Family of Teenager Killed in 116-MPH Tesla Crash Sues Company

Master_shake_

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welp gonna have to sue the power company too..

But what does that have to do with the issue at hand - the lawsuit? Their kids were already dead. Lithium batteries react differently than gasoline, so they just need different handling procedures after an accident. It still had nothing to do with their kids being extremely reckless and stupid.

Garages used to be detached from houses because early cars caught on fire all the time. New tech, takes time to adapt to new tech.

I wonder how pressurized hydrogen fuel cells react to 116 MPH crashes into walls :eek:


Turns out storing enough energy to safely travel 250-300 miles is a pretty tough nut to crack.
something something something oh the humanity?
 
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I think the crux of that portion of the case is that even after the car was towed, it apparently kept catching on fire in the salvage yard. Which isn't a design flaw on Tesla's part, it's a property of Lithium and one of the largest overlooked problems of putting hundreds of pounds of it on wheels and sending them off into the world to play bumper cars.
i think the crux of that portion is DONT GO 116 IN A F'N 35 ZONE.

the batteries could have burned a hole to china for all i f'n care.... going 116 in a 35 set in motion a chain of events that was entirely avoidable had they NOT done so. and to be honest its a much larger problem than sending out said batteries to play bumper car as you put it, when no one in their right mind should be playing bumper cars in this manner to begin with.
 

M76

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A real sports car would have real shit brakes in street use.


Yeah, the difference between sports and regular brakes is that sports brakes can stop the car multiple times without overheating. While regular brakes can only stop the car once or twice from high speed before experiencing brake fade. So in daily driving having "sports" brakes make absolutely no difference.
 

Extra-Titanian

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i think the crux of that portion is DONT GO 116 IN A F'N 35 ZONE.

the batteries could have burned a hole to china for all i f'n care.... going 116 in a 35 set in motion a chain of events that was entirely avoidable had they NOT done so. and to be honest its a much larger problem than sending out said batteries to play bumper car as you put it, when no one in their right mind should be playing bumper cars in this manner to begin with.
So your solution is.... put a governor on the car to limit how fast it can go?
 

matt167

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So, he had the limiter that his parents would have likely enabled removed.. The fact Tesla turned it off is why it could be Tesla's fault. But even if the limiter was set to say 65 mph. That wreck will still hurt a bit at 65 mph. I think the real question is if Tesla or whoever turned off the limiter have the authority to do so. And then they would have to prove the case that way.
I know that with Ford/ Mykey. Dealers won't just turn it off for you unless you verify you own the vehicle, which who knows, the kid might have actually had it in his name.

I don't think Tesla is to blame, even IF they did turn off the limiter without permission I doubt they would expect a supercar blast through town
 
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So your solution is.... put a governor on the car to limit how fast it can go?
no, my solution is even simpler than that. people who do just incredibly stupid things should be held responsible for their actions.


this does not mean stop advancing the safety of the vehicle overall, but lets not go all nutty about it when the actual issue was doing something that is just monumentally and undeniably stupid to begin with.
 

zkostik

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I suck at math and I realize that G's are a unit of acceleration, but G's are also used unofficially as a simplified manner of expressing deceleration in terms that a novice can grasp. I'm guessing that the impact was somewhere in the range of -100 G's. Then again, you'd have to know how long the vehicle took to decelerate after the impact. /Which you could calculate by measuring the distance the car traveled after the impact and the speed at impact.
How does this even matter at all? The dude was going 116mph on a public road which is nearly double a speed limit in most areas including highways. He signed his own death sentence and I'm glad he didn't take anyone else with him. I'm sure hid parents are grieving but as far as lawsuit goes, fuck them hard!
 

DukenukemX

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Yeah, the difference between sports and regular brakes is that sports brakes can stop the car multiple times without overheating. While regular brakes can only stop the car once or twice from high speed before experiencing brake fade. So in daily driving having "sports" brakes make absolutely no difference.
Brakes that have cross drilled rotors that are slotted are not good for stopping but for stopping repeatedly. Regular flat rotors with metallic brake pads are the best for stopping. The bigger the rotor and the bigger the caliper the better the car will stop, but then you have to worry about tires.

