FCC May Vote Next Month on Change to Broadband Definition

Spaceninja said:
What does this do other than change a number? Oh yeah, nothing. This won't magically increase speeds for anyone. It is a classification. When they bumped the numbers in 2015 it didn't allow a friend of mine who can't get DSL, even though his neighbor 1/4 down the road can, to magically get the service. AT&T just didn't want to expand for one customer and there weren't and never will be anymore potential customers past him.

Seems like people just want to freak out about everything these days. Don't worry, there will be something else for you to shake your fists in anger at in a few days.
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no because the ISP will use the lowering of a number to get more money out of customers. If you get more than the standard, they will charge more because its awesomer.
if they add cell data into the mix it just gives the ISPs even more reason to push wireless internet which will = more money for them because of low data caps. they want to do this anyway but gives them more reason.
 
Wierdo said:
Keep the rust belt down FCC, we don't need modern jobs there.
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cyberguyz said:
Apparently the FCC does not in believe actually working toward a goal.
Oh well, goal post is too high for you, lower it and give yourself a pat on the back for a job well done.
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Zarathustra[H] said:
That being said, it is pretty clear that the current regime at the FCC is taking their 3-2 majority as an opportunity to as quickly as possible screw over consumers and line the pockets of the ISP/telecom industry as much as they can. They aren't even trying to hide it anymore.
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I am confused here... How is this actually screwing anyone over? Part of the problem with current regulations is definitions. If you now are classifying more as broadband and so they will fall under more regulation, how is that bad?
 
At my adress i have a choice of 5 different providers.
Currently i have 100/20 with no data cap and i pay $14.8 a month.
Two years ago it cost me 3 times as much. Four years ago half the bandwidth cost me about 70 bucks a month.

Looks like you americans are going to go the opposite direction.

Oh btw. We also have net neutrality here and noone is talking about getting rid of it.
 
Oh yeah, forgot to add that we're one of those socialist countries with free health care and such.
 
NoOther said:
I am confused here... How is this actually screwing anyone over? Part of the problem with current regulations is definitions. If you now are classifying more as broadband and so they will fall under more regulation, how is that bad?
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Because the ISPs were given money to roll out infrastructure for broadband to the entire country. They have not rolled it out, and instead want the FCC to redefine 'broadband' so they can say "look, everyone now has 'broadband' so we're done", all while they keep the 100's of millions they were paid from our taxes. Does that make sense now?

Oh, and lets not forget they were claiming that NN regulations were killing their ability to roll out the infrastructure. Funny how that argument went POOF the second it was repealed.....
 
Biznatch said:
Because the ISPs were given money to roll out infrastructure for broadband to the entire country. They have not rolled it out, and instead want the FCC to redefine 'broadband' so they can say "look, everyone now has 'broadband' so we're done", all while they keep the 100's of millions they were paid from our taxes. Does that make sense now?

Oh, and lets not forget they were claiming that NN regulations were killing their ability to roll out the infrastructure. Funny how that argument went POOF the second it was repealed.....
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I am sorry but which money are you talking about? You will have to be more specific and show links to the actual requirements that stipulated what it was they were being paid for. Not to mention that redefining of broadband is directly related to that.
 
Dekoth-E- said:
Sorry that post was on the face so dumb that I assumed it was a troll.

Are you seriously arguing that cellular service should be considered broadband? Have you lived under a rock the past decade while cell providers have gone out of their way to fuck people over?
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Go look up the speeds of 5G then come back.
 
Sounds gloomy and bad, like they took the internet away. They haven't yet. I honestly don't think that small data and counter data caps will pop as plans. Let's see how much they push for and actually get. Monopolizing this isn't a good fiscal policy for the entire industry.
 
lcpiper said:
Go look up the speeds of 5G then come back.
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Yeah I remember how exciting it was to go from 3g to 4g. I got (in off peak hours) about a 10% speed increase. So even if 5g lives up to its specs, it'll still be $100/20GB or so I'd imagine (prices go up not down in rural areas in my experience).o

edit: Oh and my plan started as unlimited, now they slow it way down at 22GB so it gets worse and yeah like I can sue them for breach of contract.
 
nutzo said:
Sure, it's much more important that we have 100's of high paid bureaucrats back in Washington making up numbers that will never be implemented in the real world.
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Not hundreds. "Nearly 30,000 rank-and-file federal employees who received more than $190,823 out-earned each of the 50 state governors ... a total of 406,960 federal employees made six-figure incomes in fiscal 2016 – that’s roughly one in five federal employees ... at 78 departments and independent agencies, the average employee made $100,000 or more.”

