buy a truck too just to do that one dump run so here's the keys and you can borrow it for the day"

If anything they at very least need to stop treating it like terrorism. The fine should not be any higher than what the "stolen" good is worth. you will do less time breaking into a store and stealing a physical copy than to "steal" it off the internet, even though the 1st method actually did cause damage and cost lot of money to the company.

I should also require the same amount of proof and same legal process as any other crime. For some reason piracy gets it's own little category (civil or something like that) and that category of crime does not need as much evidence.

Of course "they" are being paid by the industry to make these crazy laws and penalties, so it's never going to change. If the RIAA/MPAA paid them a bit more money they could probably even push for death penalty or deportation.
 

Stiler

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I remember when I was a kid back in the 90's, it cost like 8 bucks for two tickets and popcorn/drink was like 3.50.

Now it can cost up to 14 bucks PER TICKET (3d) or 11 (non 3d).

Popcorn (small) cost 4 bucks, drink cost 3.50.

So for two people these days it can cost around 30+ bucks.


Which is absurd, and why many people just wait til they can rent it at redbox or watchit on netflix.
 
D

Deleted member 126051

Guest
No! Because over X number of people were employed on a film! (Translation, they've already been paid.)
And piracy is bad! BAAAAAAAAD!
So fork over for that $15 ticket ($20 if you watch in crappy 3D! $25 in crappy IMAX 3D!).
And the $8 thimble full of watered down Coke.
And the $9 baggie of day old popcorn!
And the $7 bag of M&Ms with 3 M&Ms in it!
Or eat one of the $5 hotdogs that's been on the rollers for the last five days!
Next up! PAY TOILETS in the rest rooms!
 

Kueller

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If I go to the movies I make a day of it, wandering from movie to movie I'll usually catch 3-4 full movies and parts of a couple others. Free refills on the small (still huge) soda, and I get the McDuck money bin sized popcorn for an extra $2 over the small. Yeah, it's $20 for the ticket, soda, and popcorn vault but only $4-$5 per movie.
 

Ocean

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Box office revenue. Lol

Usually the only pirated copies that occur during the box office are the really shitty movie theatre cams with monaural audio, and skewed picture. People that think this is acceptable have no genuine entertainment interest in watching the movie anyway. Of course they werent going to pay for it.

Comparing on-demand rentals of people who are actually capable of pirating digitally pristine copies would be far more meaningful.
 

Dion

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Movie tickets are too goddamn expensive, that's the real problem. Coupled with insane concession prices, it's a wonder that anyone actually goes to the theater these days.

Exactly. No way in hell I am going to pay for movie tickets if its 2 people or more.. I will wait 3 months and buy the bluray for 20$.. Instead of paying 25$+
 

Spidey329

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No. I would agree with the issues around legalizing pot, but piracy is still theft and wrong. It doesn't matter if studies show that it isn't doing any harm to the industry, it's still their product and their choice how to monetize it, distribute it, never show anyone and destroy it, whatever.

I agree that it does marginal harm if any, and that the majority of downloads are not lost sales, but a person's property, even the intellectual variety, is still theirs and should be protected.

Now, crazy $250,000 fines and 10 years in prison is ridiculous. That needs to cease. It shouldn't be charged any worse than say, stealing a copy from a store, or heck, stealing ten copies, but all those are still just misdemeanors.

Piracy is not theft. The legal definition of theft is:

The actus reus oftheftis usuallydefinedas an unauthorized taking, keeping or using of another's property which must be accompanied by a mens rea of dishonesty and/or the intent to permanently deprive the owner or the person with rightful possession of that property or its use.

This is why it is a civil case and the charge is "copyright infringement". You are not depriving anyone of their property. If your neighbor had a Lamborghini and you copied it with a sophisticated printer, you would not be stealing it. You'd be violating the copyright on the design and/or trademarks. But legally, you stole nothing.

Now, if you stole a DVD from the store and then made tons of copies for sale, the initial crime would be petty theft (depending jurisdiction) and copyright infringement for the making of copies. The first bring criminal and the latter being civil.
 

dr.kevin

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you guys create your own problems.

