Falcon #1 who is #2?

R

Romulan

Weaksauce
Joined
Jan 1, 2006
Messages
86
Well I have been doing some research about buying a Fragbox and with the heated discussion about the recent review I found my way to this forum (thank God).

It seems there are a lot of people that know what they are talking about here so maybe you can help me.

I would like to buy a system for between 2000-3000, I love the Fragbox, but they have very limited payment options (only three visa, mastercard, discovery) I would like to either finance or pay with american express, so this is a major stumbling block for me.

I am not comfortable enough to build my own system yet otherwise I would. In the past I have bought dell's and currently have two one laptop 9100 and a desktop 8200. I wont ever buy a dell again...

So getting back to my question if I am unable to buy the Fragbox what other system should I go with that is either a desktop or a Fragbox type system?
 
Well no I am definately interested in the Fragbox and most likely would go with it if they offered more payment options but if not I am not just going to stick with small systems, I might end up just buying another desktop and wanted to know which I should go with that has a good rep...
 
Look at Reselleratings to get an idea of which system builders are reputable. I bought a system from Monarch Computer. Great support.
 
Resellerratings really isn't that good of a benchmark for these things anymore...
 
monarch's hornet is good. Or you can ask someone in the sff forums to build you a rig. I would do it :p
 
Izzeren said:
I would say Velocity Micro or Monarch Computers would be your next best 2 to choose from. Monarch also offers their own SFF types system as well called The Hornet, although I am not sure how well those are though.
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Agreed, [H] has reviewed 2 Velocity systems thus far and both got very high marks. Doesn't look like they offer SFF systems, but the price is definetely right; very budget-friendly (at least, for a pre-built "gaming" PC, most high-end pre-builts are pretty expensive).
 
Thanks for the info all.

After all I have read on the Fragbox I dont think I can go with anything else, although I have visited all those sites you all mentioned.
 
I built a fragbox. Really cool case, really bad cooling...I actually had the same problems that the reviewers had. Now it is okay though. I suggeast Monarch.
 
Hmm I wonder how a pre-made Hornet compares to the Fragbox. It seems all the reviews on the Hornet pro are old, the awards they have received are as old as 2004... I wonder if you put them side by side on benchmarks how would they perform. Obviously price the Hornet would win but im more interested in performance.
 
Romulan said:
Hmm I wonder how a pre-made Hornet compares to the Fragbox. It seems all the reviews on the Hornet pro are old, the awards they have received are as old as 2004... I wonder if you put them side by side on benchmarks how would they perform. Obviously price the Hornet would win but im more interested in performance.
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if they use the same chipset it should be the same. in fact if they use a nf4 or 6100 it will be faster
 
Could also look into a shuttle premade. Never tried one myself, but my barbones that I build is quite nifty. Escept the exhaust vent sounds like a hair dryer and can burn a hole in the wall :D

Hear good things about the newer ones though, but your mileage may vary. :cool:
 
Are you really interested in a SFF, or do you just want a good system?

Sure, the Fragbox is awesome, but there are a lot of full tower systems that are also pretty nice and worth a look. Just at Falcon, I'd take a peek at the Talon or even the Mach V line.

If you talk to Falcon, they might be able to work out some other kind of payment option. They're good folks over there. No promises, but if you want a Falcon, I'd explore every option with them if I were you.
 
what about voodoo pc? OEM's arent my specialty, but they do make decent computers in that price range right?
 
Romulan, I took the liberty of asking FNW how they could help you and they said that they would take an American Express check, which AMEX should provide you...
 
DNA Doc said:
Are you really interested in a SFF, or do you just want a good system?

Sure, the Fragbox is awesome, but there are a lot of full tower systems that are also pretty nice and worth a look. Just at Falcon, I'd take a peek at the Talon or even the Mach V line.

If you talk to Falcon, they might be able to work out some other kind of payment option. They're good folks over there. No promises, but if you want a Falcon, I'd explore every option with them if I were you.
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I do not take part in any LAN competitions, the reason I want a SFF is I am a firefighter and currently I bring my 9100 laptop with me but it just isnt cutting it with the type of games that I like to play( MMORPG's, Civ4, Football Manager 2006 Import). And if I buy a SFF I like the idea of being able to carry it with me to a hotel when we vacation, or to work.