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...s-30000-feds-earn-more-than-any-governor.html
 
WhoMe said:
Yeah I remember how exciting it was to go from 3g to 4g. I got (in off peak hours) about a 10% speed increase. So even if 5g lives up to its specs, it'll still be $100/20GB or so I'd imagine (prices go up not down in rural areas in my experience).
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Yes, but the move from 4g to 5g should be a bit different. I haven't been following as closely lately what has ended up, but initially there was pressure from the government to make it a more open spec and that telecomms were going to have to share at least some access on their 5g equipment so that the coverage was better for everyone. Had a guy I worked on that did his thesis on the 5g network plans. Was pretty interesting.
 
NoOther said:
I am sorry but which money are you talking about? You will have to be more specific and show links to the actual requirements that stipulated what it was they were being paid for. Not to mention that redefining of broadband is directly related to that.
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I'm not here to spoon feed you information, but here, this should get you started at least:
 
Bigbacon said:
no because the ISP will use the lowering of a number to get more money out of customers. If you get more than the standard, they will charge more because its awesomer.
if they add cell data into the mix it just gives the ISPs even more reason to push wireless internet which will = more money for them because of low data caps. they want to do this anyway but gives them more reason.
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Except that the broadband providers just raise the rates every year because they can. So it doesn't really matter what the classification is. Currently I have a 50/5 that I pay $50 a month for. When I started it was a 35/2 for the same price. When they phased out the lower tier internet I got a free bump in speed.

Sucks that you have a shitty ISP.
 
NoOther said:
Yes, but the move from 4g to 5g should be a bit different..
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I've been hearing how we are going to get something great for years now (satellites, 4g, delivery though electrical) so I'm a bit jaded. I always hope, but expect nothing. This is a mountain area so while I get the 4g people just down the hill get nothing...I doubt 5g will help much as they don't seem interested in adding new cell sites. There is a wpireless carrier here but their service is slower than 3g and expensive (though uncapped). Someone wanted to move in here with a better wireless service (I think was like 15 down) but the CA PUC said we already had great internet (i.e. they were paid off by our Rural electric coop who have that crap wireless service...oh and charge $600 installation fee to put an antenna in your window and run an Ethernet cable to your computer).
 
This Reddit user who allegedly is in the know, intimately describes what is transpiring:

*tl;dr: This is part of a five step process to turn broadband data in the US into the monetization platform cable had. This is due to cord cutting. Source : multiple contacts in the industry including myself to an extent *

Edit: Step 3 is happening way sooner than expected. Check out the video in another reddit thread and let me know if you notice anything interesting about the language used at the end

Most people are missing the bigger picture here, and it's not about slowing speeds across the board.

The real goal here is to get all data under one umbrella, then impose data caps (extremely low ones), then use the repeal of Net Neutrality to push cable-like packages for things like Netflix and Twitch to have those sites avoid counting against the cap.

The push to get all mobile and otherwise non-broadband data classified as broadband is to assure that any data you use on any device counts against a cap.

The slow and imminent death of cable is the cause of this. The reason ISPs didn't start down this path earlier was because cord cutting wasn't nearly as prevalent five years ago, and companies still didn't have a clear cut path to monetizing the internet.

So, this is just the next step. Look for language about caps to come up after midterms, and for aggressive bills to be pushed through allowing very low data caps nationwide.

You will also see some sort of push to completely remove the possibility of start up ISPs. This will take form in an infrastructure bill severely limiting access to poles and underground junctions by new companies without direct permission from the existing ISPs that have cable on those poles.

Step 1: repealing Net Neutrality. This allows them to offer packages that don't count against a data cap.

Step 2: push to classify all data under one umbrella, so all data counts against said cap.

