Eye-strain with new monitor - how did you deal with it?

[euskalzabe]

So, here's an unexpected update: in the past few months, I've been getting insane eye-strain, to the point that it's been making it hard to work home. I switched to an LG 29WK600 back in October 2018 (and I really liked it too), but I soon started to get dramatically worse discomfort. I don't think the LG uses PWM, but I can't confirm this either. Could it be that something in my eyes is too sensitive to the LG's lamp? I tried everything: lower/higher brightness, environmental light, and a long etc. but nothing made it better. Maybe IPS's limited 1000:1 contrast was messing with me after years of being used to 5000:1 VA panels?

I finally gave up today and switched back to my 40" 4K Samsung KU6290 TV and I "think" I'm already feeling better (it's been less than an hour, so who knows... the real test will be after a couple days to weeks). My eyes seem a bit more relaxed though, that's for sure. It's hard to explain but I feel less "tension" in my head/eyeballs. There's a significant change now that I've stopped using the LG, I just couldn't handle it anymore, I felt like I was going to go blind in a few years at this rate.

I'm curious to hear opinions and similar cases from [H] users, as I know many of you have had similar problems changing monitors.

Here's the LG:


And back to the Samsung:

 

[ZeqOBpf6]

Tension to me suggests one of two things, either the brightness is too high, even something like f.lux might help a lot with this

My other thought is you're squinting because things are too small. Good luck, at least you have a working solution in the meantime.

 

[aeliusg]

With the the LG you lost a significant amount of viewable area and workspace due to the smaller size and lower resolution despite the wider aspect ratio. You even lost a bit of PPI going down to the smaller monitor which is worse. Going from a large to small screen the uncomfortable feeling it engenders can only be described as claustrophobia as your eyes strain to see beyond your newly narrowed field of vision.

It can only really be remedied by the smaller screen having some qualities that the larger would not possess such as a drastically higher pixel density or greater color reproduction and contrast, but your new LG is objectively worse in the first category and arguably inferior in the last.

I don't see any great benefit to keeping your ultrawide when it is only empty space you are saving above and on either side anyway. I can attest to this having gone from a large 4K display to progressively smaller monitors that are way faster and have some better features but still feel like tiny viewports compared to the panoramic visage of a 4K TV, but if you were already used to using a large format display it will be the same.

 

[Archaea]

Turn the brightness way down!
Check the refresh rate make sure it’s not doing something inexpected like 30Hz!?!
Fiddle with contrast?
Put more natural colored light sources in the room.

 

[XoR_]

To confirm existence of PWM flickering you can just wave your hand in front of monitor or use phone camera or even simpler: move windows around and PWM flickering will show few images rather than one more blurry smudge. Or you can use this site https://www.testufo.com/blurtrail

Lower contrast ratio definitely have nothing to do with eye-strain. Besides 1000:1 is pretty high contrast ratio and with any ambient light will produce inky blacks.

PWM flickering is known to cause eye strain in some people. Not only flicker is worrying but also PWM controlled W-LEDs have slight delay between blue LED and yellow phosphor lighting up and fading down.

Funnily enough my HP LP2480zx uses extreme levels of PWM for its RGB-LED backlight and despite it is by far most pleasant and relaxing display to watch. My first impression of panel used in it was that it actually removes eye strain (and I used it next to CRT which was heavy on eyes...) and it is healthy to gaze at it. Maybe because of it I have such good eye sight which improved over last few years

There are other factors and one which I am personally really sensitive to is: backlight light spectrum.
Does this look healthy to you:

I need to use my W-LED Acer at much lower brightness level than HP because it just feel unpleasant to look at and this monitor have PWM-free backlight so should be worse. It have pretty decent LEDs with neutral 6500K temperature and believe me saw worse offenders when it comes to light attacking you from them and which I would throw brick at rather than use them.

Like if there was not enough things to worry about monitor purchase you need (or at the very least should - though if you are sensitive I would stick with "need"...) now to also consider light spectrum... life...

BTW. When it comes to panel type IPS should be by all means better for eyes than VA panel due to latter strange viewing angle effects.

 

[euskalzabe]

Tension to me suggests one of two things, either the brightness is too high... My other thought is you're squinting because things are too small.

Turn the brightness way down!
Check the refresh rate make sure it’s not doing something inexpected like 30Hz!?!
Fiddle with contrast?
Put more natural colored light sources in the room.