The other question is: is it better to wait for the NEXT fragbox? or wait till prices go down? I know its a never ending cycle with that though.

Anyway thanks again all for your input.


P.S. Ya I checked out the Voodoo and I found their prices more expensive then Falcon, and between the two I would rather have Falcon. One computer I found very impressive is Puget, I configured it (a SFF) and used similar or better stuff then the fragbox has and it came out to similar prices. I just dont know how reliable they are when it comes to SFF, I dont know if it will overheat etc. At least with the Fragbox this site has done a review and I have had a chance to read a lot about them and know what to expect.
 
Romulan said:
I do not take part in any LAN competitions, the reason I want a SFF is I am a firefighter and currently I bring my 9100 laptop with me but it just isnt cutting it with the type of games that I like to play( MMORPG's, Civ4, Football Manager 2006 Import). And if I buy a SFF I like the idea of being able to carry it with me to a hotel when we vacation, or to work.

The other question is: is it better to wait for the NEXT fragbox? or wait till prices go down? I know its a never ending cycle with that though.

Anyway thanks again all for your input.


P.S. Ya I checked out the Voodoo and I found their prices more expensive then Falcon, and between the two I would rather have Falcon. One computer I found very impressive is Puget, I configured it (a SFF) and used similar or better stuff then the fragbox has and it came out to similar prices. I just dont know how reliable they are when it comes to SFF, I dont know if it will overheat etc. At least with the Fragbox this site has done a review and I have had a chance to read a lot about them and know what to expect.
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depends on the case and coolers. if they use the same it doesnt really matter, its not like the oem's manufacture the parts :p
 
c1001 said:
Any recommendations on what is?
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Couldn't really tell you. It's just now company's are using RR as a marketing tool...sending out requests for evaluations to customers that they know are satisfied...and with RR giving certain mediation 'benefits' to companies who will buy into their program, it's starting to become a business that may adversely effect their product - unbiased reports from consumers.

However, I would definitely READ the responses from customers, but don't put too much stock in the final numbers on RR...some of the stories are good and can definitely give you an insight as to how a certain company's customer service is.
 
bountyhunter said:
I'd go with MonarchPC. You're going to pay alot less and get a far better choice of hardware.
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Really? have you tried their SFF? I wonder how good it is, Ill go recheck their site.
 
just configured a 3800+ x2, cooler, 2GB ram, 200GB sata seagate hd, dl dvd burner, nforce 4 matx board, x1800xl, sound blaster xi fi for $1562. nb :D
 
arabdon1203 said:
just configured a 3800+ x2, cooler, 2GB ram, 200GB sata seagate hd, dl dvd burner, nforce 4 matx board, x1800xl, sound blaster xi fi for $1562. nb :D
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Can you link it? I wouldnt mind seeing it.
 
I dont think you can cause the settings dont carry over like that unless I can save it or something
 
Romulan,

If you're on-the-go, space is an issue, and you travel, then even a SFF doesn't sound like a good idea. You still need to tote around a display and your periphs. What it sounds like you need is a good laptop. Although SFF's are just that - small - they're still not that easy to transport. They're not that much lighter than desktops and cooling is a much bigger concern.

Just another option to look at, but I'd start considering a good gaming laptop given the situation you described. There's several threads floating around about different quality laptop builders.
 
Romulan said:
The other question is: is it better to wait for the NEXT fragbox? or wait till prices go down? I know its a never ending cycle with that though.

P.S. Ya I checked out the Voodoo and I found their prices more expensive then Falcon, and between the two I would rather have Falcon. One computer I found very impressive is Puget, I configured it (a SFF) and used similar or better stuff then the fragbox has and it came out to similar prices. I just dont know how reliable they are when it comes to SFF, I dont know if it will overheat etc. At least with the Fragbox this site has done a review and I have had a chance to read a lot about them and know what to expect.
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OKAY...when it comes to overheating, in general: 1. The bigger the box the better the cooling. 2. More and bigger fans help. 3. Aluminum cases are better than steel.