Step 3: eliminate the possibility of local ISP startups by making access to infrastructure either impossible, unreasonably expensive, or take far too much time for a new company to feasibly compete. Edit: To clarify, and to take from another post that I wrote before I saw the new video trying to propagate against local startup/municipal ISPs:

As to the infrastructure side start looking for ads and bills being pushed to "focus on local safety and security" and to "improve infrastructure and roads", these are ways to pass things that don't let upstarts near the junctions, poles, and do the required splicing to actually get access to the existing network.

Step 4: implement data caps. This will be the time where aggressive shilling will take place on the form of "everyone is using so much internet we have to. You can't just let these people take your internet!"

Step 5: this is the end game that we are talking about when NN got thrown out. Majority of plans will have a 10-20 GB data plan monthly. Going over will be extremely expensive. Packages will be offered for different websites to not count against that cap. This is where you can expect to pay over 100$ a month for just internet for the same speeds you have now for unlimited access to only certain sites. Torrenting will clearly be hit extremely hard here.

Source: Have family who work in the industry and also work for an electrical contractor who does work for some ISPs, the plans are starting to get out.

edit: Clarified the infrastructure part as its actually immediately relevant due to another post on the front page as we speak.
 
5G is so vastly different than 4G, it isn't going to solve a broadband crisis. In fact, suggesting as such is a joke that only an out of touch moron would think up to lie about. Please show me where 5G was mandated, i can only find where hey mentioned it, this shit is going ahead regardless of words he speaks of. My friend is a cell tech over a northeastern area of texas and louisiana, they're running a lot of fiber prior to any mandates by any administration in preparation to turn up for using with 5G. The problem with 5G is the range. It's short range high frequency, Millimeter wave as it's aptly called. The only way it works is with MILLIONS of small hubs putting out data connections, think small cell towers in literally every neighborhood across the united states. That kind of expenditure would be FUCKING HILARIOUSLY EXPENSIVE. It isn't going to happen everywhere, it certainly will be only targeted at the largest population concentrations, and overcrowded 4G will be left to the rest of the country.

Almost forgot, 5G, since it's ultra high energy microwave, has not been proven safe at all.
 
Ski said:
This Reddit user who allegedly is in the know, intimately describes what is transpiring:

*tl;dr: This is part of a five step process to turn broadband data in the US into the monetization platform cable had. This is due to cord cutting. Source : multiple contacts in the industry including myself to an extent *.
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While I don't usually buy into unsourced conspiracy theories, this does sound about right. As you say the first steps have already been carried out. Plus we've seen limited attempts at this already (charging Netflix etc.).

Well maybe this will boost the blu-ray market. Now if someone would just come up with a 4k blu ripper. Funny I've been ripping my discs for over 10 years, we don't seem to be making much progress (and from what I've seen of streaming 4k ripping is still the only way to get top quality).
 
If it is going the way an anon is saying, it would t surprise me. The government would intervene and prevent a monopoly from dying out by regulating the shit out of new players.
 
NoOther said:
Yes, but the move from 4g to 5g should be a bit different. I haven't been following as closely lately what has ended up, but initially there was pressure from the government to make it a more open spec and that telecomms were going to have to share at least some access on their 5g equipment so that the coverage was better for everyone. Had a guy I worked on that did his thesis on the 5g network plans. Was pretty interesting.
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Is still wireless. Will be limited by wireless EM physics. Actual delivered bandwidth won't really improve much. 5G is like when QCOM says their newest modem will do 1Gb/s when the actual reality is 10s of mb if no one else is alive. AKA wireless looks great in test chambers, not so much the real world.
 
WhoMe said:
While I don't usually buy into unsourced conspiracy theories, this does sound about right. As you say the first steps have already been carried out. Plus we've seen limited attempts at this already (charging Netflix etc.).

Well maybe this will boost the blu-ray market. Now if someone would just come up with a 4k blu ripper. Funny I've been ripping my discs for over 10 years, we don't seem to be making much progress (and from what I've seen of streaming 4k ripping is still the only way to get top quality).
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It makes complete sense honestly, by changing the definition of mobile and broadband and dsl to mean the same thing, it opens sooooooooooo many creative ways to stick it to the consumer. And because 4k consumes so much bandwidth as it is, it's only natural they (Comcast specifically) will attempt to lower the cap or figure out a way to have the customer charge more in order to raise it, just like they do with mobile.
 
