Federal Judge Clears Detroit Florist’s Delivery By Drone

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Having lived in metro Detroit my first thought was "people in Detroit buy flowers?"

But having watched the video it's obvious that isn't Detroit.
 

defunctdoormat

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Not sure why helicopters and aircraft are flying below 400 feet, except around airports, which should still be restricted. Even with terrain following radar, the AF aircraft I used to fly on stayed at 500 feet. People hate this idea because it's new, different and they're afraid. Change happens.
 

gerdawg

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People hate this idea because it's new, different and they're afraid. Change happens.

You'll say that until you end up with a drone going through your front windshield. I fly a lot of FPV quads and honestly, I don't want to see quads non-stop littering the sky for pizza delivers, flower delivery, grocery deliveries, beer deliveries, Amazon deliveries etc. It's going to get old real quick when you have about 200 drones flying over the top of your house all the time to deliver Joe Schmo's latest batch of Miller Lite.

In flying FPV there are also a few things that need to be addressed that still aren't, such as GPS spoofing, the volatility of lipo batteries and charging times, not having drones hitting power lines because the operator lost sight on approach due to EMF, or a hardware problem, etc. Not to mention making sure someone's cat or dog doesn't end up getting chewed up by a drone blade.

This has a long way to go still before companies should start trying to make this work for commercial reasons. Ultimately I fear it'll end up getting regulated heavily and I am starting to think that's not such a bad thing as when I look up I don't want to see a bunch of drones littering the sky.

As a side note - When it comes to the FAA all they are really looking to do is protect their planes and aircraft. I think they came at this pretty well positioned initially and I believe this judge is making a mistake by not allowing the FFA to have time to address what a problem drones are going to be for this country if they are allowed to go rampant. All it's going to take is one fly away drone (and it does happen and more than most would think) taking down a plane with a few hundred passengers to get people's attention.

If you were to search youtube today you'll see tons of idiots currently flying these things WAY above 400 ft. The fear is warranted IMO.
 

Xrave

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I think the judge was sympathetic to the florist not getting shot in Detroit during deliveries.
 

Spewn

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:rolleyes:

A drone can hit a helicopter or plane no problem.

And if you're flying your drones that high, you probably need to get clearance from the FAA. If planes are flying low enough that your drone at 100-feet up is able to hit them, they're probably doing something they're not supposed to be doing. I doubt this person will be allowed to deliver flowers by drone to an airport.
 

Tuthmose

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I don't want to see quads non-stop littering the sky for pizza delivers, flower delivery, grocery deliveries, beer deliveries, Amazon deliveries etc. It's going to get old real quick when you have about 200 drones flying over the top of your house all the time to deliver Joe Schmo's latest batch of Miller Lite.

^ This.

We've got actual pollution, we've got noise pollution, we've got light pollution . . . hey, let's add some drone pollution. In theory it's a cool idea. Once we reach gerdawg's scenario, it strikes me as a lot less cool. No thank you.
 

J3RK

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Hmm, sounds like the perfect time to start up my drone interception business. :D Now, when they start delivering something I actually want I will be all set!!! muahahaha!
 

Ducman69

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You'll say that until you end up with a drone going through your front windshield. I fly a lot of FPV quads and honestly, I don't want to see quads non-stop littering the sky for pizza delivers, flower delivery, grocery deliveries, beer deliveries, Amazon deliveries etc. It's going to get old real quick when you have about 200 drones flying over the top of your house all the time to deliver Joe Schmo's latest batch of Miller Lite.
Do you have 200 UPS trucks driving by your house? Why would replacing them with drones increase the traffic? In fact, it should decrease it, as they would travel a straight line only to their destination and back, instead of delivery trucks always driving past your house to get to other people.

And last I checked, a small electric quadcopter makes a HELL of a lot less noise a hundred feet up in the air, than a 7.3 liter cummins turbodiesel from a UPS truck at ground level driving by your house.

Not only that, but I'd love to see the reduced congestion on my commute to work, by eliminating as much ground deliveries as possible!
 

Ducman69

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And I'm not sure how I'd end up with a drone going through my windshield, as if they'd be flying around fast on the street at 4 feet off the ground.....

In any case, I bet you that delivery trucks on our roads will end up killing a lot more people each year than something that weighs as much as a duck! xD
 

Youn

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Having lived in metro Detroit my first thought was "people in Detroit buy flowers?"

But having watched the video it's obvious that isn't Detroit.

