Factory Replaces 90% of Human Workers with Robots, Production Rises by 250%

[mesyn191]

Just watch....as people keep demanding $15/hr for the most basic jobs, they're going to be replaced by robots and then completely out of a job.

You think these workers in China who just got replaced by machines made $15/hr? Or anywhere near that?

Yeah wages in China have been rising but they're still generally quite a bit below what they are in the US. Average is only around $5K a year.

The reality is the cost of automation keeps going down yearly. And if places like China have wages that are too high to compete against automation now then pretty much all low skill/repetitive task workers are screwed virtually no matter their wage.

 

[mesyn191]

I see all kinds of problems with robots. There is gonna be a revolution and robots will be full of holes!

Already happened once before. Google the Luddites.

The reality is the machines aren't gonna get smashed up. The factory and equipment owners will just call the cops, or if things get bad enough, the military in and people will be the ones filled full of holes. Then the factory/equip. owners will use their insurance policies to get all the damaged stuff paid for and replaced and things will go on as before.

 

[mesyn191]

How can we erect trade barriers to bring menial jobs back if manufacturers keep manufacturing machines to manufacture other things?

You can't. Not effectively anyways.

Trade barriers of any sort tend to be counterproductive anyways. More so today then in the past since everyone's economy is so interconnected now.

 

[mesyn191]

if everyone gets a universal wage for doing nothing by taxing factories, then the factory owners will be spending more than if they had human workers.

Any UBI or Mincome would likely pay out the minimum to get by as measured as an average across either a state or the country. So the amount would actually be fairly low vs many people's current wages. In order to buy nice things or live a decent life people would still have to work to some degree. The amount they'd HAVE to work to do so however would be drastically reduced from what it is today so long as wages were set properly. Think something like 16-24hr work weeks so long as they got paid $12-20/hr.

It's that people don't do well on vacations

LOL are you kidding me?! People do fine on vacations so long as they have stuff to do or buy or look at. All of that costs money though. Guess what most people don't have a lot of now and will certainly have less of in the near future? Money.

Give them 80 years of vacations and only the 10% of people who can find pleasure in study and/or art will not be jumping from rooftops.

Complete BS. Plenty of people would be perfectly happy playing video games all day. Or just being able to travel. Or raise their kids and be with their wife instead of being at a desk all damn day all the time. They don't need to be doing $$$$insert profit generating task here$$$$ to be happy. Making money for other people, especially those who are already rich, never made anyone happy as far as I can tell. Its doing the stuff they want to do that does.

 

[Ducman69]

The future is highly skilled workers always staying one step ahead of robotics.

You realize that a lot of "skilled" jobs are being automated now as well.

Evolution for organics operates at a snails pace, so your hardware is fixed. We already have amassed so much information, that it takes nearly two decades of training the average person to understand the basic fundamentals of it all, and then another ten to twenty years specializing in a specific task before one is an expert in the field. Then the body and skillset decays and becomes inflexible to learning new skills, and dies, and you have to start off from scratch again training someone for twenty years just to grasp those fundamentals again.

Robots and AI don't have this problem, and so can and will surpass human capabilities, potentially leaving virtually everyone out of work.

Meanwhile, the human population is also increasing exponentially, which means more and more people being pooped out trying to compete for the tasks that can't be automated yet. If you created a utopia where production was distributed equally among all people, all those babies lose incentive to even bother striving to learn and better themselves, dumbing down future generations, and bringing our evolution as a species to a dead end... to be replaced by AI robots.

 

[jevans64]

Meanwhile, the human population is also increasing exponentially, which means more and more people being pooped out trying to compete for the tasks that can't be automated yet. If you created a utopia where production was distributed equally among all people, all those babies lose incentive to even bother striving to learn and better themselves, dumbing down future generations, and bringing our evolution as a species to a dead end... to be replaced by AI robots.

Already happening. The human race sure is pooping out a lot of stupid people. Too stupid to do good in school and get a real job. They are stuck in McDonald's making $8 an hour but demand to be paid $15 an hour to press a few buttons, put fries in a box, and slap together a burger. The job might be worth $11 if they didn't screw up my order half the time. Two items go into a bag and they forget the fries.

I'm just waiting for the day when humans screw with the atmosphere and end up blocking out the sunlight. Robots end up taking over but don't know what to do with the useless humans... until they realize that humans generate a small amount of electricity that can be used like a battery. They put us in an imaginary computer-generated world so we won't realize we are just CopperTops.

 

[mesyn191]

Too stupid to do good in school and get a real job.