I never eat food at the theater. Can't you just enjoy a flick without keeping your hands and mouth filled.
A nice chunk of money saved right there.
 

LMT MFA

Limp Gawd
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Yeah, we all know that's bullshit though, many people would start paying if they had no illegal alternative, definitely not all of them, but still an appreciable amount. Go ahead, deny it, deep down you know it's true.
 

LMT MFA

Limp Gawd
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Woops, forgot:

That being said, alot of movies are in my (and reading from this topic, most people's) opinion, shit. Going to the movies vs watching at home is a social thing, and nowadays that social thing mostly sucks. So that's bound to cut into profits naturally.
 

arnemetis

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Home theater setups got too good, and cinemas turned to crap, that's all there is. To really curb piracy and 'lost sales' they need to 100% abandon home video. No on demand/streaming, no hbo, no bluray. That way the ONLY way to EVER see the movie is to catch it in theaters. Release it on disc if you want 20 years later when you're selling to a different audience.

Not too ridiculous, ehh?




:rolleyes:
 

Patriot

[H]ard|DCer of the Month - March 2011/June 2013/De
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I am surprised no one has gone there yet...

"You wouldn't Download a car would you?" :rolleyes:
 

Semantics

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Bullshit, without being able to control variables it's very hard to reach any sort of decisive conclusion but ofc an economist is fully versed in talking out of their ass. Plus you're dealing with projected revenue models, exactly how accurate are they to begin with. It's very hard to say one way or another, likely piracy does have an effect on revenue but in what way exactly is hard to say.
I am surprised no one has gone there yet...

"You wouldn't Download a car would you?" :rolleyes:
Screw the car where can i download gas!
 
Joined
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I avoid the prices at the concession stand by going to a restaurant and eating a meal before the movie. For the prices they charge, I could fill up on REAL food in a lighted room with a waiter offering free refills. As opposed to eating popcorn and chocolate in the dark, while trying to suck on ice because you ran out of soda.

Sure, you can't bring your own snacks to the movie, but they can't stop you from eating before the movie. The key is making sure you're stuffed and hydrated before you go in, so that none of the food they're offering seems appetizing. If you're hungry/thirsty, you'll probably end up buying something or enjoying the movie less.

Anyway, as far as the downloading stuff goes. My personal philosophy is that if something is available for purchase, you should buy it. However, with foreign films you can't otherwise watch in your country due to region lock, or stuff that no one is distributing... I think that's fair game. It's not a lost sale, because they aren't offering it for sale. That said, if you download something and they later offer you a chance to buy it, you should feel honor-bound to go out and purchase it at that point.
 

Ashbringer

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The problem is that Hollywood like a lot of industry relies nowadays on first impression. A movie like transformers would bring in a huge crowd and would make a lot of money, but the movie turns out to be a pile of crap. Thanks to things like trailers it's easy to make a movie look better then it really is. By the forth Transformers movie, people are going to be less likely to want to go to theaters to watch it. Wait for it on TV or Netflix. Basically when it's damn near free.

Problem is people become desensitized to these kind of movies, and begin to pirate it. Kinda like demo the movie before committing to it. It's just that 99% of movies they pirate are literally not worth the hard disk space, let alone the money to go watch it in theaters.

Remember that most people only go to theaters to watch a movie once, and never come back. Hollywood's job is to get you there once, cause nothing they do will make you watch it twice. You'll either wait for it on DvD or Netflix. This is why we have so many remakes lately for movies. They know what works, so they just modernize it and slap on the seal of approval. The remake is almost always 10x worse than the original.
 

dgz

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yea tickets are expensive here in france it's 10€, something like 14$
beside no one has time anymore, or need more political propaganda for X or Y Gov, there are plenty of TVshows doing that already.
USA is strong, israel is legitimate state, being gay is good, being muslim is bad, north korea is retarded, ok we get it move on to something else plz...

This guy gets it.
 
D

Deleted member 108676

Guest
Movie tickets are too goddamn expensive, that's the real problem. Coupled with insane concession prices, it's a wonder that anyone actually goes to the theater these days.

