People just falling into the typical trap of thinking their experiences matter. They almost never do in larger sense and humans have massive cognitive biases baked right into our brains. I`ve met people claiming this and this brand is completely bad because they had a bad motherboard that short circuited couple add-on cards. Or brand of graphics card is bad because they had this and that bug in their drivers 2005... It´s like a ******* religion, literally.
![[H]ard|Forum](/styles/hardforum/xenforo/logo_dark.png){kind=logo}
Fanboys,
- Thread starter Beerandcoffee
- Start date
That's chicken and egg though. Why would they have bought "X" if they themselves believed "Y" to be the better value? Clearly they bought "X" because they do strongly believe its better, and are thus just explaining why they think that's the case.
Now real fanboidom IMO is that people get locked into brands, and then they are simply buying the next new version from that brand or they anchored themselves to a monitor with proprietary tech for one brand or the other, and so start off with bias. These are easy to weed out, as their previous cards will always be red or green going back a while, and never a mix of the two brands simultaneously when they have multiple computers.
Dan
Supreme [H]ardness
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No!
Yeah, that is pretty retarded. I prefer NV at the current time, but I'd love to see AMD pick back up with something relevant and competitive on both the GPU and CPU side. I'm someone that has multiple PCs in the house at any given time, so there's plenty of room for a variety of hardware. I've always had curiosity for what else is out there. I used to buy Power VR cards, Matrox cards, Voodoo cards, bought the Rivas and TNTs, 9700s, X800s, Geforce XXXXXXes, etc. Why not? It's fun. I'd really hate to see AMD fall off the world. I've only got a tiny bit of their hardware in the house right now, but wouldn't mind seeing more of it again at some point, even if my main gaming system is still Intelvidia for the foreseeable future.
I guess we are about the same age. I had all of them cards too over the years. I had an internet/gaming cafe back in 98 to 2000 with 14 pcs on a network. Matrox, PowerVR, ATI, 3DFX, Nvidia are all cards I had in them Pcs during that time period. Ahh I do miss them days of incredible change/improvment. Nowadays, you buy a new card and visually nothing really changes much.
D
Deleted member 83233
Guest
Probably so.
I've got a post in "one of these" threads: http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1838272&page=6
It was a lot more exciting back then. Things have definitely improved, but they've improved most of the excitement out of everything too.
meantime while using a botched NVIDIA "4GB-ala-like" card the GTX 970 (Can't get over 3.5GB VRAM issue personally, paid over retail for a GTX 970 G1 edition damn!) I am FANBOYING for the RED TEAM and it takes for them forever to release this R9 390X after being punched in the stomach and kicked in the balls by the consecutive Titan X and 980ti release!
Damn! Why AMD why???
Damn! Why AMD why???
Hornet
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What I found interesting is that raging fanboyism seem to be more prevalent in graphic card segment. The kind of arguments and wild conspiracy theories we see here is not something we'll see elsewhere, (ie. Seagate vs Western Digital )
)Beerandcoffee
n00b
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What I found interesting is that raging fanboyism seem to be more prevalent in graphic card segment. The kind of arguments and wild conspiracy theories we see here is not something we'll see elsewhere, (ie. Seagate vs Western Digital
Indeed, its funny sometimes however both camps have their pro's and con's. Lets hope amd will show us something mindblowing, even its just the price. I still cant handle the fact the 980 TI costs 750 euro, yes i have it but spending the same amount of money as a PS4 and XBONE together on something that needs to get replaced as soon we get VR or 120 hz 4K monitors just dousnt feel right.
limitedaccess
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There is several factors to consider.
Demographics -
HardOCP is a gaming focused computer technology website, the video card sub-group is by far the largest discussion area. If you go to less gaming oriented technology websites to one with a larger mobile focus you will for instance in CPU discussions see a larger prevalence of Intel (x86) and ARM (along with licensee) camps emerging. Even with GPUs the discussion also shifts away somewhat from AMD vs Nvidia discrete GPUs to include mobile. The debate in many other demographics is between the consoles, or mobile solutions. See how Apple/Samsung groups behave or Xbox/PS groups behave in areas with those demographics.