How does this even matter at all? The dude was going 116mph on a public road which is nearly double a speed limit in most areas including highways. He signed his own death sentence and I'm glad he didn't take anyone else with him. I'm sure hid parents are grieving but as far as lawsuit goes, fuck them hard!
Another thing, who approved to have the governor removed from the car? I'd imagine only the owner can agree to this. So who owned the car and agreed to remove the speed limiter?
 

Zarathustra[H]

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Brakes that have cross drilled rotors that are slotted are not good for stopping but for stopping repeatedly. Regular flat rotors with metallic brake pads are the best for stopping. The bigger the rotor and the bigger the caliper the better the car will stop, but then you have to worry about tires.
Yeah, unless you have something really awfully designed, unless you are repeatedly stopping from high speed just about every brake design will hit the friction limits of the tires before it hits the limit of the brakes.

That said, driving around at 100mph speeds on back roads, you may actually be repeatedly braking from very high speeds.

I very much doubt this accident was caused by a limitation of the car though. We are talking about a dumb kid driving over 100mph on back roads. He probably just wiped out.

The fact that they are bringing this lawsuit in the first place is pretty outrageous. Any reasonable judge will throw this out before it goes to trial.
 

Reader67

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Quite surprising, a kid who wasn't secure in the back seat survived after he got ejected from the car.
 

Zarathustra[H]

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So,

My take on this case is as follows:

- The kid was driving a car at 116mph around a curve while passing in a 30mph zone in a residential area, and the parents want to blame someone else than their snowflake angel who could do no wrong...
- The fault in these deaths is like 90% on the kid himself and maybe 10% on the parents for being stupid enough to put their teenager in a fancy fast car.
- In no way, shape or form is Tesla at fault in any way when it comes to the deaths of these kids.
- I hope the judge not only throws the case out, but fines them for wasting the courts time
 
Last edited:

zkostik

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So,

My take on this case is as follows:

- The kid was driving a car at 116mph around a curve while passing in a 30mph zone in a residential area, and the parents what to blame someone else than their snowflake angel who could do no wrong...
- The fault in these deaths is like 90% on the kid himself and maybe 10% on the parents for being stupid enough to put their teenager in a fancy fast car.
- In no way, shape or form is Tesla at fault in any way when it comes to the deaths of these kids.
- I hope the judge not only throws the case out, but fines them for wasting the courts time
Yup, couldn't agree more but we live in USA and here people seem to sue for anything even if they are clearly wrong (but sadly don't necessarily lose). As for the governor, what's the limit on Tesla? When I was young I did this much on a Toyota Celica GT-S, but in a straight line, though no arugment that's beyond stupid. I think it's a very dumb idea to get a fast or sporty car for a teenager. Young blood calls for speed and it usually results in someone dying, and in many cases others are taken along with is really sad.
 

nutzo

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On an electric vehicle like a Tesla you don't need large brakes.

Most of the braking is done by running the motors backwards as generators. The traditional disc brakes are there for little more than show and as a backup if something electric fails. They don't get used much at all. I'm surprised they don't rust more from disuse.
No. You still need large enough brakes for an emergency stop or extended down hill driving.

This is one of the reasons Toyota Hybrids (like the Prius and the Camry Hybrid) have brake pads that can last over 200,000 miles.
The pads on the 4 cyl non-hybrid Camry and the hybrid are basically the same size. You just uses them a lot less on the hybrid due to the regenerative braking.
At 50,000 miles, the pads on my Camry Hybrid still look almost like new. Should have no problem getting 200,000 miles.
 

nutzo

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On an electric vehicle like a Tesla you don't need large brakes.
Most of the braking is done by running the motors backwards as generators. The traditional disc brakes are there for little more than show and as a backup if something electric fails. They don't get used much at all. I'm surprised they don't rust more from disuse.
Hybrids tend more brake problems due to rust or sticking calipers than they due to the pads wearing out.
That's what happens when you can drive a car for 10+ years without ever having the brakes worked on.
 

