Fallout 3 - Catered towards console fans, Bethesda claims they are "console players"

Roufuss

Gawd
Joined
Apr 7, 2007
Messages
755
http://kotaku.com/387903/fallout-3-lead-were-console-players-now

I know after UT 3, a lot of people here are against games that were designed for the console being shoved onto the PC, but it looks like Bethesda is taking that lead. They even site Bioshock as an example they want to follow.

The article claims that they aren't worried about dumbing it down for the PC, but making it too complex for the consoles... that the staff that used to be PC players, are now console players, so it seems like they are shooting for that.

Makes me sad, not because of PC / console stuff, but because I don't think the game will live up to Fallout 1 / 2 at this point. I'm worried they will dumb down Fallout 3 too much =/

This is one game I was going to get for the PC, because I figured Bethesda if anyone would tailor it for the PC.. now I'm not too sure.
 
Too complex for consoles? Jeez, requiring someone to think a little should be required!
 
Too complex for consoles? Jeez, requiring someone to think a little should be required!

Haha, I'm not sure they can make it any less complex than Oblivion! Go here, stab this thing, return this item, go through this portal.

Maybe the game will shoot and travel for us now, and all we have to do is read dialogue ;)
 
As a now "former" fan of Bethesda, I'm sadden with these news...If this is true and the game is dumbed down and consolidified, it's another AAA PC title I'll be skipping...
 
As a now "former" fan of Bethesda, I'm sadden with these news...If this is true and the game is dumbed down and consolidified, it's another AAA PC title I'll be skipping...

It's true, it comes from the project lead on the Fallout 3 team so it's definitely true.

I feel like your PC gaming spirit is slowly being crushed after reading all of your posts :(
 
As a now "former" fan of Bethesda, I'm sadden with these news...If this is true and the game is dumbed down and consolidified, it's another AAA PC title I'll be skipping...

you didn't have a problem with Oblivion if I recall correctly. The complaint about Fallout 3 is this might be Oblivion with guns.

Although...I really don't know what was complicated from the original fallouts really. I mean the whole thing seems to be changed anyhow, and now they mention this and there is going to be a problem? I'm still looking forward to this. I'm not exactly sure what is dumbed down in Fallout.
 
Didn't they basically do this with Oblivion (dumb it down)?
 
Didn't they basically do this with Oblivion (dumb it down)?

I'm not going to pretend I've played/cared about elder scrolls before, but I've always understood that it's the interface that was dumbed down, which, really...who cares?

Maybe a happy middle ground is to leave teh game modible like Oblivion was.
 
I've always understood that it's the interface that was dumbed down, which, really...who cares?

When you're playing at 1600x1200 and you can only display 4 inventory items, some might see that as a problem.
 
I'm not going to pretend I've played/cared about elder scrolls before, but I've always understood that it's the interface that was dumbed down, which, really...who cares?

Maybe a happy middle ground is to leave teh game modible like Oblivion was.

Yeah the interface on PC was my only complaint on Oblivion. Nothing a few mods fixed though. As long as Bethesda makes this game very moddable like Oblivion was and still is, then im not really worried. Bring on the mods!!!
 
I'm not going to pretend I've played/cared about elder scrolls before, but I've always understood that it's the interface that was dumbed down, which, really...who cares?

Maybe a happy middle ground is to leave teh game modible like Oblivion was.

The interface was not the only feature (and yes, it was a big deal). Oblivion holds the player's hand throughout the whole game. Don't get me wrong, I love Oblivion but only because of mods.

Concerning mods: so us consumers should be the ones who make the PC version of the game enjoyable and not the developers? How about the developers stop treating console players like eight year olds and produce some games that provide challenge? I can understand the interface like what was displayed in Oblivion (even though it would have only taken them a very small amount of time to produce a PC vesion interface).
 
When you're playing at 1600x1200 and you can only display 4 inventory items, some might see that as a problem.

On the other side of the argument though I don't understand why PC gamers thing an interface has to be complicated *looks at The Witcher*
 
The interface was not the only feature (and yes, it was a big deal). Oblivion holds the player's hand throughout the whole game. Don't get me wrong, I love Oblivion but only because of mods.

The mods really take that game to another level.


Concerning mods: so us consumers should be the ones who make the PC version of the game enjoyable and not the developers? How about the developers stop treating console players like eight year olds and produce some games that provide challenge?

Isn't that the truth? Yes, there are plenty of kids out there that play consoles, especially if you spend anytime on Xbox Live you'll find out all about that, but the predominant demograph for gamers is folks much older than that anyways. 20 and 30 somethings. They're the ones with the money.

