Fallout 3 - Catered towards console fans, Bethesda claims they are "console players"

[Litfod]

The community even quieried the Bioshock developers on getting things like correct aspect ratios and properly implimented widescreen done right and then even confirmed specifically the details on what the community was worried about AND THEY STILL GOT IT WRONG

No, they didn't. There are just a lot of whiny, reactionary idiots out there who have no idea what they're talking about.
I was with you on your console hate-list until you hit that point, because I just knew you meant Bioshock, and while it console-ified many things (like the shitty mouse acceleration) there was nothing "wrong" with it's widescreen implementation.

 

[Krenum]

Can anyone name a single aspect from fallout 1 or 2 that wouldn't work fine on a console? The interfaces (especially inventory) were dead simple and mostly crappy anyway. Character development wasn't overly complicated either and there was no aiming, so mouse controls are irrelevant.

I know its trendy to jump on this console hate bandwagon, but seriously, I challenge anyone who played the first two extensively to come up with a specific concern regarding this. I understand people's concerns in general on this topic but in this case it doesn't even apply. I'd be willing to bet most people complaining didn't even play the originals.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallout:_Brotherhood_of_Steel

Seriously , need I say more? Go do some research.

 

[HaMMerHeD]

Or, we could stop speculating that the world is going to end every time a multi-platform game is announced, wait until the game comes out, and then make a judgement as to whether or not YOU like it, understanding that YOU not liking it doesn't mean that anyone else won't (or shouldn't) like it.

How about that?

 

[John721]

My big question for Fallout 3 is this : will there be a construction set / toolset for creating our own mods, missions/quests, and so on? The prospect of community made content would be a big plus for me, personally.

Beyond that, I'll probably wait for reviews, a patch, and a price drop before buying. That seems to be my usual game buying strategy these days.

 

[Krenum]

My big question for Fallout 3 is this : will there be a construction set / toolset for creating our own mods, missions/quests, and so on? The prospect of community made content would be a big plus for me, personally.

Beyond that, I'll probably wait for reviews, a patch, and a price drop before buying. That seems to be my usual game buying strategy these days.

Yes I would like to know this also, seeing how its using a modified version of the Oblivion engine I would assume it will have full functionality with mods, hopefully it will.

 

[krameriffic]

Yeah the interface on PC was my only complaint on Oblivion. Nothing a few mods fixed though. As long as Bethesda makes this game very moddable like Oblivion was and still is, then im not really worried. Bring on the mods!!!

The biggest complaint about Oblivion was the utterly asinine leveled-content system the game had followed shortly by the fucking retarded sequence at the end where you are required to shut about 20 oblivion gates before the main storyline can progress.

As long as they stay away from level normalizing enemies (who remembers bandits with Daedric armor?) it should be fine in the gameplay department.

 

[cannondale06]

No, they didn't. There are just a lot of whiny, reactionary idiots out there who have no idea what they're talking about.
I was with you on your console hate-list until you hit that point, because I just knew you meant Bioshock, and while it console-ified many things (like the shitty mouse acceleration) there was nothing "wrong" with it's widescreen implementation.

Cutting off the top and bottom doesnt make it widescreen. Please dont give me the BS that they just gave 4:3 viewers more height. Its real simple.... properly implemented widescreen support would add more to the sides then 4:3 users get. the end.

 

[FallenMystic]

Or, we could stop speculating that the world is going to end every time a multi-platform game is announced, wait until the game comes out, and then make a judgement as to whether or not YOU like it, understanding that YOU not liking it doesn't mean that anyone else won't (or shouldn't) like it.

How about that?

Now why do that; it seems to be much more constructive to simply speculate as to what it will be like and bitch about it... Seriously you could give some people a bag of cash and they would complain that its not the right color bag or the handles don't feel right.

As suggested, why not wait; see what it is going to be and then complain about it. There hasn't even been any gameplay media released and people already seem to know exactly how it will play out...

