FDA Chief Threatens to Take E-cigarettes off the Market

dfedders said:
Enforcing is a bit difficult on the parents. Vapes don't smell like cigarettes do, and the kids don't typically vape in front of their parents. :) If you have a middle-school kid, I would highly recommend talking about it now before its too late.
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here is the entire problem in a nutshell.
if you have middle school kids and you have not ALREADY BEEN talking to them about this kind of stuff its already too late and you need to learn how to parent better.

in reality the FDA is doing their version of 'feel good legislation' which is designed for maximum visual impact with zero actual benefit because "FOR THE KIDS OMG!!!" which is 100% useless garbage and rarely even makes any sense.


thats just my person opinion though
 
Derfman said:
You could market it as fart flavored, kids will always do stuff they shouldn't. I don't vape, but I feel like there is a lot of lobbying money going into this push for regulation.

I don't see flavored tobacco being included in on this either, are kids able to even buy e-cigs anywhere in the US under aged?
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Can you back up your claim about "lots of lobbying money" going into pushing for regulation of vaping? To be honest, it sounds like you just pulled that out of your ass.
 
GlowingGhoul said:
Can you back up your claim about "lots of lobbying money" going into pushing for regulation of vaping? To be honest, it sounds like you just pulled that out of your ass.
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considering that the large tobacco companies actually own the largest e-cig/juice companies already, i have no problem believing that there is tons of lobbying money being thrown around at the issue on BOTH sides.

blu and vuse is owned by reynolds, altria owns markten and 35% of JUUL, and markten stopped selling XL. soooooo yeah, zero doubt on any claims about lobbying money because its the same dog and pony show thats been going on with traditional tobacco for the last 20-30 years and i dont think anyone really needs to re-hash where all that money has been coming from on both sides.
 
lol...wait...this devices that got me off regular cigarettes are now a threat to teens?

Here's an idea. STOP SELLING IT TO TEENS.

I'm about 90% healthier due to vaping. And working my way down in nic levels to quit for good. I know countless people that have quit cigarettes due to vaping.

Fuck these government assholes.
 
harbingerofdoom said:
if you have middle school kids and you have not ALREADY BEEN talking to them about this kind of stuff its already too late and you need to learn how to parent better.
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Yep, I started smoking in grade 6 I think, talk to them sooner rather than later.
 
filip said:
These fuckers need to get off my shit! I don't give a fuck about the kids!

Used to smoke close to a pack a day and these fuckers want me to go at it again by taking away my vaping. Fuck that shit, these fuckers and vaping is bad for kids, tide is bad for kids too let get Gronk to say "vaping bad me no like, you no vape."
I remember all the bullshit these fuckers have been pulling to stop vaping sales and it is on a federal level WE the fucking people have no say in this shit, fucking cigarette lobbying companies are probably paying to shut the market down so it has a high entry level so they can be the only game in town and cash this cow and my tax money is going to help them :mad:.
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No, please, don't hold back... Tell us how you really feel...
 
Right. And the Washington lobbyists are ineffective. Big-ass companies run everything in this country.

Wake up, folks.
 
Patton187 said:
Translated to we have to get the small players out.
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That'd kill the cigs market which would put the tobacco farmers out of biz too.

Those are 2 very strong lobbys to overcome so probably not going to happen anytime soon. Maybe inside a decade or 2 if smokers continue to decline though.
 
Bureaucrats like this just can't help themselves. They want to control everything. They need to keep their noses out of the lives of law abiding citizens.
 
mesyn191 said:
That'd kill the cigs market which would put the tobacco farmers out of biz too.

Those are 2 very strong lobbys to overcome so probably not going to happen anytime soon. Maybe inside a decade or 2 if smokers continue to decline though.
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The tobacco farmers are already switching crops because the smoking market is collapsing and that nicotine isn't coming from tobacco. The nicotine in vape pens comes from tomato plants. The farmers are already adapting, like humans do. Those that don't adapt will go out of business, like humans do, because they aren't fit for the market. Don't fret about the farmers.

The tobacco companies, on the other hand, aren't so quick to adapt. they're so big and inflexible to change that this change hurts them. They can't avoid it, though.
 
Vapers :rolleyes: :ROFLMAO:
Cigarette smokers changing to vaping are about as sad as it get, and that's clubbing baby seals with nail studded baseball bats sad.
 
GSDragoon said:
and Alcohol
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Been there, done that. Result was a bunch of Speakeasies and newly wealthy crime families. Too many people vaping for a ban to be very effective at this point. Folks will use the Internet to make home made vaping supplies.
 
Do it for the chillrenz:rolleyes:

I'm so damn sick of freedom being limited because someone else can't raise their kids properly. I don't even vape. If vaping in your teens caused super cancer that kills by age 30 and we have a whole generation of teens die, I still don't give a damn. People get to do stupid things and die because of it. That's the price of freedom.
 
nysmo said:
Thats fine and dandy but why dont we *also* disrupt the industry's attempt to *market* to minors?
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If they don't sell to minors, and thus minors can't buy, then the marketing is irrelevant since it becomes a waste of money. No company is going to spend money advertising to a market that doesn't exist.
 
