Feedback Req: Ultimate HTPC/Gaming/Desktop System - i4C 2.66, 8GB, 4TB, 4850: $2.1K

[Dangman]

OMGGGGG it's like we're telepathically connected!!!

LOL!

Oddly enough, you're not the first person here on the forums to say that to me....

 

[JakFrost]

Hmmm, let me put it this way: I prefer keeping systems with different functions and roles separate to maximize their best price to performance value. In other words, I would have kept the HTPC and gaming/desktop as separate entities.

Oh and I really don't like the look of that Lian Li case. But if it fit your needs and wants, then I have no problem with you choosing it.

One System To Rule Them All

My friend has a very nice living room with a projector in it while his bedroom is all the way on the top floor of the house. He previously had a computer there with dual screens for work and play. I always thought that it was a bit strange for him to spend time in his own bedroom sitting there on the computer when he had such a nice living room with a projector and a 100-inch++ screen right in front of him.

In my design it just seemed natural to build one system for him that would be in the living room and it would handle all of his needs. It seems like this system is it and it definitely has the power and capacity to do everything that he wanted and then some more.

He can now spend more time in his living room doing work and play on one system in one place and get out of his bedroom. There is a big plus to not having your computer in the bedroom and I've experienced better sleep and less distractions in going to sleep when I took my computer out of there. I'm sure he also realized that.

To HTPC or Not to HTPC?

I don't remember if I mentioned this in this thread but in mid 2008 last year I was at a point where I had to make a decision on the future design for my own entertainment center since I was retiring my old Sony 27" CRT TV and going to that Samsung 50" Plasma. I originally speced out an HTPC system for my living room, the first spec was a bare-bones mini-ITX system just for video playback. I realized that I would want that system to be on 24/7 so I might as well make it a little better to include space for some storage so that it could do video capture and downloads for me at night. Then feature creep set it and I thought, well if it is going to be on all the time I might as well put in a better processor for it so that I could queue up some encoding jobs on it. Finally, I thought of why not also put in a nice video card in the system and enjoy gaming on a 50" Plasma also. I finally ended up with a similar All-In-One System but with the original Intel Core 2 Quad config that I first posted in the thread before swapping to the Intel Core i7.

However, in my situation I had a spare small bedroom where my computer is located and I was happy with my computer being in here. I thought about building a whole new system that would be better than my current system and I realized that this would be the wrong way to go since now I would have to support two separate systems that overlap in the functionality. I then scrapped the whole idea of building a new system all together and decided just to save the money on upgrading my current system and just to hook up a long HDMI cable to feed the video output from my current system to the TV in my living room. I wouldn't be able to play games there on the plasma but I didn't mind that since I'm comfortable and used to playing games in my spare bedroom (aka. computer room).

When I mentioned the idea of building an All-In-One HTPC system to my friend, he seemed interested in the fact since I'm guessing he saw a way of getting the computer out of his bedroom for good and putting it in the house's nerve center, the living room to enjoy all entertainment that it could provide. It is a perfect setup for him.

The Case

I think that the plain simplicity of the case is something to admire since the simple design should prove elegant and ageless as the computer gets older. The quality of the case is very good and I'm personally very happy with Lian-Li cases after I bought my V1200 case and saw the light, vowing never to go back to any other crappy manufacturer with fake aluminum faceplate and steel crappy guts. The 4mm thick aluminum in my V1200 case is something to admire. My other friend also bought the V1000 in black color and he also loves it.

One thing that came to my mind that I already mentioned above is that this system build would probably be better in a tower case design because of the length and width of the HTPC case making it card to fit into furniture, but at the expense of edge mounted fans of tower cases. I still think that that is a great case for that system, and once it is placed into a piece of furniture it won't really matter.

Not Enough SATA Power Cables

One thing that came up during the build is that the power supply only came with two SATA power cables with 2 connectors each so we were only able to connect three 1TB hard drives and the Intel SSD. Luckily the optical drive came with a molex-to-sata power adapter so we got that working also but right now the system is short and needs another one of those modular power supply cables to get two more connectors for the remaining 1TB drive and the second Intel SSD that should be coming up in the future when the prices drop. It sucks that the power supply comes with only 2 SATA power cables but with 3 molex power cables. They really need to start switching to SATA power soon.

I have to see if there is a way to order two extra modular SATA power cables from Corsair for my friend.

As an alternative he might have to buy one of those Molex-To-SATA power adapters.

Power Usage

I did a quick check on the power draw of the system and on boot-up it draws 240 watts and as it is booting the OS it drops to ~180 watts since the CPU was set in all auto settings including speedstep technology to limit speed and power draw. The power supply is a 520 watt power supply so it appears that the system was speced out correctly. A friend of mine was saying that we should have bought a 700 watt power supply for this system in case my friend ever wants to go SLI but I thought that SLI is always a waste of money since a single next-gen card is always faster.

The whole power supply wattage growth that we've seen in the past few years is crazy, going from 150-300 watt standard for 15-years, to 1 kW+ and higher in just 3-years. I really think that people are overbuying power supply capacity these days and at the same time some companies are using the wattage rating on a power supply as a marketing benchmark and don't really inform people about +12V rail amperage.