Yes, let's voluntarily set ourselves back a few years because a few giant companies don't want to spend money on infrastructure. They need all the money they can stockpile for political campaigns against anyone who threatens their status quo.

The whole idea of the definition change is that it allows them to say "see, we DO have competition in this market" (since the bar will have been lowered enough to allow the tin+string to count as broadband) when they get push back for being a oligopoly.
 
Hope the IRS lets taxpayers adopt this way to meet goals! If I don't want to pay my tax bill, can I lower it 60%, pay that and call it good?
 
Ok, I have a question: What is the big problem with lowering the definition of "broadband" to 10Mbps? We had 10MBps via Comcast for a couple years until Comcast got rid of that tier, and it was more than enough to handle at least three people streaming video at the same time. I get that we're all tech-savvy folks around here who are downloading hundreds of Linux ISO's every day. But when people are claiming that lowering the definition to 10Mbps will leave rural and/or poor people with expensive or really bad connections, I have a hard time following that logic. If you're trying to use the internet to gain an education to pull yourself out of poverty, I don't see how having "only" 10Mbps is going to hurt you.
 
Mohonri said:
Ok, I have a question: What is the big problem with lowering the definition of "broadband" to 10Mbps? We had 10MBps via Comcast for a couple years until Comcast got rid of that tier, and it was more than enough to handle at least three people streaming video at the same time. I get that we're all tech-savvy folks around here who are downloading hundreds of Linux ISO's every day. But when people are claiming that lowering the definition to 10Mbps will leave rural and/or poor people with expensive or really bad connections, I have a hard time following that logic. If you're trying to use the internet to gain an education to pull yourself out of poverty, I don't see how having "only" 10Mbps is going to hurt you.
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Lets change the definition of "access to healthcare" to be "buying aspirin at a pharmacy"...
Lets change the definition of "treason" to "not supporting everything the government does"...
etc.
 
Dullard said:
What difference does it make if your service is defined as broadband or not? Calling it broadband/not broadband doesn't change the actual speed of your service.

And whee! Good news for me I guess. My service just jumped from 1/10th broadband to 1/4 broadband - all for only $53/mo!
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Sadly I am still at about 1/8 broadband spec since 1.5Mb down is all that is available here 5 miles out of the city and two houses past me is only dialup.

lcpiper said:
Go look up the speeds of 5G then come back.
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I don't have to look up 5G, since 4G is barely available in my area and if I am lucky I would be able to connect to 3G, which is why I still just use a plain flip phone.
 
Mohonri said:
Ok, I have a question: What is the big problem with lowering the definition of "broadband" to 10Mbps? We had 10MBps via Comcast for a couple years until Comcast got rid of that tier, and it was more than enough to handle at least three people streaming video at the same time. I get that we're all tech-savvy folks around here who are downloading hundreds of Linux ISO's every day. But when people are claiming that lowering the definition to 10Mbps will leave rural and/or poor people with expensive or really bad connections, I have a hard time following that logic. If you're trying to use the internet to gain an education to pull yourself out of poverty, I don't see how having "only" 10Mbps is going to hurt you.
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So people in rural areas are all poor or only want to get edicated? Gee how about access to streaming HD and gosh 4k, or being able to download large games (or hell even medium sized games)? Or put it another way why should anyone anywhere want more than 10 down? But what would I know I'm just poor and uneducated because I live in a rural area.
 
Not hard to connect at least a few of the dots.

1. FCC chairman is ex legal rep for wireless company-hhhmmm what possible conflict of interests?!?
2. NN-opens gates for increased tiered profits seemingly would include all ISPS(landline or wireless)
3. Changes definition of broadband that also seems to include physical but obviously favors wireless providers.
4. Has also stated to change requirements for infrastructure specs which will likely also favor wireless providers somehow.

Next I'm just waiting for him say how any physical connection is damaging the environment and we need to switch exclusively to cell providers and be thankful they give us any service at all.
 
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No one was actually doing anymore than pretending to get broadband to rural areas anyways.

Sure I would be upset if there was an order to get broadband to rural areas and we were actually doing it. As it is, the requirement has been largely ignored and nothing is really changing other than some wording in some legislation that was being ignored anyway.
 
