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Good for you.It is a shame you didn't read the article. We articulated the point of sizing in the article.
You are mistaken.Since you missed the points here is a quick rundown of why you do not understanding sizing a power supply:
Really?1) Each person's system will vary
Which inaccurate equipment, yours ?2) Those numbers you are throwing about are static numbers (with very inaccurate equipment) and not include any transient load values
Some more often then others, others once every three a four year. Why not3) People upgrade systems!
I know. I knowe also that a good PSU does not loose it's power that quick. Hardly a valid argument. It would count if you put a 400watt PSU in a system that takes almost 400watt, then you are indeed asking for troubles. A 550watt PSU for a 400/450 watt consuming PC is more then adequate to do the job for a long time.4) As power supplies age they lose capacity (there is a much longer version of that but it would be wasted here)
As your review show, PSU's also almost always producer more watts then there's written on the box. Again, you are making a point over nothing; nitpickking; that it is.6) Power distribution within the system and power supply vary from unit to unit and system to system
True, but a good PSU can handdle 70 a 80% powerdrawn easily; atleast; it should.7) Noise output increases with load
A PSU should be able to handle the power it's made for; otherwise it's pure marketing what8) Power supplies derate with increases in operating temperature
May a laugh a minute here ? You really care about powerconsumption ?9) And to your point and the number one reason you should care (given the complaining about amount of power needed) is efficiency curve's peak at around 40-60%
You are mistaken.
Really?
Which inaccurate equipment, yours ?
I'll take "my numbers" from the internet, Slientpcreview, Hardocp and other psu review sites.
And yes, i take "recommendations" about the need for a very powerfull PSU from HardOCP, Guru3D and others with "a grain of salt". You wouldn't believe for example, what my poor old cheap ass 350watt PSU from Aopen did muster, without a hitch, all the time i used it (three years or so).
I know. I knowe also that a good PSU does not loose it's power that quick. Hardly a valid argument. It would count if you put a 400watt PSU in a system that takes almost 400watt, then you are indeed asking for troubles. A 550watt PSU for a 400/450 watt consuming PC is more then adequate to do the job for a long time.
As your review show, PSU's also almost always producer more watts then there's written on the box. Again, you are making a point over nothing; nitpickking; that it is.
True, but a good PSU can handdle 70 a 80% powerdrawn easily; atleast; it should.
If not, maybe you should put more weight to it so that manufactures do a better job in the future.
A PSU should be able to handle the power it's made for; otherwise it's pure marketing what
is written on the box. When i buy a car with a V12 engine, sure that's gonna run hot when your
"put yout feet on it". Then again, it's made to deliver that power and performance; no excuses for a""hot running Rod".
May a laugh a minute here ? You really care about powerconsumption ?
Yeah right. We don't want that a current eatring monster like the GTX470/480 don't waste even
more current, now do we
No, it's better to nickpicking, over 1 a 2% more efficiency. That's really gonna help! (not)
ow, and last but no least. A good PSU shuts itself off when it can't deliver what it is ask for, without damaging the pc. That what makes the
difference between a good and a crappy PSU. Just like incidents involving power failures etc.etc.
I've no doubt Paul knows what hes talking about when it comes to the specifics of power supplies, but the idea that you need 650W to power a single 250W card, I donno.
Does the Unit blow up?
Does the PC not post?
Does a voltage alarm sound?
What happens when a well behaved 650W unit is asked to push 700W? Does the world end? Does the part even show anyone the difference?
Wel thanks. If i still don't know what i am talking about, surely you or silentpcreview, who also use very good equipment to measure these things; have done something wrongActually based on your response you don't read the reviews published nor do you know what you are talking about, but here goes one last attemp
Ya really, that is why it is a guide.
Your point is just a scorrect as mine is. If you can't see that, well....That is great and if you understood anything about what was going on you would know that none of the sites mentioned when determining power draws for GPU's do it correctly (where are the hall effect ammeters on each lead simultaneously recording the current? The probes on the traces for the PCI-E slots to simultaneously the current?). Sticking a Kill-A-Watt between a PC and the wall does not give you an accurate number for power draw as Kill-A-Watt's claimed accuracy is very poor and its real world accuracy is even worse. We have seen Kill-A-Watt's give efficiency values of more than 100% in the past when really the units should have been in the 80% range. [/;quote]
Dunno why you keep ranting about kill-o-watts. I use YOUR numbers and that of Silentpcreview; which i believe, does a even better job testing these PSU's. Aldo you do a fine
job too, don't get me wrong here.
Right. And that's exactly what i am talking about; your own accurate numbers, capicheOur numbers for PSU reviews are accurate, but that equipment costs many thousands of dollars comapred to the $20 people pop down on a Kill-A-Watt.
I understand it perfectly, i also am familiar with your knowledge. Fact of the matter isThat is great, if you don't like the recommendations because you don't understand what is actually occurring then feel free to not use them but don't sit here and tell those of us who do understand that you do know what is occurring.
you take a different view of the matter, telling people to take a PSU heavy enough so that
it produces about 50% load. That may be perfect, and it is perfect. Only thing is, a PSU, a good PSU can easely deliver 70 a 80% load. Without hardly any compromise, atleast no serious one.