 

[GoldenTiger]

responses in red

• Dumbed down graphics made to meet the lowest common demoninator
  I thought PC games pushing the limits too much is hurting the image (see Crysis)
  I've never personally said that, Crysis didn't require an uber PC, only to run in max settins, it's perfectly acceptable to have high end settings in a game if it scales well for people with slow PC's
• Dumbed down interface built for low resolution screens
• Dumbed down interface designed to be navigated with analogue sticks
• Over simplified gameplay and game mechanics to cater to console kiddies
  News flash: Games are targeted to many audiences. But I guess all games on consoles are kiddie now. You're part of the game violence stigma problem aren't you?
  Don't care about "games" in general, I care about Fallout3 remaining true to the design principles of the first 2, it always was target at adults as a very mature game, they've already admited they're removing kids from the game world, which in fallout 2 you could blow in half if you so chose to.
• Over simplified story which is suitable for average console gaming session of 20 minutes
  what the? And so many PC games are so rich in story?
  Fallout 1 and 2, again don't care about "games" in general I care about this being true to it's roots
• Removal of adult themes to allow a console kiddy rating
  MA rating for Fallout
  See above
• Removal of gore/violence to allow a console kiddy rating
  Fallout 3 very very bloody
  Fallout3 toned down, see above
• Mouse acceleration you can't turn off
• Low FOV you can't turn up
• Incorrectly implimented widescreen
• Incorrect or missing correct PC screen aspect ratios
  Only noticed by a small percentage of people. The same type of people who count pixels to identify resolutions on console games
  Arument ad hominem, attack on person to belittle the importance of the actual subject in question, this is a genuine straying from accepted standards and shouldn't be tolerated by anyone, your casual aproach to this only encourages it.
• Poor frame rates usualy associated with games optimised to run well on consoles
  Poor frame rates can easily affect any game
  Poor performance is commonly associated with ports or games developed in parrallel for more than 1 system due to optimisation being taylored towards 1 system, ususly the underdog (console)
• Frequent loading that any half decent PC could avoid
  Frequent loading?
  Thief 3, GTA3, GTA VC, Assassins Creed, many cross developed games suffer from loading zones that need not exist on the PC version, limitations brought on by inferiour memory capacity of consoles
• Significantly lower difficulty
  Based off of.......
  Based off the massively simplified gameplay mechanics present in the average console game
• Bad AA and AF support, and generally dumbed down control over graphics
  PC versions have typically still looked better than console counterparts
  This is not a good argument for getting this stuff wrong, whether it looks better to start with or not
• Stupid minigames to entertain the ADD console kiddies
  You're grasping for anything now
  See Bioshocks water puzzle hacking, haha
• Dumbed down HUD with fat low resolution icons and left over console HUD elements like "press A button to fire"

QFT (in agreement with Frostex).

 

[GoldenTiger]

No, they didn't. There are just a lot of whiny, reactionary idiots out there who have no idea what they're talking about.
I was with you on your console hate-list until you hit that point, because I just knew you meant Bioshock, and while it console-ified many things (like the shitty mouse acceleration) there was nothing "wrong" with it's widescreen implementation.

I sincerely hope this is a joke.. widescreen is NOT supposed to chop off the top and bottom of the image (Vertical Minus) like Bioshock did it. It's supposed to add FOV and picture space to the sides, while maintaining the same vertical height (Horizontal Plus). What they did is essentially what they do to Pan & Scan vs. Widescreen DVD's.

 

[GoldenTiger]

Or, we could stop speculating that the world is going to end every time a multi-platform game is announced, wait until the game comes out,

Then it's too late, and history repeats itself as it has been. That's why people complain in advance, in hopes of stopping that.

 

[Silus]

It's true, it comes from the project lead on the Fallout 3 team so it's definitely true.

I feel like your PC gaming spirit is slowly being crushed after reading all of your posts

It really is. Here I am, actually buying PC Games and supporting these companies and they screw me over and over and sometimes even call me a "bloody pirate" with their copy protection measures, even if I bought the damn game...