Complete nonsense.

You don't know what you're talking about at all.

There are more college grads than ever. There is a glut of them and has been for years. Yes even in STEM degrees there is a glut of graduates and has been for years too. Its not a small glut either in STEM degree holders either. They're seeing a near double digit drop in income in just 1 year!

They are stuck in McDonald's making $8 an hour but demand to be paid $15 an hour...

They're not doing it to be dicks or because they're greedy. Back when fast food jobs really were starter jobs (and $8/hr was worth more!) that you'd work for a year or 2 in high school or while at college to pay for stuff the low pay made sense. Now its a different story. Its nearly impossible to step from that sort of crap job into something better because the nearly all the job growth has been low pay service jobs for the better part of a decade now. For many there is nothing better to step up to, even with a degree!!

On top of that what (little) wage growth we have seen doesn't come anywhere near close to adjusting for ~40yr of wage cuts by the employers by not raising wages in line with inflation every year. These are the facts of the current economy so you're completely out of touch with reality if you think otherwise at this point. The economy can and will change over time and your past experiences aren't worth much anymore either BTW.

 

[Deleted member 204526]

Well that's the scary thing, we don't know how it will "shake out", but right now, signs point to a small number of people controlling the supply (ie. The automated work force) and the capital. Unless we take steps to socialize the fruits of production, the gulf between the haves and have nots is going to be staggering. The even greater problem is how and when we move to a UBI (universal basic income) without destroying the remnants of the current system. I don't think it's a question of if, only when we have to move to a socialist model. The left seems to think I the time is now, and to some extent they're right, but I personally think we're a ways off from that. I'm afraid we're in for some serious societal upheaval in the near future as we transition to an automated workforce. Gonna be...Interesting.

Well I'm basically an anarcho-capitalist and as such I have no love for socialism. I believe the human population should always remain at a natural equilibrium with itself. A large human population isn't an intrinsically good thing. Our numbers should be allowed to fall back to a level reflective each individual's ability to sustain his or herself within the system, even if that means our numbers going from billions to a million or less.

The fallback in numbers should be achieved in an orderly and humane way. Not genocide or mass starvation, but birth control. Perhaps UBI could be used as a stopgap solution while that happens. Receiving UBI should be contingent upon the recipients not having children. If you have children, you forfeit your government provided income and assistance and the children removed from your care (or inability to care as the case may be).

Even the above plan disgusts me, but it disgusts me less than paying billions of useless humans in perpetuity for simply existing.

 

[sirgallium]

Just watch....as people keep demanding $15/hr for the most basic jobs, they're going to be replaced by robots and then completely out of a job. No reason why a robot at McDonalds can't be flipping a burger instead of a 16 year old at $15/hr.

If you were poor you probably would want $15 an hour too. It's hard to pay rent on less. Why so hostile?

 

[bugleyman]

I'm just waiting for the day when humans screw with the atmosphere and end up blocking out the sunlight. Robots end up taking over but don't know what to do with the useless humans... until they realize that humans generate a small amount of electricity that can be used like a battery. They put us in an imaginary computer-generated world so we won't realize we are just CopperTops.

I realize you were kidding -- and I like the Matrix as much as the next guy -- but please tell me that you understand conservation of energy?

 

[bugleyman]

If you were poor you probably would want $15 an hour too. It's hard to pay rent on less. Why so hostile?

Because he has been trained to direct his outrage toward the easiest targets?

Seriously...this is going to eat us from the bottom up, folks. Unless you're part of the 1%, your time *will* come.

 

[bugleyman]

Half of humanity lies on the left side of intelligence bell curve. They simply do not have the mental horsepower to be productive citizens in the future we are facing. Eventually, no one will, no matter what IQ they're packing. I'm not even going to try and predict how this will all shake out.

This.

 

[Twisted Kidney]

I realize you were kidding -- and I like the Matrix as much as the next guy -- but please tell me that you understand conservation of energy?

Poo on your "physics".

We'll make great pets.

 

[Syntax_Error]

 

[bugleyman]

Poo on your "physics".

We'll make great pets.

I had better get one of those cute sweaters.

 

[jevans64]

If you were poor you probably would want $15 an hour too. It's hard to pay rent on less. Why so hostile?