I've been using the monitor at %10 brightness because anything else would burn my retinas off. I'm surrounded by giant windows with natural light, I have bias lighting behind the screen, and I've even turned all the lights on. Nothing would help, even messing with contrast and other parameters. Framerate was 75hz. I've done all the things you "should" do to fix eye-strain, which is why I was so puzzled nothing was working!

With the the LG you lost a significant amount of viewable area and workspace due to the smaller size and lower resolution despite the wider aspect ratio. You even lost a bit of PPI going down to the smaller monitor which is worse. Going from a large to small screen the uncomfortable feeling it engenders can only be described as claustrophobia as your eyes strain to see beyond your newly narrowed field of vision.

It can only really be remedied by the smaller screen having some qualities that the larger would not possess such as a drastically higher pixel density or greater color reproduction and contrast, but your new LG is objectively worse in the first category and arguably inferior in the last.

I don't see any great benefit to keeping your ultrawide when it is only empty space you are saving above and on either side anyway. I can attest to this having gone from a large 4K display to progressively smaller monitors that are way faster and have some better features but still feel like tiny viewports compared to the panoramic visage of a 4K TV, but if you were already used to using a large format display it will be the same.

The fact that things are way smaller could definitely be a factor, although I usually zoom in a LOT and make Chrome take the whole 21:9 space. But yeah, this theory might have some legs. I wanted the 75hz and freesync, but it just isn't worth it if my eyes are going to hurt most of the time.

To confirm existence of PWM flickering you can just wave your hand in front of monitor or use phone camera...
PWM flickering is known to cause eye strain in some people. Not only flicker is worrying but also PWM controlled W-LEDs have slight delay between blue LED and yellow phosphor lighting up and fading down.

There are other factors and one which I am personally really sensitive to is: backlight light spectrum.

I've recorded video of the display with my phone and it looks fine, it doesn't seem like PWM is involved. Which brings me to the other theory: backlight light spectrum. This is the only thing I can think of, that for some reason whatever backlight is used here I'm sensitive to, and it destroys my eyes. If it's not that, or the lack of definition vs 4K, I have no idea why I've experienced eye-strain. I can assure you though, with all my older monitors I had eye-strain to more or less degree - it ONLY stopped once I bought that Samsung 4K TV. That's what leads me to believe this has to do with either the backlight or the definition of text. I do a lot of reading for work, since I'm a university professor and I spend my days doing research and grading stuff for my classes (I have 0 issue with my Surface laptop, which again, has a pretty high DPI screen).

 

[cybereality]

Have you considered getting computer glasses?

https://www.newegg.com/Computer-Glasses/SubCategory/ID-774?Tid=160875

Never tried them but I would be interested to know if they help.

 

[Nenu]

It could be as simple as the smaller screens text is too small.
And/or you were sitting a bit further away from the larger screen making it easier on the eyes.

 

[euskalzabe]

Have you considered getting computer glasses?

I did try them before f.lux and windows 10's night mode existed. They worked OK, but more to let me get sleepy at night than eye discomfort. Then again I was young then, so that would probably also have an effect. They did not help much with the eye-strain I was getting with the LG.

It could be as simple as the smaller screens text is too small.
And/or you were sitting a bit further away from the larger screen making it easier on the eyes.

I too am starting to think this may have been it. It just feels incredibly obnoxious to say "Yeah, I can't use anything smaller than a 40" 4K monitor" (with a #middleclassproblems after it ). It does make sense that after being getting used to that for 2+ years, my eyes are now saying NOPE to making the effort to look at a smaller 1080p monitor.

 

[cybereality]

Do you wear prescription glasses and, if not, are you sure you don't need them?

 

[Krispy Kritter]

I noticed a difference when I switched from my 24" 1080P dual monitor setup to my 27" 1440P setup. It never occurred to me prior to switching that the increased resolution would make everything smaller. I had to change my monitor/seating location a bit to compensate.

 

[euskalzabe]

Do you wear prescription glasses and, if not, are you sure you don't need them?

I do use prescription glasses, for the past 20 years. My prescription is correct though, so that's not an issue that should create eye-strain.

I noticed a difference when I switched from my 24" 1080P dual monitor setup to my 27" 1440P setup. It never occurred to me prior to switching that the increased resolution would make everything smaller. I had to change my monitor/seating location a bit to compensate.