UrielDagda said:
This screws those rural voters that voted for Trump in droves the hardest because companies won't bother to extend decent fiber in those areas now. He's giving them a thorough assfucking as thanks for the votes.
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Trump Accomplishments in Year 1:

Jobs and the economy

  • Passage of the tax reform bill providing $5.5 billion in cuts and repealing the Obamacare mandate.
  • Increase of the GDP above 3 percent.
  • Creation of 1.7 million new jobs, cutting unemployment to 4.1 percent.
  • Saw the Dow Jones reach record highs.
  • A rebound in economic confidence to a 17-year high.
  • A new executive order to boost apprenticeships.
  • A move to boost computer sciences in Education Department programs.
  • Prioritizing women-owned businesses for some $500 million in SBA loans.
Killing job-stifling regulations

  • Signed an Executive Order demanding that two regulations be killed for every new one creates. He beat that big and cut 16 rules and regulations for every one created, saving $8.1 billion.
  • Signed 15 congressional regulatory cuts.
  • Withdrew from the Obama-era Paris Climate Agreement, ending the threat of environmental regulations.
  • Signed an Executive Order cutting the time for infrastructure permit approvals.
  • Eliminated an Obama rule on streams that Trump felt unfairly targeted the coal industry.
Fair trade

  • Made good on his campaign promise to withdraw from the Trans-Pacific Partnership.
  • Opened up the North American Free Trade Agreement for talks to better the deal for the U.S.
  • Worked to bring companies back to the U.S., and companies like Toyota, Mazda, Broadcom Limited, and Foxconn announced plans to open U.S. plants.
  • Worked to promote the sale of U.S products abroad.
  • Made enforcement of U.S. trade laws, especially those that involve national security, a priority.
  • Ended Obama’s deal with Cuba.
Boosting U.S. energy dominance

  • The Department of Interior, which has led the way in cutting regulations, opened plans to lease 77 million acres in the Gulf of Mexico for oil and gas drilling.
  • Trump traveled the world to promote the sale and use of U.S. energy.
  • Expanded energy infrastructure projects like the Keystone XL Pipeline snubbed by Obama.
  • Ordered the Environmental Protection Agency to kill Obama’s Clean Power Plan.
  • EPA is reconsidering Obama rules on methane emissions.
Protecting the U.S. homeland

  • Laid out new principles for reforming immigration and announced plan to end "chain migration," which lets one legal immigrant to bring in dozens of family members.
  • Made progress to build the border wall with Mexico.
  • Ended the Obama-era “catch and release” of illegal immigrants.
  • Boosted the arrests of illegals inside the U.S.
  • Doubled the number of counties participating with Immigration and Customs Enforcement charged with deporting illegals.
  • Removed 36 percent more criminal gang members than in fiscal 2016.
  • Started the end of the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrival program.
  • Ditto for other amnesty programs like Deferred Action for Parents of Americans.
  • Cracking down on some 300 sanctuary cities that defy ICE but still get federal dollars.
  • Added some 100 new immigration judges.
Protecting communities

  • Justice announced grants of $98 million to fund 802 new cops.
  • Justice worked with Central American nations to arrest and charge 4,000 MS-13 members.
  • Homeland rounded up nearly 800 MS-13 members, an 83 percent one-year increase.
  • Signed three executive orders aimed at cracking down on international criminal organizations.
  • Attorney General Jeff Sessions created new National Public Safety Partnership, a cooperative initiative with cities to reduce violent crimes.
Accountability

  • Trump has nominated 73 federal judges and won his nomination of Neil Gorsuch to the Supreme Court.
  • Ordered ethical standards including a lobbying ban.
  • Called for a comprehensive plan to reorganize the executive branch.
  • Ordered an overhaul to modernize the digital government.
  • Called for a full audit of the Pentagon and its spending.
Combatting opioids

  • First, the president declared a Nationwide Public Health Emergency on opioids.
  • His Council of Economic Advisors played a role in determining that overdoses are underreported by as much as 24 percent.
  • The Department of Health and Human Services laid out a new five-point strategy to fight the crisis.
  • Justice announced it was scheduling fentanyl substances as a drug class under the Controlled Substances Act.
  • Justice started a fraud crackdown, arresting more than 400.
  • The administration added $500 million to fight the crisis.
  • On National Drug Take Back Day, the Drug Enforcement Agency collected 456 tons.

