FedEx Refuses To Ship Machine That Can Make Untraceable Guns

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Refusing to ship a 3D printer? I guess FedEx is being a little more cautious these days after coughing up $40M to the feds last year for knowingly delivering drugs from illegal online pharmacies.

When the machine was revealed last October, Defense Distributed’s pre-orders sold out in 36 hours. But now FedEx tells WIRED it’s too wary of the legal issues around homemade gunsmithing to ship the machine to customers. “This device is capable of manufacturing firearms, and potentially by private individuals,” FedEx spokesperson Scott Fiedler wrote in a statement.
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A screw driver is capable of putting together a bomb, what's the damn difference here?
 
IT'S ALWAYS THE INTENT OF THE PERSON BEHIND IT, NOT THE DAMN TOOL.
 
Will they refuse to ship parts related to CNC machines? Because those actually make firearms on a mass scale. Ones that work.
 
It's not illegal to make your own gun as long as you follow the rules. Big difference from shipping illegal drugs.
 
How hard is it to place an order and go for the drive. Texas is a central state, doesnt take more than 8-10hrs from either direction to drive there.

where theres a will, theres a way.
as a company that runs by numbers and image, i wouldnt support untraceable guns being on the street either.
 
heatlesssun said:
Agreed. The intent of those looking for untraceable and undetectable guns.
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The machine that FedEx is refusing to ship doesn't make undetectable guns - it mills metal ones, and if you want an untraceable gun all you have to do is buy one from any non-dealer in any of the 47 states that don't require firearm registration.
 
GaryJohnson said:
The machine that FedEx is refusing to ship doesn't make undetectable guns - it mills metal ones, and if you want an untraceable gun all you have to do is buy one from any non-dealer in any of the 47 states that don't require firearm registration.
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Add in off-the-shelf parts that can be ordered online, and the Ghost Gunner would allow anyone to create one of the DIY, untraceable, semi-automatic firearms sometimes known as “ghost guns.”
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http://www.wired.com/2015/02/fedex-mill-untraceable-firearms/

It's inevtible that some fucked up shit is going to happen with this tech. Unless shippers have FULL immunity from that fucked up shit then they're just being sensible.
 
heatlesssun said:
http://www.wired.com/2015/02/fedex-mill-untraceable-firearms/

It's inevtible that some fucked up shit is going to happen with this tech. Unless shippers have FULL immunity from that fucked up shit then they're just being sensible.
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A mill and a piece of aluminum will do that now. Shippers do not demand "FULL immunity" for shipping them. Your argument and FedEx's alike is ridiculous and based wholly on a lack of understanding the legal requirement for manufacturing firearms,the technical requirements for doing so, and the liability for doing so. Steve should change the thread and post title even if that is what the idiots at wired (and they are idiots) used because people like yourself who do not understand these things are grabbing onto something that is incorrect and basing their understanding on that line.
 
Paul_Johnson said:
A mill and a piece of aluminum will do that now. Shippers do not demand "FULL immunity" for shipping them. Your argument and FedEx's alike is ridiculous and based wholly on a lack of understanding the legal requirement for manufacturing firearms,the technical requirements for doing so, and the liability for doing so.
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So if FedEx shipped one of these to a convicted felon they would have no liability if that person then manufactured a gun with the equipment and then used it the commission of a crime?
 
heatlesssun said:
So if FedEx shipped one of these to a convicted felon they would have no liability if that person then manufactured a gun with the equipment and then used it the commission of a crime?
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Correct. They would have no more liability than if they shipped a VHS duplicator to a convicted felon and he then copied VHS tapes and sold them out of his trunk. Or if they shipped him a mini mill, or a dremel and he made a firearm with that.
 
Backfire in the making, now when they DO randomly ship something that's involved in someone getting hurt or doing something illegal(which they do every day), they'll hear shit about it since they brought it up themselves and got airtime over it. Short sighted decision.
 
They have a right to not ship what they want. Cry me a river if anyone thinks its some precedent or some other BS.
 
{NG}Fidel said:
They have a right to not ship what they want. Cry me a river if anyone thinks its some precedent or some other BS.
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I agree, but when has that ever stopped anyone from being sued or blamed in this country these days? I'd have just kept my mouth shut and maintained some deniability, it's not like they have a moral stance, they willingly ship firearms untold thousands of times a day.
Short sighted from a business POV.
 
Paul_Johnson said:
Correct. They would have no more liability than if they shipped a VHS duplicator to a convicted felon and he then copied VHS tapes and sold them out of his trunk. Or if they shipped him a mini mill, or a dremel and he made a firearm with that.
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My guess is that FedEx's legal counsel sees it more the way I do. At any rate there's all kinds of business risk involved in shipping weapons manufacturing tools to convicted criminals.
 
Ramses said:
I agree, but when has that ever stopped anyone from being sued or blamed in this country these days? I'd have just kept my mouth shut and maintained some deniability, it's not like they have a moral stance, they willingly ship firearms untold thousands of times a day.
Short sighted from a business POV.
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True, but this is a bit different in that it's weapon manufacturing technology that mostly serves the purpose of circumventing any and all law enforcement.
 
They are calling it "Ghost Gunner", so there is some reasoning behind the refusal. If it were just a standard aluminum CNC machine or 3D printer, it'd be a completely different story.

It's designed to create gun parts. You can order gun parts from places, but this can create the regulated receiver. I can see how they'd be blamed for the liability.

Sucks, and I wouldn't have gone that route, but I don't have a huge legal team either.
 