Yeah, the 1080p screen I used at 100% scaling. The 4K one I use at %200, and at 40" the text is big enough for most situations.

 

[euskalzabe]

Well, the plot thickens. For the past 2 days, eye-strain started somewhat-OK and it got back to being bad despite the change to the TV. This indicates that the problem is in neither of the displays, maybe my eyes have gotten worse and my current glasses prescription is no longer good, which can cause eye-strain. Looking forward to my ophthalmologist appointment in May, can't come soon enough. I'm considering getting Pixel glasses, which are designed for people who spend too many hours on computers.

 

[NoOther]

Well, the plot thickens. For the past 2 days, eye-strain started somewhat-OK and it got back to being bad despite the change to the TV. This indicates that the problem is in neither of the displays, maybe my eyes have gotten worse and my current glasses prescription is no longer good, which can cause eye-strain. Looking forward to my ophthalmologist appointment in May, can't come soon enough. I'm considering getting Pixel glasses, which are designed for people who spend too many hours on computers.

A few things to consider regarding eye strain.

The three greatest factors that I have found that affect eye-strain are:

1) Water. Dehydration can greatly affect the lubrication of your eyes and is a leading cause of eye strain and eye problems in general.

2) Rest. This is a 2 parter.

-Not getting enough sleep and resting the eyes can also lead to dehydration, muscle soreness and tension, not just in the eyes, but the entire facial structure which affects the eyes.

-Not getting up walking around and getting away from the TV, allowing your eyes to adjust and blink.

3) Brightness/Color. Brightness isn't the only thing that affects the eyes, the color can also affect it. The combination can make things too vibrant, or too defuse, both of which can cause strain on the eye as it tries to adjust compared to your surroundings.

Resolution can also be a factor. Especially in relation to screen size. When you change from one screen and resolution that is a certain size and you are used to that, to a smaller screen with the same resolution where everything will be smaller/tighter, your eyes are going to need time to adjust. Same going the other way. When your eyes are constantly used to a certain norm, changing that norm can cause some distress as they are relearning how to focus on the new content.

Anyway, this is from my experience, research, and discussions with my eye doctor. That was all back in 2000, and not much has changed since. I had to get reading glasses and make lots of adjustments to my monitors back then. After taking his advice and modifying my water intake, rest schedule, and breaks, I have not needed reading glasses since and the eye strain has basically gone away completely.

Now, I will say with my newer OLED monitor, I will get some eyestrain, but mainly I get fatigue and fuzziness in my vision when I sit in front of it too long, especially with no breaks. But it is pretty bright and very close.

 

[cybereality]

For the price of the Pixel Glasses, I would give them a shot. You never know, they might actually work.

 

[ZeqOBpf6]

Definitely let us know about those Pixel glasses. There are enough buzzwords crammed in to every sentence to make an infomercial writer roll his eyes, and they don't explain *how* they're blocking all this blue light without an orange tint, but it'd be great if they worked out.

Clear Gunnars, essentially.

Still, seems like Flux accomplishes this via software for free. I don't really wear my glasses at my PC anymore. 20/20 vision is great for driving, but at the desk it's just way more than needed. GL

 

[XoR_]

Definitely let us know about those Pixel glasses. There are enough buzzwords crammed in to every sentence to make an infomercial writer roll his eyes, and they don't explain *how* they're blocking all this blue light without an orange tint, but it'd be great if they worked out.

These glasses seems to be low pass filter to block UVA light and maybe even some parts of visible blue light.

Still, seems like Flux accomplishes this via software for free. I don't really wear my glasses at my PC anymore. 20/20 vision is great for driving, but at the desk it's just way more than needed. GL

Reducing blue color in software can only make image yellow. Less high energy photons will hit eyes but they will still do it.
It can be somewhat helpful but if monitor is really bad it is better to replace it for something with better light spectrum or get computer glasses.

Of course it might be a good idea to lower monitor temperature in the evening and even more so at night to avoid excess blue light interfering with circadian rhythm and program like f.lux can be helpful to achieve this.

 

[euskalzabe]

For reference, this is how I'm using my computer today and it's kind of OK with my eyes:



And yes, my screen is VERY yellow, I have night-mode on pretty strongly. I'm most likely going to get those Pixel glasses to try them, so I'll certainly let you all know in this thread when that happens in a couple months.