Accessibility -
Graphics information comparatively is rather accessible, amount of access and ease of understanding, as plenty of sources write and discuss it. Basically its easy for the masses to be "knowledgeable" on the subject and therefore they can give an opinion. You can't really polarizing Seagate vs Western Digital (a previous example brought up) becuase there is nothing people can really discuss. Mainstream sports is actually the best example as this as there is so much coverage anyone can be an opinionated expert.
Clarity -
There is basically rather clear camps, this last point is pretty self-explanatory. In this case especially as it's divided into two sides. Take gaming there is a Valve/Steam camp but because the other side is not as clearly defined (or even really exists) you will not have the back and forth.
Are you also willing to publicly acknowledge the other side?
Demographics -
HardOCP is a gaming focused computer technology website, the video card sub-group is by far the largest discussion area. If you go to less gaming oriented technology websites to one with a larger mobile focus you will for instance in CPU discussions see a larger prevalence of Intel (x86) and ARM (along with licensee) camps emerging. Even with GPUs the discussion also shifts away somewhat from AMD vs Nvidia discrete GPUs to include mobile. The debate in many other demographics is between the consoles, or mobile solutions. See how Apple/Samsung groups behave or Xbox/PS groups behave in areas with those demographics.
Accessibility -
Graphics information comparatively is rather accessible, amount of access and ease of understanding, as plenty of sources write and discuss it. Basically its easy for the masses to be "knowledgeable" on the subject and therefore they can give an opinion. You can't really polarizing Seagate vs Western Digital (a previous example brought up) becuase there is nothing people can really discuss. Mainstream sports is actually the best example as this as there is so much coverage anyone can be an opinionated expert.
Clarity -
There is basically rather clear camps, this last point is pretty self-explanatory. In this case especially as it's divided into two sides. Take gaming there is a Valve/Steam camp but because the other side is not as clearly defined (or even really exists) you will not have the back and forth.
Are you also willing to publicly acknowledge the other side?
Nenu
[H]ardened
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What I found interesting is that raging fanboyism seem to be more prevalent in graphic card segment. The kind of arguments and wild conspiracy theories we see here is not something we'll see elsewhere, (ie. Seagate vs Western Digital
The gfx card performance segment gets updated more often and the cards affect gaming performance the most.
The reason most here upgrade is to get better gaming performance.
Reality
[H]ard|Gawd
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people always fish for a team to root for, it's stitched into our personalities as kids be it with sports, tv shows, or politics
natural
durquavian
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The problem is the definition. Seems most akin Fanboy to picking a side, which inherently isn't a bad thing. Problem is it gets associated with a negative. There is nothing wrong with picking a side. It is a lot like honor and trust. The moment someone be it a person or entity betrays that trust they lose it. I wont buy Intel ever because of their many business practices. I have liked AMD since they began making CPUs. Originally I didn't hate Intel but preferred AMD and liked their David and Goliath story line. But after Intels greatly immoral and illegal activities I had a great disdain for the company and because I do not wish to associate with such I will never buy their products knowingly.
I do not condemn another for their decisions, it is their choice, solely. But there is nothing wrong with supporting a side as long as the decision is sound and aligned with ones beliefs.
To me a fanboy is someone that will do or say anything to belittle the opposing side. This is what you see a lot here and in many forums. A lot within AMD threads. Look at any of my posts and you will see that I try to be fair and reasonable with the facts. I never make claims that are obviously contradictory to facts, most of the time I just speak to my experience and what it is I have found.
(out of time to write more but maybe you see what I am getting at).
I do not condemn another for their decisions, it is their choice, solely. But there is nothing wrong with supporting a side as long as the decision is sound and aligned with ones beliefs.
To me a fanboy is someone that will do or say anything to belittle the opposing side. This is what you see a lot here and in many forums. A lot within AMD threads. Look at any of my posts and you will see that I try to be fair and reasonable with the facts. I never make claims that are obviously contradictory to facts, most of the time I just speak to my experience and what it is I have found.
(out of time to write more but maybe you see what I am getting at).
Absolutely, however i find the green camp and those referenced above like to go into the AMD discussions, wich have nothing to do with them, then thread crap and spread FUD. (this one isnt in the amd section, so i suppose its fair game)
I believe one of them isnt allowed in the AMD subsection anymore, although i havent seen any of the 3 in there recently, so maybe all of them cant.