How many kids, past the occasional genius kids, do they really think are going to buy a game like Fallout 3 to begin with?

I don't have to be an advertising rep or marketing specialist to figure out "Probably not many."

There's no reason that a game has to be kiddie fodder just because it's on the Xbox 360 and/or PS3 or is being developed for those.

If it's on the Wii, that's a different story, although that could even be argued to a point.

At least that's honest. The Wii is being deliberately marked and catered towards a younger crowd than the 360 or the PS3.

In other words: I agree with you. It doesn't make sense. ;)


I can understand the interface like what was displayed in Oblivion (even though it would have only taken them a very small amount of time to produce a PC vesion interface).

This is where hope lies for PC gamers buying this game.

The mods for Fallout 3 will probably be out of this world, especially when you get a bunch of these old time, hardcore Fallout fanatics who take out whatever frustration or dissatisfaction they might have with the new game and put that towards their mods. :)
 
The interface was not the only feature (and yes, it was a big deal). Oblivion holds the player's hand throughout the whole game. Don't get me wrong, I love Oblivion but only because of mods.

Concerning mods: so us consumers should be the ones who make the PC version of the game enjoyable and not the developers? How about the developers stop treating console players like eight year olds and produce some games that provide challenge? I can understand the interface like what was displayed in Oblivion (even though it would have only taken them a very small amount of time to produce a PC vesion interface).

I've always thought of mods that fix the tiny quirks that obviously can't please everyone, or enhance the game even more towards YOUR likes and needs. What I like it a game obviously isn't going to match what you like and vice versa. Like for example I simply didn't like Oblivion at all. :D But I did buy it and played a lot. Just never stuck with me.

Holding your hand how? I thought after the first dungeon you pretty much didn't have any guidance. Do whatever you want to do approach.
 
Since I own and have played consoles for years in addition to being a PC gamer for the past 5 now...if anything there's a lot of console gamers out there that should be insulted when they read and hear things like when developers essentially admit "Yeah, we're going to dumb this down for the 'console folks.' "
 
Isn't that the truth? Yes, there are plenty of kids out there that play consoles, especially if you spend anytime on Xbox Live you'll find out all about that, but the predominant demograph for gamers is folks much older than that anyways. 20 and 30 somethings. They're the ones with the money.

There's no reason that a game has to be kiddie fodder just because it's on the Xbox 360 and/or PS3 or is being developed for those.
I'm not a kid. Why do you assume because it's made for a console or dumbed down it's kiddy? Most studies show adults rather have quicker simplier games. ;)

How many kids, past the occasional genius kids, do they really think are going to buy a game like Fallout 3 to begin with?
the ones that love oblivion.

This is where hope lies for PC gamers buying this game.

The mods for Fallout 3 will probably be out of this world, especially when you get a bunch of these old time, hardcore Fallout fanatics who take out whatever frustration or dissatisfaction they might have with the new game and put that towards their mods. :)
Maybe us hardcore Fallout fans with get a 3/4's view mod :D
 
On the other side of the argument though I don't understand why PC gamers thing an interface has to be complicated *looks at The Witcher*

The Witcher has an admitadly bad inventory system, especially with regards to reagents. It's something they're redesigning for the Enhanced Edition.

But going from Morrowind, where the screen were resizable and movable and you could open or close various windows at will to Oblivion where everything is fixed and you can only view on screen at a time was a bit of a shock.

Not that Morrowind's interface was a panacea, but it definately more powerful and customizable than Oblivion's.
 
WHAT THE FUCK!

Man.... they better not ruin Fallout for us, otherwise there gonna have a legion of pissed off fans.

oh yeah , screw all you console gamers.
 
I think we all knew in our hearts that they couldn't resist but knacker this one up.

Lets take a very in depth RPG which was full of adult material, dark humour, fantastic dialogue and great gamplay and twist that winning forumla into something that the 11 year old ADD kids can spaz out on for 10 minutes before getting bored and go back to "super duper smash bothers 13 million super excellent kwaii" edition.

Honestly getting mad at this point would be like admiting I didn't know this was going to happen, but it was just so obvious when they announced it was for the consoles.

I can honestly say with no hesitation that I will NEVER ever buy one of Bethesda games again if they don't treat the fallout intellectual property with the respect it deserves.
 
Bethesda wants to make a console-centric game? Well, that's a fuckin' shocker, ain't it?