ZiggyDeath

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Just some points pulled from the NTSB Report:


-in a 30mph zone, right before a caution 25mph left curve
-rear seat passenger was ejected from vehicle

Witness report
-car attempted a left pass, in the shared center lane
-loss control on attempt to go back into right lane
-struck curb, crossed sidewalk, smashed into residence
-continued south struck a wall - upon second impact, car ignited

Onboard Restraint Control Log
-3 seconds before crash, 116mph
-2 seconds before crash, 108mph when brakes had been engaged, steering wheel turned, traction stability control engaged
-Airbag Deployment (crash detected), 86mph, brakes still engaged, wheel still turned
-Probably no further logging data since the RCM is supposedly only recording the 5 seconds prior to airbag deployment.
*I'm surprised it survived the fire.

Uninformed Observation about picture:
Looking at the fire damage, I assume the missing left side was more than likely damage caused by the car literally smashing itself to pieces from two impacts. The battery pack of the Model S extends to the front wheels. Given the comparatively light damage to the right, I'd say it's fair to say that the battery was severely compromised by the impacts. Whatever thermal runaway protection it had was probably useless when you turn several hundred cells into lithium mush.

HWY18FH013-prelim-fig2.jpg
 

Dekoth-E-

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My work buddies 18 year old daughter has a Hellcat...Im not sure how he thinks thats a good idea, but it's his kid.



not really...regen braking is done with the motors by drag they produce when not being powered ..they turn into generators ..but the base brakes are very important and are what is used to stop the car
Your work buddy is a dumbass and apparently doesn't care about his daughters life.
 

James Robinson

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Next.. we sue Proctor and Gamble for making Tide Pods look so delicious! Society has managed to all but eliminate Darwinism.. and now the fucktards are free to roam the lands uninhibited.. breeding without restraint
 

UnrealCpu

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I still say the Tesa has shit brakes, not like a porche or a real sports car. Also yes whoever said tires make a huge difference is true especially if the climate is 55+ degrees , however since the accident took place in florida so poor tire traction due to freezing temps, probably wasnt the case for this shit car.

It was the lack of driving skills from a child and the fact that this car doesnt deserve to go faster than 95mph because it isnt a godamn sports car that is meant to handle around corners.

So all you trolls who think they know sports cars yes brakes and tires matter. The Tesla model 3 is not s sports car. I am sure the car had relatively brand new tires since the car was just released this a few months ago.

lol a simple 2 sec google search gave me this

Now the brakes are bad?
Submitted by phil on May 21, 2018
https://www.consumerreports.org/hybrids-evs/tesla-model-3-review-falls-s...

Consumer Reports found the Model 3 braking so poor and so inconsistent, that it went and got a second Model 3 to test. Testing with the second car confirmed major problems with stopping distance. Even worse, Car & Driver did its own testing, and apparently found similar results - braking distance inconsistency was described as "weird", "bizarre", and unprecedented. C&D needed 196 feet to stop a Model 3 from 70mph - that could be awfully dangerous!

I am willing to compromise on a lot of things - price, delivery delays, quirky controls, etc. - for a very cool car. But I refuse to compromise my family's safety.

A Tesla spokeswoman responded that they may be able to fix the brakes thru a software update. Is that possible? Is it likely? Is anyone else troubled by this?


Car and Driver
Push the Model 3 a bit closer to its handling limits, as we did on our 10Best loop, and the tires give up early and understeer becomes the predominant dynamic trait.

VIEW 80 PHOTOS
2018-tesla-model-3-inline4-photo-706227-s-original.jpg


Although the Model 3 is a bit less involving than the best sports sedans on these roads, it lacks the refined isolation of its similarly priced rivals. The stout structure stifles harsh impacts, but you do hear what’s going on below as the tires persistently thwack and thrum over pavement imperfections


oh btw a model 3 tried to play with me on the highway and it couldnt keep up with my CTR. Car is crap and cant handle or brake and the fact a teenager drove the car , is the real reason he got killed.

