FBI Quietly Changes Privacy Rules For Accessing NSA Data On Americans

Megalith

Megalith

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Remember that thing called the Fourth Amendment? The FBI doesn’t. You may read more about this here and here.

…the FBI is allowed direct access to the NSA’s massive collections of international emails, texts and phone calls – which often include Americans on one end of the conversation. The activists also expressed concern that the FBI’s “minimization” rules, for removing or limiting sensitive data that could identify Americans, did not reflect the bureau’s easy access to the NSA’s collected international communications. FBI officials can search through the data, using Americans’ identifying information, for what PCLOB called “routine” queries unrelated to national security.
 
I love the way the media pushes the lie that the "FBI" or the "NSA" or the "Pentagon" actually has an opinion about something that's distinct and separate from the President.

All of these agencies are under the complete control of the White House, and there's no way they would ever be permitted to express an "opinion" that's different from what the Executive, in this case, Obama, wants.
 
CreatedTheMultiverse said:
"The NSA doesn't spy on American Citizens" - icpiper
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Since lcpiper isn't here to defend himself, let me give it a shot:
This is like saying your phone company spies on you. The NSA doesn't spy on Americans, they just assembled the database. It's clearly the FBI that's spying on Americans. But don't worry, the entire government is staffed by good people. Great people really. The BEST people, they would never do anything untoward with every detail of your private personal communications. I mean, if you can't trust the government, who can you trust? I worked with these people for decades and they're all angels of pure goodness and light.

Except when they're torturing terrorists and targeting American families abroad for extra-judicial execution, to keep us all safe of course.

Edit: Speak of the angel, I start typing and lcpiper appears.
Yes, I'm currently setting up a thermite barrel to burn all my PCs in, clearly I have real-time monitoring malware installed.
 
Kueller said:
. But don't worry, the entire government is staffed by good people. Great people really. The BEST people, they would never do anything untoward with every detail of your private personal communications. I mean, if you can't trust the government, who can you trust? I worked with these people for decades and they're all angels of pure goodness and light.
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You must believe that, or are suffering from cognitive dissonance. I mean, you are in favor of a really powerful Big Government wielding the sledgehammer of regulation against all those overpaid CEO's, evil corporations, etc, are you not? Single payer healthcare, socialized everything....stop me when I've got you wrong.

More government, more power, more better, right? I mean, they might be killing and torturing but they would never use the power to regulate, or the "benevolence" of government benefits as a tool of suppression, right?
 
No, I started typing about 4 hours ago, we had the fire alarms go off and I had to dump it and leave, hence my late response.

Don't fret, I'll stop spoiling all your government hate fun.
I apologize and wish I had never tried to show you how the media has lied and manipulated you, or that mach of what you have been told is false.

I'll leave you all alone in your fantasy world. I have my own troubles now and soon they will get around to my activity on this forum. Of course unlike you guys I have a real reason to worry. They are even inside my financial and medical records these days. Don't worry about it though. They'll never expand the programs for watching their own employees and contractors to include all of you. You don't know anything worth telling anyone.

So I'll leave you to yourselves and you all just forget I ever told you anything at all about how things are, what is worth worrying about and what isn't.
 
GlowingGhoul said:
You must believe that, or are suffering from cognitive dissonance. I mean, you are in favor of a really powerful Big Government wielding the sledgehammer of regulation against all those overpaid CEO's, evil corporations, etc, are you not? Single payer healthcare, socialized everything....stop me when I've got you wrong.

More government, more power, more better, right?
Click to expand...

He was being facetious.
 
lcpiper said:
He was being facetious.
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My point was on one hand he's (sarcastically) referring to government abuse of power in one area, while simultaneously desiring a big, powerful government, because you know, there are certain powers they would never abuse.
 
lcpiper said:
Don't fret, I'll stop spoiling all your government hate fun.
I apologize and wish I had never tried to show you how the media has lied and manipulated you, or that mach of what you have been told is false.

I'll leave you all alone in your fantasy world. I have my own troubles now and soon they will get around to my activity on this forum. Of course unlike you guys I have a real reason to worry. They are even inside my financial and medical records these days. Don't worry about it though. They'll never expand the programs for watching their own employees and contractors to include all of you. You don't know anything worth telling anyone.

So I'll leave you to yourselves and you all just forget I ever told you anything at all about how things are, what is worth worrying about and what isn't.
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This is what I like about this forum. Even when I disagree with someone and think they may be a government plant, I at least learn about other perspectives and see how I may be wrong.
 
What I love about it these people is that they only care for certain amendments and not all. I am pretty sure they are not helping me and my fight for the second amendment. Maybe if the protected all rights instead of picking and choosing what they call to protect we might be in better spot.
 
amdmadman said:
What I love about it these people is that they only care for certain amendments and not all. I am pretty sure they are not helping me and my fight for the second amendment. Maybe if the protected all rights instead of picking and choosing what they call to protect we might be in better spot.
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Well, if fighting Federally directed background checks on the sale of personal property between residents of the same state is helping you then I am already there. Was that anywhere near the mark?
 