I gotta say that unless you really like and have made up your mind to buy a Fragbox2 and are just looking for positive feedback, you are really paying way too much money for what you can get from other system builders. You will be paying extra for the Falcon Northwest name, which may be a step up from the Dell mass market crowd, but will not add a single framerate of performance in a real game or in a synthetic benchmark. You could build a similar system for much less money and get much higher satisfaction with minimum effort and difficulty. If you want to buy a system from a company and get some peace of mind and support, then look around some more. Here is an example:

From Falcon:
Fragbox II with 500w PSU (ATX version not specified), window with neon lighting, MSI uATX mobo (probably a an MSI RS482M4 with PCI-E, SATA, Realtek Audio, LAN [100mbps] and onboard video which will be useless for your needs), AMD A64 3800+, Zalman CNPS7000LED CPU cooler, 2x1gb Corsair TwinX 2048 PC3200 memory, BFG 7800gtx video card, Seagate 80gb 7200rpm SATA HDD, Lite-on DVD/CD-RW combo drive, floppy drive, XP Home, 3 year parts and labor warranty with 9am-7pm tech support, throw in a bag. a logo and a t-shirt and you will be out $2837 (plus $87 for the cheapest shipping).

A similar spec system from Monarch:
Hornet Pro (bigger size then Fragbox) with 350w ATX PSU, Giabyte uATX mobo (with PCI-E, Realtek Audio, GB-LAN [1000mbps], SATA 3 [double the top speed of regular SATA], DDR, useless onboard video), AMD 64 3800+, Zalman CNPS 7000 CPU cooler, 2x1gb Corsair TwinX 2048-3200PT, eVGA 7800gtx, Seagate 80gb 7200 SATA HDD, Lite-on DVD/CD-RW combo drive, floppy drive, XP Home, 3 year warranty with on-site (your house) repair and 24 hour tech support, a t-shirt, bag, logo, plus free Half Life 2 and a Maximum PC subscription will set back $1856 (plus $50 for the cheapest shipping). Ask them to throw in a better but same size PSU (OCZ Modstream ATX 2.01 520w) and the total will be $1870 (minus whatever they deduct for the original PSU). You are still a thousand dollars richer than with the Fragbox II.

For the $2837 price of the Fragbox II, you could have Monarch add a more expensive Asus mobo, a ridiculously expensive AMD FX-57 CPU that would knock the 3800+ on its ass, lower latency 2x1gb Corsair TwinX 2048-3200C2 memory, a 74gb 10,000 rpm Raptor HDD, an overclocked BFG 7800gtx OC video card, and a 7-1 floppy/ media card reader (total = $2833).

For Falcon to try to get close to these specs would run you $4200.

So if you think a Fragbox II is the shizzle, get it and enjoy it. Otherwise, look around and save your money. You'll want that upgrade for the next greatest thing that comes out 2 months after you've bought your system!
 
Remember, there's a helluva lot more to buying a system from Falcon than the hardware. There's overnight RMA serviced and unparalleled tech support.
 
Chris_Morley said:
Remember, there's a helluva lot more to buying a system from Falcon than the hardware. There's overnight RMA serviced and unparalleled tech support.
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I don't know, sounds like someone is looking for a Falcon kickback! ;)
In all seriousness, I haven't dealt with Falcon NW tech support, so I can't comment on their responsiveness or expertise. What throws up a yellow flag for me is a total of 2 Reseller Ratings reviews for Falcon in the past six months (28 lifetime total!) versus 396 (2530 total) for Monarch, versus 41 (270 total) for an upstart like Puget. The quality of the ratings over time speaks volumes for customer satisfaction and support. I know you don't believe these ratings to be an accurate snapshot, but I still haven't heard of a better alternative.
 