A few things to consider regarding eye strain.

Wow, thank you for all those tips. Some of them I knew, and I'm trying my best to find the sweet spot. It's just that this started happening a few months ago, out of the blue. I don't use my computer more often than I did, so it must have to do with either age or my glass prescription being outdated. I'm currently reminding myself to keep drinking water, hopefully that helps too.

 

[NoOther]

Wow, thank you for all those tips. Some of them I knew, and I'm trying my best to find the sweet spot. It's just that this started happening a few months ago, out of the blue. I don't use my computer more often than I did, so it must have to do with either age or my glass prescription being outdated. I'm currently reminding myself to keep drinking water, hopefully that helps too.

Sometimes a simple change in diet/exercise/rest schedule can affect your eyesight. You have muscles that control your eye, so not getting the proper nutrition/rest/hydration can affect their performance as well. That was the main thing that affect my eyesight and was definitely not something I had thought of before. In my case it was changing from working days to working overnights that greatly affected my eyesight. My routine changed and my sleep schedule changed, it changed the amount of sunlight I was getting every day, several other things. The main factor though for me was the water intake. I was drinking far more coffee and caffeine to get through the night and not enough just plain water.

 

[Nenu]

A strange question, do you grind or clench your teeth at night? (this is called bruxism)
The same actions when you sleep can also happen with your eyes, making them feel tired/sore/achy or will tire more easily during the day.
If you have bruxism its advisable to get it looked at asap, the side effects can turn ugly.

 

[euskalzabe]

Huh. I do not grind/clench my teeth at night. It's an interesting connection to make, however. Thanks for pointing that out.

 

[admiralperpetual]

To confirm existence of PWM flickering you can just wave your hand in front of monitor or use phone camera or even simpler: move windows around and PWM flickering will show few images rather than one more blurry smudge. Or you can use this site https://www.testufo.com/blurtrail

Lower contrast ratio definitely have nothing to do with eye-strain. Besides 1000:1 is pretty high contrast ratio and with any ambient light will produce inky blacks.

PWM flickering is known to cause eye strain in some people. Not only flicker is worrying but also PWM controlled W-LEDs have slight delay between blue LED and yellow phosphor lighting up and fading down.

Funnily enough my HP LP2480zx uses extreme levels of PWM for its RGB-LED backlight and despite it is by far most pleasant and relaxing display to watch. My first impression of panel used in it was that it actually removes eye strain (and I used it next to CRT which was heavy on eyes...) and it is healthy to gaze at it. Maybe because of it I have such good eye sight which improved over last few years

There are other factors and one which I am personally really sensitive to is: backlight light spectrum.
Does this look healthy to you:
View attachment 147939

I need to use my W-LED Acer at much lower brightness level than HP because it just feel unpleasant to look at and this monitor have PWM-free backlight so should be worse. It have pretty decent LEDs with neutral 6500K temperature and believe me saw worse offenders when it comes to light attacking you from them and which I would throw brick at rather than use them.

Like if there was not enough things to worry about monitor purchase you need (or at the very least should - though if you are sensitive I would stick with "need"...) now to also consider light spectrum... life...

BTW. When it comes to panel type IPS should be by all means better for eyes than VA panel due to latter strange viewing angle effects.

woah, i wonder if that's what is happening with my old Asus monitor.. i can sometimes see flickering (to the eye, I don't see it with my camera or anything) - i thought maybe it was the crappy power in my old ass apartment tho.. seeing as I usually use my TV it's not a deal breaker - tho when I was playing tons of RTS on the monitor I would get headaches.

 

[euskalzabe]

Trying something new today... it occurred to me that maybe the side-windows have lots of light but the middle wall where I have the computer doesn't, and maybe that's straining my eyes. So I moved my whole desk a few feet to the left. I've never placed a computer in front of a window before, but this could make the lighting a lot more uniform.

We'll see how this goes.

 

[cybereality]

Good idea. Hope it helps.

 

[XoR_]

Wow, thank you for all those tips. Some of them I knew, and I'm trying my best to find the sweet spot. It's just that this started happening a few months ago, out of the blue. I don't use my computer more often than I did, so it must have to do with either age or my glass prescription being outdated. I'm currently reminding myself to keep drinking water, hopefully that helps too.