Protecting life

  • In his first week, Trump reinstated and expanded the Mexico City Policy that blocks some $9 billion in foreign aid being used for abortions.
  • Worked with Congress on a bill overturning an Obama regulation that blocked states from defunding abortion providers.
  • Published guidance to block Obamacare money from supporting abortion.
Helping veterans

  • Signed the Veterans Accountability and Whistleblower Protection Act to allow senior officials in the Department of Veterans Affairs to fire failing employees and establish safeguards to protect whistleblowers.
  • Signed the Veterans Appeals Improvement and Modernization Act.
  • Signed the Harry W. Colmery Veterans Educational Assistance Act, to provide support.
  • Signed the VA Choice and Quality Employment Act of 2017 to authorize $2.1 billion in additional funds for the Veterans Choice Program.
  • Created a VA hotline.
  • Had the VA launch an online “Access and Quality Tool,” providing veterans with a way to access wait time and quality of care data.
  • With VA Secretary Dr. David Shulkin, announced three initiatives to expand access to healthcare for veterans using telehealth technology.
Promoting peace through strength

  • Directed the rebuilding of the military and ordered a new national strategy and nuclear posture review.
  • Worked to increase defense spending.
  • Empowered military leaders to “seize the initiative and win,” reducing the need for a White House sign off on every mission.
  • Directed the revival of the National Space Council to develop space war strategies.
  • Elevated U.S. Cyber Command into a major warfighting command.
  • Withdrew from the U.N. Global Compact on Migration, which Trump saw as a threat to borders.
  • Imposed a travel ban on nations that lack border and anti-terrorism security.
  • Saw ISIS lose virtually all of its territory.
  • Pushed for strong action against global outlaw North Korea and its development of nuclear weapons.
  • Announced a new Afghanistan strategy that strengthens support for U.S. forces at war with terrorism.
  • NATO increased support for the war in Afghanistan.
  • Approved a new Iran strategy plan focused on neutralizing the country’s influence in the region.
  • Ordered missile strikes against a Syrian airbase used in a chemical weapons attack.
  • Prevented subsequent chemical attacks by announcing a plan to detect them better and warned of future strikes if they were used.
  • Ordered new sanctions on the dictatorship in Venezuela.
Restoring confidence in and respect for America

  • Trump won the release of Americans held abroad, often using his personal relationships with world leaders.
  • Made good on a campaign promise to recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel.
  • Conducted a historic 12-day trip through Asia, winning new cooperative deals. On the trip, he attended three regional summits to promote American interests.
  • He traveled to the Middle East and Europe to build new relationships with leaders.
  • Traveled to Poland and on to Germany for the G-20 meeting where he pushed again for funding of women entrepreneurs.


But sure - in light of what some goober said on an internet forum, the heartland voters are going to REALLY feel betrayed now! /s
 
Dame 25 down 4 up considered broadband. Lol that speed would feel like dail up internet here in canada. Our cheapest plan here is 120 down and 10 up. Mid range is 300 down 50 up and Top of the line which I have is 1000 down and 100 up.
 
I have 18/1 right now and I can tell you in no way do I feel like I have decent broadband service. 10/1 is an even bigger joke. I have to wonder if they expect you to buy more than one access point per house just for more than one person to be able to stream video. Heck, one person at 18/1 streaming and everything still buffers like crazy, even at only 1080p.

And if mobile broadband can be considered 'broadband access', what happens when you reach the cap in the first 5 days? What access do you have the other 25 days in the month?

I personally find it hilarious that 23 years ago we as a culture began to accept the internet as a way of life and have invested our money, time, and energy since then giving our money to these companies only to see them consistently turning hostile toward us. It's honestly getting to a point where you just want to throw in the towel and tell them all we're done propping you up with our money and to hell with the internet.
 
Tried to use my friend's smartphone cellular (T-mobile 4G LTE) wi-fi hotspot once to stream a movie for us while on vacation. Terrible experience. Universally calling it broadband is a bit silly.
 
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