The movie prices aren't bad. Think of the overhead a theater has...and you think 8 or 9 bucks is too much? Its the prices of concessions, like you said, that are out of control.

My wife and I don't buy anything from their concession stands, so for us movies are fair priced.
 

farscapesg1

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We rarely go to the movies anymore, and when we do we make it a family trip. Of course we sneak juice boxes in for the kids (first they don't need the soda and second we don't need the extra cost). Finally went and saw Maleficent and I feel it was worth it (not 3D because the kids don't like it and our oldest wears glasses which never work with the 3D glasses).

As for the rent/rip/watch being piracy, I don't agree even though I know technically it is. If you keep it afterward, yes, but if you rent it, watch it, then delete what is really the difference?

I've never understood the movie jumping thing either. 2 hours and I'm ready to leave. Besides, movie theaters around here are starting to leave the movie and show times off the individual theaters so you don't know what is playing or when. When you hand them your ticket they just tell you the theater number.
 

MindBuster

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Pot and piracy .

...ahhh, if only I could pirate my Pot. :p

*looks at last bud of the month, that'll only last today* :(

Anyways, on topic, the usual reply, if it werent for piracy they wouldnt make as much money as they do, the pirates are the "Here, have a free sample and tell your friends about it", then some friend or two will actually buy it, which they wouldnt have if you hadnt told them about it.

It's a symbiant relationship, two dissimilar parasites feasting on eachother.
 

Semantics

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Anyone that says movie tickets are too expensive are full of it. You can easily get movie tickets for 5-8 dollars just about anywhere. Just go to the first showing of the day alot of theaters have a special for early showings that is even lower price that matinee.
 

sfsuphysics

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Movie tickets are too goddamn expensive, that's the real problem. Coupled with insane concession prices, it's a wonder that anyone actually goes to the theater these days.

Nothing says you must get snacks for a movie. And if you have some sort of health problem that prevents you from not sticking food in your face for 2 hours then sneak in a box of candies in your pocket, it's not the TSA they're not going to give you a pat down :)
 

MavericK

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The movie prices aren't bad. Think of the overhead a theater has...and you think 8 or 9 bucks is too much? Its the prices of concessions, like you said, that are out of control.

I don't know about where you live, but last time I went to a movie the ticket prices were between $12 and $18 apiece, depending on 3D, IMAX, etc.

Yeah, to me that is too expensive for 1.5-2 hours of entertainment.
 

Jagger100

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Messages
7,696
yea tickets are expensive here in france it's 10€, something like 14$
beside no one has time anymore, or need more political propaganda for X or Y Gov, there are plenty of TVshows doing that already.
USA is strong, israel is legitimate state, being gay is good, being muslim is bad, north korea is retarded, ok we get it move on to something else plz...

imho,
don't see it
don't see it
See it a ton
don't see it
See it
 

Red Falcon

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11,459
Piracy is not theft. The legal definition of theft is:



This is why it is a civil case and the charge is "copyright infringement". You are not depriving anyone of their property. If your neighbor had a Lamborghini and you copied it with a sophisticated printer, you would not be stealing it. You'd be violating the copyright on the design and/or trademarks. But legally, you stole nothing.

Now, if you stole a DVD from the store and then made tons of copies for sale, the initial crime would be petty theft (depending jurisdiction) and copyright infringement for the making of copies. The first bring criminal and the latter being civil.

That was actually a very good way of explaining it.
 

Red Falcon

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Yeah, we all know that's bullshit though, many people would start paying if they had no illegal alternative, definitely not all of them, but still an appreciable amount. Go ahead, deny it, deep down you know it's true.

Um, this is why bootlegs existed from the 70's to the 90's.
If there's a will, there's a way. ;)
 

Megalith

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I actually got bag-checked when I went to see Planet of the Apes. I had two drinks and a camera inside, but nothing happened.
 

Red Falcon

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I actually got bag-checked when I went to see Planet of the Apes. I had two drinks and a camera inside, but nothing happened.

Wow, the theaters have hired the TSA for their new screening processes.
I'm so glad we live in this wonderful 1984-esque police state, it makes life worth living! :D
 
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