Dumbing down and consolidifying a PC Game, which is a symptom of console games ported to PC, saddens me greatly. I have a PC!!! I want the controls, the interface and the gameplay adjusted to it and NOT to some crappy game controller or menus with huge letters and just 3 options to adjust graphics settings...And I want Anti-Aliasing too!!!!

I guess I'll need to start re-playing all the old games I bought in the past, since I'll surely buy less and less PC Games, with trends like these...

 

[Silus]

you didn't have a problem with Oblivion if I recall correctly. The complaint about Fallout 3 is this might be Oblivion with guns.

Although...I really don't know what was complicated from the original fallouts really. I mean the whole thing seems to be changed anyhow, and now they mention this and there is going to be a problem? I'm still looking forward to this. I'm not exactly sure what is dumbed down in Fallout.

Not quite. I didn't like what they did with the inventory system and features like fast travel and compass, but the fast travel was something I wasn't forced to use and the compass was easily removed with a script change.

The worse part, were really the graphics, especially the distant soup like textures, which were obviously used, due to console's lack of processing power.

But overall, I liked Oblivion and mods helped disguise its shortcomings, but it wasn't better than Morrowind.

Fallout 3 however, and according to these news, is a console game first and foremost, which probably means the interface is crappy, few settings can be adjusted and gameplay will be dumbed down. Oblivion was never said to be this way, even if in the end, it did have console like features.

 

[Netrat33]

Not quite. I didn't like what they did with the inventory system and features like fast travel and compass, but the fast travel was something I wasn't forced to use and the compass was easily removed with a script change.

Just incase, fast travel was in the original Arena (Elder Scrolls 1) That's not a console feature.

 

[Netrat33]

I'mj just going to pick a few points since the last time i tried to comment it just looked like a difficult to read response so I deleted it

Stupid minigames to entertain the ADD console kiddies
See Bioshocks water puzzle hacking, haha

Sort of like those hacking mini games in system shock?

Frequent loading that any half decent PC could avoid
Frequent loading?
Thief 3, GTA3, GTA VC, Assassins Creed, many cross developed games suffer from loading zones that need not exist on the PC version, limitations brought on by inferiour memory capacity of consoles

Ever played the Witcher? Got the most loading in any game I've ever played. Crysis also gives you a nice little wait before you hope into the game. I will give you Assassin's creed because I'm shocked they kept ALL of that in the pc version. On PS3/360 all you had to do was just drop out the game by pushing the PS/Guide button. I don't know why they didn't make it as simple as that for the pc.

 

[Silus]

Just incase, fast travel was in the original Arena (Elder Scrolls 1) That's not a console feature.

And I didn't label it as one. I did say I didn't like it, but could live with it, since I'm not forced to use it.

Either way, it can be considered a console feature.

 

[Netrat33]

Either way, it can be considered a console feature.

Sorry. No it can't. Unless you like you like to ignore history. Consoles before Elder Scrolls 1 never had an open ended game. Fast Travel was implement in Arena.

 

[Silus]

Sorry. No it can't. Unless you like you like to ignore history. Consoles before Elder Scrolls 1 never had an open ended game. Fast Travel was implement in Arena.

I'm not getting into a "Yes, it can", "No, it can't" argument, so I'll just say this.

Morrowind didn't have fast travel. You could accomplish a similar feature (even though much limited), with mark / recall spells. For Oblivion, they removed the mark / recall spells, removed Silt Striders and boats and added Horses and Fast Travel. Now a feature that essentially lets a player "avoid" one of the key gameplay elements of a game such as Oblivion - exploration - was added because of consoles, not because it existed in a very old version of the Elder Scrolls series.

 

[Netrat33]

I'm not getting into a "Yes, it can", "No, it can't" argument, so I'll just say this.