c1001 said:
I don't know, sounds like someone is looking for a Falcon kickback! ;)
In all seriousness, I haven't dealt with Falcon NW tech support, so I can't comment on their responsiveness or expertise. What throws up a yellow flag for me is a total of 2 Reseller Ratings reviews for Falcon in the past six months (28 lifetime total!) versus 396 (2530 total) for Monarch, versus 41 (270 total) for an upstart like Puget. The quality of the ratings over time speaks volumes for customer satisfaction and support. I know you don't believe these ratings to be an accurate snapshot, but I still haven't heard of a better alternative.
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Falcon has been in business for over a decade and they sell a sizeable amount of systems each month. They do not actively promote reseller ratings nor ask their customers to go there and write a review. Many websites do this with each purchase. Also, Monarch is a very popular place to purchase parts, not just systems.

I get paid by [H]ard|OCP, and accept no monies nor compensations from any company that I evaluate.

I do not hide both my personal nor professional respect for Falcon Northwest, or other system builders we have evaluated in the past. But I'm also fair, as you can see in our articles. ;)

I don't have any first hand knowledge of Monarch products as a customer, but I have spent a considerable amount of time with some of the Monarch guys and I think they're stand up guys too.

For the record I'm also a HUGE fan of PC Club, but their products don't fit the subject at hand, which is why I haven't mentioned them here. :)
 
Chris_Morley said:
Falcon has been in business for over a decade and they sell a sizeable amount of systems each month. They do not actively promote reseller ratings nor ask their customers to go there and write a review. Many websites do this with each purchase. Also, Monarch is a very popular place to purchase parts, not just systems.

I get paid by [H]ard|OCP, and accept no monies nor compensations from any company that I evaluate.

I do not hide both my personal nor professional respect for Falcon Northwest, or other system builders we have evaluated in the past. But I'm also fair, as you can see in our articles. ;)
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And you work very late, so that adds kudos to the quality of your opinion. No smearing of your rep intended! I think this thread is deviating from its creator's purpose.
 
c1001 said:
And you work very late, so that adds kudos to the quality of your opinion. No smearing of your rep intended! I think this thread is deviating from its creator's purpose.
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I know dude, I just wanted to put that out there because there ARE people who would say that seriously, not joking like you did. ;)

But it's always good to bring up the price differences in the systems we evaluate. It's a very subjective thing, value is, and will differ from one person to the next.

That's why companies like PC Club and Falcon Northwest, even though they both sell PCs, aren't even competitors - they service two difference markets completely. So we give PC Club leeway when it comes to component selection (in terms of things like plastic cases, etc., no leeway in shortcuts in quality) because they are inexpensive, while we cut companies like FNW slack in the price department because of the extra care and value add services they provide.

It's all a matter of perspective I guess. :)
 
Wow a lot of information, thank you again.


The big reason I signed up with this site was the review that was done on Fragbox and other computers. It actually increased my appreciation for Fragbox. I like the Monarch configuration that I made and also I love the Pegot configuration that I made and they are both a lot better price wise from the fragbox. So why would I still even consider the Fragbox?

Well maybe my thinking is flawed but, I thought that Fragbox overcharges the system for you so when you get it its pretty much ready to go and you dont have to tamper with any overcharging.
As far as the Monarch I have done a lot of research lately on them and although I am very impressed with what I can get for the money I am willing to pay one thing scares me. G4 the tv show did a review on a monarch, a vodoo and a Fragbox and the one they gave the lowest ratings to was the Monarch due to it overheating and not even being able to complete some of the testing (I got this video from the Fragbox site). Now I watch this guys on tv and they seem pretty unbiased. One thing to note though was the monarch at the time was using the 270w power supply not the 350 that they offer now.
As far as Puget they seem really impressive but just like you guys said about resellerratings they must really push this considering they have a huge banner to tell people to go and check that out and its at 9.91 which is unbelievable.

I really have not made up my mind and in fact I probably should just go with a normal tower and avoid all this overheating issues and overcharing prices but I am just sick of doing the stupid thing and purchasing Dell's without doing the research of smaller companies first so when I saw the chance to visit an active board I took it and its a good thing because now I know a lot more then I did.