I still intend to film a copy of Fallout 3 burning in a trash can (and I really want to make good on my intentions), but the only catch is that I'd have to buy a copy to do it. Shit.
 
Can anyone name a single aspect from fallout 1 or 2 that wouldn't work fine on a console? The interfaces (especially inventory) were dead simple and mostly crappy anyway. Character development wasn't overly complicated either and there was no aiming, so mouse controls are irrelevant.

I know its trendy to jump on this console hate bandwagon, but seriously, I challenge anyone who played the first two extensively to come up with a specific concern regarding this. I understand people's concerns in general on this topic but in this case it doesn't even apply. I'd be willing to bet most people complaining didn't even play the originals.
 
Can anyone name a single aspect from fallout 1 or 2 that wouldn't work fine on a console? The interfaces (especially inventory) were dead simple and mostly crappy anyway. Character development wasn't overly complicated either and there was no aiming, so mouse controls are irrelevant.

I know its trendy to jump on this console hate bandwagon, but seriously, I challenge anyone who played the first two extensively to come up with a specific concern regarding this. I understand people's concerns in general on this topic but in this case it doesn't even apply. I'd be willing to bet most people complaining didn't even play the originals.

  • Dumbed down graphics made to meet the lowest common demoninator
  • Dumbed down interface built for low resolution screens
  • Dumbed down interface designed to be navigated with analogue sticks
  • Over simplified gameplay and game mechanics to cater to console kiddies
  • Over simplified story which is suitable for average console gaming session of 20 minutes
  • Removal of adult themes to allow a console kiddy rating
  • Removal of gore/violence to allow a console kiddy rating
  • Mouse acceleration you can't turn off
  • Low FOV you can't turn up
  • Incorrectly implimented widescreen
  • Incorrect or missing correct PC screen aspect ratios
  • Poor frame rates usualy associated with games optimised to run well on consoles
  • Frequent loading that any half decent PC could avoid
  • Significantly lower difficulty
  • Bad AA and AF support, and generally dumbed down control over graphics
  • Stupid minigames to entertain the ADD console kiddies
  • Dumbed down HUD with fat low resolution icons and left over console HUD elements like "press A button to fire"

bored of this now, maybe someone would like carry on?
 
  • Dumbed down graphics made to meet the lowest common demoninator
  • Dumbed down interface built for low resolution screens
  • Dumbed down interface designed to be navigated with analogue sticks
  • Over simplified gameplay and game mechanics to cater to console kiddies
  • Over simplified story which is suitable for average console gaming session of 20 minutes
  • Removal of adult themes to allow a console kiddy rating
  • Removal of gore/violence to allow a console kiddy rating
  • Mouse acceleration you can't turn off
  • Low FOV you can't turn up
  • Incorrectly implimented widescreen
  • Incorrect or missing correct PC screen aspect ratios
  • Poor frame rates usualy associated with games optimised to run well on consoles
  • Frequent loading that any half decent PC could avoid
  • Significantly lower difficulty
  • Bad AA and AF support, and generally dumbed down control over graphics
  • Stupid minigames to entertain the ADD console kiddies
  • Dumbed down HUD with fat low resolution icons and left over console HUD elements like "press A button to fire"

bored of this now, maybe someone would like carry on?


I hope most of this is just general because a lot does not apply to Fallout 3. Especially since this game already has an MA rating attached to it. It's not targeted to "Console kiddies" :rolleyes:
 
I hope most of this is just general because a lot does not apply to Fallout 3.

How do you know that?

These are all common problems with even the VERY BEST console ports, or multiplatform developed games. Take a look at games like Oblivion and Bioshock and you'll see perfect examples of most of these issues.

The community even quieried the Bioshock developers on getting things like correct aspect ratios and properly implimented widescreen done right and then even confirmed specifically the details on what the community was worried about AND THEY STILL GOT IT WRONG

They claimed they were commited to making sure the PC version was tailored for the PC instead of being too newbed because of the consoles and it still was, clearly proving that even if developers aknowledge worries from gamers that bollocks all will actually be done by it.
 
Fallout 3 as a true PC game was a must buy.

Fallout 3 as a console port is a wait and see but be fully prepared for it to be an excruciating disappointment like Gears of Bore PC so just delete all my Fallout 3 bookmarks in Firefox so as not to be tempted to click on one in the vain, futile hope that Bethesda's Fallout 3 team was just fucking with us after an all-nighter of Red Bull, Funyuns and pot-smoking while questing through World of Warcraft.
 