So all you tesla owners out there do us all a favor stay in the right lane while real sport cars drive in the left lane.
 

DukenukemX

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So all you tesla owners out there do us all a favor stay in the right lane while real sport cars drive in the left lane.
What exactly do you expect to do in any lane with a sports car? I get it you have a hate boner for Tesla but brakes didn't speed the car up to 100 mph. I have a Corvette myself and no amount of sports car is going to save that kids life.
 

babochee

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The truth is, no teenager - no matter how wealthy they or their parents are - should ever be in the position to drive a fancy car,


Unfortunately they have all started rusting to shit now (they are almost 30 years old now...) so we'll have to find something else equally slow, boring and robust.

Any suggestions?
Id say a Ford Flex but those twin turbos... >_<
 

Uvaman2

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I still say the Tesa has shit brakes, not like a porche or a real sports car. Also yes whoever said tires make a huge difference is true especially if the climate is 55+ degrees , however since the accident took place in florida so poor tire traction due to freezing temps, probably wasnt the case for this shit car.

It was the lack of driving skills from a child and the fact that this car doesnt deserve to go faster than 95mph because it isnt a godamn sports car that is meant to handle around corners.

So all you trolls who think they know sports cars yes brakes and tires matter. The Tesla model 3 is not s sports car. I am sure the car had relatively brand new tires since the car was just released this a few months ago.

lol a simple 2 sec google search gave me this

Now the brakes are bad?
Submitted by phil on May 21, 2018
https://www.consumerreports.org/hybrids-evs/tesla-model-3-review-falls-s...

Consumer Reports found the Model 3 braking so poor and so inconsistent, that it went and got a second Model 3 to test. Testing with the second car confirmed major problems with stopping distance. Even worse, Car & Driver did its own testing, and apparently found similar results - braking distance inconsistency was described as "weird", "bizarre", and unprecedented. C&D needed 196 feet to stop a Model 3 from 70mph - that could be awfully dangerous!

I am willing to compromise on a lot of things - price, delivery delays, quirky controls, etc. - for a very cool car. But I refuse to compromise my family's safety.

A Tesla spokeswoman responded that they may be able to fix the brakes thru a software update. Is that possible? Is it likely? Is anyone else troubled by this?


Car and Driver
Push the Model 3 a bit closer to its handling limits, as we did on our 10Best loop, and the tires give up early and understeer becomes the predominant dynamic trait.

VIEW 80 PHOTOSView attachment 134904

Although the Model 3 is a bit less involving than the best sports sedans on these roads, it lacks the refined isolation of its similarly priced rivals. The stout structure stifles harsh impacts, but you do hear what’s going on below as the tires persistently thwack and thrum over pavement imperfections


oh btw a model 3 tried to play with me on the highway and it couldnt keep up with my CTR. Car is crap and cant handle or brake and the fact a teenager drove the car , is the real reason he got killed.

So all you tesla owners out there do us all a favor stay in the right lane while real sport cars drive in the left lane.
I wouldn't know much about specifics of the model 3, but yes it is entirely possible its about the implementation of the control systems.
It is just hard to believe Tesla's brakes are 'shit' these systems (car brake systems) are well honed and researched by now... Plus, i think they are regulated too.
Yes , track oriented cars have brakes that don't fade, but in turn are not adequate for "cold" (i dont mean winter, i mean room temp) breaking, so yeah if you go too sports the issue flips, you gotta have those brakes hot for them to work properly... Anyway like several mentioned, at those speeds, not much any brake system can do .. the car is basically flying.
Horrible situation for the parents, i cant imagine.
 

M76

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Brakes that have cross drilled rotors that are slotted are not good for stopping but for stopping repeatedly. Regular flat rotors with metallic brake pads are the best for stopping. The bigger the rotor and the bigger the caliper the better the car will stop, but then you have to worry about tires.
I'm yet to see a car that couldn't lock it's wheels in perfect conditions with factory wheels. If the brakes are good enough to lock the wheels on a perfect dry road, then they're good enough. Of course ABS won't let you lock wheels, but if ABS activates during braking it's the same thing.
 