Morrowind didn't have fast travel. You could accomplish a similar feature (even though much limited), with mark / recall spells. For Oblivion, they removed the mark / recall spells, removed Silt Striders and boats and added Horses and Fast Travel. Now a feature that essentially lets a player "avoid" one of the key gameplay elements of a game such as Oblivion - exploration - was added because of consoles, not because it existed in a very old version of the Elder Scrolls series.

cherry pick much?
Heaven forbid they go back to what they did in Elder Scrolls series (Arena and Daggerfall) before Morrowwind games as a design element. Oh I'm sorry suddenly it's console features

But your right: no games before Morrow wind ever exisited.

 

[bigredcat]

I'mj just going to pick a few points since the last time i tried to comment it just looked like a difficult to read response so I deleted it


Sort of like those hacking mini games in system shock?


Ever played the Witcher? Got the most loading in any game I've ever played. Crysis also gives you a nice little wait before you hope into the game. I will give you Assassin's creed because I'm shocked they kept ALL of that in the pc version. On PS3/360 all you had to do was just drop out the game by pushing the PS/Guide button. I don't know why they didn't make it as simple as that for the pc.

I didn't think the Witcher load times were that bad. A few seconds. I don't see an issue with that. I have seen much worse.

 

[Silus]

cherry pick much?
Heaven forbid they go back to what they did in Elder Scrolls series (Arena and Daggerfall) before Morrowwind games as a design element. Oh I'm sorry suddenly it's console features

But your right: no games before Morrow wind ever exisited.

Yes, yes, they put it in Oblivion because they already used it in Arena, not because of consoles

 

[Netrat33]

Yes, yes, they put it in Oblivion because they already used it in Arena, not because of consoles

You have no case and is it's very evident. You're just reaching for anything to hate

Time to start learning to enjoy ports or get out of pc gaming. That battle is clearly losing.

 

[Yaden]

FTFA:

People like myself and some people that work here actually grew up as hardcore PC guys, and now we're older, we have kids, we don't have that much time, so we've transitioned. We're console players now.

But we still have those PC game sensibilities. Those are the games we like. So I think BioShock has a little bit of that too. You can definitely feel the old System Shock roots in that game. So hopefully there's a trend there.

I was wondering if anyone actually read the quote in the article.

 

[Silus]

FTFA:

I was wondering if anyone actually read the quote in the article.

Yes and hence the bad reaction, because Bioshock is nothing more than a console port and definitely a bad example. Low resolution textures, dumb mini-games, glowing objectives, mouse acceleration...the list goes on...

If they are really taking Bioshock as an example, the only good thing I can expect from Fallout 3, is a good story.

 

[Frostex]

No, they didn't. There are just a lot of whiny, reactionary idiots out there who have no idea what they're talking about.
I was with you on your console hate-list until you hit that point, because I just knew you meant Bioshock, and while it console-ified many things (like the shitty mouse acceleration) there was nothing "wrong" with it's widescreen implementation.

I'm sorry but you're wrong. The community confronted the developers on their forums many months before the game was released and requested that widescreen be done correctly. By this I mean widescreen is horz+ rather than vert-, in horz+ we get greater horizontal field of view to fill the additional horizontal area on a widescreen monitor (in comparison to a 4:3 or 5:4 monitor) however in a vert- they chop off the top and bottom of the screen to make the original "square" image appear to fit widescreen monitor, this restricts field of view.

The developers SPECIFICALLY aknowledged this in the thread and evne listed the types of rendering techniques they were using to gurantee that this was done correctly.

And low and behold, on release day, all done completely ass backwards, loads of pissed off widescreen users...

Or, we could stop speculating that the world is going to end every time a multi-platform game is announced, wait until the game comes out, and then make a judgement as to whether or not YOU like it, understanding that YOU not liking it doesn't mean that anyone else won't (or shouldn't) like it.

How about that?

How about we take 2 seconds to analyse the trend of multiplatform developed games and see the re-occuring patterns of the PC version getting lumped with console triats, a great many of which are actually very easy to code correctly (widescreen, aspect ratios, FOV's etc)

If we make our frustration about these things public BEFORE the game is released maybe there's a chance it will be picked up on and somethign will be done about it, and we can fix this insane loop of mistakes that occurs again and again without any evidence of letting up.