The problem with minimum wage is that it is a minimum wage. Cities that have raised their minimum up to $15 are feeling the effects of those increased wages. Things might seem fine for a little while for that person making $9 to go to $15 but then the prices of goods and services get a big increase within a year to cover that higher wage paid out and they are right back into not making ends meet... $15 is the new $8. What happens to the folks currently making $15 to $20? I doubt they will see a raise and will get squeezed by the higher prices. It might get some folks off the entitlements they receive when making $8. Unfortunately, I know a few folks that prefer to stay at $8 or $9 because they qualify for SNAP and other programs, which is more than they would receive from the wage increase minus taxes.

 

[jevans64]

Because he has been trained to direct his outrage toward the easiest targets?

Seriously...this is going to eat us from the bottom up, folks. Unless you're part of the 1%, your time *will* come.

Soylent Green... Yum!!

 

[HoffY]

There are more college grads than ever.

Its cute that you think quantity = quality.

Gender Studies graduates do not a good employee make. Mind you, the MSM seem to love them in my country as well! bloody political correctness cancer is everywhere!

 

[sirgallium]

The problem with minimum wage is that it is a minimum wage. Cities that have raised their minimum up to $15 are feeling the effects of those increased wages. Things might seem fine for a little while for that person making $9 to go to $15 but then the prices of goods and services get a big increase within a year to cover that higher wage paid out and they are right back into not making ends meet... $15 is the new $8. What happens to the folks currently making $15 to $20? I doubt they will see a raise and will get squeezed by the higher prices. It might get some folks off the entitlements they receive when making $8. Unfortunately, I know a few folks that prefer to stay at $8 or $9 because they qualify for SNAP and other programs, which is more than they would receive from the wage increase minus taxes.

So what is the solution then? Or what would be helpful steps to work toward to address poverty without paying people more?

 

[cyberguyz]

The problem with replacing people with robots is this:

Who will be left to buy the stuff you made with those robots if nobody is working and making money? In this example alone are now 590 people that cannot afford to buy smart phones.

Just an example of business pushing hard to reduce costs at the expense if providing employment.

 

[bugleyman]

The problem with minimum wage is that it is a minimum wage. Cities that have raised their minimum up to $15 are feeling the effects of those increased wages. Things might seem fine for a little while for that person making $9 to go to $15 but then the prices of goods and services get a big increase within a year to cover that higher wage paid out and they are right back into not making ends meet... $15 is the new $8. What happens to the folks currently making $15 to $20? I doubt they will see a raise and will get squeezed by the higher prices. It might get some folks off the entitlements they receive when making $8. Unfortunately, I know a few folks that prefer to stay at $8 or $9 because they qualify for SNAP and other programs, which is more than they would receive from the wage increase minus taxes.

Except that the prices for most goods/services won't increase anything close to proportionally, meaning the people at the bottom are still better off. Though you're correct that the rest of us take a hit. Raising the minimum wage isn't perfect, but absent the actual change we should be making -- ending crony capitalism and all the accompanying corruption -- it might be the best option we can actually hope to enact.

 

[Malcador]

I dunno, something tells me that this robot revolution will not be as grim as some say, society will re-adjust and jobs will crop up in other sectors. Someone has to now make the machines, right? Or support them, design them etc., sh** ALWAYS breaks. Think back to the dude who lit lamp posts back in the 16/17 century or so...I mean I know it's a more massive scale, but still. I believe the human element will always be necessary, if even for the consumption aspect many mention. Or people will just revolt.

 

[cyberguyz]

I dunno, something tells me that this robot revolution will not be as grim as some say, society will re-adjust and jobs will crop up in other sectors. Someone has to now make the machines, right? Or support them, design them etc., sh** ALWAYS breaks. Think back to the dude who lit lamp posts back in the 16/17 century or so...I mean I know it's a more massive scale, but still. I believe the human element will always be necessary, if even for the consumption aspect many mention. Or people will just revolt.

The problem there is the education level of the person needing to do the job. Factory laborers do not require college/uni degrees. But to design, maintain and supervise robots? I would expect so. How about these economics:

50 robots replace 500 unskilled workers. but need 5 skilled workers to maintain. Company makes money hand over fist because they are selling their goods for the same price.
When you are dealing with a country that has over one billion population, the old argument "well those 500 should get degrees" won't cut it. You still have 500 unskilled unemployed workers that now can't afford food/housing for their families much less a college tuition. Even a government like China's can't afford to keep them fed/housed with social assistance. How do you solve it?

 

[big_aug]

The worst part is we have people in the US who think manufacturing jobs are coming back. When things like this are happening in China where wages are already extremely low, there is no way the US can bring back manufacturing jobs. We have heard people spouting this nonsense for far to long.