GlowingGhoul said:
My point was on one hand he's (sarcastically) referring to government abuse of power in one area, while simultaneously desiring a big, powerful government, because you know, there are certain powers they would never abuse.
Click to expand...

I think this response to a Poe's Law just broke my brain.

Are you responding to what you think Kueller's position is? Kueller's impersonation of lcpiper's position? The sarcasm contained with Kueller's position? Or the sarcasm that Kueller is projecting onto lcpiper's position?
 
I would be amazed if you even remotely got close to what my "position" is.
 
I think reality is somewhere in the middle of where lcpiper stands and conspiracy theorists stand.

It's not horribly bad, but it's not that good either.... I think they are overstepping their boundaries (lawfully for most of it), but they aren't the Illuminati or HYDRA or anything.

A rectal exam isn't that horrible and it can do some good if it finds anything. Still, isn't fun and is pretty invasive.
 
Ur_Mom said:
I think reality is somewhere in the middle of where lcpiper stands and conspiracy theorists stand.

It's not horribly bad, but it's not that good either.... I think they are overstepping their boundaries (lawfully for most of it), but they aren't the Illuminati or HYDRA or anything.

A rectal exam isn't that horrible and it can do some good if it finds anything. Still, isn't fun and is pretty invasive.
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You win today's best use of an analogy award.

Hrmmm, cant spell analogy without anal.....
 
Ur_Mom, what I have come to realize is that for many here, reality is not of concern.

I can explain reality but they don't want to hear it explained. Even more, they really don't want their bubble busted either. They want to see themselves as being abused and mistreated. Now this isn't everyone but many of the vocal ones yes.

I can tell them that if they were making overseas calls via landline that their entire call was recorded, still is being recorded, they ignore that.
I can tell them that if they are talking to someone overseas and that person is being collected on, that as a simple effect, they themselves will have been captured as well. It's sort of obvious if you know what I mean. It's not that they are "spying on you", they are spying on the other guy and you just happened to put yourself into the picture.
Does this mean sometimes Americans get caught up, certainly, it's been that way since the beginning of the Intelligence Community's existence. You can't do one without sometimes doing the other. But it doesn't mean someone is sitting on your name watching everything you do..

Of course now, starting almost a year ago, Americans are now actually being collected on and all their personal lives opened up to routine surveillance. And it isn't a secret. And to the best of my knowledge, no one cares. I know I have mentioned it many time here at the [H] and I have yet to here one dissenting voice.

And so, after this much time I can only surmise that no one actually cares and I am wasting my time. They just do not actually care about what the NSA or the FBI is or isn't doing. They only want something to complain about and they damn well don't want anyone getting in the way of their fun.
 
nsa_1point6.gif
 
lcpiper said:
[...] And so, after this much time I can only surmise that no one actually cares and I am wasting my time. They just do not actually care about what the NSA or the FBI is or isn't doing. They only want something to complain about and they damn well don't want anyone getting in the way of their fun.
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Many of us care but are simultaneously burned out on caring. The country and the world are too far gone. Unless things really hit the fan I guess I'm down to just try to have a decent life on this slowly sinking ship.
 
Epic| said:
Many of us care but are simultaneously burned out on caring. The country and the world are too far gone. Unless things really hit the fan I guess I'm down to just try to have a decent life on this slowly sinking ship.
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I see your statement in the same light I see statements like "We have no freedom in the US anymore". So apathetic and ridiculously wrong as to be laughable.

The very argument that we have no freedom completely destroyed by the fact that someone is freely allowed to make that comment in the open without repercussion. The same is true with the concept that the country is too far gone. It's ridiculous to think this. Does shit happen, of course it does, there are people involved. Is managing our form of government a never ending tug of war, of course it is, it was designed that way for a purpose. Too many think that our form of government is supposed to be this simple and unchanging set of rules and that any event that pushes those rules around is a sign that it's all broken. That's not what our government is supposed to be. It's supposed to be a living thing able to adapt and survive while staying true to our beliefs. We see it happening all the time, we see people involved with it all the time. We also see people who are never involved and people who think that involvement doesn't change anything.

The biggest problem people have is they think they need to be involved at the national level. They are on the wrong end of the stick. If you want to see change and effect your lives, get involved at the local level. Then see that what you build at the local level can effect the next higher level. By the time you reach state you should be seeing reality pretty clearly.
 
lcpiper said:
You know this is just a cute joke at most.
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CreatedTheMultiverse said:
The truest jokes are the funniest ones.
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In other words, 1.6% is 100% of email traffic and some social media, arguably where privacy is even more important than elsewhere. I guess it could also be read as 1.6% of all internet traffic, which means they dabble in a little of everything.