Merc1138 said:
If they don't sell to minors, and thus minors can't buy, then the marketing is irrelevant since it becomes a waste of money. No company is going to spend money advertising to a market that doesn't exist.
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Agreed. Additionally, flavor is a matter of function as it relates to an orally consumed, adult choice, luxury product. Making it taste like strawberries is not marketing to kids. Were strawberries suppose to start tasting like shit after we turned 18? If so, I didn't get the memo.
 
Basically the big cigarette firms like Philip Morris got totally caught out by vaping. They had nothing and they lost a big chunk of sales. Plus it made smoking look even worse.

The big tobacco firms like Philip Morris now have their new IQOS system that super heats the tobacco (not burning) and gives what they say is a smoother more longer lasting hit of nicotine. They argue that vaping doesn't give the lasting hit a cigarette does and basically state that vapers will sit sucking sticky steam into their lungs every waking hour if they could, as it doesn't give that same buzz.

They are stating that they want to phase cigarettes out of the western market in the next 10 to 15 years. This will move smokers over to IQOS. A few friends of mine have been using it and they really like it, a couple didn't.

So they will be pushing money to politicians to get the vaping alternative put out of the market. Helping them push IQOS.

How do I know this? I unfortunately know a Philip Morris sales guy. This was all verbatim from him.

I've never smoked personally. Never seen the attraction.
 
RAutrey said:
Agreed. Additionally, flavor is a matter of function as it relates to an orally consumed, adult choice, luxury product. Making it taste like strawberries is not marketing to kids. Were strawberries suppose to start tasting like shit after we turned 18? If so, I didn't get the memo.
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Clearly once you turned 18, you're no longer allowed to drink soda, have any oatmeal for breakfast that isn't plain, no cereal except shredded wheat, etc. since there's no point in anything else.
 
Included vaping in the smoking clause of leases, and updated signs in laundry room and other common areas middle of last year. Vaping and those that vape, are even more annoying to people than smokers. Inconsiderate dippers are still the worst though.
Much as I loathe getting the FDA involved in anything. If something is being sold for use as a direct inhalant, it needs to follow the same rules and receive the same scrutiny as other products sold as direct inhalants.
 
Hakaba said:
The other day my wife informed me that she was contacted by our sons teacher informing us that they caught two kids smoking outside during recess. The following day my other sons teacher contacted me that they found cigarettes and a lighter in a students backpack. The only reason this kinda blows my mind is that my kids are in 3rd/4th grade...
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Wow! I have a kid in the 5th grade - I've never heard of any tobaccos products being used at the school. I have another kid in middle school - they have had some kids get busted smoking in the bathroom. From my memory as a young lad, junior high/middle school is about the age I remember people starting to smoke. Maybe as far back as the 6th grade for the very rebellious.
 
sfsuphysics said:
I assume vaping leaves some smell on the person? Maybe not as much as cigarettes do, but something? Yeah that's literally the easiest way for parents to catch kids.
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Doesn't leave a trace. That's the beauty of it!

TangledThornz said:
I can't stand the people, mainly neckbeards and hipsters, that vape so I'm OK with this.
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I was a 25+ a day man and vaping saved my ass from that

Exavior said:
did you both quit for real or replace cigarettes with vaping while still getting your nicotine fix? There is a big difference there. If you just swapped out one for the other you didn't really quit. You went from one form to another. No more than somebody switching from 2 cans of coke a day to 5 glasses of good old fashion southern sweet tea a day cut sugar out of their diet.

I see the problem here being that vaping is being advertised to people as being far safer than normal cigarettes, or in some cases being said to be 100% safe. You even have the companies that just sell flavored oils for people to "smoke" so you are encouraging people to use the devices. Which I see as a say to get younger people to start doing it as nobody in their 50s+ rushing out to buy fruit flavors or things like cotton candy, gummy bear, bubble gum, peppermint or other candy flavored oils. So I don't see an issue with them being treated 100% the same way as cigarettes. They aren't being pulled off the market forever, they just want to make it so that they have to be regulated through the FDA the same as what tobacco itself would be so would be pulled and forced to through the approval process to get back on the market. For anyone not doing anything wrong that shouldn't be an issue and they should be back on the market pretty quickly.
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When I switched to vaping I had the worst cold *immediately* after and a freakish hacking death cough for 3 weeks at least. Pretty hard to doubt how much less bad for you vaping is after that.

Riccochet said:
lol...wait...this devices that got me off regular cigarettes are now a threat to teens?

Here's an idea. STOP SELLING IT TO TEENS.

I'm about 90% healthier due to vaping. And working my way down in nic levels to quit for good. I know countless people that have quit cigarettes due to vaping.

Fuck these government assholes.
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What strength are you at now? I started at 18mg (yeah I know) and am now down to 6.
 
Merc1138 said:
If they don't sell to minors, and thus minors can't buy, then the marketing is irrelevant since it becomes a waste of money. No company is going to spend money advertising to a market that doesn't exist.
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If companies didnt advertise to markets that do not yet exist how do they develop new markets.....
 
wizzi01 said:
I have been around smokers all my life. My buddy took up vaping and that crap had my lungs hurting after he exhaled once.
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Ever been next to a car full of vapers? Pulled up next to one, one day, and with my windows down. All of a sudden this cloud fills my car and I cant see shit and the stink was terrible.