I'm going to get some wattage numbers for it while playing some video intensive game to see how much the power draw rises then. The P3 Kill-a-Watt meter always shows the Power Factor at 99% since the power supply does Active Power Factor correction.

 

[ShagnWagn]

Hmmm, let me put it this way: I prefer keeping systems with different functions and roles separate to maximize their best price to performance value. In other words, I would have kept the HTPC and gaming/desktop as separate entities. In addition, a SSD and SLI setup is not what I personally think is within standard computer costs.

With that said, if the Ultimate Ultimate* All-In-One system with HTPC / Gaming / Desktop was your goal, then fine, it's a good build. It just wouldn't have been my goal. That's all I'm saying.

Oh and I really don't like the look of that Lian Li case. But if it fit your needs and wants, then I have no problem with you choosing it.

When you keep systems with different functions and roles separate, I would tend to think it would cost a lot more than just building one system to do everything (thus comparatively having a poor price/performance value). Although having separate systems would be ideal in a home when two things need to be done at once (kids watching movie while you game in other room).

If you don't like the look of that Lian Li case, would you care to expand on what you would recommend that would fit his needs? I will have three near identical systems to his I will be building.

Audio Path - Motherboard S/PDIF Optical Out

My friend has a Logitech speaker system that already includes a little decoder box for DTS and Dolby Digital so he just feeds the optical out from the motherboard to the Sony A/V and then optical in to the Logitech decoder. Even after the projector upgrade most likely the sound will still be over S/PDIF optical and that is fine since he has only a 5.1 setup so both DD/DTS fulfill that need. The newer audio streams that are lossless like TrueHD and Master Audio will have to wait until they are better supported by video card HDMI, media players, and windows audio path.

My own setup is different though. I do the motherboard internal S/PDIF out to my nVidia video card S/PDIF input, then feed both video and audio over the same 60-foot HDMI cable to my living room Pioneer 1018 receiver, which then outputs video over HDMI to my Samsung 50" plasma. This works fine for my setup and I also get DTS and DD 5.1 channel surround sound, and I can go to 6.1 with DD+ that I already tried and tested with my audio setup. I'm awaiting a pair of speakers to come in and I'll do a full 7.1 channel setup in my living room, but I won't be able to get any 7.1 channel streams because of the S/PDIF 1.5 Mbit/s bandwidth limitation. Maybe I'll find a way to get this going. But so far I'm happy with FFDshow doing audio up-mixing to 5.1 channels anyway.

Great info on your case selection, thanks.

You did miss an audio question I had for you though. I understand that DD/DTS signals go straight from source to the receiver, but it is my understanding the audio card needs to encode game sounds into one of these formats (like Dolby Digital Live) to get surround sound through an optical connection. Are you getting full surround sound from games through your digital connections? I had to buy a sound card that had Dolby Digital Live to get gaming surround sound through optical. My goal is to seamlessly get surround sound gaming, and lossless movie audio through the same connection.

 

[Dangman]

When you keep systems with different functions and roles separate, I would tend to think it would cost a lot more than just building one system to do everything (thus comparatively having a poor price/performance value).

Not in the case of the OP. The OP spend close to $2400 on this Ultimate All In One system. $400 to $500 is more than enough for an HD capable HTPC and the leftover cash is more than enough for a gaming/desktop system.

If you don't like the look of that Lian Li case, would you care to expand on what you would recommend that would fit his needs? I will have three near identical systems to his I will be building.

I'm fond of this case:
$105 - Silverstone LC13B-E ATX Media Center / HTPC Case

 

[JakFrost]

When you keep systems with different functions and roles separate, I would tend to think it would cost a lot more than just building one system to do everything (thus comparatively having a poor price/performance value). Although having separate systems would be ideal in a home when two things need to be done at once (kids watching movie while you game in other room).

but it is my understanding the audio card needs to encode game sounds into one of these formats (like Dolby Digital Live) to get surround sound through an optical connection. Are you getting full surround sound from games through your digital connections?

@ ShagnWagn

Function By Purpose

The decision for a all-in-one or separate function systems has to be done by the person who's building it looking at how the system will be used.

In the situation for my friend he's the primary user of the system and he doesn't have to share it with anyone in the house so there was no need to split functions since that would create more systems to build, pay for, and support than necessary. One system to do it all for him. Same situation for me, I don't have to share my system so I can use it the same way.

Of course if you already have a gaming machine and want a dumb HTPC video playback device just build a mini-ITX system based on one of those Intel Atom processors or step up to mini-ATX systems for some Core 2 Duo/Quad action. Intel G45 4500 GMA HDMI based motherboards are perfect for that since they support DXVA for H.264/AVC now and do sound over HDMI like the ATI.

Surround Sound for Games

We didn't have time to check the game sound but we did start up Fallout 3 and it appeared like it had sound coming from all speakers, however we didn't glance at the Logitech decoder to verify if a DD or DTS signal was coming through. It sounded great though and I'll be sure to look at it again when I get a chance.