Cutting off the top and bottom doesnt make it widescreen. Please dont give me the BS that they just gave 4:3 viewers more height. Its real simple.... properly implemented widescreen support would add more to the sides then 4:3 users get. the end.

Exactly correct.

Now why do that; it seems to be much more constructive to simply speculate as to what it will be like and bitch about it... Seriously you could give some people a bag of cash and they would complain that its not the right color bag or the handles don't feel right.

As suggested, why not wait; see what it is going to be and then complain about it. There hasn't even been any gameplay media released and people already seem to know exactly how it will play out...

Sorry but theres no evidence to show that developers are learning these subtle differences, in fact theres strong evidence to show a trend in the opposite direction, previously PC exclusive developers like Epic who made pretty damn good games, got a good deal of things wrong in UT3 to do with widescreen and the correct field of views etc.

Then it's too late, and history repeats itself as it has been. That's why people complain in advance, in hopes of stopping that.

Yeah my point exactly.

I'mj just going to pick a few points since the last time i tried to comment it just looked like a difficult to read response so I deleted it


Sort of like those hacking mini games in system shock?


Ever played the Witcher? Got the most loading in any game I've ever played. Crysis also gives you a nice little wait before you hope into the game. I will give you Assassin's creed because I'm shocked they kept ALL of that in the pc version. On PS3/360 all you had to do was just drop out the game by pushing the PS/Guide button. I don't know why they didn't make it as simple as that for the pc.

I never played system shock, so I don't know. Of course games exist on the PC which contain some of these traits I consider negative, they're just far more common in console games.

Again with loading, some PC exclusive games suffer these problems, but that doesn't invalidate my point that technical limitations of consoles are imposed into the PC version of a game due to lazy developers. The Thief games are a perfect example, 1 and 2 had immense maps and were PC only, you could free roam around entire mansions. Thief3 made for consoles as well had loading "portals" crammed everywhere which quite frankly ruined it. Assassins creed has these huge ethereal style walls that chop the cities up into smaller areas and it just looks stupid.

 

[Silus]

You have no case and is it's very evident. You're just reaching for anything to hate

Yes, since your "they used it in Oblivion, because they already used it in Arena" theory, is certainly the truth...

Time to start learning to enjoy ports or get out of pc gaming. That battle is clearly losing.

That much seems to be true, if the trend keeps up. I rather replay what I already own, than to support the developers that screw their loyal PC fanbase, that made them what they are today.

And guys like you are the reason why PC Gaming is suffering so much. You accept everything without a twitch, so obviously developers will continue to do it.

 

[Megalomaniac]

it really coming down to, you have to wait for the 1.5 patch release version or the game of the year edition or the special edition or whatever they call it. Many games ship half-baked.

so thats the deal. wait and see. wait for a review. See if the do proper widescreen.
see how they do the controls.

AND

go to their forums and tell them that you will do that.
they just might piss on PC gamers and say, we dont need this, plenty of console players will buy this game. other developers have done this.

 

[Netrat33]

I never played system shock, so I don't know. Of course games exist on the PC which contain some of these traits I consider negative, they're just far more common in console games.

Again with loading, some PC exclusive games suffer these problems, but that doesn't invalidate my point that technical limitations of consoles are imposed into the PC version of a game due to lazy developers. The Thief games are a perfect example, 1 and 2 had immense maps and were PC only, you could free roam around entire mansions. Thief3 made for consoles as well had loading "portals" crammed everywhere which quite frankly ruined it. Assassins creed has these huge ethereal style walls that chop the cities up into smaller areas and it just looks stupid.

It's funny because I never thought of mini games as a bad thing. It's just more to the game if done right. I did hate the hacking puzzles in both System Shock and Bioshock because I felt like they slowed down the pace. But some loved it. In GTA4 which i'm currently playing, I love the little mini games. I don't have to do them but they add a little extra. Assassin's creed with the flag hunt, I did some cities but not all. It didn't bother me but kind of fun.