So when they say they monitor 1.6% of internet traffic, its a giant slap in the face to everyone else. Even if the actual number is far higher than 1.6%, IMHO that graphic makes this SNAFU even more apparent. No matter how you interpret it, that statistic is equally offensive to anyone that cares about privacy as it should be 0%.
 
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You think the NSA shouldn't monitor ANY traffic? No interest in seeing what China or Russia are up to, or any monitoring of potential terrorism at all?
 
TwistedAegis said:
You think the NSA shouldn't monitor ANY traffic? No interest in seeing what China or Russia are up to, or any monitoring of potential terrorism at all?
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That was poorly worded. I probably should have prefaced it with the word "domestic".
 
TwistedAegis said:
You think the NSA shouldn't monitor ANY traffic? No interest in seeing what China or Russia are up to, or any monitoring of potential terrorism at all?
Click to expand...

Was the government ever allowed to monitor any traffic of the USPS/FedEx/UPS?

Post Office has existed for over 200 years. You don't find it odd that they were never able to legalize searching peoples mail anonymously....or ever wanted to?
 
westrock2000 said:
Was the government ever allowed to monitor any traffic of the USPS/FedEx/UPS?

Post Office has existed for over 200 years. You don't find it odd that they were never able to legalize searching peoples mail anonymously....or ever wanted to?
Click to expand...

I don't disagree that they shouldn't monitor domestic traffic; the claim is that they don't, but I think there is enough grey area/uncertainty with the volume of data that a decent amount probably gets swooped up.

But the interception of electronic messages has occurred since the telegraph was invented; Lincoln got intercepted messages during the Civil War, but things really ramped up around WWI and then WWII really set it all in motion.
 
CaptNumbNutz said:
In other words, 1.6% is 100% of email traffic and some social media, arguably where privacy is even more important than elsewhere. I guess it could also be read as 1.6% of all internet traffic, which means they dabble in a little of everything.

So when they say they monitor 1.6% of internet traffic, its a giant slap in the face to everyone else. Even if the actual number is far higher than 1.6%, IMHO that graphic makes this SNAFU even more apparent. No matter how you interpret it, that statistic is equally offensive to anyone that cares about privacy as it should be 0%.
Click to expand...

Umm, are those figures world wide figures or is that a snapshot of internet traffic in the US?

And do you see where I am going with that?

You'd think after two years of this stuff you guys would start asking these questions yourself.
 
westrock2000 said:
Was the government ever allowed to monitor any traffic of the USPS/FedEx/UPS?

Post Office has existed for over 200 years. You don't find it odd that they were never able to legalize searching peoples mail anonymously....or ever wanted to?
Click to expand...

No, they just recorded every overseas phone call ever made for the last half a decade.
 
Good thing we have heroes like the venerable Edward Snowden that so valiantly and selflessly put a stop to these government shenanigans!




/SARCASM
 
westrock2000 said:
nsa_1point6.gif
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Does Online gaming really take up that much space? I mean, I guess... since there are bounds to be lots of games running all the time, but it never really made me think it took up much at all.... then again, I never really tried to find out either.
 
lcpiper said:
I see your statement in the same light I see statements like "We have no freedom in the US anymore". So apathetic and ridiculously wrong as to be laughable.

The very argument that we have no freedom completely destroyed by the fact that someone is freely allowed to make that comment in the open without repercussion. The same is true with the concept that the country is too far gone. It's ridiculous to think this. Does shit happen, of course it does, there are people involved. Is managing our form of government a never ending tug of war, of course it is, it was designed that way for a purpose. Too many think that our form of government is supposed to be this simple and unchanging set of rules and that any event that pushes those rules around is a sign that it's all broken. That's not what our government is supposed to be. It's supposed to be a living thing able to adapt and survive while staying true to our beliefs. We see it happening all the time, we see people involved with it all the time. We also see people who are never involved and people who think that involvement doesn't change anything.

The biggest problem people have is they think they need to be involved at the national level. They are on the wrong end of the stick. If you want to see change and effect your lives, get involved at the local level. Then see that what you build at the local level can effect the next higher level. By the time you reach state you should be seeing reality pretty clearly.
Click to expand...

I see your response as 'I totally missed what that person said but here's some horse shit anyways.' Where did I say we have no freedom? I didn't. If you can't get this bit right the rest of your post isn't worth a fuck to me.
 
pothb said:
Does Online gaming really take up that much space? I mean, I guess... since there are bounds to be lots of games running all the time, but it never really made me think it took up much at all.... then again, I never really tried to find out either.
Click to expand...

It's not "exactly" right on the proportions, it's was more of a commentary on the situation.
 
I sort of figured that, but I have wondered how much online gaming takes, and since it was there, I thought I'd asked.
 
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