Well, don't know if it was here or at Silentpcreview, aldo i strongly believe that Hardocp used to do so; fact is that some PSU can deliver more. Not htat i encourage people to do so, it just makes clear that some PSU's have more reserves....Actually, no our reviews do not show that PSU's produce more than is written on the box as we do not overload PSU's (some can do more than their derating curve suggests but this, like an overclock, is not guarenteed and does not always occur in specification). If you are going to try and make a point please at least read what you claim to have as you are misrepresenting material facts.
I don't blame you, you are after all American, right? Must have something to do with your genes, FEAR is a big factor in the America culture.Whoopie? Derating curves exist and power supplies derate with increases in temperature. It is a fact of life get used to it, and move on. The point still stands.
[qoute]
Again the point is correct and you are just whining. Don't bring up power as your big concern and then complain when one component out of a list of reasons it isn't enough.
Sure. Or maybe that PSU was just a piece of crapAnd a PSU that shuts down hardly runs your system. Also, good power supplies do die. I had a very large brand name 1200W+ powersupply blow out on the secondary side at full load and cause several thousand dollars worth of damage to my load tester. So, really you are just wrong again.
I go where i please. Who are you to tell me what to do, just because i don't "lick your B***s".In the end you managed not to raise a single valid point, refute any points, read any of your the claimed material, or understand the point of a guide. In the future if you feel the need to blindly start firing off comments about power consumption that you are wholly uninformed about, just stay in the SPCR forums.
Wel thanks. If i still don't know what i am talking about, surely you or silentpcreview, who also use very good equipment to measure these things; have done something wrong
Dunno why you keep ranting about kill-o-watts. I use YOUR numbers and that of Silentpcreview; which i believe, does a even better job testing these PSU's. Aldo you do a fine
job too, don't get me wrong here.
Right. And that's exactly what i am talking about; your own accurate numbers, capiche
Well, don't know if it was here or at Silentpcreview, aldo i strongly believe that Hardocp used to do so; fact is that some PSU can deliver more. Not htat i encourage people to do so, it just makes clear that some PSU's have more reserves....
Sure. Or maybe that PSU was just a piece of crap
I have had a powersurgent in mu PSU-Cable (to the wall); My Enermax 380watt survided it, along with all hardware. Must be luck then....
My reasons are valid, my argument rocksolid, you are just blinded with your own vision.
I do know hwat i am talking about, only have a hard time explaining myself while english is not my native language. Excuse me.No I haven't done anything wrong with the power supply reviews, you simply have not read them or understood them.
Because you have no idea what you are talking about as has become painfully obvious.
Allright. I have mistaken how you do review a PSU. That does not mean i can't know whatSizing a power supply requires that you know the load on the power supply. YOU are bitching about the size of the power supply recommended without knowing anything about the actual power draw of the components (which our power supply reviews don't tell you since we are reviewing power supplies with a SMPS ATE not reviewing components of a system and their draw as the SMPS ATE uses active loads to draw power from the PSU at whatever value I program). YOU are basing your incorrect ASSUMPTIONS on values you see reported from people around the web that DO NOT actually record power draw of individual components CORRECTLY.
I am not wrong. We are just talking over two different things.Don't capiche me when you are completely wrong.
Fact is that some PSU's deliver more amps then there is written on the box. How can that be a bad thing ? Hardocp don't, if i read the reviews correctly....It was neither. Gabe is the only one who does it. Before commenting you would do well to know what you are talking about. And NO it is not good for power supplies to have "more reserves". When a power supplies OCP or OPP does not turn on when it is overloaded that is a BAD thing. These safety components should be working properly.
No, i clearly can't explain myself with my poor english; that it true. Don't tell me i don't know what i am talking about; i do. Thank you.You clearly, once more, do not know what you are talking about. Inrush current and primary side surges are NOT the same as a secondary failure or a switching failure. All that means is your primary filtering was correctly speced and the surge was within its tolerances. Whoppie.
That are your words. I know i am not.You were wrong across the board.
That does not mean i can't know what
a system demands, when you know the efficiency of a PSU, anyone can do the math...
Huh?I am not wrong. We are just talking over two different things.
Fact is that some PSU's deliver more amps then there is written on the box. How can that be a bad thing ? Hardocp don't, if i read the reviews correctly....
No, i clearly can't explain myself with my poor english; that it true. Don't tell me i don't know what i am talking about; i do. Thank you.
ps: Again not a single word about "your concern about efficiency". Must be hard to admit you "slipped" on that one....
One site actually does use them: http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/gpu-power-consumption-2010.htmlwhere are the hall effect ammeters on each lead simultaneously recording the current?
HardOCP's power consumption numbers from their video card reviews are measured with Kill-A-Watt meters. Only Paul uses a proper power analyzer in his PSU reviews. [H]'s GPU power numbers are just as inaccurate as anyone else's.Dunno why you keep ranting about kill-o-watts. I use YOUR numbers and that of Silentpcreview; which i believe, does a even better job testing these PSU's. Aldo you do a fine
job too, don't get me wrong here.