Assassin's creeds cities block by ethereal walls is place because your character doesn't remember past those points yet. The whole cities opens up to where you don't have to worry about that anymore. That is a plot point of the game.

As to transitional areas. I mean really this has been around in tons of PC exclusive games. Baldur's game, Fallout are obviously not powerhouse games with graphics but huge in scale. HL2 did it a lot.

 

[Frostex]

It's funny because I never thought of mini games as a bad thing. It's just more to the game if done right. I did hate the hacking puzzles in both System Shock and Bioshock because I felt like they slowed down the pace. But some loved it. In GTA4 which i'm currently playing, I love the little mini games. I don't have to do them but they add a little extra. Assassin's creed with the flag hunt, I did some cities but not all. It didn't bother me but kind of fun.

Assassin's creeds cities block by ethereal walls is place because your character doesn't remember past those points yet. The whole cities opens up to where you don't have to worry about that anymore. That is a plot point of the game.

As to transitional areas. I mean really this has been around in tons of PC exclusive games. Baldur's game, Fallout are obviously not powerhouse games with graphics but huge in scale. HL2 did it a lot.

I see mini games as way of attempting to keep all the ADD kids enjoying your game. *shrug*

Ah, OK off the mark with Assassins Creed, I'm only partially through the game, I assumed the large ethereal walls were loading zones, my bad.

Loading zones are a burden on all platforms to some extent, but we have good proof of PC only titles that didn't require indivudal loading zones, had sequels made which were multiplatform that all of sudden did require them, or at least far more frequently.

Thief3 is really the best example I can give of this, and in fact MANY of the issues with multiplatform developed games exist in that game, most of the major gamesplay mechanics were vastly simplified and dumbed down.

 

[Netrat33]

Yes, since your "they used it in Oblivion, because they already used it in Arena" theory, is certainly the truth...

*laughing* Look. I can understand some of the consolitis factors in games and dislikes they bring. But this one is just insane. Is Morrowind your first experience with The Elder Scrolls? It simply doesn't make any sense to state Fast Travel is a console feature being a part of PC gaming for years. Especially since like you stated: It's an Option! The whole point of the game is if your more focused on the story you can get to the story or more for exploration you have the best of both worlds, just like all the Elder Scrolls before. The point is NOT JUST exploration. That's a massive bonus to the game.

And guys like you are the reason why PC Gaming is suffering so much. You accept everything without a twitch, so obviously developers will continue to do it.

Interesting since I've been buying PC games for years! All that money I spent on PC gaming and I'm the reason it's suffering. Heh! Not the freeloaders out there (I'm not accusing you of that. I think you actually do a REAL protest of not buying a game and not pirating it either which is commendable) Even during the "golden age" of pc gaming that also included copy protections and ports (although ports were far more rare with Earthworm Jim, Rayman, Mortal Kombat and such).

 

[Q-BZ]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallout:_Brotherhood_of_Steel

Seriously , need I say more? Go do some research.

Indeed.

 

[Roufuss]

You have no case and is it's very evident. You're just reaching for anything to hate

Time to start learning to enjoy ports or get out of pc gaming. That battle is clearly losing.

I checked up on what you said about ports being the majority of PC gaming, and you're right - granted, I only used the Gamestop PC Coming Soon list, but I only found 4 or 5 titles this year that were PC exclusive.

Space Siege
Spore
Stalker: Clear Sky
Warhammer Online

I think there might have been one or two more? And you know Sega and Chris Taylor will port Space Siege eventually. The rest of the list was console ports, like Saints Row 2, Mercs 2, etc etc.

Well, if anything, I'm definitely getting Stalker: Clear Sky. I don't play many PC games since none of them feel natural on a PC anymore, but Stalker is one where the dev's tailor it specifically for the PC and it feels like an experience you can't get anywhere else.