There is a great deal of hypocrisy from that side.
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Ruoh
Supreme [H]ardness
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It's just that some of us prefer BMWs over Kias.
What I found interesting is that raging fanboyism seem to be more prevalent in graphic card segment. The kind of arguments and wild conspiracy theories we see here is not something we'll see elsewhere, (ie. Seagate vs Western Digital
I have a hard time imagining anyone pulling for Seagate in that space
Did you see the reported average failure rates from backblazes 2014 report?
http://www.extremetech.com/computin...clear-winners-and-losers-but-is-the-data-good
gawkgawk
Limp Gawd
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hahhah. im nvidia and intel (mercedes benz).
durquavian
Gawd
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Ok got more time so I will have another go at it.
So maybe I will say it like this:
Fanboy is a negative term and most fitting I guess when used on someone that goes above and beyond to further their opinion at the cost of any other. Examples are as follows:
1: posting benches selectively when others are in direct contradiction ( easy to do )
2: Readily taking any comment/post/news out of context to make it look as if it meant something else (huge use in forums)
3: plainly stating obvious falsities like The 8350/i3 is the best , when reason would dictate otherwise (random and a bit more rare but cringe worthy none-the-less )
4: And less than obvious: acting as if personal experience ranks lower than reviews or benches ( harder to see but still makes for some aggravating banter)
OK so the first 3 I am sure we have seen in some form and in differing levels of occurrence depending where you frequent. The 4th is one that is a bit more difficult and where most leave the level of rational and tread ever closer to FANBOYISM.
Example being in any AMD FX thread. At any point when a user states that an AMD FX 8 core is sufficient and even close to being considered ample to be considered a great gaming CPU you get the rampant Intel user that loves to claim it sucks. Ok so stop here and consider what was stated between the AMD user and the Intel. The AMD user made no assertions to Intel or made any claim to its position amongst them. They only spoke of their experience with HOW THEY ACTUALLY perform. The Intel user which likely has no experience with the FX uses nothing more than benches which say little of the AMD users experience. So you see here where the fanboyism is right? Hell I hope so but likely even some of you reading this think it is the AMD user when it is in fact the Intel user.
A couple of things here. First experience from a user is huge. It isn't always perfect but when they aren't comparing to opposing units then likely their statements are in fact solid to actual findings. For instance saying their AMD FX8350 is getting solid 60 FPS @1440p playing a majority of their games with the occasional poor coded gaming getting some minimums just a bit lower than 60 ie: SC2 and other single core games, then likely that is fact and is rather believable.
Second: Benches versus experience. I have NEVER gotten the same results as ANY benchmark, I have always gotten higher. So I have never understood why anyone would hold bench results as gospel. Seriously! Have any of you gotten the exact same results in FPS as a review? Even in SKyrim I never had the issues the reviews had. Hence why I only look at reviews for some mild comparisons and to glean what improvement there may have been because I don't own that particular hardware, but that's it.
But here is the dilemma: When someone goes so far as to speak to their experience and it contradicts a single review or bench, that person then gets labeled a FANBOY. Problem here is the only reason they get the label is because the opposing opinions wish to invalidate their findings. I have seen so many benches and graphs that honestly leave a lot of questions to what so many believe to be the final word. But because it doesn't fit in that cookie cutter world belief, then it cant be true and anyone not in that mindset is labeled a fanboy.
Now most of what I typed is from the perspective of an AMD user. Look at any of my posts about AMD and their place in performance and you will see I put them squarely where they belong. I don't feel the need to make them seem better or try to change the facts or sugar coat it. But I also don't have that same doom and gloom mentality, so I put it right where it belongs.