  • Dumbed down graphics made to meet the lowest common demoninator
    I thought PC games pushing the limits too much is hurting the image (see Crysis)
  • Dumbed down interface built for low resolution screens
  • Dumbed down interface designed to be navigated with analogue sticks
  • Over simplified gameplay and game mechanics to cater to console kiddies
    News flash: Games are targeted to many audiences. But I guess all games on consoles are kiddie now. You're part of the game violence stigma problem aren't you?
  • Over simplified story which is suitable for average console gaming session of 20 minutes
    what the? And so many PC games are so rich in story?
  • Removal of adult themes to allow a console kiddy rating
    MA rating for Fallout
  • Removal of gore/violence to allow a console kiddy rating
    Fallout 3 very very bloody
  • Mouse acceleration you can't turn off
  • Low FOV you can't turn up
  • Incorrectly implimented widescreen
  • Incorrect or missing correct PC screen aspect ratios
    Only noticed by a small percentage of people. The same type of people who count pixels to identify resolutions on console games
  • Poor frame rates usualy associated with games optimised to run well on consoles
    Poor frame rates can easily affect any game
  • Frequent loading that any half decent PC could avoid
    Frequent loading?
  • Significantly lower difficulty
    Based off of.......
  • Bad AA and AF support, and generally dumbed down control over graphics
    PC versions have typically still looked better than console counterparts
  • Stupid minigames to entertain the ADD console kiddies
    You're grasping for anything now
  • Dumbed down HUD with fat low resolution icons and left over console HUD elements like "press A button to fire"

bored of this now, maybe someone would like carry on?

Highlighted in yellow
 
wow, missing the point guys.

When they say dumb it down for the console, they DONT mean that a retard can play it...
They DO mean, that you can control it with 8 buttons what ever other controls the console is limited to. They also mean a few other changes in game play, but generally they mean that in the IT IS DUMB ENOUGH TO MEET THE HARDWARE REQUIREMENTS. the consoles have dumber interfaces, so they will make it so the game controls reflect that.

as Netrat33 points out, this is not be confused as the text will be for kids under 9 and gore will be absent. It means a stupid console can handle it. thats said, i wonder about the video quality, the best a console can do is 1080....
 
Highlighted in yellow

responses in red

  • Dumbed down graphics made to meet the lowest common demoninator
    I thought PC games pushing the limits too much is hurting the image (see Crysis)
    I've never personally said that, Crysis didn't require an uber PC, only to run in max settins, it's perfectly acceptable to have high end settings in a game if it scales well for people with slow PC's
  • Dumbed down interface built for low resolution screens
  • Dumbed down interface designed to be navigated with analogue sticks
  • Over simplified gameplay and game mechanics to cater to console kiddies
    News flash: Games are targeted to many audiences. But I guess all games on consoles are kiddie now. You're part of the game violence stigma problem aren't you?
    Don't care about "games" in general, I care about Fallout3 remaining true to the design principles of the first 2, it always was target at adults as a very mature game, they've already admited they're removing kids from the game world, which in fallout 2 you could blow in half if you so chose to.
  • Over simplified story which is suitable for average console gaming session of 20 minutes
    what the? And so many PC games are so rich in story?
    Fallout 1 and 2, again don't care about "games" in general I care about this being true to it's roots
  • Removal of adult themes to allow a console kiddy rating
    MA rating for Fallout
    See above
  • Removal of gore/violence to allow a console kiddy rating
    Fallout 3 very very bloody
    Fallout3 toned down, see above
  • Mouse acceleration you can't turn off
  • Low FOV you can't turn up
  • Incorrectly implimented widescreen
  • Incorrect or missing correct PC screen aspect ratios
    Only noticed by a small percentage of people. The same type of people who count pixels to identify resolutions on console games
    Arument ad hominem, attack on person to belittle the importance of the actual subject in question, this is a genuine straying from accepted standards and shouldn't be tolerated by anyone, your casual aproach to this only encourages it.
  • Poor frame rates usualy associated with games optimised to run well on consoles
    Poor frame rates can easily affect any game
    Poor performance is commonly associated with ports or games developed in parrallel for more than 1 system due to optimisation being taylored towards 1 system, ususly the underdog (console)
  • Frequent loading that any half decent PC could avoid
    Frequent loading?
    Thief 3, GTA3, GTA VC, Assassins Creed, many cross developed games suffer from loading zones that need not exist on the PC version, limitations brought on by inferiour memory capacity of consoles
  • Significantly lower difficulty
    Based off of.......
    Based off the massively simplified gameplay mechanics present in the average console game
  • Bad AA and AF support, and generally dumbed down control over graphics
    PC versions have typically still looked better than console counterparts
    This is not a good argument for getting this stuff wrong, whether it looks better to start with or not
  • Stupid minigames to entertain the ADD console kiddies
    You're grasping for anything now
    See Bioshocks water puzzle hacking, haha
  • Dumbed down HUD with fat low resolution icons and left over console HUD elements like "press A button to fire"
 
Megalomaniac said:
wow, missing the point guys.