 

[merlin704]

I'm happy to see more PC games geared more toward consoles. I quit upgrading my PC a year ago when I purchased my 360. Hell I couldn't tell you the last time I turned it on. It's not like my PC is a piece of shit either. There are just more games I would rather play on the 360 than PC. I couldn't tell you the last time I saw a game come out for PC that blew me away. I think HL2 was the last game that did this.

It's not like I'm some young thundercat either that is just jumping on the console wagon. My first console was an intellivision and my first PC was a 486/DX2 playing Doom. I go way back with games but now I just feel more comfortable sitting on my couch playing my 360 on my 65in Panasonic plasma.

Who knows though, there may be another game for the PC this year brings me back.

 

[dust2dust43]

If i have not played the first 2 Fallouts will i be completely lost with the new one?

 

[heatsinker]

If i have not played the first 2 Fallouts will i be completely lost with the new one?

Highly doubt it. Casual gamers had no problems picking up Oblivion without even having heard of Arena or Daggerfall.

 

[phide]

I'm happy to see more PC games geared more toward consoles.

I don't mind developers making games console-centric, but what I do find issue with is developers simply taking what they develop primarily for consoles and porting that over to Windows without making any attempts to improve the experience. There's no practical reason why Bethesda couldn't have implemented a Morrowind-style GUI for the PC release of Oblivion (inarguably a superior GUI for PC users), but there was little to no effort expended in attempting to leverage the more precise, more elaborate control schemes available to PC users. It wouldn't have been difficult nor time-consuming for them to have given us a somewhat more robust GUI, but they didn't give a damn. The community had to fix that, and some of the solutions yielded a massive improvement despite being sickeningly simple (BTMod).

I think a key issue here is the fear of cannibalization. For whatever reason (most likely "piracy"), publishers/developers seem to want a greater number of console buyers as opposed to PC buyers, and few developers risk cannibalizing console sales by improving a title, in any way, for PC users. In Oblivion, you might recall that Bethesda had a mechanism designed not to allow us to run HDR and MSAA at the same time despite there being hardware available at the time that supported that (ATi's R5xx series). Despite complaints from the community, no effort was expended in resolving that simple issue of the launcher application not allowing both HDR and MSAA to be selected, which probably would have taken five minutes or less to fix. ATi was first to take the matter into their own hands with their Chuck fix, and NVIDIA followed by adding a game-specific profile in their drivers and offering instructions on how to bypass the lock that Bethesda placed on HDR+AA. What exactly was the reasoning behind that?

Consoles and PCs are different platforms, and developers need to understand this. PC gamers are a different audience with different expectations, and we have an extremely easy path to pirated software. We can be a lucrative market if developers and publishers simply make the right decisions with respect to cross-platform releases. Publishers just aren't investing in their PC ports these days, and that's a critical mistake. Rather than realizing that, and making changes to rectify that mistake, they run around blaming piracy -- and blaming us -- for lackluster PC sales.

Bethesda can shove Fallout 3 up their collective ass.

 

[Frostex]

I don't mind developers making games console-centric, but what I do find issue with is developers simply taking what they develop primarily for consoles and porting that over to Windows without making any attempts to improve the experience. There's no practical reason why Bethesda couldn't have implemented a Morrowind-style GUI for the PC release of Oblivion (inarguably a superior GUI for PC users), but there was little to no effort expended in attempting to leverage the more precise, more elaborate control schemes available to PC users. It wouldn't have been difficult nor time-consuming for them to have given us a somewhat more robust GUI, but they didn't give a damn. The community had to fix that, and some of the solutions yielded a massive improvement despite being sickeningly simple (BTMod).

Many of the issues I listed are like this, very simple to fix. Widescreen, correct FOV, mouse acceleration, correct aspect ratios. A single programmer could fix all of that in 1 day no sweat.

It's just lack of caring I think, they're looked upon as "minor" things, yet they affect your gameplay for the entire game, Bioshock had awful mouse acceleration which genuinely decreased my experience with the game for the entire duration.