What makes you say all that? I've lived here all my life. People buy flowers and there are plenty of places that look like what's seen in the video...
 

Youn

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better yet, gun delivery drone to the downtown area :D

on new years people shoot some guns into the sky. some moments later you hear them fall like rain. just a warning in case you wanted to use drones on that day
 

MrRuckus

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Whats the turn around time on a downed drone? Looks like moving target practice.
 

gerdawg

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Do you have 200 UPS trucks driving by your house? Why would replacing them with drones increase the traffic? In fact, it should decrease it, as they would travel a straight line only to their destination and back, instead of delivery trucks always driving past your house to get to other people.

And last I checked, a small electric quadcopter makes a HELL of a lot less noise a hundred feet up in the air, than a 7.3 liter cummins turbodiesel from a UPS truck at ground level driving by your house.

Not only that, but I'd love to see the reduced congestion on my commute to work, by eliminating as much ground deliveries as possible!


My scenario was clearly not limited to UPS as previously noted. Obviously I don't have 200 UPS trucks driving by my house however it would much more feasible to believe that companies, in this crazy effort to increase a profit, would bypass using UPS now and start "shipping/flying" items out of their own local warehouses. Outside of that any "local" Joe Blow company WILL attempt to be shipping directly to the customer rather than hiring a driver that costs them time and money. Hence - This is where 200 drones will be flying all over the place.
 

gerdawg

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And I'm not sure how I'd end up with a drone going through my windshield, as if they'd be flying around fast on the street at 4 feet off the ground.....

In any case, I bet you that delivery trucks on our roads will end up killing a lot more people each year than something that weighs as much as a duck! xD

No offense but you don't seem to have much experience with high end drones. Even the high end drones are prone to failure, especially if not maintained frequently. How many Pizza shop owners are going to end up getting a few of these to cut out their drivers and increase profits for themselves through "charging for delivery via drone".

As for one falling through your windshield, when they do fail, they end up falling. This is gravity taking over here, which has been around a while and which doesn't really have anything to do with the limited scope of flying 4 feet off the ground.
 
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What makes you say all that? I've lived here all my life. People buy flowers and there are plenty of places that look like what's seen in the video...

If you consider Novi part of Detroit, or maybe if you're talking about the rich shoreline areas like Saint Clair or Gross Pointe then sure it looks like that... but pretty much everywhere else in the major Detroit area (pretty much South of 686, East of 96, and West of 94) is a dilapidated shithole that is much akin to a 3rd world country.

Very few people there would be buying flowers, as food stamps don't pay for them and what cash they have tends to go towards bling, hookers, and drugs...

Don't get me wrong, there is a certain charm in an abandoned, burnt out, crumbling city where the street lights and traffic lights haven't worked in decades and the sound of gun fire is as constant as the sirens of the police...

But the only really redeeming part of Detroit when I lived there was its music scene, but even that has apparently mostly left the city now with pretty much every other single person who had a chance.

Sorry, but as much as once I loved Detroit that place just needs to be nuked (and take Flint with it...)
 

Nenu

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I struggle to see how this can be allowed until at least a safety standard is established, and even then, this risk to population and property may be too great.
Then there is noise pollution.
And they are bound to have cameras, so privacy concerns spring up.
Which brings up security concerns if they can be hacked.
...

Do Judges have qualifications these days?
 

ShamisOMally

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And last I checked, a small electric quadcopter makes a HELL of a lot less noise a hundred feet up in the air, than a 7.3 liter cummins turbodiesel from a UPS truck at ground level driving by your house!

Most UPS delivery trucks are oversized straight 4 or small V6 cummins turbo diesels, not mammoth turbo diesels used in semi's etc

And ALL turbo diesels are loud, no matter the engine size, the reason being is that turbo diesels are known in the mechanical world as "Gulpers" because they pull in so much air, since most combustion of a diesel engine is air combustion (Up to 1 part fuel per 70 parts air if I remember correctly for high efficiency and high mileage/high power diesels), vs gasoline which is a more or less on average I think 1 part fuel per 14.3-15 parts gasoline, but I think most gasoline engines today are 1 part fuel per 14.64 parts air these days

Anyways, this causes diesel engines to roar because they use such high air volume to do compression, the funniest part being is that because diesel compression is so damn stable they last far longer than gasoline engines by and by, even though they are under higher pressure, the reason being is because they output far far far more power at a far far far lower RPM, meaning you can gear transmission ratios far higher, which leads to less torsion force warping, less cylinder wear etc etc