So maybe I will say it like this:
Fanboy is a negative term and most fitting I guess when used on someone that goes above and beyond to further their opinion at the cost of any other. Examples are as follows:
1: posting benches selectively when others are in direct contradiction ( easy to do )
2: Readily taking any comment/post/news out of context to make it look as if it meant something else (huge use in forums)
3: plainly stating obvious falsities like The 8350/i3 is the best , when reason would dictate otherwise (random and a bit more rare but cringe worthy none-the-less )
4: And less than obvious: acting as if personal experience ranks lower than reviews or benches ( harder to see but still makes for some aggravating banter)
OK so the first 3 I am sure we have seen in some form and in differing levels of occurrence depending where you frequent. The 4th is one that is a bit more difficult and where most leave the level of rational and tread ever closer to FANBOYISM.
Example being in any AMD FX thread. At any point when a user states that an AMD FX 8 core is sufficient and even close to being considered ample to be considered a great gaming CPU you get the rampant Intel user that loves to claim it sucks. Ok so stop here and consider what was stated between the AMD user and the Intel. The AMD user made no assertions to Intel or made any claim to its position amongst them. They only spoke of their experience with HOW THEY ACTUALLY perform. The Intel user which likely has no experience with the FX uses nothing more than benches which say little of the AMD users experience. So you see here where the fanboyism is right? Hell I hope so but likely even some of you reading this think it is the AMD user when it is in fact the Intel user.
A couple of things here. First experience from a user is huge. It isn't always perfect but when they aren't comparing to opposing units then likely their statements are in fact solid to actual findings. For instance saying their AMD FX8350 is getting solid 60 FPS @1440p playing a majority of their games with the occasional poor coded gaming getting some minimums just a bit lower than 60 ie: SC2 and other single core games, then likely that is fact and is rather believable.
Second: Benches versus experience. I have NEVER gotten the same results as ANY benchmark, I have always gotten higher. So I have never understood why anyone would hold bench results as gospel. Seriously! Have any of you gotten the exact same results in FPS as a review? Even in SKyrim I never had the issues the reviews had. Hence why I only look at reviews for some mild comparisons and to glean what improvement there may have been because I don't own that particular hardware, but that's it.
But here is the dilemma: When someone goes so far as to speak to their experience and it contradicts a single review or bench, that person then gets labeled a FANBOY. Problem here is the only reason they get the label is because the opposing opinions wish to invalidate their findings. I have seen so many benches and graphs that honestly leave a lot of questions to what so many believe to be the final word. But because it doesn't fit in that cookie cutter world belief, then it cant be true and anyone not in that mindset is labeled a fanboy.
Now most of what I typed is from the perspective of an AMD user. Look at any of my posts about AMD and their place in performance and you will see I put them squarely where they belong. I don't feel the need to make them seem better or try to change the facts or sugar coat it. But I also don't have that same doom and gloom mentality, so I put it right where it belongs.
dude, you just typed in another thread 'amd drivers are fine, hell better than nvidia a great deal of the time.' i would have agreed with you right up until the comma. who are you kidding?
durquavian
Gawd
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I am stating FACT. Read any thread on Nvidias latest 2 drivers and see the host of BSOD occurring with them. Hey it happens. I am not saying Nvidia sucks or anything, just pointing out the facts as they stand. AMD drivers have been, over the past year, fairly solid (no BSOD or equipment breaking). Nvidia over the past year has had issues. The fact doesn't make my statement fanboy in nature. You don't see me telling others to go buy AMD because their drivers are actually better. Trust me there is a lot I could use for that argument but I believe each person can make their own choice.
you didn't type anything about 'the latest two nvidia drivers.' see, the cornerstone of being a fanboy is taking something that can happen and has happened with both companies and embellishing that failure as a trait of said company. kind of like what you're doing here, while at the same time suggesting you come from some kind of objective perspective. you are all sorts of double speaking all in this one comment. but whatever makes you feel comfortable.
BababooeyHTJ
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I had a bsod and the display driver crash on the last driver.
The only card thats given me an issue so bad that I've had to sell it was my GTX680 and the vsync issues that I dealt with for almost six months.
Ended up going with AMD. I do tend to miss a few things with AMD cards. Mostly SGSSAA and trssaa. AMD's SSAA works well when it does. I just wish that it worked more often. Their trssaa implementation never seems to work and when it does it comes with a massive performance hit. Then there are quirks with smaller titles.