P.S. I want this tower or SFF to last me for the next 3 to 4 years so I am willing to pay up to 3k for it, I dont want to pay half that and be unhappy and be back looking for another system to build or buy in a year, like I did after buying my Dell.
 
I haven't purchased a ready-made computer in over 7 years, I always build my own, although it does help to get something that's been thoroughly tested with all compatible parts pre-installed. Can save hours/days/week/months of trouble-shooting compared to when you build yourself and run into unknown problems. I still prefer to begin with a good case, like my CoolerMaster/WaveMaster, then buy a quality PSU and build up from there. It's a personal choice but I learn more from the hands-on approach to system building and get more satisfaction from knowing it was my hands that put everything together. I really love some of the custom paint jobs that Falcon Northwest put on some of the Wavemaster cases a couple of years back, especially one that used $2,100 a pint "chameleon" paint that turned colors depending on how the light hit it (purples, greens, blues, golds,...). I can always get a custom motorcycle or car paint shop to spray any case I want to build in, so that's not an issue either. Guess it all comes down to how much of a technician you are and how much you're willing to spend.

If I was to buy another ready-made computer, it would most likely be a high-end gamers' Laptop and not a Desktop computer, something with an AMD FX processor possibly, a good high-end gaming GPU plus at least 2x512 DDR400 low-latency memory. With Laptops giving the high-end results they're capable of these days, with the right components, there's no way I'd spend nearly $3,000 on any Desktop PC, no matter who makes it. Just my opinion, for whatever it's worth.
 
GatorFX said:
I haven't purchased a ready-made computer in over 7 years, I always build my own, although it does help to get something that's been thoroughly tested with all compatible parts pre-installed. Can save hours/days/week/months of trouble-shooting compared to when you build yourself and run into unknown problems. I still prefer to begin with a good case, like my CoolerMaster/WaveMaster, then buy a quality PSU and build up from there. It's a personal choice but I learn more from the hands-on approach to system building and get more satisfaction from knowing it was my hands that put everything together. I really love some of the custom paint jobs that Falcon Northwest put on some of the Wavemaster cases a couple of years back, especially one that used $2,100 a pint "chameleon" paint that turned colors depending on how the light hit it (purples, greens, blues, golds,...). I can always get a custom motorcycle or car paint shop to spray any case I want to build in, so that's not an issue either. Guess it all comes down to how much of a technician you are and how much you're willing to spend.

If I was to buy another ready-made computer, it would most likely be a high-end gamers' Laptop and not a Desktop computer, something with an AMD FX processor possibly, a good high-end gaming GPU plus at least 2x512 DDR400 low-latency memory. With Laptops giving the high-end results they're capable of these days, with the right components, there's no way I'd spend nearly $3,000 on any Desktop PC, no matter who makes it. Just my opinion, for whatever it's worth.
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The thing about this subforum is that it's a place people can post in with questions about OEM PC's with the constant deluge of "build your own, it's cheaper", so I appreciate your comments, but let's stick to the OP's questions...
 
Hence my final words of "If I was to buy another ready-made computer, it would most likely be a high-end gamers' Laptop and not a Desktop computer, something with an AMD FX processor possibly, a good high-end gaming GPU plus at least 2x512 DDR400 low-latency memory. With Laptops giving the high-end results they're capable of these days, with the right components, there's no way I'd spend nearly $3,000 on any Desktop PC, no matter who makes it. Just my opinion, for whatever it's worth.". Not off-topic at all, plus Falcon Northwest has some beautiful paint jobs on their cases, which is something else I had mentioned, another thing that was right on topic. I also made it clear that buying pre-made has major benefits to building your own, so what's your problem here? I was right on the money, just happened to mention I don't buy ready-made myself these days but added that if I did.... What part of "it does help to get something that's been thoroughly tested with all compatible parts pre-installed." did you not understand? I'd still go with a high-end Laptop instead of a Desktop PC and that was my final answer. No offense but I was clearly sticking to the original topic, despite my brief comments about personal builds. Thanks for you feedback but it wasn't necessary, despite your forum standing. I am not a child nor am I ignorant to what's being talked about. I have over 20 years in the computer industry under my belt and was merely giving my personal observations and experience, with both roads to travel. Please don't treat me like a child and say I'm off -topic, especially when if you'd completely read my reply you'd have seen this was not the case at all.