LOL
Also: what is AG coating of your monitor and how does it compares to old monitor/tv?
Some people seems to be more sensitive to this, either to very strong AG coating that makes image grainy or to glossy as glare can tire eyes a lot.

Personally I like matte displays.
Some older IPS screens were definitely overdoing it. On Dell U2410 I it looked like looking at very low quality grainy paper rather than normal matte LCD monitor and it caused strange feeling in my brain. Not strain, just strange feeling.
Maybe coating is bad on this monitor?

ps. This yellow screen looks like definitely overdoing it.
I wouldn't really suggest going warmer than 3400K

 

[deviant]

When I read posts of people complaining about eye strain from LED backlit displays, most of the answers that follow are: get eye drops, take breaks, check your eyes and/or get a pair of glasses, use f.lux or get a monitor with low blue light. I literally wonder what makes people believe flux is going to change the spectrum of light coming from W-LEDs (which are blue) and phosphorus. Same thing with RGB presets or low blue light monitors. Blue light causes greater eyestrain and fatigue than other colors. It is harder for the eye to focus and causes greater glare. Our eyes cannot focus blue sharply. We actually see a distracting halo around bright blue lights. It's well recognized that blue light is not as sharply focused on the retina as the longer wavelengths. It tends to be focused in front of the retina, so it's a little out of focus. The various wavelengths of light focus differently because they refract at slightly different angles as they pass through the lens of the eye – an effect known as chromatic aberration. Although our retinas simply don't handle blue very well, nobody told the rest of the eye that. If blue is the strongest color available and we want to see fine detail, then we strain our eye muscles and squint trying to pull the blue into shaper focus. Try to do this for too long and you'll probably develop a nauseating headache. This won't happen in a normally lit scene, because the other colors provide the sharp detail we naturally desire.

 

[Comixbooks]

The monitor is probably too big forcing your eyes to stare plus they pull your eyes in every direction even though you might be able to see more on the screen the back of your eyes don't care. It's probably nothing to do with the surface of your eyes it's the back of your eyes the muscles that is the problem. LED lights are garbage I can't use a monitor over 27" and I'm on a 24" currently. I wish there was a CRT alternative out ther but LED LCDS became the eyestrain mainstrem. WIndows has Night Light feature but found out going from it on and off just bothers me big time.

 

[partikl]

Trying something new today... it occurred to me that maybe the side-windows have lots of light but the middle wall where I have the computer doesn't, and maybe that's straining my eyes. So I moved my whole desk a few feet to the left. I've never placed a computer in front of a window before, but this could make the lighting a lot more uniform.

We'll see how this goes.

View attachment 149069

I might give that a try myself. Moving my desk in front of a window wouldn't be the best thing for my room layout, but if it helps it might be worth it. My desk is currently between two windows that are about 10 feet apart. I keep the curtains open in the day, and it sure helps having that natural light coming in from the sides without any glare on the screen.

On the issue of monitors, I have had the worst eye fatigue so far with IPS displays for both computers and phones. TN has been better for my eyes than IPS, even though the colors and viewing angles are horrible. And I'm just venturing into VA. I currently have a VA monitor here, and I should have a 4k VA here by next weekend. The current one just isn't sharp enough for my eyes for working with text (32" 2560x1440), although all other uses seem fine (mostly watching video and gaming).

 

[Necere]

I literally wonder what makes people believe flux is going to change the spectrum of light coming from W-LEDs (which are blue) and phosphorus.

It clearly makes the display look less blue, and if it looks less blue, there must be less blue light, right?*

*Assuming the overall light output is roughly the same.

 

[partikl]

It clearly makes the display look less blue, and if it looks less blue, there must be less blue light, right?*

*Assuming the overall light output is roughly the same.

What I notice when I turn on one of these low blue light apps is that I can practically make the screen look yellow, but if I get away from the screen for a while, especially spending some time outdoors in the sun, when I come back to it I see the blue tint is still there.

Using one of these apps to warm a W-LED display is somewhat helpful, but it isn't a proper solution to the problem. I think it falls somewhere between masking the problem and helping with the problem.