When they say dumb it down for the console, they DONT mean that a retard can play it...
They DO mean, that you can control it with 8 buttons what ever other controls the console is limited to. They also mean a few other changes in game play, but generally they mean that in the IT IS DUMB ENOUGH TO MEET THE HARDWARE REQUIREMENTS. the consoles have dumber interfaces, so they will make it so the game controls reflect that.

as Netrat33 points out, this is not be confused as the text will be for kids under 9 and gore will be absent. It means a stupid console can handle it. thats said, i wonder about the video quality, the best a console can do is 1080....

Exactly, it has mostly to do with the interface and input method. Graphics can scale (if done properly, obviously) and ratings are the same across platforms, but they won't build 2 completely different games so for the most part the gameplay will tailor towards the console control scheme because its more limited. My point is that nothing in the previous 2 games wouldn't work if done properly on a console. Frostex, you didn't give a single fallout specific mechanic you expect to be missing, and the rest are either related to "console kiddies" (a painfully unfounded and ironically childish argument) or sloppy coding, which is not inherent to their statements.
 
Jesus christ they better not fuck this up, as long as it has an awesome story, places to explore and awesome post apocalyptic sights to see and a fairly decent post apocalyptic atmosphere i will be happy
 
Well, one feature from Fallout that doesn't show up often in consoles is the save anywhere feature. Admittedly, this is not unique to Fallout, but is, in my opinion, essential for all PC games.
 
As long as the storyline is as good as the first two games I doubt I have a huge problem with the game. They better not fuck up the ambiance either, I think that is what really sets Fallout apart.
 
Exactly, it has mostly to do with the interface and input method. Graphics can scale (if done properly, obviously) and ratings are the same across platforms, but they won't build 2 completely different games so for the most part the gameplay will tailor towards the console control scheme because its more limited. My point is that nothing in the previous 2 games wouldn't work if done properly on a console. Frostex, you didn't give a single fallout specific mechanic you expect to be missing, and the rest are either related to "console kiddies" (a painfully unfounded and ironically childish argument) or sloppy coding, which is not inherent to their statements.

You have it the wrong way around, playing fallout 1/2 on the console maybe a good/bad experience was it ever playable on a console, but that isn't what is going to happen here so is largely irrelevant.

The point is it's being developed for 2 platforms at the same time and all the limitations of the console are going to be passed to the PC, this will alter the 3rd game from the originals in ways that are specific to the fallout franchinse but also no doubt entail other more generic issues that always crop up with such development.

I did give examples of changes to gameplay mechanics, you cannot kill children in the 3rd one, it's been removed to dumb down the adult theme and make it more acceptable in the mainstream.

Console kiddies refers to games being dumbed down so that children can play them, making gameplay simpler, making control systems simpler, or rather gimping abilities in game. Consoles have a typically young audience who have shorter attention spans, can't be subjected to adult content and lack the inteligence to comprehend deeper more in depth plots. And no rating means dick all, everyone knows kids parents buy them any game they want, developers know this as well as the rest of us.
 
"Catering to consoles"

Here's all I need from developers:

When you port the game, design the interface with recognition that PC users have a KEYBOARD and a MOUSE and most of us use WINDOWS to game.

Give me mouse focus, alt+key capability (a la Deus Ex), CTRL+PgUp/Down for tabs etc..

In menus always allow ESC to back you out one level (unlike Oblivion's halfassed ESC functionality.)

Give me good resolution support, including widescreen, and modifiable config files (bless you, Crysis.)

LET ME MAP EVERY COMMAND TO MY PREFERRED KEY.

You might also want to recognize that some of us are LEFT HANDED and will use the KEYPAD instead of WASD (thankfully, most recent games support this.)

Really, my biggest gripes are all interface. If the game sucks no interface will help it, but a good game can be ruined by a poor interface. I don't see how coding an interface with PC users in mind is all that difficult.
 
Back
Top