@Danny Bui

Case Selection

That SilverStone case looks nice at first glance but it is appears too short on the pictures on Newegg to support a full size ATX Intel X58 motherboard like the Asus one in this build because the power plug is on the rear edge of the motherboard so the 5.25-inch optical drive bay might interfere with getting the cable plugged in. You can see the center row of screws and how they are obstructed by the bay. Also it appears that it will not support a full length video card in it since the 6-pin PCIe power plugs of the video card will interfere with the center 3.5-inch drive bay.

Of course I'm going by only one picture on Newegg showing the top-down view of the case so I could be seeing things wrong or if there is just enough space to get everything in the case.

Personally, I've lost interest in steel cases and 80mm fans once I got my Lian-Li case with 120mm fans exclusively. It is like waking up one day and seeing things clearly for the first time and realizing how much better the quality is once you let go of the old stuff. I used to be a fan of Antec cases 10-years back and my friend all had SilverStone or ThermalTake steel cases with latest aluminum or plastic faceplates with movable gadgets, flashy fans, grills cut in all kinds of places and other design tweaks but after reading reviews of that V1200 and then actually getting one and seeing the huge difference in quality, I said never again would I recommend a steel guts case again. Considering that the case for this HTPC was only $169 when you compare it to some of the wanna be steel guts and flashy aluminum front cases that sell for $150-$300-$500 it is obscene to think about paying so much for such inferior quality. A Lian-Li case has an effect on people where they become converts once they get their first good case from them, after that there is no going back to the Steel Matrix.

I forgot to mention my rant about 80mm fans in that SilverStone case. I used those, like 10-years go when building systems and I have a bag of those loud an noisy monstrosities. I would highly recommend 120mm fans for any case or possibly 92mm if there is not enough room for some reason. I'd never buy a case if it only supported 80mm fans in the future, 120mm or larger for me and my ears.

I really wish that I took some pictures of the internals of the system to show the measurements and how everything fit just fine in the case with room to spare. We had to move the left side 120mm fan all the way to the edge of the case to clear the two 6-pin PCIe power plugs from the video card just barely. The motherboard power supply cable fit almost exactly in front of the right side 120mm center fan, like it was almost designed for such close tolerance.

We even managed to install the Intel SSD 2.5-inch laptop sized hard drive perfectly into the hard drive bay in the case by actually being able to use screws to anchor the drive perfectly securely by using those ornamental round circle holes cut out into a diamond pattern in the top of the 3.5-inch drive bay. I brought my Dremel with me to cut custom holes but these worked perfectly, almost like a geometric gift from the manufacturer for us.

 

[ShagnWagn]

I'm fond of this case:
$105 - Silverstone LC13B-E ATX Media Center / HTPC Case

I read the reviews, and it appears using any kind of real video card pretty much mandates you remove the middle drive cage. This would limit options to 3 hard drives, which may or may not be enough since it's a standalone. It may work, but looks like an awfully tight fit. That kind of scared me away beings I'm ordering "blind". It's too bad there is no way to physically see the fit of components into these cases. Doesn't seem like any kind of noise dampening features either, but for added cost it could be alleviated. I added it to my list.

 

[ShagnWagn]

Surround Sound for Games

We didn't have time to check the game sound but we did start up Fallout 3 and it appeared like it had sound coming from all speakers, however we didn't glance at the Logitech decoder to verify if a DD or DTS signal was coming through. It sounded great though and I'll be sure to look at it again when I get a chance.

Thanks. I'll be eagerly awaiting your input. Depending on function, this may decide if I go with ATI or nVidia. Having two channel audio from games would suck.

Have any build pics yet?

 

[Dangman]

@Danny Bui

I forgot to mention my rant about 80mm fans in that SilverStone case. I used those, like 10-years go when building systems and I have a bag of those loud an noisy monstrosities. I would highly recommend 120mm fans for any case or possibly 92mm if there is not enough room for some reason. I'd never buy a case if it only supported 80mm fans in the future, 120mm or larger for me and my ears.

Ummm, dude spend enough time here in his part of the forum and you would see that you and I are the same when it comes to 80mm fans.

Anyway, my personal choice for a HTPC case, for a case for a totally dedicated HTPC , wouldn't be that Silverstone case I linked to. Like many others, I love the look, layout and features of the Antec NSK2480 case. Not designed for high-end PCs but as a case for a dedicated HTPC, it's one of the best choices out there.

 

[JakFrost]

Ummm, dude spend enough time here in his part of the forum and you would see that you and I are the same when it comes to 80mm fans.

Anyway, my personal choice for a HTPC case, for a case for a totally dedicated HTPC , wouldn't be that Silverstone case I linked to. Like many others, I love the look, layout and features of the Antec NSK2480 case. Not designed for high-end PCs but as a case for a dedicated HTPC, it's one of the best choices out there.

I don't frequent forums anymore unless I'm doing specific research for parts and products so don't blame me for not knowing your preferences for fans.

I looked at the Antec case and it looks better than the SilverStone since it includes nice two 120mm fans. It even has a little hole cut out for the PCIe power supply cables from the video card.

Antec New Solution NSK2480 Black/Silver 0.8mm cold-rolled steel MicroATX Desktop Computer Case 380W Power Supply - Retail - $119.99