ZiggyDeath

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I still say the Tesa has shit brakes, not like a porche or a real sports car. Also yes whoever said tires make a huge difference is true especially if the climate is 55+ degrees , however since the accident took place in florida so poor tire traction due to freezing temps, probably wasnt the case for this shit car.

It was the lack of driving skills from a child and the fact that this car doesnt deserve to go faster than 95mph because it isnt a godamn sports car that is meant to handle around corners.


oh btw a model 3 tried to play with me on the highway and it couldnt keep up with my CTR. Car is crap and cant handle or brake and the fact a teenager drove the car , is the real reason he got killed.
Not sure why you're harping about the Model 3's brake performance when it was a Model S that crashed. A car that has proven itself to actually have very good braking performance despite how much it weighs.
 

Laowai

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I'd bet that the family went to 3 or 4 lawyers before they found one that would take the case.
I'd bet that no less than 5 lawyers went hunting down the family. The sharks smelled blood in the water at the word Tesla.
 

Crosshairs

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Your work buddy is a dumbass and apparently doesn't care about his daughters life.

None of us thought it was a good idea, but none of us know her like he does. He is actually a pretty smart guy that knows his daughter very well.

She bought it new 2 years ago and hasn't put a single scratch on it...not all teenagaers are irresponsible
 

sirmonkey1985

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So,

My take on this case is as follows:

- The kid was driving a car at 116mph around a curve while passing in a 30mph zone in a residential area, and the parents want to blame someone else than their snowflake angel who could do no wrong...
- The fault in these deaths is like 90% on the kid himself and maybe 10% on the parents for being stupid enough to put their teenager in a fancy fast car.
- In no way, shape or form is Tesla at fault in any way when it comes to the deaths of these kids.
- I hope the judge not only throws the case out, but fines them for wasting the courts time
honestly i hope a judge takes this case just so he or she can roast the hell out of the parents in front of the public. sadly there's no way in hell this makes a court room and Tesla better not hand them a dime.

had a similar thing happen when my friend got killed when he was hit by a truck illegally riding his bike across a main road, some dumb shit lawyer convinced her to try to sue the driver that killed him and repeatedly called me over and over for about a month asking the same question trying to get me to back up the case that the driver was at fault which he wasn't.
 
D

Deleted member 222586

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This should be dismissed with prejudice. The driver is the cause, not the car. He was tripling the speed limit ffs
 

Dekoth-E-

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None of us thought it was a good idea, but none of us know her like he does. He is actually a pretty smart guy that knows his daughter very well.

She bought it new 2 years ago and hasn't put a single scratch on it...not all teenagaers are irresponsible
Not all, but that still doesn't make it a good decision. At the end of the day he gambled with her life.
 

Crosshairs

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Not all, but that still doesn't make it a good decision. At the end of the day he gambled with her life.
Letting your kids outside is gambling with their lives...each parent has to decide the risk they are willing to take with their own children.


She is 18 years old, at the end of the day, she is capable of making her own decisions ..you and I may not agree with it, but it's not our place to judge because we dont have all the facts .
 

Woody1150

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None of us thought it was a good idea, but none of us know her like he does. He is actually a pretty smart guy that knows his daughter very well.

She bought it new 2 years ago and hasn't put a single scratch on it...not all teenagaers are irresponsible
I think most were under the impression your work buddy bought the car for her. Not that it really makes a difference in my mind, but if SHE bought the car I don't see how anyone could say much. Well, except how the heck an 18 yr old has that kind of money to spend on a car.

I agree though, not all teenagers are stupid. Some kids mature faster than others, especially girls. For all we know, she babies that car.
 

Darunion

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I hope someone informs the grieving parents what legal fees can cost when this suit fails miserably.

Tired of the 'let's stick it to tesla' going on. If they were driving a mustang would they be going after ford? Or is it just thought of as an easy payday to go after this company? I used to drive like that when I was young, stupid of me of course I see that now. I am glad I nor anyone else ever got hurt but had anyone it would be completely my fault.