 

[partikl]

So, here's an unexpected update: in the past few months, I've been getting insane eye-strain, to the point that it's been making it hard to work home. I switched to an LG 29WK600 back in October 2018 (and I really liked it too), but I soon started to get dramatically worse discomfort. I don't think the LG uses PWM, but I can't confirm this either. Could it be that something in my eyes is too sensitive to the LG's lamp? I tried everything: lower/higher brightness, environmental light, and a long etc. but nothing made it better. Maybe IPS's limited 1000:1 contrast was messing with me after years of being used to 5000:1 VA panels?

This sounds exactly like my experience with a Dell IPS monitor (U2515H) that I still have sitting here unused. After getting a VA I tried swapping the IPS back in for a day, but my eyes can't handle the backlight on that thing. I think VA is helpful for reducing eye fatigue. I am still getting some fatigue with a VA, but it isn't nearly as bad as with IPS. I'm hoping that a 4k VA will be even better, having a higher PPI. I guess I'll see how it goes.

 

[XoR_]

Maybe you guys just need to have:
- have better diet
- see more sunlight - without using sunglasses!
- stop trying to see letters more clearly than what you need to see to recognize letters

Blue light in excess is unhealthy and might make going to sleep harder but normal 100-150cd/m2 monitor is hardly an excess.
In fact monitors do not produce enough light for eyes to stay healthy.

I think VA is helpful for reducing eye fatigue. I am still getting some fatigue with a VA, but it isn't nearly as bad as with IPS.

To formulate this conclusion you made tests with how many monitors exactly?
VA false stereoscopic effects definitely sound like being good for reducing eye fatigue...

 

[euskalzabe]

When I read posts of people complaining about eye strain from LED backlit displays, most of the answers that follow are: get eye drops, take breaks, check your eyes and/or get a pair of glasses, use f.lux or get a monitor with low blue light. I literally wonder what makes people believe flux is going to change the spectrum of light coming from W-LEDs (which are blue) and phosphorus. Same thing with RGB presets or low blue light monitors.

I don't think anyone with a half brain thinks the spectrum coming from the WLED changes because of yellow tints. It does, however, warm up the whole light that goes into your eyes, not making it full strength blue - you are neutralizing some part of that wavelength, not eliminating it completely. Taking breaks or getting eye drops are aids, not solutions. And getting new glasses can very well be necessary if the problem isn't the blue light, but outdated prescription that also forces your eye muscles to work harder to focus on finer detail.

I've gone back to the 40" TV monitor and I'm doing better. Text is way larger, which allows my eyes to relax some more. I use the yellow tint function in Win10 pretty much 24/7, and I'm seeing noticeable improvements - though not complete solution. I'm using some eye-drops on the worse days, since I can't stop using the computer as I need it for work. Also looking into blue-blocking glasses like these.

I've noticed enough improvement that I've decided to sell the LG 29WK600 on eBay, since I'm more comfortable with the Samsung TV and I have too many displays laying around anyway

So, not full solutions, but everything doesn't affect everyone equally. A collection of small little fixes can go great lengths to fixing a problem, as I've found out in the past few weeks.

This sounds exactly like my experience with a Dell IPS monitor (U2515H) that I still have sitting here unused. After getting a VA I tried swapping the IPS back in for a day, but my eyes can't handle the backlight on that thing. I think VA is helpful for reducing eye fatigue. I am still getting some fatigue with a VA, but it isn't nearly as bad as with IPS. I'm hoping that a 4k VA will be even better, having a higher PPI. I guess I'll see how it goes.

I suspect it could very well be the smaller contrast ratio that is messing with your and my eyes. It is widely accepted that most of the surface of our eyes prefers contrast detection, while the center goes for detail and color accuracy. It would make sense to think that the lesser the contrast, the harder your eye has to work to focus. That, plus as deviant said, blue wavelengths disperse faster than others and look blurrier to our eyes, requiring even more effort to focus on details.

 

[partikl]

Maybe you guys just need to have:
- have better diet
- see more sunlight - without using sunglasses!
- stop trying to see letters more clearly than what you need to see to recognize letters

Blue light in excess is unhealthy and might make going to sleep harder but normal 100-150cd/m2 monitor is hardly an excess.
In fact monitors do not produce enough light for eyes to stay healthy.


To formulate this conclusion you made tests with how many monitors exactly?
VA false stereoscopic effects definitely sound like being good for reducing eye fatigue...

Where do you get the idea that we need: better diet, see more sunlight, stop trying to see letters more clearly? That all sounds presumptuous.