Happy New Year to you too. No worries.
 
GatorFX said:
Hence my final words of "If I was to buy another ready-made computer, it would most likely be a high-end gamers' Laptop and not a Desktop computer, something with an AMD FX processor possibly, a good high-end gaming GPU plus at least 2x512 DDR400 low-latency memory. With Laptops giving the high-end results they're capable of these days, with the right components, there's no way I'd spend nearly $3,000 on any Desktop PC, no matter who makes it. Just my opinion, for whatever it's worth.". Not off-topic at all, plus Falcon Northwest has some beautiful paint jobs on their cases, which is something else I had mentioned, another thing that was right on topic. I also made it clear that buying pre-made has major benefits to building your own, so what's your problem here? I was right on the money, just happened to mention I don't buy ready-made myself these days but added that if I did.... What part of "it does help to get something that's been thoroughly tested with all compatible parts pre-installed." did you not understand? I'd still go with a high-end Laptop instead of a Desktop PC and that was my final answer. No offense but I was clearly sticking to the original topic, despite my brief comments about personal builds. Thanks for you feedback but it wasn't necessary, despite your forum standing. I am not a child nor am I ignorant to what's being talked about. I have over 20 years in the computer industry under my belt and was merely giving my personal observations and experience, with both roads to travel. Please don't treat me like a child and say I'm off -topic, especially when if you'd completely read my reply you'd have seen this was not the case at all.

Happy New Year to you too. No worries.
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I normally delete off topic posts or those that merely say 'build your own'. I did not delete yours, nor did I treat you like a child. You have no reason to get indignant. Lately we have been, and have since the inception of this subforum, getting lots of people misusing this subforum and not following the guidelines set out. I was merely trying to keep this discussion from turning into a build your own vs. prebuilt argument - it wasn't so much in regards to your post, but a pre-emptive measure against those who would take this thread off-topic.
 
Thank you, Chris, for the explaination. I understand now why you'd felt the way you did but be assured I was not in any way trying to abuse the forum. I'm 47 years old, I've worked for Fairchild Space on the U.S. Space Shuttle, I've worked for Honeywell and RCA in the military computer industry, I've worked in clean rooms making micro-processors and I was not becoming indignant by your response, just put off a bit by it. FYI, the word "indignant" is defined as "feeling or expressing anger or scorn", which was far from what I was implying. Saying you'd treated me like a child was in referrence to your comments that expressed I was behaving inappropriately by the reply I had posted, i.e., of, like, or characteristic of a child. Please feel free to delete all of this if you wish. It would have been far more appropriate had you contacted me by PM or EM, instead of in this thread anyway, don't you agree? This really was completely un-necessary and a waste of valuable time. Please, go ahead and delete my posts on this topic and let's start over fresh. Also, please remember me and remember that I am not one of those "childish" or immature people that has nothing better to do than to abuse such a great foum. I may be a new member but I'm in no way a "noobie" (I hate that term, we shouldn't be labled according to our post counts or time as a member. That's just wrong and you've proven that.). It may very well be that I have far more education and experience than you or many others here have, in the area of computer hardware, research and design, so let's not group all those stuck with the unwanted label of "newbie" into such a small and uncaring, uneducated group. I apologize if you'd believed me to be one of those "newbies" only looking to disrupt and cause trouble. I feel you know better than that now and I truly desire that the next we meet, you'll know me better than that. I will not be offended should you delete all my posts now, under this topic. Just please write me directly before passing judgement on me int the future. I can take constructive criticism and I wecome it, any time. Let's try this again, shall we? Thanks and sorry for getting irritated. I was never actually angry and I hope you understand that now. See you next time and take care. I know there's been some real jerks on this Site and I feel for your position and trying to put a stop to it. If I can help, let me know. It would be a pleasure!
 
Gator, thanks for taking the time to type up a response. I have also sent you a PM with more info.
 
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