Sarcasm time: I mean we all keep saying if you are going to blame guns for crimes you have to blame cars just as well. Maybe that is starting to happen? :p
 
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Jeez. That seems like asking for trouble.

IMHO there are three rules to getting a teenager a car. It has to be:
- Big
- Slow
- Ugly

If it isn't all three, you have to veto it. Even if they are buying it with their own money, if it doesn't meet the above three, you've got to put on your big boy pants, and put your foot down and say NO, not while you live in my house!
My kid is going to stroll into school with something like this:

am-general-m35a2-deuce-and-a-half-military-truck-for-sale-2018-08-16-1-1024x576.jpg



As for the accident in the OP's post, I feel for the family. I could never imagine what it feels like to lose your child. But ultimately,
giphy.gif
 

lcpiper

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I think the crux of that portion of the case is that even after the car was towed, it apparently kept catching on fire in the salvage yard. Which isn't a design flaw on Tesla's part, it's a property of Lithium and one of the largest overlooked problems of putting hundreds of pounds of it on wheels and sending them off into the world to play bumper cars.

Ahhhh, I'm not so sold on the idea that Lithium for vehicle batteries is bad for this reason. The catching fire after thing.

A tank crewman is in an Armored vehicle not only with a fuel tank of jet plane fuel, but also containing many rounds of ammunition for the main gun and the machineguns. In the past, explosions in the ammunition storage were quite spectacular and usually fatal for the entire crew.

Now granted, they are war machines, but they did and do catch fire as a result of being attacked with anti-armor weapon systems. Once on fire, things get very exciting for the vehicle, but the crew usually escape with their lives if the initial attack didn't kill them outright.

What I am trying to illustrate is that what happens after the initial incident and more importantly, after the occupants are removed or escape under their own power, is of far less consequence, even up to and including a fiery conflagration. To me, it's a so what, specially if the people all walk away.
 

lcpiper

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The truth is, no teenager - no matter how wealthy they or their parents are - should ever be in the position to drive a fancy car,

There are way too many temptations.

A teenager should have a car that not only looks slow and boring, but also is. Basic transportation. No matter how many air bags you throw at it to make it safer, a teenager does not need the temptation of a fast car.

For the longest time my recommendation for new drivers was to get them a early 90's Volvo 240DL Wagon (no turbo). 0-60 in like 16 seconds, and looks that would put a grandmother to sleep:

View attachment 134845

Unfortunately they have all started rusting to shit now (they are almost 30 years old now...) so we'll have to find something else equally slow, boring and robust.

Any suggestions?

If a teenager likes their car and want to show it off to their friends, you have failed as a parent.

Mine are past this age, one got a Civic and the other a Mits Mirage. So call them small economical and less than sexy, but they were girls, not boys so.

But I on the other hand drove a rocket, a 1941 Ford Coupe with a Small Block 400 (Chevy), 4-speed Muncie, Dayna "Spicer 60" rear end, 4:10 gear ratio, duel Holley 650s on top of a tunnel-ram intake at 10.5:1 compression and a magneto for ignition. To start the car in the winter I needed a battery charger connected, and a shot of ether into the intake.

Let's just say that I gave Darwin's tail a tug more than once. I also only got 4 MPG and ran out of gas frequently as none of the old gages worked, not even the speedometer, just the tach and the temp gage worked really.

This one is almost a twin;

10317203-1941-ford-coupe-std.jpg
 

Hatriot

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Letting your kids outside is gambling with their lives...each parent has to decide the risk they are willing to take with their own children.


She is 18 years old, at the end of the day, she is capable of making her own decisions ..you and I may not agree with it, but it's not our place to judge because we dont have all the facts .
Sure letting them be born is a gamble, but you have to show some maturity in mitigating that risk. He sounds like he may have the same mentality as these parents. I have kids, and I get that you want to make them happy, but sometimes you have to be the adult for their own good.

Capable of making her own decisions, but can't afford to buy her own car. Also, insurance companies "judge" individuals based on group dynamics all the time, and with good reason.
 
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