 

[Silus]

I don't mind developers making games console-centric, but what I do find issue with is developers simply taking what they develop primarily for consoles and porting that over to Windows without making any attempts to improve the experience. There's no practical reason why Bethesda couldn't have implemented a Morrowind-style GUI for the PC release of Oblivion (inarguably a superior GUI for PC users), but there was little to no effort expended in attempting to leverage the more precise, more elaborate control schemes available to PC users. It wouldn't have been difficult nor time-consuming for them to have given us a somewhat more robust GUI, but they didn't give a damn. The community had to fix that, and some of the solutions yielded a massive improvement despite being sickeningly simple (BTMod).

I think a key issue here is the fear of cannibalization. For whatever reason (most likely "piracy"), publishers/developers seem to want a greater number of console buyers as opposed to PC buyers, and few developers risk cannibalizing console sales by improving a title, in any way, for PC users. In Oblivion, you might recall that Bethesda had a mechanism designed not to allow us to run HDR and MSAA at the same time despite there being hardware available at the time that supported that (ATi's R5xx series). Despite complaints from the community, no effort was expended in resolving that simple issue of the launcher application not allowing both HDR and MSAA to be selected, which probably would have taken five minutes or less to fix. ATi was first to take the matter into their own hands with their Chuck fix, and NVIDIA followed by adding a game-specific profile in their drivers and offering instructions on how to bypass the lock that Bethesda placed on HDR+AA. What exactly was the reasoning behind that?

Consoles and PCs are different platforms, and developers need to understand this. PC gamers are a different audience with different expectations, and we have an extremely easy path to pirated software. We can be a lucrative market if developers and publishers simply make the right decisions with respect to cross-platform releases. Publishers just aren't investing in their PC ports these days, and that's a critical mistake. Rather than realizing that, and making changes to rectify that mistake, they run around blaming piracy -- and blaming us -- for lackluster PC sales.

Bethesda can shove Fallout 3 up their collective ass.

This pretty much sums up what I've been saying in this and countless other "PC and Console Ports" threads.

When a title is developed for a higher standard platform (PC) and then ported to a lower standard platform (Console), nothing is lost in the process and things can (or could) be adjusted to fit the needs of the lower standard platform.
But what we mostly get is the opposite. Titles are developed with the lower standard platform in mind and then directly ported to the higher standard one, with little to no change. This obviously hurts the quality of the PC Game and I prefer to avoid it, than to support crappy work.

I'm a developer myself (even if not in gaming), but I take pride in offering my customers the best possible experience with the software I develop. And each customer has different needs and wishes. This is the same in gaming. PC Gamers have different needs than console gamers and you either respect each and every single one, or you lose customers. I'm already one of those lost customers in some long term PC franchises and it seems I'll become a lost customer in others. I even go as far as being extremely mad at this trend, because most of these companies are where they are because we, PC Gamers, supported them for years and now we're getting the boot, with the usual "It's piracy!!!!" excuse.

 

[Nate_MachV]

You know what I'm really getting sick of. PC Elitists.

I grew up on a computer, and until last year gamed on it exclusively. Now, that I game on a console I'm starting to realize how many pricks reside in the PC gamer category. What the heck is wrong with playing a game on a freakin' console, where the hell do you get off telling people that something that they choose to play on isn't as good as your high and mighty PC. Seriously it's really starting to piss me off how many people are jumping on the consoles are for idiots band wagon.

You may call console games dumbed down, but it's only because you're sad that PC gaming is taking a back seat and getting the short end of the stick so much, because publishers and developers are realizing that they can't cater to your needs anymore because you have such a chip on your shoulder.

I played Fallout and Fallout 2 on PC. I'll be glad to play Fallout 3 on my PS3. Anyone that causes such a scene due to what platform a game is getting released on needs to grow up a bit... It's just a freaking game.

 

[Grimlaking]

Actually no. As a gamer who owns all three consoles and a nice gaming PC I can honestly say that for the serious mystery type games. The figure out what is going on scenarios. That the Console games are definitly dumbed down. Without question.