I've owned AMD cards for a while over the past few years and never really had any major issues. The quirks just seem to be more common.
durquavian
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Where did I say it was a trait? By the way you are performing #2 of Fanboy list:
2: Readily taking any comment/post/news out of context to make it look as if it meant something else (huge use in forums)
When I spoke of the drivers between both I did it with Criteria= Last years worth of drivers, Gave context of driver quality = BSOD last 2 drivers, and I even stated in my last post = Hey it happens. I am not saying Nvidia sucks or anything, just pointing out the facts as they stand. And lets not forget this part too = You don't see me telling others to go buy AMD because their drivers are actually better.
And the original comment about drivers was in another thread that you brought here. Sorry but the burden of proof has shown your comments fall greatly on the side of Fanboy here. Contest if you wish, I am all happier for it, but if you wish to discuss driver superiority, then do it in the thread I posted it not here where we were discussing a different topic. Though you have done more to prove my point. THX.
ManofGod
[H]F Junkie
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The first part of your post indicates fanboyism, be careful.
I know I am a fan of some things but, so what, if I enjoy what I have and it works great, what is it to you.
ManofGod
[H]F Junkie
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Crap on a company all you want but, it usually means crapping on those who purchased said products. It does become completely illogical and totally emotional.
So you can feint objectivity here but it doesn't apply to your context less post in another thread. Yes I'm hearing your agenda loud and clear. Getting off here thanks.
ChronoDetector
2[H]4U
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Not a fanboy, I own both NVIDIA, AMD and Intel products and I choose what is most suitable for me. I hate reading immature, ignorant and childish comments from fanboys who think they are better than everybody else. Though a bit off topic here, I find soap opera fanboy/fangirls are the worst, their comments are the worst and most disturbing when it comes to defending their favourite fictional character... glad I stopped reading them.
Console fanboys are possibly the worst if you compare them to so called PC elitist pricks.
Console fanboys are possibly the worst if you compare them to so called PC elitist pricks.
BroHamBone
[H]ard|Gawd
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Eh em, although the Nvidia forum has multiple 980 ti threads, Ive only noticed the 1 AMD thread... "390x coming soon few weeks"....which was started in January.
Who is ready to start a "Pascal coming soon few weeks" thread?
Jokes!
Who is ready to start a "Pascal coming soon few weeks" thread?
Jokes!
durquavian
Gawd
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I notice you keep just saying nothing, proving nothing. If you wish to disagree with me then prove where I am wrong or misinformed. But I am guessing I am not and you have nothing to add.
if i'm reading them correctly, your two concourent posts in this thread you're presenting the reasons why you are not a fanboy. correct? that's great that you would spend your time to slap yourself on the back like that.
in the other thread on post 162, your exact comment about drivers is the following:
"Ok so you gave a good point in the bolded which helped me not to have to do it myself. AMD drivers are fine, hell better than Nvidia a great deal of the time. The only big issue is CF PROFILEs for new games coming in a timely manner, rather as quickly as SLI. I am getting tired of seeing posters say DRIVERS when in fact: AMD drivers are fine, hell better than Nvidia a great deal of the time."
so where in this post did you contextualize that as you put it you were using the criteria that you were talking about drivers last year? where in this post did you say as you put it 'hey it happens. i'm not saying nvidia sucks or anything.' i don't know about anyone else but when some uses the qualifier '...a great deal of the time...' last year isn't the time frame that immediately comes to mind. i think its pretty common for most people that when they use the phrase '...a great deal of the time...' they're refereeing to a long period of time. in essence if some one were to construct a sentence:
(A) is fine, better than (B) a great deal of the time.
that person's intention would be to say that (B) has been consistently shitty for a long period of time in relation to the consistent goodness of (A).
Trying to be objective is an admirable endeavor. i struggle for objectivity all the time. when we want to express an idea with objectivity, we have to contextualize what it is we want to say by adding in words that frame a specific time, place, and thing. how can you express objectivity in the other thread when your contextualizing words are here in this thread? its great that you want the champion your own non-fanboyness in this thread about fanboys, but why not put it into practice in other devisive threads where it really counts? that is, if you had any intention of being objective in the other threads at all.
durquavian
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So you base your whole argument on your own assumptions? How about ask for clarity rather than assume. I mean really. There is nothing in my post that states over the whole of time. A year is a good general time frame for any set period. Yet you assume I mean all time and that makes me the fanboy. Sorry but the burden is upon you as yet you have given contradictory information to my assertion. I stand by what I stated. Even after with my added time frame to help you better understand you still try to disavow the facts. And that is what they are: FACTS. So do you have contrary information or are you afraid others will see that I am right?