There are simply too many people and not enough jobs. It can't possibly be sustainable. More and more things will become automated. It wouldn't be as bad if our leaders acknowledged the issues and steered us in a direction to address those issues. I believe I recall our former President stressing how automation is where are jobs are being lost. I might be wrong on that but I thought it was a topic in some speeches. I can't see our current administration even acknowledging that it poses a serious problem for the future. It's scary to think about where we'll be in 20 years, especially if we keep scapegoating China and illegals for taking our jobs.

 

[mullet]

I wonder who will scream Robophobia first.

 

[hardboner]

how many people does one robot replace for this 250% increase in production?
how much does a robot cost? when do they break even?

These OEMs don't have have a huge profit margin, especially in this example of some no-name company making phones.

 

[CSI_PC]

Good time for older kids to learn in detail about a future as a Robotics Engineer.
Or even more lucrative a civil servant or politician
Cheers

 

[Ducman69]

how many people does one robot replace for this 250% increase in production?
how much does a robot cost? when do they break even?

These OEMs don't have have a huge profit margin, especially in this example of some no-name company making phones.

You say they don't have a huge profit margin, but look at how much money Chinese execs and CEOs are making for these factories. Many aren't millionaires but billionaires. You have to remember that if you make a billion of something at only $1 profit each, that's a billion dollars funneled to just a handful of people every year. There's a Jhuo lady they were talking about recently that makes mobile phone glass in her factory, and is worth twice as much as Donald Trump for example.

Course the sad part of that is before this mechanization, there were still so many billionaire Chinese owners, while the Chinese workers making the products were locked in factories six out of seven days a week and barely making enough to pay for simple ramen noodle dishes. Robots will make it just that much easier for a handful of people to own all the means of production, and there's no obligation to distribute their army of machines resources to other people.

 

[blade12]

The most important and expensive commodity is time. Time is worth more than anything in life because once we lose it, we can never get it back. Robots taking and doing these basic menial tasks allow us humans to focus on more advanced tasks, such as advancing civilization through more time investment and innovation in STEM. Why don't we do this more?

We focus so much on keeping these useless menial job that do nothing to advance civilization. Let's let robots do that while we put more money towards educating people towards more long-lasting and inspiring tasks/jobs to advance civilization and humanity.

 

[Hsensei]

Current political trends are moving US workers to become the next low wage, unskilled work force. Anti-intellectualism in addition to pitting the middle class against low income population. Look at H1-B visa, they are giving them a raise plus regular inflation increases. It positions the American workforce as low skill low cost vs the rest of the world. The perception in the United States has always been you get what you pay for and the current trends point to us as being the next cheap labor pool.

 

[CSI_PC]

Not just time but also failure rates of products manufacturered, this also is a big plus from a business perspective but sucks for human workforce.

Boston Dynamics still pushing forward I see.
I love the video at 1min 12sec with the dog segment there and the can with the human
Seems more typical of a real life situation and pet lol.

Cheers

 

[Stiletto]

Complain about low wages and watch what happens.

 

[mesyn191]

Because he has been trained to direct his outrage toward the easiest targets?

Seriously...this is going to eat us from the bottom up, folks. Unless you're part of the 1%, your time *will* come.

Yuuuuuuuup.

Its amazing how well Right Wing Media has been at both getting people to vote against their interests and at engendering a "crab mentality". I keep hoping they'll snap out of it but many of the people who think the way he does have Fox on 24/7 or look at crap like Breitbart 24/7. Its difficult for high quality information to penetrate that sort of self imposed info bubble.

 

[mesyn191]

Cities that have raised their minimum up to $15 are feeling the effects of those increased wages.

The effect is they're doing just fine though. You can always find crap tier articles that have some random small business guy complaining about it but the overall effect has been largely positive.

Things might seem fine for a little while for that person making $9 to go to $15 but then the prices of goods and services get a big increase within a year to cover that higher wage paid out and they are right back into not making ends meet... $15 is the new $8.

It literally is thanks to inflation actually. Wages are SUPPOSED to go up every year, if your employer isn't doing that then they're giving you wage cut and pocketing that money!! And guess what? Employers have been doing that for decades. Decades of small yearly wage cuts really start to add up and a min. wage of $15/hr isn't so much a raise as setting the clock back inflation-wise for many.

What happens to the folks currently making $15 to $20? I doubt they will see a raise and will get squeezed by the higher prices.

They'll see a raise eventually but yeah it won't be over night. It'll take years for it to happen and frequently you have to switch jobs anyways to get a pay raise these days. Of course it also takes years for the effects of wage inflation to percolate through the economy too.