Yeah, but at the moment there is no law against the vast majority of Americans making that "regulated" item till their hearts are content. If you sell it, or make many with the intent to sell, that's a different story.
Or if you are prohibited form owning firearms for some reason, that's a different story. But we have laws for those different stories and FedEx isn't the police, we do not have laws preventing honest people from pursuing something they want to do that isn't illegal. This is the crux, FedEx is basically saying "you shouldn't be doing this even though it's legal" even if that was not their intent, it's how it'll come across to a lot of people. I'd be willing to bet I can go order a mirror and a box of razorblades, or some "tobacco smoking devices" and they'll ship em. Not to mention the actual ready to go firearms.

It's absolutely true that if they don't ship it they can't be blamed or implicated for anything that happens with it, but it's a sad commentary on our society that this was even a possibility in the first place. That's what I get out of this more than anything else. It's just sad that there is a very real danger that some dickoff related to the "my hot mcd's coffee burned me" idiot might sue them for something.
That's a damn shame.
 
Ur_Mom said:
They are calling it "Ghost Gunner", so there is some reasoning behind the refusal.
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What could possibly go wrong with shipping weapons manufacturing technology that's all about making untraceable and undetectable guns?
 
heatlesssun said:
What could possibly go wrong with shipping weapons manufacturing technology that's all about making untraceable and undetectable guns?
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No guns are traceable, unless you force them to put a serial number on it. And those can be easily defaced. Anyways, this is really no a problem. In Canada they recently abolished gun registration for unrestricted rifles, which includes semi automatic weapons like the VZ-58 and Tavor. Assuming you have a license you can walk into a gas station, buy your rifle, and walk out. I don't think they even do instant background checks in Canada unlike the US. Guess what? No change in gun crime.

Regardless, it is rather easy to manufacture firearms. Plenty of other countries (such as China) will frequently fill the needs for those that need firearms without first needing to take a file to rub out the markings.
 
Just setup a warehouse across town with a different name, stick the product in a different box, label the box "milling machine", and ship it FedEx anyway.

Just FYI, guns should be untraceable. If you are legal to own them, nobody has any right to know what you own unless you want them to.
 
GORANKAR said:
Just setup a warehouse across town with a different name, stick the product in a different box, label the box "milling machine", and ship it FedEx anyway.

Just FYI, guns should be untraceable. If you are legal to own them, nobody has any right to know what you own unless you want them to.
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For real. It's not like you can hurt yourself or anyone else with them. Buncha nanny state whiners.
 
It's a milling machine, no more dangerous than any other milling machine. Unless it is one of those evil black milling machines. :rolleyes:
 
rewted said:
A screw driver is capable of putting together a bomb, what's the damn difference here?
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You don't have to build anything that can kill when the tool itself can do the same job, can use a screwdriver to kill someone. The 3d printer would be more difficult and costly.
 
heatlesssun said:
What could possibly go wrong with shipping weapons manufacturing technology that's all about making untraceable and undetectable guns?
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Undetectable? Does it create like, invisible guns or something?

GORANKAR said:
It's a milling machine, no more dangerous than any other milling machine. Unless it is one of those evil black milling machines. :rolleyes:
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High capacity assault milling machine. With a shoulder lathe that goes up.
 
heatlesssun said:
My guess is that FedEx's legal counsel sees it more the way I do. At any rate there's all kinds of business risk involved in shipping weapons manufacturing tools to convicted criminals.
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If FedEx's legal counsel has such a lack of understanding of milling and manufacturing technology as you do they should immediately be fired or prevented from rendering any judgment about milling or manufacturing machinery.

heatlesssun said:
True, but this is a bit different in that it's weapon manufacturing technology that mostly serves the purpose of circumventing any and all law enforcement.
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Again, you simply DO NOT understand what you are talking about. A dremel and a mill or a mini-mill do the EXACT same thing. None of these can circumvent "any and all law enforcement". Where do you make these things up at?
 
You can create a gun that hurts/kills by shipping some copper tubing and with vinegar and baking soda if you got the pressure up high enough but alas....those killer components are still being shipped
 
heatlesssun said:
Invisible to much gun detection technology, yes.
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Explain in your own words, no links or spending the next hour goggling the answers, exactly which "gun detection technology" and how such "gun detection" technology works to "detect" a gun, match a firearm to a projectile, and match a projectile to an individual. Then how this would "defeat" such techniques and how this is different from using any other material set, manufacturing technique, or instrument already available that does the exact same thing and is shipped daily by FedEx.And how these techniques fail with any firearm and why.
 
Real reason is FedEx want's to kill the 3D printer market because, why ship it when you can just print it. That is the real reason. They are afraid what the 3D printer market can cut into their profits.
 
TorxT3D said:
How hard is it to place an order and go for the drive. Texas is a central state, doesnt take more than 8-10hrs from either direction to drive there.

where theres a will, theres a way.
as a company that runs by numbers and image, i wouldnt support untraceable guns being on the street either.
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Do you realize that cities within the borders of Texas are 8+ hours from Austin, TX where Defense Distributed is located? Your sense of geography is a little off...okay, a lot off.
 
Paul_Johnson said:
Explain in your own words, no links or spending the next hour goggling the answers, exactly which "gun detection technology" and how such "gun detection" technology works to "detect" a gun, match a firearm to a projectile, and match a projectile to an individual. Then how this would "defeat" such techniques and how this is different from using any other material set, manufacturing technique, or instrument already available that does the exact same thing and is shipped daily by FedEx.And how these techniques fail with any firearm and why.
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It's a trap! lol

I don't believe the gentleman is quite aware of what the item in question is and does.
 
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