I use multiple displays every day right up until the time I go to sleep, and I fall out like a rock. So I don't put much weight into expert opinions and what I'm supposed to think over what I observe for myself.

There is no conclusion here, only observations. You are presuming a conclusion. I have and use (and have used) many IPS displays between home and work. And what I notice in comparison to my current VA display is that my eyes get fatigued faster with IPS. I have ditched a number of devices with IPS displays at this point, not just monitors, because of eye fatigue from those devices. For phones, my eyes have been more comfortable with OLED than IPS. For laptops, my eyes have been more comfortable with TN than IPS. For monitors, my eyes have been more comfortable with TN and VA than IPS. And on backlighting, my eyes have been more comfortable with CRT and CCFL than W-LED. And I never once got eye fatigue from either. I did get dry eyes from CRT though.

I also think that IPS is only a factor among multiple factors, the biggest culprit being the light spectrum of W-LED backlighting and the PWM that has gone along with W-LED until more recent years. AND OLED can be nearly as bad in that respect (PWM).

 

[euskalzabe]

what I notice in comparison to my current VA display is that my eyes get fatigued faster with IPS. I have ditched a number of devices with IPS displays at this point, not just monitors, because of eye fatigue from those devices. For phones, my eyes have been more comfortable with OLED than IPS.

While XoR_ has somewhat of a point re: diet (mainly, hydration, you need to drink plenty of water so your eyes can keep moist, among other things), I agree with you. VA is regularly far easier for me to look at than IPS. At the same time, the OLED display in my current Moto Z2 Play is a million times easier to look at than any other IPS phone I've used. Again, I think it has to do with contrast, although OLEDs do tend to be warmer than WLED backlights. But yeah, the evidence is there also in my own experience to conclude that the panel technology has a noticeable effect in eye-strain.

In fact, I hadn't used an IPS monitor for years after I got this VA Samsung. I got a great deal on the WK600, and the sole reason I accepted the resolution/size/pixel density downgrade was because I wanted to experience Freesync, and it had a decent 40hz-75hz range. I did enjoy the fluidity, but the eye-strain downsides in my case are nowhere close to being worth the change. Happy to be back at 40" 4K 60hz.

 

[partikl]

The above was still presumptuous. More than anyone I know, I drink more water, eat less crap, and get more sunlight. But I also use computers much more.

 

[euskalzabe]

Of course, it's all a balance. XoR_ has no idea what our diet and lifestyle are like. But the advice, in general, still applies. Although, yes, I get and agree with your point re: presumption. I also drink a truckload of water, but with my ~8-10h of computer screen per day, extreme cases don't fall into regular diet/exercise advice.

 

[partikl]

Of course, it's all a balance. XoR_ has no idea what our diet and lifestyle are like. But the advice, in general, still applies. Although, yes, I get and agree with your point re: presumption. I also drink a truckload of water, but with my ~8-10h of computer screen per day, extreme cases don't fall into regular diet/exercise advice.

For my own work day, I walk an average of 7-8 miles a day, sometimes up to double that in the busier part of the year. Every work day. And that involves using many displays throughout the day. So for my case, it was all presumptuous. But yes, it would still be good advice if it were given as such.

And the majority of my computer use at home is outdoors in the shade with a laptop, where my eyes are the most comfortable. Lots of ambient light without glare.

When I am indoors, during the day I have the curtains open to let in natural light and have the lights on. And I have switched from the terrible light quality of LED bulbs back to halogen bulbs. But at night of course, the light quality still isn't nearly as good as during the day.

Also, I have had my eyes checked and my eyes are fine. And I don't have a general light sensitivity. I rarely wear sunglasses because I don't need to. My eyes are comfortable in natural light. Once in a while when I'm driving toward the sun I will wear sunglasses.

Any way, I have seen this sort of presumption on other forums involving other people, where it will be presumed that anyone who is having eye fatigue issues from computer displays must be doing something wrong...bad eyes, terrible diet, lack of exercise, display set way too bright, and on and on. Where steering away from talking about W-LED backlighting and other issues with modern computer displays is the norm.

 

[XoR_]

Where do you get the idea that we need: better diet, see more sunlight, stop trying to see letters more clearly? That all sounds presumptuous.

I use multiple displays every day right up until the time I go to sleep, and I fall out like a rock. So I don't put much weight into expert opinions and what I'm supposed to think over what I observe for myself.