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you cast considerable doubt on your own credibility by the way you use words. in what way can i argue against people having issues with drivers, when at any given time anyone anywhere can have an issue with drivers. lets go back to 2012 for chuckles sake. if i google people having catalyst driver issues in 2012, guess how many come up....bingo, lots of people. if i did the same thing with geforce drivers in 2012 do you know how many i found...right again, lots of people. what if i told you that i haven't noticed any significantly unusual issues with either my radeon or geforce rigs all last year save for the lack of a multi gpu profile. that's my personal experience so does that invalidate a radeon or geforce user who's been pulling out short hairs for all last year? being not a fanboy and being objective means you give credence to a person's experience even they run contrary to your own. and above all else, its means you try really hard to not make plainly one-sided comments like:
"Ok so you gave a good point in the bolded which helped me not to have to do it myself. AMD drivers are fine, hell better than Nvidia a great deal of the time. The only big issue is CF PROFILEs for new games coming in a timely manner, rather as quickly as SLI. I am getting tired of seeing posters say DRIVERS when in fact: AMD drivers are fine, hell better than Nvidia a great deal of the time."
durquavian
Gawd
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So I gather you concede AMD drivers are general better than NVIDIA most of the time in the last year, say 2014 to today? Had you asked I would have given the time frame but you assumed and even after having it you still try to push your smoke and mirrors defense. By the way yes AMD has had issues and 2012 was one of the years. Had you asked I cold have told you that. So again DO YOU HAVE CONTRARY INFO FOR LAST YEAR TO YEAR AND A HALF? If not refrain from being a fan boy.
you no read good i see. my personal experience last year has been great with no issues for my amd or nvidia cards. again, that doesn't mean that other people are having an easy time of it. so asking me to find evidence of people having zero issues is kind of nonsensical. and as you should expect, there are plenty of people who report catalyst issues last year, too. so insisting on amd driver being better than nvidia's is determined by what criteria? how many page results? how many compainers? 100? 1000? 10000? you should be smart enough to know that a simple google search will produce loads of results, right? so i think at this point you should just take your own advice and quit while you're still behind. screenie below as reference.
durquavian
Gawd
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you no read good i see. my personal experience last year has been great with no issues for my amd or nvidia cards. again, that doesn't mean that other people are having an easy time of it. so asking me to find evidence of people having zero issues is kind of nonsensical. and as you should expect, there are plenty of people who report catalyst issues last year, too. so insisting on amd driver being better than nvidia's is determined by what criteria? how many page results? how many compainers? 100? 1000? 10000? you should be smart enough to know that a simple google search will produce loads of results, right? so i think at this point you should just take your own advice and quit while you're still behind. screenie below as reference.
Google isn't proof. Proof is a user that is knowledgeable enough, well a few of them, experiencing driver breaking issues. Look at the driver update threads, I read them all, and you will see for the most part AMD has far less instances than NVIDIA. I have seen no BSOD issues with AMD over the past year whereas NVIDIAs last 2, 3rd just released, have with a large number experiencing the issue.
And by the way, most issues last year was with Intel and mantle, some iGPU access problems, not an AMD driver issue. Try again.
ManofGod
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Give it up, Renny has you chasing your tail now.
He pretty much has defined the topic of this thread and you have taken the bait. thanks for moving the goal post for me again captain back-tracker. i'm done.
durquavian
Gawd
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Never moved any goal posts. Google isn't proof because it will repost the same thread multiple times and doesn't differentiate from problem to question of possible. Have you actually tracked any threads on driver updates or is reading too taxing?
durquavian
Gawd
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Give it up, Renny has you chasing your tail now.
You are right. This not the original intent of the thread nor my comment from another. I was not trying to belittle NVIDIA or infer they are crap just that AMD has done a great job with their drivers. It is unfortunate I allowed it to go this far, I apologize.