 

[Deleted member 88301]

As some have pointed out, robots seldom commit suicide from depression resulting from being treated like slaves. Yes, robots will continue to cost human jobs. But is just the way it's going to be. We have too many humans anyways. Someday, some sort of equilibrium will have take effect. I know that sounds heartless, but I stand by it.

 

[mesyn191]

I dunno, something tells me that this robot revolution will not be as grim as some say, society will re-adjust and jobs will crop up in other sectors.

There is no reason to believe things will play out at all like this. Its pure magical thinking.

I also think you're completely misunderstanding just how far automation will go in eliminating jobs. The future of automation will NOT be like the past. The machines can do much much more than past machines could. Including repairing or building more machines. Small teams of a handful of maintenance guys and designers will be all that is needed to maintain thousands or tens of thousands of machines.

Note how the article in the OP mentions they eliminated 90% of staff. That will be typical.

 

[mesyn191]

We have too many humans anyways. Someday, some sort of equilibrium will have take effect. I know that sounds heartless, but I stand by it.

When its you or your family on the chopping block will you still stand by it though?

Its easy to say such things when you think others will be made to suffer and not yourself. Personally the sociopathic lack of empathy in your post strongly suggests to me you're not a man of principals.

 

[Deleted member 88301]

Well, mesyn191, you are incorrect. I certainly don't condone letting people die unnecessarily, or outright killing people. But artificially allowing a couple of billion people to barely survive is a drain on everybody. First, and foremost: Birth control needs to be taught, and made available to every person on the planet. The Catholic Church thinks that HIV/AIDS, and unwanted children, are terrible things, but condoms are worse.

 

[Ducman69]

Current political trends are moving US workers to become the next low wage, unskilled work force. Anti-intellectualism in addition to pitting the middle class against low income population. Look at H1-B visa, they are giving them a raise plus regular inflation increases. It positions the American workforce as low skill low cost vs the rest of the world. The perception in the United States has always been you get what you pay for and the current trends point to us as being the next cheap labor pool.

I disagree, as I see the opposite happening.

The "race to the bottom" is due not just to automation, but globalization where a competitive advantage is afforded those with the lowest corporate taxes, the lowest environmental standards, and the cheapest slave labor. Great for the 1%ers trying to maximize profits, but not great for the American people.

Trade policies are being adjusted to combat this, to promote "fair" trade, with partners that have similar environmental, taxation, and labor laws as ourselves, to stop this trend of promoting the worst of the worst offenders.

Immigration law may also soon be enforced, which can potentially not only solve the bleeding of importation of effectively "slave labor" which imports poverty via non-net tax contributors (that often even send money back to their native countries out of the economy), but deport the approximately 11 million existing illegal aliens as well. This will free up tremendous resources for social services to take care of our citizens and reduce the unskilled labor pool, which drives up wages. As a kid, I used to make bank mowing lawns in my neighborhood for example, which as you can imagine is impossible today.

In addition, if we bring over more manufacturing, or at least stop the bleeding, as has already been done with several major corporations opting to keep or grow operations in the United States, you have a larger job pool. Its the supply and demand of available jobs vs available employee base that primarily drives wages. More jobs + less employable = more competition for employees and higher wages. Less jobs + more employable = less competition for employees and lower wages.

The H1B visa reform is coming, as its ridiculous how many American jobs we outsource, just to make a handful of people richer, while making the nation poorer. Its sad that our entire network department for example was outsourced plus a few visa workers, with huge degradation in quality, just for a little short term reduction in overhead costs... and the real slap in the face was when they were required to train their replacements before being kicked to the curb many after over ten years of faithful quality service.

Now, back to automation, its true that is going to likely happen a lot in the US as we bring manufacturing here, but its still advantageous to have the factories here rather than Mexico or China, as we the taxes go into our pool, not theirs, we have control over pollution controls (after all, we share the same planet so outsourcing mercury dumping at the border of Texas in Mexico isn't exactly in our self-interest), and at least its some jobs to service those plants and the supporting industries and infrastructure (roads/ports/power/etc).

Its American tech industry workers that will see the greatest benefit though, as we may finally slow the outsourcing trend that has seen so many of our jobs go to India, Columbia, Indonesia, etc.

 

[Deleted member 88301]

Peace, folks. This thread is about robots. I never meant to sway it into any other direction. I spoke my mind about something that I do think is somewhat related, but I never meant to offend anybody.