There is no conclusion here, only observations. You are presuming a conclusion. I have and use (and have used) many IPS displays between home and work. And what I notice in comparison to my current VA display is that my eyes get fatigued faster with IPS. I have ditched a number of devices with IPS displays at this point, not just monitors, because of eye fatigue from those devices. For phones, my eyes have been more comfortable with OLED than IPS. For laptops, my eyes have been more comfortable with TN than IPS. For monitors, my eyes have been more comfortable with TN and VA than IPS. And on backlighting, my eyes have been more comfortable with CRT and CCFL than W-LED. And I never once got eye fatigue from either. I did get dry eyes from CRT though.

I also think that IPS is only a factor among multiple factors, the biggest culprit being the light spectrum of W-LED backlighting and the PWM that has gone along with W-LED until more recent years. AND OLED can be nearly as bad in that respect (PWM).

IPS have better viewing angles than TN or VA so how come it be the worst offender here? It doesn't make any sense.
Except my main TV which is plasma all my screens are IPS and I have never got any eye strain from them.
I used VA in the past and gamma shift effects affecting parts of screen differently for each eye was pretty distracting. Not really causing me eye strain but it didn't feel that healthy either.

You should not get any eye strain from using displays because there is nothing to get strain from. Contrast is great compered to printed text, position is optimal, brightness is optimal, etc.
Amount of light is very low relatively speaking so cones won't get any damage and brightness can be set high enough that there is little effort needed to read text. Enough to see but not enough to stimulate eyes properly into releasing dopamine which is needed for them.

LCD panels unlike printed text are 3d structures and focusing too much on it is dangerous. You should not even try to find sharpest image but keep eyes most relaxed while still being able to read text.
When I do not see something clearly (I use 27" 4K panel from almost meter away and no windows scaling) I never try to bring it into focus "mechanically" but just keep eyes relaxed over part I want to see and wait until I see it clearly. Eyes and brain can do amazing things if you let them. I know however that impulse to focus eyes is too strong and it need to be unlearned. You won't unlearn it and learn to see properly when you deny there is a problem in the way you use eyes.

And I know for a fact there is because if you used them properly, meaning: have them relaxed 100% of the time, you would simply not get eye strain XD

As for diet I mean giving your body all the strange and rare micro-elements. Some things that are not found in most food affect my sight greatly. I mean here both sharpness and color presentation. If eyes are tired and colors are not so vibrant they are pleasurable then it simply means there is some deficiency. Generally when body is well fed all senses should feel pleasurable and relaxed.
From simplest and most available things which will affect sight I can mention protein isolates which body builders take and boron. Proteins usually have a lot of other stuff in them also and generally improve sharpness of sight. Boron improves color rendition and make eyes more relaxed. There are all sorts of things we normally do not have in our diets which affect eyesight and other things like mood, memory, cognition, etc.

BTW. I use computer screens way too much also. Some times more than 12h straightStill, eye strain can only happen when you strain eyes so I do not ever get eye strain. I am more likely to get literally sick from lack of movement than tiring my eyes X_x

 

[partikl]

Again Xor, you are presuming that users of computer displays who are experiencing eye fatigue must be doing something wrong, i.e, trying too hard to focus on text. Reality injection: I read paper just fine with no ill effects and without any conscious effort of focusing my eyes, whether it be a newspaper, paperback, textbook, magazine, whatever. Also e-ink displays are fine. With computer displays that is not the case. And in my experience eye fatigue has been the worst with the combination of IPS/W-LED. I am not making any absolute statements for why that is the case. I am only making an observation that it is the case in my experience.

For whatever reasons (no absolutes being presented here) there is a range of experiences with eye fatigue from computer displays. Some people are not affected at all, where on the other end of the spectrum some users are heavily affected. And people who aren't affected telling people who are affected that it is not to do with computer displays but rather is a lifestyle issue is pretty silly, especially given that someone who isn't affected has no experience and understanding of the problem.

And you are telling us that sharpness should not be a problem, but at the same time you say that you are using a 4k 27" display, which should give sharp text. Why use a 4k 27" display if sharpness is not an issue? From personal experience, sharpness of text definitely is an issue for me. If there is some blur caused by the display, text rendering, whatever, my eyes are affected and I get eye fatigue much faster. For example, I cannot read a pdf book for very long on a low res display in comparison to the same book in paper format.