One site actually does use them: http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/gpu-power-consumption-2010.html
The results discussed in this part of our review are interesting mostly from the theoretical prospective. We would warn you against repeating our tests in OCCT: GPU, because we have record of quite a few cases when not only the PSU safety would kick in, but also when graphics cards would fail because their electric circuitry couldn’t bear the load created by this synthetic benchmark.
Yes, especially since a GTX480 only consumes a few watts less than a GTX295.In which they make one good point relevant to recommending such power supplies:
On their Enermax Liberty ELT620AWT PSU (620 W) meaning that the PSU was not a suitable stable platform for even one GTX 295 when the GPU was really working. Also it should be noted those are non-Fermi based cards with power consumptions hitting up to 400W (GTX 295 in OCCT: GPU).
One word : nitpicking !
Really. How about all those crappy PSU's all over the world, you know, the kind you like to ignore. Funny that, aldo they aren't topnotch, far from it. We don't see zillions of pc's blowing themselves up. Unbelievable!
No, you are so full of you own ideas, you do not see i am saying it is utter silly to argue about 1 or 2 % efficiency, while you don't mind to put a power energy Monster like those Fermi's in your pc. Is it so hard ?
It is also silly your deniel that a good PSU can't deliver 70 a 80% of its power all the time. Despite the heat and efficiency, they can. And i don't get it ? lol.
I think i don't know what it is you are trying to tell me. I mean making more of something then it deserves; like recommending a little more PSU then is actually needed.That word, I do not think it means what you think it means.
Do you really want me to answer that ?So you don't know?
Well, that's too easy. Am i reading the headlines wrong ?I don't put Fermi based cards in anyone's PC. The numbers are the numbers and have nothing to do with me.
I am not complaining. When you review solely PSU's and favor them for their efficiency: GREAT!When running heavy draw items higher efficiency values mean lower operating cost (if buying a new PSU), and less heat to remove from the case. I am sorry you can't understand those very simple principles. Someone complaining about power usage should be cheering on more efficient solutions, but alas you are only here to complain.
Well, i sure don't see someone here recommend it. Far from it, that impression i get from you.I never said they could not. Have you ever even read a single review I have done?
Well, that's too easy. Am i reading the headlines wrong ?
Think not, PSU's recommended by Hardocp for the Fermi GPU's. If i am dead wrong, shoot me.
Am i speaking germanBang you are dead (wrong).
And that is that as you have not had a point in a long time.
I mean making more of something then it deserves; like recommending a little more PSU then is actually needed.
It should be just enough.Is there any chance my corsair HX1000 will run GTX480 TRI SLI No GPU OC(system specs in sig, CPU 920 @3.6)? It was fine with GTX285 TRI SLI so I figure I am pretty close, but maybe it would put me over the top.
It should be just enough.
<EDIT> I forgot to mention that the reason why I didn't buy the Antec TPQ-1200 or TPQ-1200 OC is that several reviews have stated that the 80mm fan, although pulse-width modulated still becomes very loud when the PSU is under full load (such as when running three GTX480s in tri-SLI). The Silverstone is much quieter with the 135mm fan and has 300 more watts of "ceiling" for future upgradeability if need be. In my situation, it will allow for the addition of two more hard drives into my Silverstone Raven RV-01W case
I noticed the lack of dedicated graphics PSUs on the list, and since a dedicated graphics PSU becomes cost efficient when the price reaches $170, at least an explanation was in order
Actually, no. The 610W Silencer was manufactured by Seasonic, but based on a different design than the 620W M12II/S12II models.Thank you guys very much for this guide. IIRC, the Seasonic 620's actually inside the PC Power and Cooling 610 silencer. If that's indeed the case, then I should be ok...saved me some bucks and a whole lotta hassle [H]!
You'll be fine.I haven't put it all together yet because I'm a little concerned about pushing the PSU that hard. What do you guys think? Can I swing this?
Is that a good thing or a bad thing?Actually, no. The 610W Silencer was manufactured by Seasonic, but based on a different design than the 620W M12II/S12II models.
Says the guy w/ a 1Kw PSU.You'll be fine.
Which part? The made by Seasonic part is a good thing. As for the different designs, the M12II design does perform better, but your PSU is still very good.Is that a good thing or a bad thing?
What does that have to do with anything?Says the guy w/ a 1Kw PSU.
You're using a 1Kw PSU and the only difference between our setups is another video card. Why did you go w/ so much power?What does that have to do with anything?
You're using a 1Kw PSU and the only difference between our setups is another video card. Why did you go w/ so much power?
Because I got it for a good price.You're using a 1Kw PSU and the only difference between our setups is another video card. Why did you go w/ so much power?
Yes.Would a HX 620W be able to handle a GTX 480 with 2 SATA HDD's, SATA DVD Burner, Q6600 @ 3.6 GHZ and 5 x 120mm Case Fans?