Why does everyone drive gasoline engines? Beats me, hell I own one and I still want a diesel, I guess just everyone wanted to buy gasoline engines because gasoline engines were forced on the consumer public by the by. Doesn't help because diesels are so damn reliable, car manufactures now charge through the roof on them (Something like 7 grand premium) just because they last so long vs their gasoline counterparts
 
Joined
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Most UPS delivery trucks are oversized straight 4 or small V6 cummins turbo diesels, not mammoth turbo diesels used in semi's etc

And ALL turbo diesels are loud, no matter the engine size, the reason being is that turbo diesels are known in the mechanical world as "Gulpers" because they pull in so much air, since most combustion of a diesel engine is air combustion (Up to 1 part fuel per 70 parts air if I remember correctly for high efficiency and high mileage/high power diesels), vs gasoline which is a more or less on average I think 1 part fuel per 14.3-15 parts gasoline, but I think most gasoline engines today are 1 part fuel per 14.64 parts air these days

Anyways, this causes diesel engines to roar because they use such high air volume to do compression, the funniest part being is that because diesel compression is so damn stable they last far longer than gasoline engines by and by, even though they are under higher pressure, the reason being is because they output far far far more power at a far far far lower RPM, meaning you can gear transmission ratios far higher, which leads to less torsion force warping, less cylinder wear etc etc

Why does everyone drive gasoline engines? Beats me, hell I own one and I still want a diesel, I guess just everyone wanted to buy gasoline engines because gasoline engines were forced on the consumer public by the by. Doesn't help because diesels are so damn reliable, car manufactures now charge through the roof on them (Something like 7 grand premium) just because they last so long vs their gasoline counterparts

Own a diesel trunk in the Northern parts of the country in weather like we've had this winter and we'll see how long you still sing their praises ;)

Diesel engines have their advantages, but they have just as many downsides.

At this point it's kinda a moot discussion though, as we really should be moving towards all electric motors and banning any and all combustion motors within the next few decades...

But that would take being progressive and pro-active, so we'll more likely wait until the gas dries up, commerce and industry grinds to a half, people are starving because no one can afford food (let alone fuel), everyone is sick due to the declinging environment... and then we'll just start a few more wars to buy us a few more years of captured resources so we won't have to risk changing the "American way of life" in any major way...
 

Youn

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If you consider Novi part of Detroit, or maybe if you're talking about the rich shoreline areas like Saint Clair or Gross Pointe then sure it looks like that...
Commerce Township to be more specific... which is very nice IMO

anyways, I think downtown detroit is much nicer then it used to be 5-10 years ago... no getting nuked on the way to blockbuster - that was pretty common in the 80s iirc :p
 

Elios

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i have a dog in this fight
and it is SILL NOT LEGAL
its was not a Judge as you would think of one but a admin law judge
FAA appealed the ruling and the ruling is not binding unless upheld

tl:dr
fly at your own risk
ex post facto is legal in US admin law the FAA IS watching
 

Elios

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oh and the case goes be for the NTSB next expect them to rule in the FAAs favor
 

Elios

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btw here is the appeal
http://www.faa.gov/news/press_releases/news_story.cfm?newsId=15894
WASHINGTON, D.C.--The Federal Aviation Administration today issued a notice appealing a decision by an NTSB Administrative Law Judge in the civil penalty case, Huerta v. Pirker.
"The FAA is appealing the decision of an NTSB Administrative Law Judge to the full National Transportation Safety Board, which has the effect of staying the decision until the Board rules. The agency is concerned that this decision could impact the safe operation of the national airspace system and the safety of people and property on the ground.
"
 

Hornet

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And I'm not sure how I'd end up with a drone going through my windshield, as if they'd be flying around fast on the street at 4 feet off the ground.....

In any case, I bet you that delivery trucks on our roads will end up killing a lot more people each year than something that weighs as much as a duck! xD

I believe the concern is about what happens when it fails. Any vehicle that flies have very little room for mechanical failure. If something goes wrong, they don't just roll to a halt at the side of a road, the goes crashing down.

The reason why air travel is statistically the safest transportation is due to all the maintenance and check done for safety purposes, and these are mandated by regulations and standards.

Now drones are less complex than a commercial aircraft, but we have to consider that if we have small business running these drones by themself, how much are they willing to spend to ensure their drones are perfectly safe all the time.

Not saying it shouldn't be allowed, but there should be at least some kind of standard in place to ensure business owner doesn't cut corners.
 
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