Looked over and it was a bunch of high school kids, just laughing their asses off at what they accomplished.
 
STEvil said:
why?
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Cuz they do so becuz vaping are not as unhealthy ( at least the vapers in my own family think that )
I assume others might also switch over as Vaping are cheaper than cigarettes.
Yet others might change over as smoke tasting of cherries and what the hell not are better than the foul tobacco taste.

But in general i think they all think its more healthy, and they are spineless addicts and cant quit their habit.

And before you get going, no i am not a health freak, i am a ex smoker and yes my body lag severely under that today with significant lesser lounge capacity.
But its not like i care much, people can smoke what the hell they want IMO just don't go thinking becuz you have replaced one well documented evil with something less documented that you are healthy or quitting.

I quit a around 3 packs a day / +3 decade long cigarette addiction spiced with a 10 joints a day addiction, with nothing, and i did so from one day to the next, and it was easy, i just promised myself that this is the last cigarette and this are the last joint, and i always keep what i promise.
It wasent fun for a few weeks, but that's the price of being stupid.

I also quit drinking alcohol regularly before i was 25, as that stuff made me do even more stupid sh,,,,, stuff, after all i was not stupid on all bases.

Want to stop,,,,,, Just do it ! Fawk patches - inhalers and chewing gums, that's just BS to feed of weak ass addicted people, i consider those companies that sell that stuff parasites.

Thats just my opinion.
 
Exavior said:
did you both quit for real or replace cigarettes with vaping while still getting your nicotine fix? There is a big difference there. If you just swapped out one for the other you didn't really quit. You went from one form to another. No more than somebody switching from 2 cans of coke a day to 5 glasses of good old fashion southern sweet tea a day cut sugar out of their diet.
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They didn't say they quit nicotine. They said they quit smoking. Had they said they quit nicotine then your sugar comparison would make sense.
Smoking is from a combustible. Vapor is from evaporation. If you exhale vape into a heat source it will quickly return to a gas state and disappear. That is why you can get more clouds in a cold environment.


Exavior said:
Which I see as a say to get younger people to start doing it as nobody in their 50s+ rushing out to buy fruit flavors or things like cotton candy, gummy bear, bubble gum, peppermint or other candy flavored oils.
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"RUSHING" No, but I believe that is a hyperbole to help make your point. I think you would be surprised how many older people are switching to vaping. Or quitting smoking by vaping.
 
Paul_Johnson said:
If companies didnt advertise to markets that do not yet exist how do they develop new markets.....
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If the market in question is minors, and there is no market because it's not possible to sell to them, there's nothing to develop. I'm not even sure what you're saying, since this entire discussion is based off of a supposed market of minors buying ecigs.
 
I think what attracts many young people to vaping is the narcissitically huge "Look at me!" cloud of vapor you blow when using some devices. It gets them attention and annoys others, giving e-cigs a bad reputation.
 
Vaping always looked a bit too much like tokin' on robot dick for me to try. As far as I'm concerned, people can blow C-3PO all they want, so long as they are 18 year old or more.
 
R_Type said:
What strength are you at now? I started at 18mg (yeah I know) and am now down to 6.
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Started vaping again in October last year at 6mg. Down to 3mg now. I'll step down to 1.5mg in another week or two.
 
I have yet to see one of these mythical "Teen Advertisements" they are talking about. The real problem is that cigarettes are taxed to the hilt. State/Fed need some more cash, toss another sin tax on! They want to classify e-cigs as a tobacco product even if their isn't any in it so they can get that sweet sweet tax revenue. Remember, if you hear the phrase "For the Children!" it's a scam.
 
Merc1138 said:
If the market in question is minors, and there is no market because it's not possible to sell to them, there's nothing to develop. I'm not even sure what you're saying, since this entire discussion is based off of a supposed market of minors buying ecigs.
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You said "No company is going to spend money advertising to a market that doesn't exist". Companies clearly do though. It is how they develop new markets and generate brand identity. The market in question may well be minors. Looking at WKA, or Pop Warner, or Little League. Look at the companies that sponsor them but sell products they can not legally use yet. Why? To develop new customers when they can use them.
 
And who really cares if kids are smoking or drinking or whatever? That's parental responsibility. All this can't sell it to you if you're under 18 bullshit. Your kids will do it whether there is a law or not if you don't know how to properly raise them. They'll probably still do it if you do properly raise them.

News flash. Kids are dumb. Really dumb. They do dumb things. All the time. I was once a kid. I did dumb things. Every single person was and did.

I can't take the for the children shit any more.
 
Merc1138 said:
If they don't sell to minors, and thus minors can't buy, then the marketing is irrelevant since it becomes a waste of money. No company is going to spend money advertising to a market that doesn't exist.
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Cigarette companies did it for years despite it being illegal to sell to minors. Who do you think Joe Camel was aimed at?
 
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